Stanford Men

We seem to rehash this same topic again and again at the end of a Stanford season.

I am talking about this season. There’s no disconnect in their performance relative to their 19th rank going into the postseason. They overcame 11th ranked Oklahoma on their home courts and then lost to 6th ranked Wake. They outperformed relative to their ranking. And I am happy with that.
 
Sureshot said:
We seem to rehash this same topic again and again at the end of a Stanford season.

I am talking about this season. There’s no disconnect in their performance relative to their 19th rank going into the postseason. They overcame 11th ranked Oklahoma on their home courts and then lost to 6th ranked Wake. They outperformed relative to their ranking. And I am happy with that.
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Few argue with that

They bring in classes that should make final fours at the minimum or win championships, then that army of blue chips become collegians that make up a team that loses to San Diego and Arizona and such, and then they perform about as their non-top-10 ranking would suggest in the postseason

If Stanford wants a coach that can consistently bring in top 5 recruiting classes then NEVER make the final 8, they have their man, sign him for the next 30 years

but if one believes you don't need Goldstein to bring in top 5 classes (program with the best history in college tennis, one of the top universities in the world, best weather among similar academic institutions - it's an unbelievably easy sell) then maybe it might be time to bring in someone who turns this army of blue chips into an army of top 50 college players - but believe me, I hope that never happens, it'd be tough dealing with Feddie if they became a perennial juggernaut again
 
Look that’s a legit beef but these guys can compete but maybe not in college tennis (Basavareddy aside). Kang recently beat Quinn in straight sets at a 25k. Banerjee made the semis of that same tournament before retiring injured. Basavareddy has finaled in a Challenger. So they are developing while at Stanford but just not producing where it counts and that’s on the college scene. I don’t know what ails them but their games aren’t going into hibernation once there.
 
My hypothesis is they aren’t great in a team setting. When they play there’s hardly any banter across their courts or even among their home spectators. They are drowned out by their opponents when they play on the road. Now the women seem to thrive despite also being low key so there’s that counterpoint. Sometimes I wish Stanford would recruit more expressive emotional types even if they have to dial back on tennis cred. It’s interesting that last year their leader in the pre match huddle was Gorelik, the grad transfer from Tufts..they had to import that energy!
 
Sureshot said:
My hypothesis is they aren’t great in a team setting. When they play there’s hardly any banter across their courts or even among their home spectators. They are drowned out by their opponents when they play on the road. Now the women seem to thrive despite also being low key so there’s that counterpoint. Sometimes I wish Stanford would recruit more expressive emotional types even if they have to dial back on tennis cred. It’s interesting that last year their leader in the pre match huddle was Gorelik, the grad transfer from Tufts..they had to import that energy!
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^^this. I've said that before - you need to have that player that you love to have on your team , and that you hate was he on the opposite team. You know, someone that can irk the opponent, give a spark, maybe show some borderline gamesmanship behavior.
jmnk said:
[...] That team has been lacking a leader for quite a few years, I think ever since Tom Fawcett graduated. The teams of Fawcett years were not as good on paper - but they had that 'it' factor. Fawcett would never go down easily, Same with Kumar, then you had Paige and Romanowicz that were those kind of slightly annoying players that you love to have to your team and hate to play against. And then a very solid Wilczynski or Goldberg that could go on and on and on - maybe they would not win but there was always hope, and those courts were never lost in 60 minutes. They seemed to have fun, but it kind of felt Fawcett commanded respect and professionalism that rubbed on other players. It kind of changed when they started getting those very, very highly ranked juniors, as if the feeling was they are just going to show up and everyone else will fold. I'm likely romanticizing those past years too much:)
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Sureshot said:
We seem to rehash this same topic again and again at the end of a Stanford season.

I am talking about this season. There’s no disconnect in their performance relative to their 19th rank going into the postseason. They overcame 11th ranked Oklahoma on their home courts and then lost to 6th ranked Wake. They outperformed relative to their ranking. And I am happy with that.
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But I remember correctly, the expectations before this season were high. If you go by team UTR alone, Stanford should have been a top 5 team.

Edit: Looking back at some of the discussion in here a couple of months before the season, it seems you were hoping they could break the round of 16 hoodoo and hopeful for top 8 ranking. But you did not go crazy with any declarations. Took a wait and see approach, which we have now seen. Stanford just put themselves too much behind the 8-ball by waitig until tournament time to crank it up.
 
