Starting mains for symmetrical string bed tension.

M

malagabee

Rookie
Does any one check the string frequency by pulling them with your fingers after stringing the 1st few mains to make sure they match in sound frequency left vs right? I've been trying different starting methods to try and get the sound frequency to match especially the 1st 2 mains at least. For example I've seen people pulling the 1st right main with the clamp on 1st left main against the frame on opposite end vs. some people who clamps the 1st left main say 5 inches below the frame before pulling tension on 1st right main. Then once he's done clamping off the 1st right main, he doesn't pull tension on the 1st left main and instead thread the string through the 2nd left grommet holes and pulls tension on the 2nd left string. I can't help to think that this double pulling or 1 and a half pulling is an issue with matching up the tension left to right. I understand why people may want to stagger the initial position of the clamps so they don't jam into each other. Just wonder what stringers think of this?

Then how about the Run Yu method? Is it a good way to create the best matching (symmetrical) tension bed?
 
@malagabee,

Exact methods may/will be dependent on the equipment that one is working with.

Exactly what machine/clamps are you working with?
Do you also have a starting clamp?

Also, what are you considering the "Ron Yu method"?
Best to provide a link, so that we're on the same page here.
 
I use a 6 point support machine with crank tensioner. I do use the starting clamp when using the Yuzuki method to start mains as well as starting crosses. But that just prevents initial slippage. I saw a video on YT demostrating the Ron Yu starting method. The guy has a channel called Mains and crosses on YT.
 
malagabee said:
Does any one check the string frequency
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I did once a long time ago but I did not measure freq until tying off the mains. I found I got the closest frequency on liked numbered main when I never go more than 1 main string ahead on either side.
 
And the staggered initial clamp I mentioned is used by another YTber Mark Sansait. Here is a link of his video. Let me know.
 
My 2 cents:

malagabee said:
And the staggered initial clamp I mentioned is used by another YTber Mark Sansait. Here is a link of his video. Let me know.
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Only got through a couple min before I had to stop. When he starts out, he tensions several mains on one side of the racquet - without tensioning any on the other side. IMHO it’s better practice to do 2 on one side, 2 on the other, and so on. Not to mention, when he gets ready to pull the first main, he sets the anchor clamp in the center of the string bed? All due respect, not good, not a fan.

malagabee said:
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A user named drakulie introduced this starting method here a few years ago. It’s a solid method, provided your starting clamp is clean and in good working order. Beyond that Ron Yu is, of course, a legend in this industry. So probably goes without saying that any method he employs is almost certainly top notch.
 
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am1899 said:
My 2 cents:



Only got through a couple min before I had to stop. When he starts out, he tensions several mains on one side of the racquet - without tensioning any on the other side. Better to do 2 on one side, 2 on the other, and so on. Not to mention, when he gets ready to pull the first main, he sets the anchor clamp in the center of the string bed? All due respect, not good, not a fan.
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Thank you. That’s exactly my point. Since his anchor clamp is half way down the middle of racket. He’s pulling 1.3 string length on the 1st pull. Then he doesn’t tension his anchor string and goes and pull the 2nd main next to it and again pulling about 1.5 string length. All that tension is divided up by 1.5 so he’s only getting 33 lbs per string when trying to pull 50 for example. When he strings the rest of the strings he pulls and clamps as normal but his string bed won’t be even I bet if one takes a measurement with the String Meter device and compare both sides when he’s done with the job. I’ve seen others do 3,3,3,3,2,2 or 3,6,3,2,2 etc but it’s the anchor clamp that throws me off with his method. I bet it gives him an extra soft bed in the middle although not an even one. He’s known to string his polys at 55 lbs and had some elbow issues b4.
 
