Starcraft 2 players club

dave333:
As for the GSL and match fixing scandals, I can see what you are implying. But I have my doubts things are as shady as you make things out to be.

Anyway, I think we definitely need the inputs of others because clearly we are not communicating very well. I think you are missing what I am saying, and vice versa.

Everything but this, was a repeat of what you've said in the past posts, which I've re-answered twice in the past three posts. So, I'm not even going to go into this circle again, because you haven't refuted my posts yet.

As for the part I did quote, you clearly took no effort into looking into the match fixing scandal, or any other part of the post I asked you to give a slight effort to look into.

I'm not missing what you're saying, because you're not even bothering to read, or try. As I previously stated, go give even the slightest attempt to show me, and for any other person who wants to join us on this conversation, that you have actually read through the post, or given an effort to refute the comments in other posts.
 
I honestly can't tell if you are trolling me at this point. I do not believe you believe your responses are actual answers.

Maybe I'm writing too much.
My most basic argument is that carriers are not worth the cost for what they offer, making them not worth using.

I feel like you've lost sight of the initial discussion, which was whether carriers were really worth getting. Instead you are just trying to point me out as wrong in any possible way.

How have you refuted that? By claiming I don't read? By ignoring my posts and just posting crap? You complained I didn't address PFFs; I just did in the previous post yet you say that it is just a repeat of what I've said before, completely dodging everything. You are most definitely missing what I am saying.

I know what it's like to be wrong on an internet forum, and it can be tough to admit to being wrong. But learning to accept such things is a positive. I would hope your internet attitude is very different from your real life one, which I can believe since the anonymity of the internet lets one be a bit more aggressive than in real life.
 
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I gotta say though....how did Inca get into the finals? XP the ling runby was just fail at so many levels.
 
You know what? No, I blame myself. Maybe I should explain every bit of detail, but here's a hint: The Match Fixing Scandal was not for the GSL, nor even Starcraft 2. The players I mention? Oh boy, you should have looked into them lol. Since I've refuted half of your post that I quoted already, I'll let you figure out the players yourself.

Maybe I'm writing too much.
My most basic argument is that carriers are not worth the cost for what they offer, making them not worth using.

I feel like you've lost sight of the initial discussion, which was whether carriers were really worth getting. Instead you are just trying to point me out as wrong in any possible way.

How have you refuted that? By claiming I don't read? By ignoring my posts and just posting crap? You complained I didn't address PFFs; I just did in the previous post yet you say that it is just a repeat of what I've said before, completely dodging everything. You are most definitely missing what I am saying.

LoL, all those accusations are things that I've made against you, and I've proven it just now. You clearly didn't give even the slightest hint of effort to look up the Match Fixing Scandal, but maybe you didn't read the first part of my post again, so I'll repeat it here -- the Match Fixing Scandal was NOT for the GSL, nor even in the time of Starcraft 2.

I didn't dodge everything, because I've already answered it, and refuted it but then you re-post it. You're the one dragging this conversation into circles.

Also, what's a PFF, do you mean PDD (lol)? Please, since you've used PFF twice now, tell me what the acronym stands for, otherwise this is my face until then:

500x_sc2.jpg
 
Finally done with exams/returning home, but I see that I really didn't miss anything that requires a real response anymore.
 
dave333:
Finally done with exams/returning home, but I see that I really didn't miss anything that requires a real response anymore.

Funny how you were responding every day, even though you've had these supposed exams for quite some time and you were responding even though you said you had these, and that you were studying for them at the time. Now you've returned and still made no progress.

attachment.php

coyfish:
Planetary ****ing fortress

R f**king Cons
 
Wasted a lot of time that you could've been studying for them, and based on all of your posts getting refuted, and failing to come up with anything to defend yourself, I wouldn't be very hopeful of your exam scores either.
 
look, i'm not as good as you guys, obviously (ranked 4 in Diamond ATM) but I'm a toss player, and I have a comment on the carrier thing.

If you have the kind of economy happening that can afford an investment in sufficient carriers to be effective, then why the hell haven't you won already with something else??????

Maybe mass carriers is all the range in Bronze solo but I am afraid I wouldn't know...
 
Timbo's_hopeless_slice:
If you have the kind of economy happening that can afford an investment in sufficient carriers to be effective, then why the hell haven't you won already with something else??????

See, that's what I've been questioning. Dave is all like, "well if you get Carriers herp derp, they're not cost efficient because they take too much time to get" and that's why I brought up the Production Possibilities Frontier (it's PPF dave, not PFF lol and PDD is Point Defense Drone). He's been making it seem like a Protoss player will get nothing but Carriers, but when he compares it to Zerg he's like "well Zerg gets a buttload of everything" so I'm wondering why he only mentions opportunity cost but no PPF and says that Protoss can get other things because his posts have been focusing on a Protoss player getting only Carriers.

Then we went on about "well you can't beat Void Ray + Colossi + Sentries" and I asked "where do you get the Gas for that much stuff, against quote unquote, a 'competent player'?" That went unanswered too...

Then, to check he was reading my posts, I mentioned the Match Fixing Scandal from SC:BW with most of Sparkyz Hite, sAviOr, YellownArc and he was like "well, in the GSL the match fixing scandal was bla bla bla" and I don't know why I read on, because I knew he hadn't even given the slightest effort to look up what the Match Fixing Scandal was because, as I said -- it was from SC:BW and the GSL is SC2. Then, after that he didn't respond for several days and goes "ah finally, done with my exams and no worthy posts to respond to, of course it's not an excuse for myself to hide myself being wrong."

look, i'm not as good as you guys, obviously (ranked 4 in Diamond ATM) but I'm a toss player, and I have a comment on the carrier thing.

That's still a decent rank in my book.
 
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Wasted a lot of time that you could've been studying for them, and based on all of your posts getting refuted, and failing to come up with anything to defend yourself, I wouldn't be very hopeful of your exam scores either.