10Sracquets said:
The mens tennis team is a disaster. Their best and most experienced coach, and the person whom the players trust and like the most (Horacio Matta) will no longer be on the coaching staff, the trainer from last year quit and went to another university because the team was a s-it show. Players are getting injured now even before the season starts because of poor decision making on drills and periodization by Goldstein. Players dont respect him, coaches dont respect him, former recruits think he's not to be trusted, and coaches from other teams around the country think Golstein is a joke and a bizarre person. He has no idea what he's doing developmentally or strategically, and his coaching record speaks for itself. He ruined many players, and outside coaches call Stanford "the players graveyard". Fery and Boyer are the two best players from the Stanford Mens team during Goldsteins coaching tenure (atp ranking wise) and they both left (or having taken significant time off from the team). Unfortunately, those are the facts and not opinions. I greatly wish it were different!
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A similar opinion a few months ago. This season did not seem to change it.
 
Clemson_tennis said:
But I remember correctly, the expectations before this season were high. If you go by team UTR alone, Stanford should have been a top 5 team.

Edit: Looking back at some of the discussion in here a couple of months before the season, it seems you were hoping they could break the round of 16 hoodoo and hopeful for top 8 ranking. But you did not go crazy with any declarations. Took a wait and see approach, which we have now seen. Stanford just put themselves too much behind the 8-ball by waitig until tournament time to crank it up.
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Yes am guilty of holding that optimism at the beginning of every season and then having to recalibrate as reality unfolds. Unfortunately I support some pro teams that force me to do the same.
 
jmnk said:
^^this. I've said that before - you need to have that player that you love to have on your team , and that you hate was he on the opposite team. You know, someone that can irk the opponent, give a spark, maybe show some borderline gamesmanship behavior.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the historical perspective. Hoping we see a return to some of that. Maybe Goldstein will realize that the current recruiting formula ain’t working. But wonder if other constraints are at play. I mean there’s always the trade off between athletic cred and academic cred at a place like Stanford. So if you are not an overachiever as a junior you better have decent academics to clear admissions. Who knows? Just thinking aloud. There’s already movement behind the scenes to cut the ranks of student athletes at selective universities.
 
Sureshot said:
Appreciate the historical perspective. Hoping we see a return to some of that. Maybe Goldstein will realize that the current recruiting formula ain’t working. But wonder if other constraints are at play. I mean there’s always the trade off between athletic cred and academic cred at a place like Stanford. So if you are not an overachiever as a junior you better have decent academics to clear admissions. Who knows? Just thinking aloud. There’s already movement behind the scenes to cut the ranks of student athletes at selective universities.
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The recruiting rankings are what the are - they’re not giving Stanford bonus points in those rankings because admissions might be tougher - they’re recruiting #1 and #2 classes constantly at the end of the day

So, the admissions excuse that has been used for the past two decades for Stanford - doesn’t make a lot of sense
 
My point was if they went after recruits like those at Michigan which is a very good academic school and a top tennis program, it would serve them better. The Michigan kids are loud and pull for each other. They aren’t the bluest of blue chips but they are excellent players nonetheless. Point being Stanford doesn’t have to chase the top junior in the world.
 
Sureshot said:
My point was if they went after recruits like those at Michigan which is a very good academic school and a top tennis program, it would serve them better. The Michigan kids are loud and pull for each other. They aren’t the bluest of blue chips but they are excellent players nonetheless. Point being Stanford doesn’t have to chase the top junior in the world.
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Or, they could just develop some of the world’s top juniors they attract (like Axel Geller) instead of him leaving Stanford worse than when he arrived
 
mikej said:
Or, they could just develop some of the world’s top juniors they attract (like Axel Geller) instead of him leaving Stanford worse than when he arrived
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Axel has injury issues. and he's leaving stanford with degree which is 100 X better than any possible pro potential improved ranking
 
mikej said:
Few argue with that

They bring in classes that should make final fours at the minimum or win championships, then that army of blue chips become collegians that make up a team that loses to San Diego and Arizona and such, and then they perform about as their non-top-10 ranking would suggest in the postseason