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malagabee said:
Thank you. That’s exactly my point. Since his anchor clamp is half way down the middle of racket. He’s pulling 1.3 string length on the 1st pull. Then he doesn’t tension his anchor string and goes and pull the 2nd main next to it and again pulling about 1.5 string length. All that tension is divided up by 1.5 so he’s only getting 33 lbs per string when trying to pull 50 for example. When he strings the rest of the strings he pulls and clamps as normal but his string bed won’t be even I bet if one takes a measurement with the String Meter device and compare both sides when he’s done with the job. I’ve seen others do 3,3,3,3,2,2 or 3,6,3,2,2 etc but it’s the anchor clamp that throws me off with his method. I bet it gives him an extra soft bed in the middle although not an even one. He’s known to string his polys at 55 lbs and had some elbow issues b4.
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Frankly, my main concern with setting the anchor clamp in the middle of the bed like that is where that clamp is in relation to where the ball will be struck in the string bed.

I personally don’t necessarily think accuracy with respect to tension is at issue with his starting method. Remember that friction between the grommets will prevent “leaking” of tension from one string to another.

That said, I wouldn’t set an anchor clamp there, and I wouldn’t advise anyone else do so, either.
 
am1899 said:
A user named drakulie introduced this starting method
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I believe that was @uk_skippy that introduced that method, he also used a leather pad between the starting clamp and the frame. But IMO it’s not that big of a deal who introduced it. I’ve been using that method for a long time but different than video in as much as I use a leather pad to protect the grommet and frame. I tension the 2 center mains then the the 2 #2 mains. Then never get more than 1 main ahead on either side.
 
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Irvin said:
I believe that was @uk_skippy that introduced that method, he also used a leather pad between the starting clamp and the frame. But IMO it’s not that big of a deal who introduced it. I’ve been using that method for a long time but different than video in as much as I use a leather pad to protect the grommet and frame. I tension the 2 center mains then the the 2 #2 mains. Then never get more than 1 main ahead on either side.
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I really like watching this guy he’s a very good trainer and really knows what he is doing. However I noticed he’s not using the same clamp to clamp off the 2nd main on the head side of the frame like the Mains and Xs guy does. Not sure what difference it makes in the end if any.
 
am1899 said:
Frankly, my main concern with setting the anchor clamp in the middle of the bed like that is where that clamp is in relation to where the ball will be struck in the string bed.

I personally don’t necessarily think accuracy with respect to tension is at issue with his starting method. Remember that friction between the grommets will prevent “leaking” of tension from one string to another.

That said, I wouldn’t set an anchor clamp there, and I wouldn’t advise anyone else do so, either.
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I don’t follow you. What does where his anchor clamp goes have to do with where the ball will be striking the string bed?

The normal method is to go back and pull tension on the untensioned anchor string. And having his anchor clamp near the middle means only part of the anchor string is tensioned and the rest not. Then he doesn’t pull tension on it. Skips over and double pull it from the 2nd mains. The tension will definitely leak. If it doesn’t then why not just double pull everything it will speed things up no?
 
malagabee said:
I really like watching this guy he’s a very good trainer and really knows what he is doing. However I noticed he’s not using the same clamp to clamp off the 2nd main on the head side of the frame like the Mains and Xs guy does. Not sure what difference it makes in the end if any.
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The difference if the clamps and bases on most machines are dedicated to one side of the racket.
 
Irvin:
Not true. I tried the same way with my cheap Eagnas machine and the clamp CAN reach the 2nd main on the opposite side. However, beyond that it can't go any further and will require the rails to be in the round pattern like the expensive machines.
 
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malagabee said:
I don’t follow you. What does where his anchor clamp goes have to do with where the ball will be striking the string bed?

The normal method is to go back and pull tension on the untensioned anchor string. And having his anchor clamp near the middle means only part of the anchor string is tensioned and the rest not. Then he doesn’t pull tension on it. Skips over and double pull it from the 2nd mains. The tension will definitely leak. If it doesn’t then why not just double pull everything it will speed things up no?
Click to expand...

