Stanford Men

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Very pleased with the result. Great fight by the Card against one of the elites of college tennis in their backyard. I thought it would be much less competitive going in but they proved me wrong. Yes the naysayers will say they lost in the R16 but that was expected as they were unseeded and going up against the #3. Well done!
kind of, sort of, but naah. They lost, that's all there's to it. Close doesn't really do it for me. And it was not _that_ close, realistically they had no chance on any of those last three courts.
I do not know what happened to Alexandre last few years. He was a pretty solid #2, now can't win when needed at #4?
Stanford lost his chances during regular season - had they performed better they would not have to play #3 team in the country to advance. So no, no excuses..... In fact that is probably the worst result - it _looks_ like they are just there. While in fact they need some drastic measures.
 
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Sureshot

Rookie
kind of, sort of, but naah. They lost, that's all there's to it. Close doesn't really do it for me. And it was not _that_ close, realistically they had no chance on any of those last three courts.
I do not know what happened to Alexandre last few years. He was a pretty solid #2, now can't win when needed at #4?
Stanford lost his chances during regular season - had they performed better they would not have to play #3 team in the country to advance. So no, no excuses.....
Agree with your assessment their ho-hum regular season put them in this position. There was quite a bit of turnover with Boyer departing and Fery being ill/injured for a bit. But yes, Rotsaert is puzzling. He did have an easy win at Harvard last week but his overall season left a lot to be desired. Anyway, looks like they are back to rebuilding next year with all the seniors leaving and some new recruits coming in. It might be a battle to make it to the big dance. Will have to wait and see
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
Arthur Fery will win the NCAA singles title in couple of weeks and will get a wildcard into Wimbledone. Boldly predicted(y)
he absolutely should - he’ll be well-rested, playing against a bunch of guys physically and emotionally drained from the team event (that Stanford was not able to participate in due to his horrid performance) - anything less than a NCAA singles title and he should quit tennis
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Fery is a long way away from any top 200 ATP player. Not even a competitive match yesterday. The tree did battle though. I was wrong on the score but not the W.
Wrong again. Fery beat many ATP tour players in wimbledon qualies last year. This year he will win the NCAA singles title and will gain direct entry into wimbledon main draw.

 

10Sracquets

New User
Stop being an ass, man. Freakin' troll.
Fery is 5'8" with no weapons and a weak serve. He doesnt have super speed like most shorter players have. His biggest attribute is his tennis IQ, which won't take him far in Pros. Look at his college record since the indoors - not good. Max being was great this year because he worked with Asst Volunteer coach Horacio Matta. Horacio is the former Chilean Davis cup coach. Paul Goldstein was not involved in Max's development this season because Horacio told Paul to back off. Paul should be fired. 3 round of 16 appearances in 9 seasons isn't good, especially with the teams and players he has had. Boyer allegedly left because Paul had poor chemistry with team (which has been observed and reported by outside media too). Geller was a 14.75 UTR when he started at Stanford and now a 13.4. That's not good coaching. Similar for other players too, including Fery. Its a shame for such a storied program. I hear that there are lots of issues with Paul with many players.
 

