Starting out: what level to compete at?

amlemus

Rookie
I haven't played any kind of official match against anyone with an NTRP, so when my local summer league asks me what my rating is, do I just default to 2.5 even though I feel like I'm higher than that? I realize this might be a dumb question, but gauging what my level is seems to be elusive.

Background: I've just recently started getting into the game at 34 y/o (I took classes when I was very young but nothing since I was 12). After taking a few classes/lessons and a lot of hitting sessions with the ball machine, I'm feeling confident to start competing at some level. I'm fairly athletic/quick (despite my 5'11"/210lb frame) after playing soccer and endurance multisport for the past two decades. I can get some pace and spin behind my lefty forehand and OHBH with fair consistency.

Side note: the community here on TT sounds absolutely amazing. Thank you all for sharing all of your knowledge and experience here with us newbies!

Cheers,

Mike
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
My $0.02, you may be happiest starting at 3.0, with the likelihood of being able to move up relatively quickly.

Find someone with a rating and play against them. Can make an informed decision fairly easily based on that kind of result.

Lastly, are there more 3.0 or 3.5 teams that need players at your club? pick the one that needs players so that you get more match time!
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
You are technically not a 2.5 nor a 3.0. Depending on the team you are looking at, try hitting with some of their players. If you can handle their heavy paced balls and they can handle yours, that means you would fit in. If not, then you would need to 'move' up or down. Google 'criteria for NTRP' and see where you think you fit. The criteria are vague since only match play can determine if you are at the appropriate level.
 

amlemus

Rookie
My $0.02, you may be happiest starting at 3.0, with the likelihood of being able to move up relatively quickly.

Find someone with a rating and play against them. Can make an informed decision fairly easily based on that kind of result.

Lastly, are there more 3.0 or 3.5 teams that need players at your club? pick the one that needs players so that you get more match time!

I'm looking to get in with a local team at the 3.0-3.5 level at the moment. I'll report back once I get some matches under my belt. Thanks for the support!
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I haven't played any kind of official match against anyone with an NTRP, so when my local summer league asks me what my rating is, do I just default to 2.5 even though I feel like I'm higher than that? I realize this might be a dumb question, but gauging what my level is seems to be elusive.

Go on YouTube and search for "tennis ntrp X", where X is a given NTRP level. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tennis+ntrp+3.5

Watch the examples and gauge where you fit in. Remember that everything looks slower on video.

Also, compare yourself to the descriptions here:

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/USTA_Import/USTA/dps/doc_13_7372.pdf

2.5 seems too low. Without seeing any video, I'd say 3.0 if you are conservative and 3.5 if you are aggressive. Probably the most important thing is to maximize your exposure to the league so you can establish a network of hitting partners. If you are easy to get along with, flexible, and reliable, you'll find yourself in demand.
 

NTRPolice

Hall of Fame
2.5 is probably too low. 3.0, there may not be much activity in your area. If you're looking for game time, 3.5 is probably the lowest level and highest probability of finding a team and getting a lot of matches.

If you observe 3.5's and 4.0's on Youtube, they dont look that impressive. However, most are a lot better than appear.

Remember, moving up is easy. All it takes is the click of a button. Moving down requires an season of losing to even attempt it. If you're willing to take the risk, try self rating at 3.5.

The Self-rate questionnaire is a little vague. Be very careful how you answer the questions. I'm not saying to lie, but if you answer them very generously, you could end up self rating way higher than you belong and the automatic appeal will only bring you .5 NTRP lower.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
I haven't played any kind of official match against anyone with an NTRP, so when my local summer league asks me what my rating is, do I just default to 2.5 even though I feel like I'm higher than that? I realize this might be a dumb question, but gauging what my level is seems to be elusive.

Background: I've just recently started getting into the game at 34 y/o (I took classes when I was very young but nothing since I was 12). After taking a few classes/lessons and a lot of hitting sessions with the ball machine, I'm feeling confident to start competing at some level. I'm fairly athletic/quick (despite my 5'11"/210lb frame) after playing soccer and endurance multisport for the past two decades. I can get some pace and spin behind my lefty forehand and OHBH with fair consistency.

Side note: the community here on TT sounds absolutely amazing. Thank you all for sharing all of your knowledge and experience here with us newbies!

Cheers,

Mike

Go 3.5 and enjoy losing to a bunch of sandbagging losers like the rest of us!
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Haha I'm sure I'll get my fair share of humble pie this year. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't feel bad. Below the 4.0 level is full of loser pushers/junkballers who sandbag their rating and live to play garbage tennis. They live a sad existence, and we must work on exterminating them from the courts, but it is tough going.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
If I were you, I'd self rate at 3.0 and join a 3.5 team. If you play a couple matches at 3.5 and feel overwhelmed, just drop down to a 3.0 team. You can only do this if you originally self-rate at 3.0, though.
 

amlemus

Rookie
Don't feel bad. Below the 4.0 level is full of loser pushers/junkballers who sandbag their rating and live to play garbage tennis. They live a sad existence, and we must work on exterminating them from the courts, but it is tough going.