LOL that just made my day, doubting my grades. I'm your classic overachieving asian+more, don't doubt.

Then we went on about "well you can't beat Void Ray + Colossi + Sentries" and I asked "where do you get the Gas for that much stuff, against quote unquote, a 'competent player'?" That went unanswered too...

Jesus do I have to say things explicitly? You CAN get carriers, you will just die doing so. Whereas Void Rays, Collossi, and Sentries (especially sentries) are on the way of your tech path and will keep you safe. Where do you get the gas for all that? Idk man, void ray collossus with sentry/stalker support was pretty damn common. Still occasionally pops up but zerg aggression has been mostly shutting late game toss down.

If you have the kind of economy happening that can afford an investment in sufficient carriers to be effective, then why the hell haven't you won already with something else??????

This is totally true and is basically part of what I have been saying.. However, you can't just have the economy; you need to be able to stay alive. If you reach the point where you have a big economy and can go carriers, you can simply just make more collossus/upgrades/HTs/void rays whatever without investing in a huge amount of money that doesn't pay off till you have that sufficient amount of carriers. I already said this multiple times.

Instead of devoting a ton of money into carriers that don't pay off, you can just put that money into actual units and just go kill them.

He's been making it seem like a Protoss player will get nothing but Carriers, but when he compares it to Zerg he's like "well Zerg gets a buttload of everything" so I'm wondering why he only mentions opportunity cost but no PPF and says that Protoss can get other things because his posts have been focusing on a Protoss player getting only Carriers.

I already addressed this thing on PPFs and stuff but you completely ignored. Yes I made a typo on PPFs but you got the point (actually no you totally ignored it). Here, I'll copy paste for you

Let's assume Carriers are just as good as Collossi. I already said Carriers could be viable in PvP. So let's look at matchups vs. Terran and Zerg.
In PvT and PvZ, you almost ALWAYS go the Collossi route, if not the templar route. You have to pick one, because otherwise you will die to stimmed bio or roach hydra. You can do a stargate opener for phoenix harass or void ray pushes yes, but you can't actually keep going to carriers because if you did, you would die to stimmed bio. No one in PvZ goes stargate phoenix/voidray harass to carriers; they go stargate into Robo because otherwise a hydra push would straight up kill them. Likewise, people don't go carriers after stargate openers against terran because stimmed MMM will melt them.

So you have to transition to carriers. Herein lies the problem with a PFF. Even if we assume Carriers are as good as Collossi (dubious), the problem with going carriers is that you will likely already have the collossi infrastructure down by the time it is safe to get carriers (because you basically need the collosi to be safe in the midgame). You also likely got ground weapons upgrades as well, and thermal lances. So you've invested a lot into Collossi, you have not invested any into Carriers.

This means that with the PFF, whenever you choose to build Collossi when choosing between Collossi/Carriers, you are actually building Collossi. The infrastructure is down, the upgrades are there, so the all the cost that you put into buying a Collossi turns directly into benefit. However, if you chose to go collossi down, you must put down a stargate, a fleet beacon, and then build a very long to build carrier before you get any benefit. And that benefit is only going to be one carrier. Even if you have a stargate, a fleet beacon+just one carrier+carrier upgrade is 600 gas, and you are only getting the benefit of that one carrier. And the carriers benefit is further reduced because you need air upgrades. Whereas if you went Collossi, you can get three whole collossi and get the entire benefit of all three. If you had that stargate down, you can get 2 void rays and a Collossi for 500 gas. That is another option as well. Is one carrier as good as these options?

This is simply under the assumption that Carriers are actually as good as Collossi. The truth is, Collossi are probably better than carriers against ground, especially once critical mass is reached, where they simply melt everything on the ground. Given that you want critical mass, and Collossi are always sniped by vikings/corruptors specifically, you basically always want/need to be building Collossi to keep your army strong and keep you safe. If instead of building those 2 Collossus you choose to build
1 Collossus+Fleet beacon (instead of 2 collossus)
then
1 carrier+carrier upgrade (instead of 2 collossus)
You only add one collossus when you could've had four, with no direct benefit at all basically. During this time period, it could be very dangerous unless you already had a lead.

This is all simplified, but (I hope) you see the point. Also don't even get into mineral costs either. Even though Toss is usually gas starved, large numbers of carriers facing high, fast DPS like rines/hydras means that the interceptors will be popping all the time, becoming a big mineral drain. Also against BCs (lol @ capital ship fights ever happening), this is an issue.

When we add in unit compositions, which I explained above but you essentially ignored (here I'll copy and paste). You totally didn't address the issues of unit composition either. Of course adding a Carrier to an army is good, but is it better to add another 2 Collossi or a Collossi and 2 voidrays?

Here I am specifically discussing the costs of production of carriers. If you are on 3 base and producing as much as you can to build from robos and gateways and stargates too (I assume you already have a stargate), to build carriers you will have to cut down on building other stuff. And so the question is, are carriers worth it? Check my other posts, I said no

Here's the simplest statement:
Producing carriers means producing less of other stuff. Is producing carriers going to be more beneficial than buliding that other stuff? No.

That's at its most simple okay? SC2 income is basically limited because eventually you have too many workers to have a large enough army. Once you have the income cap, you really have no way to expand your PPF. So every time you choose to make a unit or build a structure, you have to cut down on something else. In the case of carriers, you have to spend a lot on infrastructure and upgrades and the carrier itself just to get a carrier out after a long period of time. Does that single carrier offer much utility? Dubious. You need more, and you can't use the carriers you make till you have a sufficient number or they will get sniped easily by corruptors and vikings. So that's a ton of investment and time on stuff that isn't coming out yet. Yes you can still produce other units, but you will have to produce less of them. And that could be very dangerous. And given that carriers aren't even necessairly better than Collossus/Void rays, as my earlier posts elaborate on, it's pretty much useless.