Sureshot

Rookie
Fery is 5'8" with no weapons and a weak serve. He doesnt have super speed like most shorter players have. His biggest attribute is his tennis IQ, which won't take him far in Pros. Look at his college record since the indoors - not good. Max being was great this year because he worked with Asst Volunteer coach Horacio Matta. Horacio is the former Chilean Davis cup coach. Paul Goldstein was not involved in Max's development this season because Horacio told Paul to back off. Paul should be fired. 3 round of 16 appearances in 9 seasons isn't good, especially with the teams and players he has had. Boyer allegedly left because Paul had poor chemistry with team (which has been observed and reported by outside media too). Geller was a 14.75 UTR when he started at Stanford and now a 13.4. That's not good coaching. Similar for other players too, including Fery. Its a shame for such a storied program. I hear that there are lots of issues with Paul with many players.
This suggests you have inside info or you are an insider. Otherwise it’s merely speculation. If it’s the latter, there’s no point in indulging in mudslinging. Again, if you have inside info and that is the basis for the above, I have no issues. One thing I have noticed is lots of folks spew a lot of vitriol about Stanford tennis and take glee in trashing the program. I would rather that energy be spent more constructively in praising their own programs. If it isn’t clear, I am a fan of Stanford men’s and women’s tennis but I also appreciate other top notch programs like those in the SEC and the like. In other words, let’s have this forum be a cleaner, fun platform rather than pissing on other programs. Yes if you have constructive comments then go ahead but all I ask is that we be civil
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
One thing I have noticed is lots of folks spew a lot of vitriol about Stanford tennis and take glee in trashing the program. I would rather that energy be spent more constructively in praising their own programs. If it isn’t clear, I am a fan of Stanford men’s and women’s tennis but I also appreciate other top notch programs like those in the SEC and the like. In other words, let’s have this forum be a cleaner, fun platform rather than pissing on other programs. Yes if you have constructive comments then go ahead but all I ask is that we be civil
maybe don’t have 90+% of the Stanford posts come from a troll that is such a turd that he’s literally been banned from this forum before then

for every action there’s…

if I were to write literally thousands upon thousands of posts claiming undefeated seasons / national championships / #1 singles players who aren’t actually ranked #1 / future top 10 ATP players / etc, I suspect a few folks would get a kick out of it when UF instead never actually made it to the NCAA quarterfinals
 

Sureshot

Rookie
maybe don’t have 90+% of the Stanford posts come from a troll that is such a turd that he’s literally been banned from this forum before then

for every action there’s…

if I were to write literally thousands upon thousands of posts claiming undefeated seasons / national championships / #1 singles players who aren’t actually ranked #1 / future top 10 ATP players / etc, I suspect a few folks would get a kick out of it when UF instead never actually made it to the NCAA quarterfinals
I don’t have the historical context and btw am not by any means questioning your knowledge of college tennis as I do read and respect your views on many programs and also the
Pros. Nor is this directed solely at you. I just enjoy reading the positive stuff a lot more and really learn from those exchanges.That’s just me. And of course I can’t control what others write.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
And of course I can’t control what others write.
Not saying you can, just saying there’s a (fairly obvious) reason people (certainly including and probably most of all me) enjoy Stanford’s tennis failures - 15 years and endless thousands of ridiculous posts from Feddie / Nostra
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
And re: knowledge - I’ve said before and I’ll say again - any of my posts re Stanford should be taken with a metric ton of salt - they’re not really meant to convey any knowledge, just some perverse glee

I do think they really suffered from those twice a week pickleball practices, however
 