I went back and watched again, and I see what you mean. IMHO, he will probably get close to ref tension on 1LM. But because of where he puts the anchor clamp and the fact that he never directly pulls 1RM, I would be concerned about the accuracy of the tension on 1RM. If you’re looking for a method that increases the accuracy on the center mains, that ain’t it.

As for the placement of the anchor clamp, it’s right in the center of the bed - the same place where the ball is going to be repeatedly hitting the string bed. Although I keep my clamps clean and well adjusted, I wouldn’t want to clamp any string in the hitting area of the racquet if I could avoid it.
 
Ah, I see what u mean and it's so true. Sorry I was not so precise the way I describe the sequence on how he went about it as he did numerous live stringing videos and the way I remembered on some of them isn't exactly the same sequence as the video I attached here. But indeed I wouldn't follow his way of doing things for sure...
 
am1899 said:
I went back and watched again, and I see what you mean. IMHO, he will probably get close to ref tension on 1LM. But because of where he puts the anchor clamp and the fact that he never directly pulls 1RM, I would be concerned about the accuracy of the tension on 1RM. If you’re looking for a method that increases the accuracy on the center mains, that ain’t it.

As for the placement of the anchor clamp, it’s right in the center of the bed - the same place where the ball is going to be repeatedly hitting the string bed. Although I keep my clamps clean and well adjusted, I wouldn’t want to clamp any string in the hitting area of the racquet if I could avoid it.
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Ah, I see what u mean and it's so true. Sorry I was not so precise the way I describe the sequence on how he went about it as he did numerous live stringing videos and the way I remembered on some of them isn't exactly the same sequence as the video I attached here. But indeed I wouldn't follow his way of doing things for sure...
 
malagabee said:
Irvin:
Not true. I tried the same way with my cheap Eagnas machine and the clamp CAN reach the 2nd main on the opposite side. However, beyond that it can't go any further and will require the rails to be in the round pattern like the expensive machines.
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The video you posted the stringer strung 3 mains on the left before switching to the right side. I don’t go 2 mains ahead on one side. If I use the right side clamp to clamp the second main on the left my next string will be the second main on the right. Therefore, I don’t switch sides with the clamps. Also notice at 2 minutes when he clamps the second main he turns the clamp and base to the opposite side so it is like he is using the other clamp. You can not do that on most fixed clamp machines. So even if you do use the right clamp to clamp a left main the billiard (6&12 support) will get in the way and you can not clamp as close to the frame.
 
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@malagabee remember you were asking for how to start mains for a symmetrical string bed tension. I’ve found never getting more than 1 main ahead worked better for me From a SINGLE experiment. Maybe if I used a 3-6 method (as many professional tour stringers do) and allowed the string bed to relax before I measured frequency it would still give as symmetrical results. I don’t know I’m sure though it would not matter past long as you stay consistent. In a situation where there are many stringer all stringers should use the same methods and procedures.
 
Irvin said:
@malagabee remember you were asking for how to start mains for a symmetrical string bed tension. I’ve found never getting more than 1 main ahead worked better for me From a SINGLE experiment. Maybe if I used a 3-6 method (as many professional tour stringers do) and allowed the string bed to relax before I measured frequency it would still give as symmetrical results. I don’t know I’m sure though it would not matter past long as you stay consistent. In a situation where there are many stringer all stringers should use the same methods and procedures.
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Hi Irvin, just realized u r the guru himself I've been watching and learning so much from on YT. This is surreal. I will have to play with my machine some more to test different methods out to see which one gives me the most symmetrical tension bed. Can't stand when one side is higher than the other or vise versa cuz when the ball strikes the sweet spot strings will move/stretch and the tensions can even themselves out a bit but if they were off too much to begin with things won't even out to the point that 1MR match 1ML and 2MR matches 2ML, etc.

I guess I was lucky I was able to clamp the 2MR using the left clamp like the video showed without the billiard support at 12/6 getting in the way since the billiards weren't sticking out far on mine.