This discussion on carriers have gone sooo long, I'm pretty sure it's over. What is your conclusion on carriers? You have given none. I barely even know what you are arguing about at this point. I'm trying to say carriers are not worth it, you say I am wrong, but what are you trying to prove right?

If you are trolling, good job. You have me on tilt.
 
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Okay I've decided to make this final statement on carriers. I think it's fairly moderate and accurate.

Carriers are useful in certain situations, but in most normal situations there are better alternatives than going carriers.
 
Carriers and motherships are good for late game if you have excess minerals and gas to support the main fleet. I still think colossus, void rays, templars, archons, stalkers, immortals are better investments. But the beauty of SC 2 is you can win in both conventional and unconventional ways.
 
dave333:
LOL that just made my day, doubting my grades. I'm your classic overachieving asian+more, don't doubt.

Yeah, I can tell. Arrogance and proof came with the package. Oh wait, only one of those did…

Jesus do I have to say things explicitly? You CAN get carriers, you will just die doing so. Whereas Void Rays, Collossi, and Sentries (especially sentries) are on the way of your tech path and will keep you safe. Where do you get the gas for all that? Idk man, void ray collossus with sentry/stalker support was pretty damn common. Still occasionally pops up but zerg aggression has been mostly shutting late game toss down.

You know, several posts ago (if you read it) I mentioned proof from at least 3 games. I still have yet to see that…from, quoting you, “competent players.”

This is totally true and is basically part of what I have been saying.. However, you can't just have the economy; you need to be able to stay alive. If you reach the point where you have a big economy and can go carriers, you can simply just make more collossus/upgrades/HTs/void rays whatever without investing in a huge amount of money that doesn't pay off till you have that sufficient amount of carriers. I already said this multiple times.

No, it hasn’t been any part of what you’ve been saying, and all you’ve been repeating is that Carriers are worthless and that’s why Blizzard kept them in the game unlike units such as the Lurker, and that Carriers are the only possible option.

This statement:
Instead of devoting a ton of money into carriers that don't pay off, you can just put that money into actual units and just go kill them.

and this one:

Here I am specifically discussing the costs of production of carriers. If you are on 3 base and producing as much as you can to build from robos and gateways and stargates too (I assume you already have a stargate), to build carriers you will have to cut down on building other stuff. And so the question is, are carriers worth it? Check my other posts, I said no

contradict this one, yet again:

Using economics to look at carriers is a good way of doing it. The opportunity cost of getting carriers is time and a lot of money that could be spent on collossi and templar, as well as upgrades, gateway units, etc. Essentially, money safety and units are what you are trading for carriers. In general, it is not worth getting carriers because the result of getting carriers isn't much better than just getting more collossi/HTs, and getting collossi/HTs/upgrades is safer and cheaper. What is the opportunity cost of Brood Lords/Ultralisks? More roaches? More lings? Simply put, Brood Lords and Ultralisks are actually good units compared to the rest of the zerg cast, getting them has lower opportunity cost, and they have a safer transition.

Because your implicit statement here is that getting Carriers only removes the ability to get other units, when the statements you just made on this page is it’s good to get other units, as you agreed with Timbo’s hopeless slice. Also, please enlighten me – if I am wrong – how Timbo’s hopeless slice also got the same impression as I did.


Also, don’t try to hide that the PFF you kept typing was a typo, it was a clearly an understanding mistake, as you typed it like that 3 times, and then when I say it’s actually PPF, again we have a long pause before a post before we see you acknowledge it and fix it. Now, how about acknowledging the match fixing scandal mistake?

So every time you choose to make a unit or build a structure, you have to cut down on something else.

This doesn’t seem like it was taken from an Econ 101 book or something…

And given that carriers aren't even necessairly better than Collossus/Void rays, as my earlier posts elaborate on, it's pretty much useless.

Then riddle me this (which I’ve asked 4 different times in 4 different posts now): Why did Blizzard keep it?

This discussion on carriers have gone sooo long, I'm pretty sure it's over. What is your conclusion on carriers? You have given none. I barely even know what you are arguing about at this point. I'm trying to say carriers are not worth it, you say I am wrong, but what are you trying to prove right?

The question above this quote. My conclusion agrees with Timbo’s hopeless slice, but yours does not. If you have the time to get Carriers, and the game’s been drawn on that long, is there an incentive to get them? If there is, why are they not yet had? They’re useless? They don’t offer any decent support?

Oh, and to recall one of your other posts you said:
Brood Lords, ultras, carriers, and battlecruisers are all big expensive T3 units. The fundamental difference between them is that it is way easier to get a lot of ultras/brood lords, along with other available options.

But let’s look at that in one of the most nitty-gritty forms:
Hatchery > Lair > Spire > Hive > Greater Spire or Hatch > Lair > Hive > Ultralisk Cavern
Command Center > Barracks > Starport > Fusion Core (tech lab somewhere in there)
Nexus > Gateway > Cybernetics Core > Stargate > Fleet Beacon

Now, you also said:
It takes a long time to get to brood lords/ultras, but you can made 5+ at once when you have the money banked. The infrastructure is not as expensive either; just that one ultra den or that greater spire. You already have hatches. To get carriers or BCs, you need to invest in fusion core/fleet beacon, and if you want to get a good number of either without taking years, you need multiple stargates/starports.

Apparently the other two races don’t have Stargates/Starports when you’re making the Fleet Beacon or Fusion Core as you need the Ultralisk Cavern or Greater Spire…

Blizzard knows the units of other races are produced at a linear rate, there’s a reason why they’re very strong. A Battlecruiser or a Carrier destroy ground units faster than a Brood Lord. Thors one-shot Ultralisks with 250 mm Strike Cannons (assuming no regeneration) and do much better than that with just +1 Vehicle Upgrades (but of course the Armory isn’t required for Thors so they’ll never get that).