10Sracquets

New User
This suggests you have inside info or you are an insider. Otherwise it’s merely speculation. If it’s the latter, there’s no point in indulging in mudslinging. Again, if you have inside info and that is the basis for the above, I have no issues. One thing I have noticed is lots of folks spew a lot of vitriol about Stanford tennis and take glee in trashing the program. I would rather that energy be spent more constructively in praising their own programs. If it isn’t clear, I am a fan of Stanford men’s and women’s tennis but I also appreciate other top notch programs like those in the SEC and the like. In other words, let’s have this forum be a cleaner, fun platform rather than pissing on other programs. Yes if you have constructive comments then go ahead but all I ask is that we be civil
So sorry that you seem offended. That is certainly not my intention at all. And certainly its not that Im not being civil. I am a Stanford fan as well for sure. That being said, data is data and facts are facts. It is true that the current staff has only taken the team to 3 rd of 16 appearances in 9 seasons. It is true that the team has underachieved, because they have been ranked pre-season as high as 2 with this team - that is certainly a case of not meeting expectations and teams ability. And it is certainly factually that the players have entered Stanford were ranked higher and rated higher, and left ranked lower and rated lower. I will also add another stat. Only one player under the current coaching regime has ranked higher than 500 ATP - Tom Fawcett @ 440atp - compare that to Dick Gould or Whitt who have both had developed their players into highly ranked pros. And Fery has a losing record the later half of the season - that is a fact. So Im sorry, but all this points to underachievement as a coach when you have the high quality of stable of players and dont meet the expectations. I am a huge Stanford tennis fan, but Im also trying to be objective and ask the hard questions. I dont see where there is speculation on my part
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
So sorry that you seem offended. That is certainly not my intention at all. And certainly its not that Im not being civil. I am a Stanford fan as well for sure. That being said, data is data and facts are facts. It is true that the current staff has only taken the team to 3 rd of 16 appearances in 9 seasons. It is true that the team has underachieved, because they have been ranked pre-season as high as 2 with this team - that is certainly a case of not meeting expectations and teams ability. And it is certainly factually that the players have entered Stanford were ranked higher and rated higher, and left ranked lower and rated lower. I will also add another stat. Only one player under the current coaching regime has ranked higher than 500 ATP - Tom Fawcett @ 440atp - compare that to Dick Gould or Whitt who have both had developed their players into highly ranked pros. And Fery has a losing record the later half of the season - that is a fact. So Im sorry, but all this points to underachievement as a coach when you have the high quality of stable of players and dont meet the expectations. I am a huge Stanford tennis fan, but Im also trying to be objective and ask the hard questions. I dont see where there is speculation on my part
stanford should ask Benjamin Becker to name his price, if you ask me, which no one in their AD’s office has yet

so should Duke, for that matter
 

Sureshot

Rookie
So sorry that you seem offended. That is certainly not my intention at all. And certainly its not that Im not being civil. I am a Stanford fan as well for sure. That being said, data is data and facts are facts. It is true that the current staff has only taken the team to 3 rd of 16 appearances in 9 seasons. It is true that the team has underachieved, because they have been ranked pre-season as high as 2 with this team - that is certainly a case of not meeting expectations and teams ability. And it is certainly factually that the players have entered Stanford were ranked higher and rated higher, and left ranked lower and rated lower. I will also add another stat. Only one player under the current coaching regime has ranked higher than 500 ATP - Tom Fawcett @ 440atp - compare that to Dick Gould or Whitt who have both had developed their players into highly ranked pros. And Fery has a losing record the later half of the season - that is a fact. So Im sorry, but all this points to underachievement as a coach when you have the high quality of stable of players and dont meet the expectations. I am a huge Stanford tennis fan, but Im also trying to be objective and ask the hard questions. I dont see where there is speculation on my part
Hopefully Basing bucks the trend. But I also think there’s greater parity in college tennis than during the Gould era as other programs have been recruiting studs as well. But there’s probably truth in what you say.
 

10Sracquets

New User
Hopefully Basing bucks the trend. But I also think there’s greater parity in college tennis than during the Gould era as other programs have been recruiting studs as well. But there’s probably truth in what you say.
That would be great - would love to see that. And I only wish Fery the best too. If Fery is serious about his pro career he should leave like Boyer did. Your assessment of greatly parity is probably correct too. But also a lot more high quality foreign players. Ncaa says that almost 70% of all mens D1 scholarships are going top foreigners.
 