It's interesting when they designed these newer machines with clamps that glide in the circular patterned rails it takes out this limitation as long as you have a 3rd clamp or a starting clamp in place before using a clamp on the opposite side. If you see the video description he mentioned it's how Ron Yu from P1 does it. Not sure how true that is but the YTber is a pro who has strung at tournaments also.
 
When stringing I try to go for what I believe is the best option for the least distortion of the racket especially with a 2 point mount. IMO the method that gives to the least distortion will give you the most symmetrical tension. And when you can tension the like numbered main one after another there is less time for the strings to relax. It also makes for much less turning of the turntable as I’m going in a CCW direction after the 4 center mains.
 
Wes said:
First, don't necessarily believe everything you read.
Secondly, that fellow is a former poster on this forum... and has been banned. :whistle:
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I don't and thus I'm checking with more experienced folks. So far I find it funny that I've answered all your questions to me lol. Where are your videos?
 
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Irvin said:
When stringing I try to go for what I believe is the best option for the least distortion of the racket especially with a 2 point mount. IMO the method that gives to the least distortion will give you the most symmetrical tension. And when you can tension the like numbered main one after another there is less time for the strings to relax. It also makes for much less turning of the turntable as I’m going in a CCW direction after the 4 center mains.
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I will go for that. Thank you very much for all your advise and info.
 
You guys know I am fairly new so keep that in mind (I think about 5 or so years). Anyway, I use the starting clamp inside the hoop on the second from center main as in post 6 or Irvin in 12. I have seen posts expressing concern about placing a starting clamp on string inside the hoop especially softer string like multi or gut. I have never had reports of issues from this as far as impacting string durability. Moreover, most racquets I string are 8 in the throat and thus the clamp will be at the bottom of the hoop where I would think a decent strike of the ball would not be desirable and hopefully infrequent. I also have not had issues for 6 mains in throat racquets where the clamp is at the tip.

I alternate so I am never more than 1 string ahead and I think I get good symmetry doing this.

One thing I have been wondering about is why would I read about concerns using a clamp as I do inside the hoop but often see people backing up their fixed clamp with a starting clamp when starting their mains as I would think this would be worse?

Typically, when I see people backing up with a starting clamp it is even more toward the center of the racquet face and more likely to see more contact with the potential for breakage.
 
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LOBALOT said:
One thing I have been wondering about is why would I read about concerns using a clamp as I do inside the hoop but often see people backing up their fixed clamp with a starting clamp when starting their mains as I would think this would be worse?
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If I understand your question correctly, I think the answer is putting a starting clamp on/abutting the grommet and pulling tension. The concern is damage to the grommet. I have not been terribly impressed with Yonex grommets. They certainly don't hold up as well as say Volkl grommets. So, taking care of the grommets is a concern.
 
Rabbit said:
If I understand your question correctly, I think the answer is putting a starting clamp on/abutting the grommet and pulling tension. The concern is damage to the grommet. I have not been terribly impressed with Yonex grommets. They certainly don't hold up as well as say Volkl grommets. So, taking care of the grommets is a concern.
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Thanks Rabbit. I use a clothes pin between the clamp and the inside of the hoop to protect the grommet. The concern I have seen is around crushing the string with the clamp but perhaps that is no longer a concern to stringers.

I do worry about the grommet getting damaged. So far I have not had an issue but Pure Aero and Volkl C10 grommets can be wide so it has crossed my mind when stringing them.
 
@malagabee I always pluck my mains to test for consistency and usually there's a difference of less than a semi-tone between the right and left sides. I use the 'Ron Yu method' to start, clamping 2L inside the hoop with a starting clamp (and clothespin,) then pull 1L, 1R, 2R, 2L, etc.

I searched the web for a pic of Ron starting a racket and saw he did this, so I'm comfortable calling it that.

There might be methods that provide better consistency between the right and left sides, but the semi-tone is within the noise of my tension readings so I feel it's close enough to be worth the ease and simplicity of the chosen starting method.
 