Okay I've decided to make this final statement on carriers. I think it's fairly moderate and accurate.

Carriers are useful in certain situations, but in most normal situations there are better alternatives than going carriers.

This statement contradicts Post #494 (you wrote that one), because you say that Carriers aren’t cost-efficient, but they’re somehow in certain cases unit-efficient:

So carriers are "useless".

Also, if I was trolling, you would know. But sarcasm from frustration and then reverting to real discussion is not trolling. If you need a guide on how to troll, you can find many on the internet.

You said Carriers are useless in situations because of their cost-efficiency, but they’re also useful in “certain situations” – please describe these. At least try to defend your point, even if it’s this small part this time. Repeating what we’ve stated, unless there’s something I missed, does not count.

soyizgood:
But the beauty of SC 2 is you can win in both conventional and unconventional ways.

Oh God, I went nostalgic right there remembering one of my greatest games when I expanded far out of my base and a Terran player cheesed me with me winning with mass Zerglings. Except this was SC1 back before they had Medics. Good times…
 
only got the game a little while ago, just starting out, but anyone from Euro servers wanna give me a game/ give me some tips on how to win? :D
 
I'm a bit inebriated right now but ughhhhhh

I think timbo slice's ting goes along with what i say as well; that ifyou hae the economy for carriers, you probably already won anyway and probalby can just win with other stuff too.

I see caririers being useful against mech pvt, as a phoenix transition in pvp (but going phoenix into carier is really just aresult of build order win), and theya re generally not very good in pvz. Ins tandard situations like against bioballs+vikings or roach/hydra/corruptor, its better to get void rays/carriers than carriers and its cheaper to do so as well, which only makes it better. but therea re times where theyre useful.

Blizzard said themeselves somewhere (well my toss friend told me this) that they ddin't want carriers to be standard, they are the big bad boys of the protoss fleet they come when they are really needed. In general they are not really eneeded but sometimes they are. That's why blizz keeps them. As for messing up on creating units, they messed up awful with teh reaper thats why they nerfed reapers to obvlivion.

Okay can we just end and say we're both right? that i have points u have points and be happy? goddd you're aggravating my happy time. i'm going to play some sotis so yeah.

if anyone enjoys sotis add me virtu.156 soo funnn
 
dave333 confirmed for troll.

But since you're drunk, I'll go easy on you:

If you read my post, what you said doesn't match up with Timbo's hopeless slice, or yourself.

Won't Vikings just dominate them? Vikings are great anti-air units, and maybe, just maybe if they massed Marines, they might be able to take out Carriers as Viking replacements.

Blizzard said themeselves somewhere (well my toss friend told me this) that they ddin't want carriers to be standard, they are the big bad boys of the protoss fleet they come when they are really needed. In general they are not really eneeded but sometimes they are. That's why blizz keeps them. As for messing up on creating units, they messed up awful with teh reaper thats why they nerfed reapers to obvlivion.

Confirmed for troll/drunk.

Okay can we just end and say we're both right? that i have points u have points and be happy? goddd you're aggravating my happy time. i'm going to play some sotis so yeah.

if anyone enjoys sotis add me virtu.156 soo funnn

You go enjoy your happy time, but if you keep contradicting yourself like that, you're not right and technically fixing your wrongs back to a point of a neutral position.
 
Finally got to hotel in hong kong I think I might go and try to get an asian version of sc2, would be pretty cool
 
I just got back from korea.. Man what an experience. I got a chance to watch the gstl finals and day 5 of the gsl super tournament. Got pictures with boxer, mkp, and some other players. So sick! Now that I'm back I'm a bit inspired by the Starcraft atmosphere in Korea and I might get back into playing a lot and make a push for top 200 (grandmaster)
 
Hot_Sauce:
I just got back from korea.. Man what an experience. I got a chance to watch the gstl finals and day 5 of the gsl super tournament. Got pictures with boxer, mkp, and some other players. So sick! Now that I'm back I'm a bit inspired by the Starcraft atmosphere in Korea and I might get back into playing a lot and make a push for top 200 (grandmaster)

Yep, Season 2 started like 2 months ago-ish. Good luck on everybody's endeavors!
 
Season 2 ranking system is very strange. There are people with very low points / stats in grand master league. I am in 4v4 / 2v2 grandmaster after winning like 1 game. Doesn't really make sense.
 
coyfish:
Season 2 ranking system is very strange. There are people with very low points / stats in grand master league. I am in 4v4 / 2v2 grandmaster after winning like 1 game. Doesn't really make sense.

When you get into Grand Master's League, your entire thing "resets" so to speak so that only the games you play in Grand Master are shown.
 
So I guess Raynor's efforts to rescue Kerrigan go for nothing. Well, at least his pursuit of his forbidden girlfriend resulted in huge casualties for the Dominion in the process.

Jim, find a somewhat normal chic. Kerrigan is someone the galaxy can do without.
 
Man, I suck now. I guess thats what happens for not using a computer for 3 weeks and not playing competitively for like 2-3 months prior.

Been losing to my buddy in diamond. When I was playing competitively in tournaments I would tool him any way I wanted, lol. I hate losing to Terrans even though they're bad. Mules and stim 1a MMM armies will let a lesser Terran beat a higher skilled Protoss or Zerg. I make no excuses though! I will improve and return to my old form - SOLID STANDARD PROTOSS! FOR AIUR!

Most of my old builds don't work anymore, I guess that's pretty normal though.
 
soyizgood:
So I guess Raynor's efforts to rescue Kerrigan go for nothing. Well, at least his pursuit of his forbidden girlfriend resulted in huge casualties for the Dominion in the process.

Jim, find a somewhat normal chic. Kerrigan is someone the galaxy can do without.

I don't think Kerrigan died at the end. It looked like she just kind of calmed down and rested in his arms. As for the storyline (this is a guess), I think she tries to get the Zerg army back since the Dark Voice will destroy the entire world if she doesn't. Although I do think it's freaky that the voice that helps her out has very human-like qualities.