If Stanford wants a coach that can consistently bring in top 5 recruiting classes then NEVER make the final 8, they have their man, sign him for the next 30 years

but if one believes you don't need Goldstein to bring in top 5 classes (program with the best history in college tennis, one of the top universities in the world, best weather among similar academic institutions - it's an unbelievably easy sell) then maybe it might be time to bring in someone who turns this army of blue chips into an army of top 50 college players - but believe me, I hope that never happens, it'd be tough dealing with Feddie if they became a perennial juggernaut again
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My point is, isn't the goal of any program to win the NCAAs? Goldstein recruits with this stated goal. Yet, he is completely incapable. Conversely, and to someone else's point on this string, why bother recruiting top players and having teams that are consistently ranked top-5 or top-10 in the nation pre-season, and then to lose in the rd of 16, at best! Get rid of Goldstein, hire a more experienced and better coach, and the program will get better immediately
 
Sureshot said:
Look that’s a legit beef but these guys can compete but maybe not in college tennis (Basavareddy aside). Kang recently beat Quinn in straight sets at a 25k. Banerjee made the semis of that same tournament before retiring injured. Basavareddy has finaled in a Challenger. So they are developing while at Stanford but just not producing where it counts and that’s on the college scene. I don’t know what ails them but their games aren’t going into hibernation once there.
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no chance of any player developing their game under Goldstein
 
Sureshot said:
Unfortunately 5&5 loss to Duckworth. But commendable showing. On to the next one. He's gotta keep going, make deep runs.
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i saw the match and Fery was much more bothered by the horrible windy conditions, not sure why ? Duckie did much better controlling the ball and playiing high % shots with his massive topspins shots. Fery looked like he just didn't get a feel for where the lines were due to the wind. Even then 7-5 and 7-5, had chances to win that 2nd set as well. Looks Fery will be top 100 very soon
 
Love this discussion about the team. Great points, many I agree with.
  • Team culture. I've seen other teams with a LOT more energy and passion for each other and their school - during practices and matches. why is this so? could be leadership and/or the type of individuals they recruit. What was the energy like during the Gould era?
  • Recruiting. I have high expectations because the recruiting classes have been impressive. Thus, each season to me feels like they underperform.
  • Coaching. I'm a fan of Coupe as he knows how to connect with players (on and off the team). A player's coach if you will. I'm not sure the same applies to Goldstein. Can't fault him for Fery's departure, but gotta wonder about Geller & Boyer. In his defense, Basavareddy is turning out well.

Love following the matches at Stillwater right now even if the Card didn't make it. Great time of the year. One of my favorite sporting events, more so than any ATP event.
 
Fuzzierballz said:
Love this discussion about the team. Great points, many I agree with.
  • Team culture. I've seen other teams with a LOT more energy and passion for each other and their school - during practices and matches. why is this so? could be leadership and/or the type of individuals they recruit. What was the energy like during the Gould era?
  • Recruiting. I have high expectations because the recruiting classes have been impressive. Thus, each season to me feels like they underperform.
  • Coaching. I'm a fan of Coupe as he knows how to connect with players (on and off the team). A player's coach if you will. I'm not sure the same applies to Goldstein. Can't fault him for Fery's departure, but gotta wonder about Geller & Boyer. In his defense, Basavareddy is turning out well.

Love following the matches at Stillwater right now even if the Card didn't make it. Great time of the year. One of my favorite sporting events, more so than any ATP event.
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I’d throw Banerjee in with Geller & Co. ITF 2 and Jr Wimby champ having a tough time in college tennis.
 
-Nishesh won't win NCAA individuals <---- you are here
-Nishesh won't draw Djoker in the first round of the USO
-Nishesh won't beat Djoker in the first round of the USO
-Nishesh will flop in the next round after upsetting Djoker as per usual
-Nishesh will choke in his first Grand Slam final
-Nishesh won't be able to live up to the expectations of being the youngest USO winner in 2 years
-Nishesh won't have a Rafael Nadal-esque domination of the USO for the next 16 years, ending his career with 14 USO titles
smh, haters will say this timeline is unrealistic.
 
anindit gopalakrishnan said:
-Nishesh won't win NCAA individuals <---- you are here
-Nishesh won't draw Djoker in the first round of the USO
-Nishesh won't beat Djoker in the first round of the USO
-Nishesh will flop in the next round after upsetting Djoker as per usual
-Nishesh will choke in his first Grand Slam final
-Nishesh won't be able to live up to the expectations of being the youngest USO winner in 2 years
-Nishesh won't have a Rafael Nadal-esque domination of the USO for the next 16 years, ending his career with 14 USO titles
smh, haters will say this timeline is unrealistic.
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To be fair, he might win NCAA singles if he cares about it - he’ll be well rested and is as good as any of those guys, esp if it gets hot and it gets tough for guys to play the 2-3 hours of flawless aggressive tennis needed to hit through him

It’s always an odd tourney where there’s differential motivation (US vs international players), differential fresh legs (tired guys from top teams vs the rest), etc

He’s well positioned if you ask me
 
I hate to use the F word but I think he's probably the favorite for the tournament, significantly higher UTR than the field and has been in pretty good form/improving down the stretch. I'd take him in any single match tbh. Only has one loss on the season to Oliver Tarvet on the sandpaper usd courts.