yats22

New User
Yes be civil but I for one only came back because Nostradamus said Baylor was too stupid to beat Stanford. Maybe that should have been the quote you grabbed to make your point.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
in related news, tim sah cam onto the stanford campus as a blue chip recruit in 2017

half a decade later, he had gotten so much better that he was almost able to win a set when it mattered at #6 singles against baylor

do you think his parents expected him to be a bad #6 singles player at the end of his career when he happily signed that letter of intent? a very sad story
 

andfor

Legend

Sureshot

Rookie
in related news, tim sah cam onto the stanford campus as a blue chip recruit in 2017

half a decade later, he had gotten so much better that he was almost able to win a set when it mattered at #6 singles against baylor

do you think his parents expected him to be a bad #6 singles player at the end of his career when he happily signed that letter of intent? a very sad story
Probably not but Tim Sah chose to major in computer science at arguably the toughest program in the country. That’s simply not a formula for tennis success. Agree he should have gone to the SEC or Big 12 if he were really interested in developing his game. But it appears his parents didn’t stop him from picking CS, so his tennis development was doomed from the outset
 

OldBear2

New User
I bet Tim Sah will do very well in his professional life with his Stanford degree which does matter.
I watched his last match in person and he fought very hard. He was just a few points short of pulling out the match.
 

roxieap12

Rookie
Probably not but Tim Sah chose to major in computer science at arguably the toughest program in the country. That’s simply not a formula for tennis success. Agree he should have gone to the SEC or Big 12 if he were really interested in developing his game. But it appears his parents didn’t stop him from picking CS, so his tennis development was doomed from the outset
He should be commended for still cracking the starting line-up despite choosing such a rigorous academic major. Stanford gets too many blue chips who seem to have no interest in playing competitive tennis once they get their acceptance letter.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
in related news, tim sah cam onto the stanford campus as a blue chip recruit in 2017

half a decade later, he had gotten so much better that he was almost able to win a set when it mattered at #6 singles against baylor

do you think his parents expected him to be a bad #6 singles player at the end of his career when he happily signed that letter of intent? a very sad story
His mom played tennis at MIT. I am sure she was happy he was able to leverage his tennis to get in a very selective academic school. The fact he earned a BS in Computer Science (AI focus) and may finish his Masters is another plus. Who cares if he only played line 6? Most tennis parents with US males would be thrilled for their sons to crack the lineup of a top 20 university. The ones who are sad are the ones whose sons are upperclassmen and they have only played 2 dual matches their whole career.

Consider how Tim Sah spent his summers-one summer volunteering in Vietnam with other college athletes from different universities, one summer as a software engineering intern, and another as a data science intern. If he wanted to play higher in Stanford lineup, he probably would have had to spend whole summers playing futures. To play 6 at a top 20 tennis school, be a member of a fraternity, succeed in a tough major at one of the toughest tech schools, and have a leadership role in the SAC is quite an accomplishment and a definite draw for companies looking for SWEs that also have social and leadership skills. Would it be worth him giving up some of those other opportunities to play a little higher in the lineup? I dont know Tim Sah personally but he sounds like a disciplined and talented young man with a bright future who hopefully can still play some Cali prize $ tourneys on weekends post grad.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
His mom played tennis at MIT. I am sure she was happy he was able to leverage his tennis to get in a very selective academic school. The fact he earned a BS in Computer Science (AI focus) and may finish his Masters is another plus. Who cares if he only played line 6? Most tennis parents with US males would be thrilled for their sons to crack the lineup of a top 20 university. The ones who are sad are the ones whose sons are upperclassmen and they have only played 2 dual matches their whole career.

Consider how Tim Sah spent his summers-one summer volunteering in Vietnam with other college athletes from different universities, one summer as a software engineering intern, and another as a data science intern. If he wanted to play higher in Stanford lineup, he probably would have had to spend whole summers playing futures. To play 6 at a top 20 tennis school, be a member of a fraternity, succeed in a tough major at one of the toughest tech schools, and have a leadership role in the SAC is quite an accomplishment and a definite draw for companies looking for SWEs that also have social and leadership skills. Would it be worth him giving up some of those other opportunities to play a little higher in the lineup? I dont know Tim Sah personally but he sounds like a disciplined and talented young man with a bright future who hopefully can still play some Cali prize $ tourneys on weekends post grad.
oh man again way more words / way more of a reasoned response than one of my Stanford jabs deserved

but someone has to stand up for Tim, since Goldstein was caught on a hot mic saying it was the least clutch performance from a Stanford senior he’s ever seen - that must have been tough to hear - not the kind of leadership you want from a head coach
 