As for "normal chicks," give me ONE normal chick from Wings of Liberty.

Mira Han - No. She's half robot and even then she's already "married." *Shivers*

Nova - She's an assassin. She works for Mengsk, who I believe we're all trying to rebel against.

Ariel Hansen - Infested. Unlike Kerrigan, even though she's infested I would not tap that.

IMO Kerrigan is the only "normal" girl in the storyline so far...
 
Man, I suck now. I guess thats what happens for not using a computer for 3 weeks and not playing competitively for like 2-3 months prior.

Been losing to my buddy in diamond. When I was playing competitively in tournaments I would tool him any way I wanted, lol. I hate losing to Terrans even though they're bad. Mules and stim 1a MMM armies will let a lesser Terran beat a higher skilled Protoss or Zerg. I make no excuses though! I will improve and return to my old form - SOLID STANDARD PROTOSS! FOR AIUR!

Most of my old builds don't work anymore, I guess that's pretty normal though.

Protoss is more rewarded for "Attack move" than terran imo... Protoss death ball > Terran MMM ball. All you really have to micro is sentry. Not saying terran is "hard" but definitely more integrate micro involved. I don't understand the terran "no skill" hate. Chronoboost > mules until about 10+ minutes. Protoss consistently outmacro me even when I expo earlier... until mid-late game at least. Lots of time to upgrade to orbital + 150 minerals + no SCV production at critical time = slow macro early on.

I think terran is the easiest race to learn but the hardest to master. Zerg is hard to learn but lots of areas to mold yourself into good player. Toss in the middle.
 
soyizgood:


I don't think Kerrigan died at the end. It looked like she just kind of calmed down and rested in his arms. As for the storyline (this is a guess), I think she tries to get the Zerg army back since the Dark Voice will destroy the entire world if she doesn't. Although I do think it's freaky that the voice that helps her out has very human-like qualities.

As for "normal chicks," give me ONE normal chick from Wings of Liberty.

Mira Han - No. She's half robot and even then she's already "married." *Shivers*

Nova - She's an assassin. She works for Mengsk, who I believe we're all trying to rebel against.

Ariel Hansen - Infested. Unlike Kerrigan, even though she's infested I would not tap that.

IMO Kerrigan is the only "normal" girl in the storyline so far...

I believe the plot to save Haven is the direction Blizzard chose. That makes Ariel arguably the most normal of the SC 2 girls. I guess Kate Lockwell counts for normal, though she absolutely was joyful when Donny Vermillion checked himself into an insane asylum.
 
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soyizgood:
I believe the plot to save Haven is the direction Blizzard chose. That makes Ariel arguably the most normal of the SC 2 girls. I guess Kate Lockwell counts for normal, though she absolutely was joyful when Donny Vermillion checked himself into an insane asylum.

I'm taking every option. News Anchors don't count because they're not that much of the actual storyline. Until she destroys a planet or something, she's not on my list.
 
I'm going to make Ravens a more important part of my air fleet. It came in handy in my 3v3 match. One guy invested a lot on dark templar and he killed my gold expansion twice, but the ravens aided my army in cutting those DT to size. Dark Templar must be expensive because late in the game he tried to rush my planetary fortress with zealots and failed. My teammate ruled the air with those ravens. Cut those void rays and battlecruisers up.
 
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I'm going to make Ravens a more important part of my air fleet. It came in handy in my 3v3 match. One guy invested a lot on dark templar and he killed my gold expansion twice, but the ravens aided my army in cutting those DT to size. Dark Templar must be expensive because late in the game he tried to rush my planetary fortress with zealots and failed. My teammate ruled the air with those ravens. Cut those void rays and battlecruisers up.

Point Defense Drone vs. Protoss is not even fair, stalkers can't hit you! :)

Ravens have serious potential. Upgrade seeker missile, and you can take out a pack of banelings before they hit you. (although I never end up getting there...)
 
I wonder if roaches have trumped hydralisks as the "face" of the Zerg. You even see pro games with Zerg players opting to skip hydralisk production.
 
Point Defense Drone vs. Protoss is not even fair, stalkers can't hit you! :)

Ravens have serious potential. Upgrade seeker missile, and you can take out a pack of banelings before they hit you. (although I never end up getting there...)

Ravens own but seeker missile just blows. Using seeker missile vs banelings is such a bad idea lol. Tanks are so much smarter / easier / cost effective.

Have you seen how slow the missile is? Or how long it takes to get 150 energy only to waste on a missed shot. PD / turrets are so much better.
 
Played one game last night for the first time in a couple weeks and got promoted to masters in 3v3.

I hate terran vs terrans and I usually cheese or basically all in but I have just tried going pure ghost. I have been relatively successful at it. Get about 4 and head in. They destroy any bio easily and at that time in the opponent will only have 1 banshee, 1 tank, or a few helions. Ghosts mop all that up.
 
I want to do doom-drops a bit more. Idra is awesome at doing those.

I'm more comfortable playing 3v3 than 1v1. I need to be more creative in my unit selection and get my army out earlier.
 
I tried a 1v1 for once. Lost, as usual. He attacked me first with a banshee. When I sent a recon force to his expansion he had a bunker and a tank covering it. I was knocked off balance and then he came with his main army with a few siege tanks.

Anytime I lose a 1v1 I go weeks before I even try another one. I may even consider changing to protoss. Terran you almost have to strike right away. I wait too long to build up forces and just one little move by my opponent can throw me off.

I'm thinking of just building a few marines and marauders and going to air attack earlier.
 
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I tried a 1v1 for once. Lost, as usual. He attacked me first with a banshee. When I sent a recon force to his expansion he had a bunker and a tank covering it. I was knocked off balance and then he came with his main army with a few siege tanks.