Well we all have to start/stay somewhere, I guess. I'm hoping to improve quickly and get to some higher level stuff. Playing pushers/junkballers (I'm sure I'll provide some of my own in response) will be a good way to learn how to adapt on the fly and win ugly if I have to. I'm sure we'd all like to play the game as it was meant to be played. That's the camp I'm aiming to be in!


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OrangePower

Legend
Don't feel bad. Below the 4.0 level is full of loser pushers/junkballers who sandbag their rating and live to play garbage tennis. They live a sad existence, and we must work on exterminating them from the courts, but it is tough going.
Ouch, methinks someone got a beat down from a pusher today... :)
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Don't feel bad. Below the 4.0 level is full of loser pushers/junkballers who sandbag their rating and live to play garbage tennis. They live a sad existence, and we must work on exterminating them from the courts, but it is tough going.

Wow ... you are certainly the one to hang out with at the club. What an absolute ray of sunshine :sarcasm !

It is this type of attitude that puts people off from even trying the sport, believing they are going to be looked down on by those "better" than them. Disgraceful.

And if you come back with "I was just making a joke" .... you have plenty of posts littered across this board that say the exact same arrogant and ignorant thing.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Wow ... you are certainly the one to hang out with at the club. What an absolute ray of sunshine :sarcasm !

It is this type of attitude that puts people off from even trying the sport, believing they are going to be looked down on by those "better" than them. Disgraceful.

And if you come back with "I was just making a joke" .... you have plenty of posts littered across this board that say the exact same arrogant and ignorant thing.

New players should be 2.5 or 3.0 at best.

I'm not making a joke. Most people in the range I'm talking about are pathetic hacks. But it's cool, they help fund our sport by buying garbage racquets.
 

rchjr2091

Semi-Pro
Self rate as a 3.0 ... it's a good level to start at. You can play up to 3.5 and if your playing well then the combo teams will try to recruit you and you end up meeting some quality players.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
New players should be 2.5 or 3.0 at best.

I'm not making a joke. Most people in the range I'm talking about are pathetic hacks. But it's cool, they help fund our sport by buying garbage racquets.


It is one thing to call someone a hack ... it is another to refer to them as pathetic. Given your other post about purposely throwing a match to make someone else's day miserable ... well I hope I never have to play with, against or around someone with your attitude.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
just remember there is a TREMENDOUS diff. between how well you (or anyone) hits on a ball machine or even rallying for fun vs. how your strokes will collapse
(relatively speaking) the first time you play an actual match or enter an actual tournament or play for a team.

Don't beat yourself up. playing in competition vs. just hitting is a very different thing.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
just remember there is a TREMENDOUS diff. between how well you (or anyone) hits on a ball machine or even rallying for fun vs. how your strokes will collapse
(relatively speaking) the first time you play an actual match or enter an actual tournament or play for a team.

Don't beat yourself up. playing in competition vs. just hitting is a very different thing.
THIS.
I have pretty decent strokes and serves are respectable. But when faced with opponents of varying skill and style in an organized match, it can be challenging to maintain consistent play. Serves you swear by start to collapse and ground strokes that are money shots go long or into the net.

Been playing in club flights for a couple months now. Took me like 4 weeks to stop sucking and play consistently. Starting winning and moving up courts and holding all my service games. Then I got drafted to play on our club USTA match. Folded like a deck of cards... Couldn't hit a damn thing:
My partner that I've played with before is my weakest teammate. He has a weak baseline and ok net. I'm stronger baseline and not so good at net. He has a respectable first serve if it goes in (flat and fast), but his 2nd is just a way slower version of it. My serves are spinny 2nd serves which at this level does pretty good damage, but just was not going in. Our opponent couldn't be any more different. One guy is an ex-table tennis champ that chokes up on his racket like he's playing racquetball. He says he's playing ping pong on a tennis court and has whicked lefty-slice spin. His partner plays like a typical 3.0, but his serves are like 4.0. They are harder to return than my teenage son's.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Self rate as a 3.0 ... it's a good level to start at. You can play up to 3.5 and if your playing well then the combo teams will try to recruit you and you end up meeting some quality players.
Completely agree. Even if you self-rate at 2.5 there likely aren't many 2.5 men's teams. Self rate at 3.0 and you can always play up. Seriously doubt you'd be competitive at 4.0 this quickly.
 

amlemus

Rookie
THIS.
I have pretty decent strokes and serves are respectable. But when faced with opponents of varying skill and style in an organized match, it can be challenging to maintain consistent play. Serves you swear by start to collapse and ground strokes that are money shots go long or into the net.