I will say though just as while it may be hard to hit through him in the heat, his style is very taxing unlike the past 2 winners Shelton and Quinn who could end points quickly with huge weapons. Not familiar with previous winners as i didnt follow before then. 6 days of grinding tennis in the heat I don't know if it's feasible for an injury prone player like him.
 
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He's all ready to win the NCAA title, very prepared indeed.

Basavareddy Wins Singles Player of the Year, Six Named All-Pac-12​



Nishesh_Basavareddy_JPL_03102024_00105__2_.jpg
 
anindit gopalakrishnan said:
I hate to use the F word but I think he's probably the favorite for the tournament, significantly higher UTR than the field and has been in pretty good form/improving down the stretch. I'd take him in any single match tbh.

I will say though just as while it may be hard to hit through him in the heat, his style is very taxing unlike the past 2 winners Shelton and Quinn who could end points quickly with huge weapons. Not familiar with previous winners as i didnt follow before then. 6 days of grinding tennis in the heat I don't know if it's feasible for an injury prone player like him.
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I think Sam Riffice won it before Shelton did, and Paul Jubb before that. Jubb is a wiry grinder type, similar build to Nishesh I think.

Edit: As a matter of fact, Jubb upset Borges in the finals, I recall it was hot. Borges is now ranked in the top 50. Jubb has struggled with injuries, guessing he's around 300 or so.
 
anindit gopalakrishnan said:
I hate to use the F word but I think he's probably the favorite for the tournament, significantly higher UTR than the field and has been in pretty good form/improving down the stretch. I'd take him in any single match tbh. Only has one loss on the season to Oliver Tarvet on the sandpaper usd courts.

I will say though just as while it may be hard to hit through him in the heat, his style is very taxing unlike the past 2 winners Shelton and Quinn who could end points quickly with huge weapons. Not familiar with previous winners as i didnt follow before then. 6 days of grinding tennis in the heat I don't know if it's feasible for an injury prone player like him.
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Nishesh is already there on site, and well rested. Noone can stop him.
 
Let's not forget Basavareddy won Fall Nats in SD. Even though it was in better weather conditions, his style prevailed over a bunch of really good players. In addition he almost beat Quinn in the round of 16 at NCAAs last year in a match that was played in Orlando on a hot & humid day before the rains came. We might be underestimating his weather tolerance. The greater risk is he has an off day which can happen to anyone.
 
I really think Nishesh is the best player in college tennis. Got to see him last fall at the Challengers in Tiburon and Fairfield and he looked like he belonged already. His game is a grind though and with his slight frame he hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Would love to see him fully fit against the other top guys
 
scmyers said:
I really think Nishesh is the best player in college tennis. Got to see him last fall at the Challengers in Tiburon and Fairfield and he looked like he belonged already. His game is a grind though and with his slight frame he hasn’t been able to stay healthy. Would love to see him fully fit against the other top guys
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He is better than Fery, Fawcett all the way back to Klahn. The jury’s out on whether he’ll outdo Klahn. If I had to bet I’d say yes.
 
How is it that Benerjee wasn't selected for the individual tournament, this is another injustice for the Card. Benerjee was one of the best players in D1 this year
 
Basavareddy plays Catry of NC State. Potential matchups with Boulais in the second round and one of Tarvet or Colton Smith in the Rd of 16. Tarvet was his only loss in the regular season. Also Banerjee plays the freshman phenom of Texas, Bailly who’s been unbeatable of late. Let’s go Card.
 
Basavareddy making short work of some dude in 1st round. He's looking very strong albeit this ESPN refuses to show any of his match. Tarvet is winning easily on another court and yet that one is center court match for ESPN and Gruskin whos' running the show. and Basavareddy doesn't get any airtime at all. Who is this Gruskin guy ?? Somebody from ESPN needs to replace this guy
 
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Ended up winning in 3. Tbh, he seems a bit inconsistent these days with some odd lapses in matches he should dominate compared to his Fall 2022 run where he was just destroying guys in straights.
 
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