Anytime I lose a 1v1 I go weeks before I even try another one. I may even consider changing to protoss. Terran you almost have to strike right away. I wait too long to build up forces and just one little move by my opponent can throw me off.

I'm thinking of just building a few marines and marauders and going to air attack earlier.

Consider dropping your ~3rd scan and see what tech he's going. If you scan around 6:30 you can see a banshee building (assuming reasonably tight build). If you see a tech lab researching on the starport, drop an engineering bay or if you have a starport, build a raven [worst case, you can save up your next scan]. If your opponent is turtling hard, go for the expo and tech, or get upgrades.

Standard MMM is pretty strong if you can defend his harrass. Day9 daily recently did Terran week, might want to watch the TVT daily. (I'm not great/don't play many 1v1s, so take it FWIW)
 
Patch 1.3.5 is out. Very minor which disappoints me.

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.3.5

General


Players from Latin America and North America will soon be able to play games together, add each other to their in-game friends list, and compete on the same ladder. For more information on region linking, please visit the official community site.
Several performance and memory improvements have been made.
"Player Left" messages will once again appear in replays.
The Hellion’s Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade icon has been updated (now with more blue flames!).

StarCraft II Editor Improvements


UI errors will now go into a newly-created Error Display Message window.
Cooldowns shorter than ¼ of a second no longer display on the command card.
 
Season 3 started. And man am I pumped. Played a placement match 1v1. I rarely ever win 1v1, but this time I prevailed. YES!

I scouted the protoss player's location early. Walled off my ramp to where he couldn't get his scout in. Built two barracks, 1 factory, 1 starport. I placed enough marines and marauders to give him the impression I was turtling. Added 3 siege tanks for cover. He had no idea I was plotting a cloaked banshee rush.

I launched the banshee attack after he failed to break the barriers to my ramp. I then expanded so he likely thought I was just expanding late. He tried a 5 gate, 1 robo build.

The banshees crushed the expansion and since his main forces warped in the middle of field they were too far away and too slow to help. After cleaning that up we had enough cloak to waste the pylons in order to supply block him and disable his gateways. Minimal resistance and then proceeded to blast his structures. He then tried a suicide attack on my expo and main base which failed and forced him to gg. I suck, but victory felt SWEET!
 
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Last season I didn't win a single 1v1 league match in about 9 tries. This campaign I did in it on the 1st try. It took 30 minutes and the protoss player produced more workers than me, but I was in control of this match.

MVPs of the match were the banshees and the sensor tower. Built only 3 barracks, 1 factory, two starports. I turned the protoss player into a turtle. Destroyed his midfield pylons and photon cannons. Stalled for time with a suicidal MM charge so I could unleash cloaked banshees. Did about 3 banshee raids which decimated his main base. Then finished him off with MM. Protoss player quit without saying gg.

I really need to boost my economy, but I did make good use of my money. Too bad two battlecruisers were wasted for almost nothing. I built up numerous turrets in case protoss had voidrays or an observer. I should have made the 3rd base sooner and transferred SCVs over to it. But my base and expansions were never in danger, the banshees did great, and I could have starved the protoss earlier had I charged to destroy the expansion instead of going up the main ramp. I destroyed 44 structures and lost 0 in the process. :)
 
Patch 1.3.6

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.3.6

Bug Fixes


General
Fixed an issue where using the Fun or Not system would sometimes cause players to be disconnected from the game.
Fixed an issue with the "Q" key being unusable in Mac's French Grid keyboard layout.


StarCraft II Editor
Fixed an issue that prevents using Value to set Player parameter in the Modify Player Property function.
Fixed an issue when using Unit Can Attack Unit Type function that could cause the game to become unresponsive.




StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Tools Update 2.1.2.2525


When downloading multiple patches concurrently, the launcher will now show the combined progress of all patches instead of showing the progress of each individual patch.

5 1v1 wins in a row. Granted it's bronze, but I've beaten 2 Protoss, 2 Terran, and a Zerg. I'll shut up and get back to the fight. :)
 
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Last season I didn't win a single 1v1 league match in about 9 tries. This campaign I did in it on the 1st try. It took 30 minutes and the protoss player produced more workers than me, but I was in control of this match.

MVPs of the match were the banshees and the sensor tower. Built only 3 barracks, 1 factory, two starports. I turned the protoss player into a turtle. Destroyed his midfield pylons and photon cannons. Stalled for time with a suicidal MM charge so I could unleash cloaked banshees. Did about 3 banshee raids which decimated his main base. Then finished him off with MM. Protoss player quit without saying gg.

I really need to boost my economy, but I did make good use of my money. Too bad two battlecruisers were wasted for almost nothing. I built up numerous turrets in case protoss had voidrays or an observer. I should have made the 3rd base sooner and transferred SCVs over to it. But my base and expansions were never in danger, the banshees did great, and I could have starved the protoss earlier had I charged to destroy the expansion instead of going up the main ramp. I destroyed 44 structures and lost 0 in the process. :)

You build a lot of stuff, dude ;)

Check out this guy's stream, i think you'll learn a lot by watching. I like his sort of chaotic macro style.

http://www.justin.tv/sterlingkolde/b/287852275?
 
You build a lot of stuff, dude ;)

Check out this guy's stream, i think you'll learn a lot by watching. I like his sort of chaotic macro style.

http://www.justin.tv/sterlingkolde/b/287852275?

I looked over my vid last night. The banshee strike was lethal. On my 1st strike I destroyed his main base and took out his probes while destroying numerous pylons and a few warpgates. Had I settled to use my MM on the expansion I basically would have won because his gold expansion wasn't doing anything. Oh well, it was a huge confidence booster for me. I could have played better, but I'm getting more comfortable splitting units and taking up the offensive.

I'll look at your link tonight. :)
 
I looked over my vid last night. The banshee strike was lethal. On my 1st strike I destroyed his main base and took out his probes while destroying numerous pylons and a few warpgates. Had I settled to use my MM on the expansion I basically would have won because his gold expansion wasn't doing anything. Oh well, it was a huge confidence booster for me. I could have played better, but I'm getting more comfortable splitting units and taking up the offensive.