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Joe Garfield said:
@malagabee I always pluck my mains to test for consistency and usually there's a difference of less than a semi-tone between the right and left sides. I use the 'Ron Yu method' to start, clamping 2L inside the hoop with a starting clamp (and clothespin,) then pull 1L, 1R, 2R, 2L, etc.

I searched the web for a pic of Ron starting a racket and saw he did this, so I'm comfortable calling it that.

There might be methods that provide better consistency between the right and left sides, but the semi-tone is within the noise of my tension readings so I feel it's close enough to be worth the ease and simplicity of the chosen starting method.
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Very interesting. Ya I pluck to hear the tones and even trying to even them out by pressing with my thumb to lower the high ones while increasing the adjacent one at the same time. Thanks for chiming in.
 
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Irvin said:
I believe that was @uk_skippy that introduced that method, he also used a leather pad between the starting clamp and the frame. But IMO it’s not that big of a deal who introduced it.
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am1899 said:
@Irvin Just for clarity, I said that I believe drakulie had introduced the method here - on ttw - by way of the YT video he made. But I am aware that Paul also uses and perhaps developed this method. (y)
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I'm not sure who introduced it to tt; but it is an old school method used by Babolat stringing teams when they were using machines with a single (mono) fixed clamp. And that would predate, probably the internet as we know it.
 
@malagabee one of the biggest issues you are going to encounter measuring symmetrical tensions in the mains is drawback. When you tension a main string, clamp it, and release the tensioner the clamp pulls back. The more that clamp pulls back the greater the tension loss will be in the main string being clamped. If the clamp draws back 2-3 mm my guess is you will lose ~10 lbs of tension with average tennis tensions. Then you pull the next main adjacent to that clamp. You can now expect tension loss in that last tensioned and clamped main because of drawback. Think of it like you are double pulling 2 main strings in series Because of the 180 turn. You’re never going to get the same tension on both strings. Don’t try to over think this and out think yourself.

EDIT: In the video you posted in post #6 I would consider the drawback (and tension loss) to be excessive and I would be trying to find out how to resolve it.
 
Irvin said:
EDIT: In the video you posted in post #6 I would consider the drawback (and tension loss) to be excessive and I would be trying to find out how to resolve it.
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I completely disagree. I don't think the clamp movement is excessive nor do I think it has a negative affect on the overall string job.[/USER][/QUOTE]
 
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Rabbit said:
I completely disagree. I don’t think the clamp movement is excessive nor do I think it has a negative effect on the overall string job.
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He may as well be stringing with a LO machine. I’m not saying you will get a negative string job with a LO just a lower DT. If he wants a higher DT all he has to do is raise the tension. I would prefer a higher DT with a lower tension.
 
@Irvin I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. There is nothing in the video that shows "excessive" drawback to the tune of a ten pound tension loss, IMO. The ten pounds number seems to be wholly a guess as well. The stringing machine is a quality build, a Babolat Racquet Station, and the clamps and bases are solid. I also don't know how you can state there's a 10 pound loss. The clamp movement after releasing tension looks to be normal to me. @Richard Parnell @uk_skippy @RJYU @Wes @struggle @g4driver @jim e ? Any of you see "excessive" drawback on that machine?

I also don't get the comment that he might as well be stringing on a lockout machine. Seems to be denigrating the Racquet Station. I can tell you from 1st hand experience, with a Neos 1000 with new clamps, there is zero drawback and it's a lockout.
 
@Rabbit In your opinion how far do you think the clamps are drawing back? Watch at about 2 minutes. It looks like the clamp draws back the width of the 1st tooth.

EDIT: On my Babolat (and your’s) that’s about 7 mm Or a little over 1/4”. He may as well be using flying clamps.
 
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Any drawback i saw was eliminated on the next pull.

Not sure where this random number of 10 pounds comes from.

Oh, wait. Yes, actually i do.
 
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