Starting Crosses / Starting Clamp

[gkamieneski]

YuLittle's videos are invaluable, but I have a point to make about the video regarding starting crosses with a starting clamp.

I had always used a starting knot, but recently stratied using the starting clamp and I much prefer using a finish knot and having more consistent tension in my first cross string.

The one point in the video instruction that I cannot reconcile is that when he goes back to tension the top cross he states that you must remove the starting clamp while the string is being tensioned and before clamping inside the frame and tieing off. Well, the starting clamp is on the outside of the frame between the frame and the tension head. Pulling this top cross tension is not impacted whether or not there is a starting clamp still attached. Am I wrong about this?

 

[Irvin]

With the starting clamp on when the top cross is re tensioned there is no machine clamp on the top cross. Not sure what you're saying but you should tension, remove starting clamp then clamp the string with the machine clamp.

 

[spinovic]

I'm pretty new to stringing myself, so I could be wrong about what I'm about to say.

But, I think I know what you're getting at and what you want to know.

You are thinking that it shouldn't matter, because even if you release the starting clamp first, you are going to re-pull the tension on that first string, so either way you get the tension you want. I believe the problem is that when you release the starting clamp, you not only lose tension in that first string, but you lose a little in the subsequent strings that you won't be able to correct when you re-pull the top cross. That's why you want to leave the starting clamp on, pull tension again, then clamp on the inside of the stringbed, then tie it off.

Some of the veterans can verify or correct me, but I think that is the answer you're looking for.

 

[gkamieneski]

No, that is not what I am saying. Maybe I am just a poor video watcher, but he insists that you must remove the starting clamp while you are retensioning that top cross (he is using constant pull). I'm saying you have no reason to touch the starting clamp while retensioning the to cross, until you clamp off the top cross inside the frame and tieoff.

If the starting clamp is sitting outside the frame, between the frame and the tension head, then it is just along for the ride while you retension that top cross.

 

[Cfidave]

That is correct, the starting clamp would be hanging on the first cross string, doing absolutely nothing. The tension head would be holding tension at this point.

 

[rich s]

personally, I don't remove the starting clamp until the fixed clamp is clamped to the string and the base tightened...... only because I don't want to have to re-do the entire string job if the starting clamp is removed and the base of the fixed clamp isn't locked or the string slips out of the fixed clamp.....

belt and suspenders....
my $.02

 

[YULitle]

YuLittle's videos are invaluable, but I have a point to make about the video regarding starting crosses with a starting clamp.

I had always used a starting knot, but recently stratied using the starting clamp and I much prefer using a finish knot and having more consistent tension in my first cross string.

The one point in the video instruction that I cannot reconcile is that when he goes back to tension the top cross he states that you must remove the starting clamp while the string is being tensioned and before clamping inside the frame and tieing off. Well, the starting clamp is on the outside of the frame between the frame and the tension head. Pulling this top cross tension is not impacted whether or not there is a starting clamp still attached. Am I wrong about this?

Here's why:

When you tension the topcross, you'll have to put a machine clamp on it, near the starting clamp. If you release the tensionhead without releasing the starting clamp, you should have a well-tensioned stringbed that is ready to go. But, you also have tension between the last machine clamp that you used and the starting clamp. That tension is the problem. When you release the starting clamp at this point, the tension is released as you remove the starting clamp. This is bad. If you've ever accidentally released a clamp that had tension on it, you've probably noticed that the string gets all scratched. That's because it's moving through the clamp for a tiny bit before you can get it off completely. So, by removing the starting clamp DURING the tensioning, you are eliminating this problem.

Regards,
YULitle

 

[Dags]

:!::!::!:

Did YULitle really just post? How are you doing? We haven't seen you in years! Still stringing?

(apologies to the OP and DD for this thread jack... hopefully you understand. ;-))

 

[gkamieneski]

YUlitle, thanks for ringing in to explain your thought process. Personally I don't see the physics involved. If you do not touch the starting clamp and you tension the string, lockout tensioner, constant pull, doesn't matter, I do not believe there is any tension at all between the machine clamp you just used to secure the top cross and the starting clamp that is along for the ride.

 

[Irvin]

No, that is not what I am saying. Maybe I am just a poor video watcher, but he insists that you must remove the starting clamp while you are retensioning that top cross (he is using constant pull). I'm saying you have no reason to touch the starting clamp while retensioning the to cross, until you clamp off the top cross inside the frame and tieoff.

If the starting clamp is sitting outside the frame, between the frame and the tension head, then it is just along for the ride while you retension that top cross.

You are correct as long as you remove the starting clamp befor you remove the tensioner. If there is any tension on the string between the machine clamp and starting clamp the starting clamp, against the frame, is holding that tension. If you have the tension equalized on both sides of the clamp you can take it off (the same way you do with any clamp.) if tension is not equalized removing the clamp may marr the string.

 

[Irvin]

YUlitle, thanks for ringing in to explain your thought process. Personally I don't see the physics involved. If you do not touch the starting clamp and you tension the string, lockout tensioner, constant pull, doesn't matter, I do not believe there is any tension at all between the machine clamp you just used to secure the top cross and the starting clamp that is along for the ride.

YULitle welcome back. Gkamieneski imagine this scenario. You tension and clamp the top cross and remove the tensioner. The starting clamp is right up against the frame holding the string. You remove the starting clamp and you have drawback. Now you have marred e string right where is is going to bend around for your tie off.

EDIT: Granted when tensioning the top cross last the stringbed will be so stiff there may not be any tension held by the starting clamp but why gamble?

 

[gkamieneski]

O.K. thanks. I've got it. Turns out that I am making the assumption that retensioning the top cross slightly moves the starting clamp outward from the frame and hence my description of it "being along for the ride".

You and YULitle on the other hand, are assuming, or better yet just know from experience, that securing the machine clamp will pull the starting clamp back against the frame, even if it had moved away slightly from the retensioning.

I'm going to try it next time and watch what happens to the starting clamp. I always add 2 lbs. to the last string before tieoff anyway so I am expecting the starting clamp to not be right up against the frame after retensioning.

 

[Irvin]

I start my crosses a little different. I run in the top two crosses and put the starting clamp outside the frame on the top cross and tension the second cross. After I complete all the crosses I go back up and tension the top cross and the string moves the clamp about 1/4" away from the frame. I still take the clamp off first because I have to take it off sooner or later to tie off.

 

[Tennis Fanatic 070]

personally, I don't remove the starting clamp until the fixed clamp is clamped to the string and the base tightened...... only because I don't want to have to re-do the entire string job if the starting clamp is removed and the base of the fixed clamp isn't locked or the string slips out of the fixed clamp.....

belt and suspenders....
my $.02

I do it exactly the same way. Never realized this way is 'wrong', but I'll keep doing it that way, works perfect.

 

[GlenK]

I string the first three crosses then tie off the crosses at the top. Just don't like leaving only that starting clamp supporting the entire cross tension for all that time.