I'll look at your link tonight. :)

My question is: When you start pumping banshees, do you have enough economy to still be producing out of all of your rax? If not, cut one of the rax early on (if you're doing this on one base) and then you can get a few extra SCVs and/or expand earlier. Not sure on your build timing. Drop down the additional raxes later in the game(s).

I think you'll like the guy's stream. I don't think his unit composition will mirror yours very well at all, but just keep an eye on his macro-ing, I've learned a lot in terms of temporarily cutting production at the right time to get an extra base up.

In terms of how i've been playing, all I have to say is QQ. I scouted/scanned one of my terran opponents early, saw he went a tech labbed starport, and then dropped an engineering bay AND put up turrets, but due to the design of one of the new maps, the turrets have to be placed in a more exposed area to effectively cover the base(s). I didn't suffer TOO much from the banshee harass because I was prepared, but he still got an advantage on me and ended up going heavy tanks... I think that game would have been mine easily if it wasn't on a ridiculously unfamiliar map. The banshee actually disappears into the high ground behind a base... Not sure what the map designers were thinking there. I'll just have to abuse it to my advantage later.
 
My question is: When you start pumping banshees, do you have enough economy to still be producing out of all of your rax? If not, cut one of the rax early on (if you're doing this on one base) and then you can get a few extra SCVs and/or expand earlier. Not sure on your build timing. Drop down the additional raxes later in the game(s).

I think you'll like the guy's stream. I don't think his unit composition will mirror yours very well at all, but just keep an eye on his macro-ing, I've learned a lot in terms of temporarily cutting production at the right time to get an extra base up.

In terms of how i've been playing, all I have to say is QQ. I scouted/scanned one of my terran opponents early, saw he went a tech labbed starport, and then dropped an engineering bay AND put up turrets, but due to the design of one of the new maps, the turrets have to be placed in a more exposed area to effectively cover the base(s). I didn't suffer TOO much from the banshee harass because I was prepared, but he still got an advantage on me and ended up going heavy tanks... I think that game would have been mine easily if it wasn't on a ridiculously unfamiliar map. The banshee actually disappears into the high ground behind a base... Not sure what the map designers were thinking there. I'll just have to abuse it to my advantage later.

I've seen part of the stream so far. Is he the Terran version of idra? Idra is the master of Zerg macro. This player likes to expand before doing the major engagement. He's good at juggling various units.

I really haven't used ghosts much. Only once in a while as I'm not great using EMP. That and I haven't utilized the tab key to to juggle different mix of units. I tend to group key certain units.

So far I'm 8-3. Two of my losses came when the enemy loaded up on marines before my siege tanks could be built to defend the ramp, and when the protoss loaded up on stalkers probably going aggressive on gas. I didn't bother to look at that replay as I was burned going for an early expand. My wins have taken 19-33 minutes to pull off. Several months ago it took me 48 minutes to beat a player that had only 70 supply max. So I think I'm evolving, bit by bit.

Seems I like to go 3 rax, 1 factory, 2 starports. This way I can build up marines and marauders to fortify the ramp while popping a few siege tanks as defense while I take the main army out. I can attack with banshees before or after the main army just to soften up the enemy. I've noticed zerg and protoss are vulnerable to banshee strikes as they rarely put detectors over their expansions. Even terrans can get caught off guard if they used up all their energy on MULES. I think most players only bother with detectors AFTER they got whacked. I don't have a true system for building banshees other than if I have at least 4 in queue I'll focus on adding ground units to make for a nice bioball + a few thors. I try not to use too many types of units while teching up the ones I do use.
 
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I've seen part of the stream so far. Is he the Terran version of idra? Idra is the master of Zerg macro. This player likes to expand before doing the major engagement. He's good at juggling various units.

I really haven't used ghosts much. Only once in a while as I'm not great using EMP. That and I haven't utilized the tab key to to juggle different mix of units. I tend to group key certain units.

So far I'm 8-3. Two of my losses came when the enemy loaded up on marines before my siege tanks could be built to defend the ramp, and when the protoss loaded up on stalkers probably going aggressive on gas. I didn't bother to look at that replay as I was burned going for an early expand. My wins have taken 19-33 minutes to pull off. Several months ago it took me 48 minutes to beat a player that had only 70 supply max. So I think I'm evolving, bit by bit.

Seems I like to go 3 rax, 1 factory, 2 starports. This way I can build up marines and marauders to fortify the ramp while popping a few siege tanks as defense while I take the main army out. I can attack with banshees before or after the main army just to soften up the enemy. I've noticed zerg and protoss are vulnerable to banshee strikes as they rarely put detectors over their expansions. Even terrans can get caught off guard if they used up all their energy on MULES. I think most players only bother with detectors AFTER they got whacked. I don't have a true system for building banshees other than if I have at least 4 in queue I'll focus on adding ground units to make for a nice bioball + a few thors. I try not to use too many types of units while teching up the ones I do use.

I'm not really qualified to comment on his "style" of play. I think on an absolute scale, Idra is much more mechanically sound. This guy expands quickly and his style of play rewards his sometimes sloppy mechanics. he can do supply call downs if absolutely necessary, or build several depots at once. he tends to have lots of extra scans and uses them for vision when making tank lines. He's got a good game sense and intuition as to where he scans. You'll often notice he'll drop a scan and catch the tail end of an army relocating, etc.

I'm not sure if you're bunkering down, or if you're scouting, but if you get into his base, and you don't see any gas, and you see 2 barracks down, you should probably bunker up early before making your mix of production buildings. If you have very early aggression, you should try identifying the tell-tale signs early and then do some "crisis management" before going off on your "standard" build. Banshees as you said are rewarded (especially at low levels of play), but they're susceptible to all-ins, even with a wall.