Been playing in club flights for a couple months now. Took me like 4 weeks to stop sucking and play consistently. Starting winning and moving up courts and holding all my service games. Then I got drafted to play on our club USTA match. Folded like a deck of cards... Couldn't hit a damn thing:
My partner that I've played with before is my weakest teammate. He has a weak baseline and ok net. I'm stronger baseline and not so good at net. He has a respectable first serve if it goes in (flat and fast), but his 2nd is just a way slower version of it. My serves are spinny 2nd serves which at this level does pretty good damage, but just was not going in. Our opponent couldn't be any more different. One guy is an ex-table tennis champ that chokes up on his racket like he's playing racquetball. He says he's playing ping pong on a tennis court and has whicked lefty-slice spin. His partner plays like a typical 3.0, but his serves are like 4.0. They are harder to return than my teenage son's.

I hear ya. I'll report back once I get some matches under my belt. I've played a couple sets against a hitting partner and have taken them 0s and 1s but that's mostly due to a lot of unforced errors on his part (he's big on power, not on control). I think the leagues will give a much better barometer of where I'm at.


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ZirkusAffe

Semi-Pro
I hear ya. I'll report back once I get some matches under my belt. I've played a couple sets against a hitting partner and have taken them 0s and 1s but that's mostly due to a lot of unforced errors on his part (he's big on power, not on control). I think the leagues will give a much better barometer of where I'm at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2.5 (men) is essentially someone standing in front of a line-up with a Hammer, Toaster, Golf Club, Bag of leaves, and a Tennis Racquet and someone saying 'ok which one do you think you hit a tennis ball with?'.. or really just started and never played tennis even for fun. If you say 'I have a decent FH and BH you'll have fun at 3.0 or it will get old quick and you'll be hungry to play more 3.5.. most 3.0's don't have a bh, probably a good majority of 3.5's hide that they still don't have a backhand.
 

ZirkusAffe

Semi-Pro
am I lying? maybe truth stretching... ever hear 'hit to my BH, I need to practice it'... there are a few guys that have sweet 2hbh's. My partner in dubs is a young athletic dude successful singles player but @ 4.0 doesn't have a bh still crushes people. I don't how people get by without one but they do and some do it well. Its why I have to play deuce side because we're both lefties then when they swing him out wide he has the alley and his FH so he sits on it exclusively, I'm left out to dry (pun intended) sitting on my BH out wide.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
am I lying? maybe truth stretching... ever hear 'hit to my BH, I need to practice it'... there are a few guys that have sweet 2hbh's. My partner in dubs is a young athletic dude successful singles player but @ 4.0 doesn't have a bh still crushes people. I don't how people get by without one but they do and some do it well. Its why I have to play deuce side because we're both lefties then when they swing him out wide he has the alley and his FH so he sits on it exclusively, I'm left out to dry (pun intended) sitting on my BH out wide.
Truth is funnier than fiction. I find if I play deuce side (righty) I can play an entire dubs match while hitting like 3 BH...unless I'm facing a lefty server.

I've been playing the ad side lately to work on my BH. Plus my deuce net game is horrible. Can't buy a poach.
 

ZirkusAffe

Semi-Pro
Truth is funnier than fiction. I find if I play deuce side (righty) I can play an entire dubs match while hitting like 3 BH...unless I'm facing a lefty server.

I've been playing the ad side lately to work on my BH. Plus my deuce net game is horrible. Can't buy a poach.
yep, I hit majority all bh on returns and usually any xcourt shot is bh or DTL playing deuce as a lefty vs two righties. Took a long time to get comfortable playing almost exclusive BH and not forcing myself to run around it. Also I like to slice which can be a problem with an aggressive net player going x court they can read and get a good jump on picking it off but I've finally learned how to take care of ball height and angle (if I play too casual I could get my partner killed at the net slicing returns). There are matches when I maybe hit only like 8-10 fh's from the baseline, but I rush n crush and get at least inside service line as much as possible. Some righties serve a lot of T serves then I have to return FH although it can be a complete drought for me on fh which is usually is.
 

Turbo-87

G.O.A.T.
I was in the same position as the OP when I first started. I played senior year of high school for a lark and then didn't play again until I was 39. I started out at self rated 3.5 just because I had no idea and I won my first tournament. If I were the OP with athleticism, 3.5 is where I'd start. There is such a mix of people there that it will be rewarding.
 

amlemus

Rookie
I was in the same position as the OP when I first started. I played senior year of high school for a lark and then didn't play again until I was 39. I started out at self rated 3.5 just because I had no idea and I won my first tournament. If I were the OP with athleticism, 3.5 is where I'd start. There is such a mix of people there that it will be rewarding.