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jcgatennismom

Professional

Fery almost beat griekspoor last year
Last year is old news. In 2021, Illinois was the highest ranked Big10 school-this year Illinois didnt even make the NCAA round of 64. Last summer Trent Bryde of UGA took a set off Brandon Nakishima after earning a WC into the Atlanta 250 and had a 14+UTR-this spring he was 5-10 at line 4 and has a UTR of 12.81. College players often have to play summers, winter breaks, etc not to lose ground.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
oh man again way more words / way more of a reasoned response than one of my Stanford jabs deserved

you’re aware I frequently commented on Goldstein making his players practice pickleball twice a week this year, right?
Is that really true or a joke? This board needs an occasional reminder of the balancing act of SAs. I know you are a UF fan; I remember when Riffice was a freshmen or soph and knocked off JJ Wolf in individuals at Nona in '19. He was interviewed afterwards and asked how he would celebrate or what he thought about his win. His response was he had not really thought about it as he had to go back to his hotel room and finish a paper that night. Being an SA even in SEC is not a cakewalk.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Last year is old news. In 2021, Illinois was the highest ranked Big10 school-this year Illinois didnt even make the NCAA round of 64. Last summer Trent Bryde of UGA took a set off Brandon Nakishima after earning a WC into the Atlanta 250 and had a 14+UTR-this spring he was 5-10 at line 4 and has a UTR of 12.81. College players often have to play summers, winter breaks, etc not to lose ground.
You will be changing your tune when Fery wins the NCAA title
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
every Tuesday and Thursday was pickleball training this year
I could see 10 min of mini tennis with actual tennis racquets but pickleball?!!! At Kzoo Nats 2015 when Fritz, Opelka, Mmoh, Kozlov, Tiafoe, Paul played, there was a mini tennis court popular with all the guys. My son and friends were on the mini court, and one of those guys asked to hit in with them. That year Fritz lost in straights to Kozlov in SFs; junior tennis is no predictor of pro success.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
I could see 10 min of mini tennis with actual tennis racquets but pickleball?!!!
yeah, you’re not the only one that found it to be a bit much - Boyer showed up with a tennis racquet one Tuesday before practice to hit a bucket of serves, and Goldstein suspended him for the following match - said he wasn’t taking pickleball training seriously enough if he was willing to wear out his shoulder with serves beforehand

I’m not saying it’s the only reason Boyer left, but I’m also not not saying that
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
This pickleball thing just blew my mind. Surely this is an unsubstantiated rumor...
trust me, I couldn’t believe it either at first, but when several program insiders all confirm the same thing then a player with pro aspirations quits the team in a rage mid-season…

you do the math
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
yeah, you’re not the only one that found it to be a bit much - Boyer showed up with a tennis racquet one Tuesday before practice to hit a bucket of serves, and Goldstein suspended him for the following match - said he wasn’t taking pickleball training seriously enough if he was willing to wear out his shoulder with serves beforehand

I’m not saying it’s the only reason Boyer left, but I’m also not not saying that
Mike, I know your source for the Boyer suspension story, and you know this was supposed to be confidential information and not to be disseminated on a public message board. Just stop.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Is that really true or a joke? This board needs an occasional reminder of the balancing act of SAs. I know you are a UF fan; I remember when Riffice was a freshmen or soph and knocked off JJ Wolf in individuals at Nona in '19. He was interviewed afterwards and asked how he would celebrate or what he thought about his win. His response was he had not really thought about it as he had to go back to his hotel room and finish a paper that night. Being an SA even in SEC is not a cakewalk.
Seriously? The same SEC conference that Aaron Hernandez and Percy Harvin (both UF alum) attended.
 
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