19-33 is kind of long for a game, mine are typically under 13mins or so, but I play more aggressively, and I tend to stick to tier1 units. I focus more on timing attacks. I try to get a sense of the build of the opponent, and then go an all-in-ish attack based on what I see. I like thors with autorepairing SCVs vs. zerg.

The thing you mentioned about this guy going for early expos, you have to note what kind of information he sees before expo-ing. Most players aren't going to blindly expo with faith alone. If he sees his opponent has 2 gas down (or something like this), he can assume that he is teching. You generally aren't going to drop an expo when you see no gas and an aggressive opener (2 gate/2rax etc). If you see 2 gas, for early game, you can drop a bunker and you'll survive a really early push. You should get more information (suicide an SCV if you need to) to determine whether or not they're going a strong push [early-mid game]. There's only SO much benefit from trying to mimic this guy without understanding his thought process, but this guy isn't a turtler, so i figure it'd give you some inspiration as to how to push out without worrying too much. Waste your second scan and get some info! :)

What's your expo timing, out of curiosity? Do you build all your production buildings before expanding? If so, you're wasting a lot of minerals, as you can't produce off of all those buildings at once on 1 base.

As far as detection, if you think about the tech path for the zerg/toss, you have to get an evo chamber (IIRC) before putting down a spore crawler, and an overseer requires a lair tech. Most people in bronze aren't going to be focusing on upgrades, so the spore crawler is generally not going to be something to worry about. Lair tech will generally be created if the opponent is going air, and if that's the case, try to scout this early and then push with your infantry, chances are you can take it out if you recognize where their resources are going.

Similarly from protoss, a forge needs to be put down for cannons, and these are really easy to circumvent. An observer requires a cybernetics core, then a robo facility. So... in general, in bronze league I dont' think you have to worry TOO much about detection. Even for Terran, skirt around the edges with a good escape path, and force the scan. Once the scan is expired, come back in and harass. Always keep the banshees moving, use the "stutter step" method (move, s, move, s) to pick off workers, etc.

After the harass, I like picking off standalone pylons and supply depots... As usual, the disclaimer of me not being extremely good still stands ;)
 
I'm not really qualified to comment on his "style" of play. I think on an absolute scale, Idra is much more mechanically sound. This guy expands quickly and his style of play rewards his sometimes sloppy mechanics. he can do supply call downs if absolutely necessary, or build several depots at once. he tends to have lots of extra scans and uses them for vision when making tank lines. He's got a good game sense and intuition as to where he scans. You'll often notice he'll drop a scan and catch the tail end of an army relocating, etc.

I'm not sure if you're bunkering down, or if you're scouting, but if you get into his base, and you don't see any gas, and you see 2 barracks down, you should probably bunker up early before making your mix of production buildings. If you have very early aggression, you should try identifying the tell-tale signs early and then do some "crisis management" before going off on your "standard" build. Banshees as you said are rewarded (especially at low levels of play), but they're susceptible to all-ins, even with a wall.

19-33 is kind of long for a game, mine are typically under 13mins or so, but I play more aggressively, and I tend to stick to tier1 units. I focus more on timing attacks. I try to get a sense of the build of the opponent, and then go an all-in-ish attack based on what I see. I like thors with autorepairing SCVs vs. zerg.

The thing you mentioned about this guy going for early expos, you have to note what kind of information he sees before expo-ing. Most players aren't going to blindly expo with faith alone. If he sees his opponent has 2 gas down (or something like this), he can assume that he is teching. You generally aren't going to drop an expo when you see no gas and an aggressive opener (2 gate/2rax etc). If you see 2 gas, for early game, you can drop a bunker and you'll survive a really early push. You should get more information (suicide an SCV if you need to) to determine whether or not they're going a strong push [early-mid game]. There's only SO much benefit from trying to mimic this guy without understanding his thought process, but this guy isn't a turtler, so i figure it'd give you some inspiration as to how to push out without worrying too much. Waste your second scan and get some info! :)

What's your expo timing, out of curiosity? Do you build all your production buildings before expanding? If so, you're wasting a lot of minerals, as you can't produce off of all those buildings at once on 1 base.

As far as detection, if you think about the tech path for the zerg/toss, you have to get an evo chamber (IIRC) before putting down a spore crawler, and an overseer requires a lair tech. Most people in bronze aren't going to be focusing on upgrades, so the spore crawler is generally not going to be something to worry about. Lair tech will generally be created if the opponent is going air, and if that's the case, try to scout this early and then push with your infantry, chances are you can take it out if you recognize where their resources are going.

Similarly from protoss, a forge needs to be put down for cannons, and these are really easy to circumvent. An observer requires a cybernetics core, then a robo facility. So... in general, in bronze league I dont' think you have to worry TOO much about detection. Even for Terran, skirt around the edges with a good escape path, and force the scan. Once the scan is expired, come back in and harass. Always keep the banshees moving, use the "stutter step" method (move, s, move, s) to pick off workers, etc.

After the harass, I like picking off standalone pylons and supply depots... As usual, the disclaimer of me not being extremely good still stands ;)

I don't have a set timing for expanding. It's so situational and/or haphazrd. I try to get info on enemy movements with sensor towers and scans along with holding a Xel'naga tower. If I don't see nor suspect anything then I'm comfortable getting an expansion. I'm kind of paranoid and will upgrade the CC to a PF in case I get caught off guard. At that point I'll have a few siege tanks as cover. The MM group will scout a bit. It's kind of a distraction to my enemy so I can do my banshee raid, if that's my plan. I could just go bulldoze or pin him down if he hasn't done any scouting, throwing in a few Thors.

I don't do a great job building up economy (getting better though), so I have to do something to rattle my opponent. Bait him into a siege tank ambush, banshee raid, divert with a pseudo attack, something to throw a wrinkle in their plan.
 
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