That's pretty much where I'm at, less the tournament win of course :).
 

kylebarendrick

Professional
The only way to gauge your level is to play against people with ratings (preferably computer ratings). Saying you can hit "pace and spin" and have "fair" consistency are meaningless, because those items can only really be assessed relative to your level and with some pressure of competition. A dominant forehand at 3.5 is a joke at 4.5. If I were you, I'd look for a team at 3.0 or 3.5 and contact the captain for a tryout or practice. Failing that, I'd look for a local ladder or enter a couple of tournaments, probably starting at 3.0. As others have said, it is much easier to play up than down if you find 3.0 too easy.
 

OrangePower

Legend
The only way to gauge your level is to play against people with ratings (preferably computer ratings). Saying you can hit "pace and spin" and have "fair" consistency are meaningless, because those items can only really be assessed relative to your level and with some pressure of competition. A dominant forehand at 3.5 is a joke at 4.5. If I were you, I'd look for a team at 3.0 or 3.5 and contact the captain for a tryout or practice. Failing that, I'd look for a local ladder or enter a couple of tournaments, probably starting at 3.0. As others have said, it is much easier to play up than down if you find 3.0 too easy.
Agree - the only way to really know is to play with some computer rated players.

Go to a local club, say you are potentially interested in joining and are specifically interested in USTA play. They will likely hook you up with some of their players and give you a guest pass to check things out. Even if you have no intention of joining a club this will at least let you know where you're at. I do think that joining a club can be very beneficial when you are just starting out and don't already have a network of practice partners.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
The only way to gauge your level is to play against people with ratings (preferably computer ratings). Saying you can hit "pace and spin" and have "fair" consistency are meaningless, because those items can only really be assessed relative to your level and with some pressure of competition. A dominant forehand at 3.5 is a joke at 4.5. If I were you, I'd look for a team at 3.0 or 3.5 and contact the captain for a tryout or practice. Failing that, I'd look for a local ladder or enter a couple of tournaments, probably starting at 3.0. As others have said, it is much easier to play up than down if you find 3.0 too easy.
Totally agree except I'd recommend rating at 3.0 and playing up at 3.5 for a couple matches first. Test yourself first, and if you play two or three matches and you're getting blown out, then you still have the back door to move down if you self-rated down, as opposed to playing down first and moving up if it's too easy.
 

kylebarendrick

Professional
Totally agree except I'd recommend rating at 3.0 and playing up at 3.5 for a couple matches first. Test yourself first, and if you play two or three matches and you're getting blown out, then you still have the back door to move down if you self-rated down, as opposed to playing down first and moving up if it's too easy.
Yep, that's what I meant but you said it more clearly. Self rate at 3.0 and try playing matches at 3.5. Stay there if the competition is right and drop back to 3.0 if it is too tough.

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kingcheetah

Hall of Fame
I think it varies by district-- in my area many of the 3.5 players should be at 3.0 or lower-- you also get sandbaggers at 4.0... but there could be a totally different situation elsewhere.
 

awjack

New User
I think it varies by district-- in my area many of the 3.5 players should be at 3.0 or lower-- you also get sandbaggers at 4.0... but there could be a totally different situation elsewhere.
I would like to see a full reset in our area. We have a bigger problem with people not getting moved down. You could move the bottom 40% down and those guys would all lose to the top 40% of the lower level. Perhaps that is the goal.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Totally agree except I'd recommend rating at 3.0 and playing up at 3.5 for a couple matches first. Test yourself first, and if you play two or three matches and you're getting blown out, then you still have the back door to move down if you self-rated down, as opposed to playing down first and moving up if it's too easy.
Hm, maybe I should have just stuck with the 2.5 answer the questions the self rating gave me rather than entering in 3.0?;) I thought I could play 3.5. But just not consistent enough in a pressure setting with varying techniques thrown at me. Basically, not enough experience...
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
If you are male which I hope you are given your height and weight you may have a difficult time finding male 2.5 leagues. In my city of 250,000+ the lowest male USTA or local league (BATA) teams are 3.0. Based on your description of yourself and the fact you are actively working on your game I think you could self rate at 3.0 and probably get bumped in a season or self rate at 3.5 and take your chances.
 

ZirkusAffe

Semi-Pro
That's pretty much where I'm at, less the tournament win of course :).
If you rate 3.0 you can still play 3.0 and 3.5 simultaneously double your fun, doublemint gum.. You can also play both in sectionals but not nationals if lightning struck twice for both teams going that far. Think of it as 3.0 confidence booster/3.5 skills/consistency booster.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
My tennis club is run by Elo equation. Everyone is rated.

Go back to Goldilocks and the 3 Bears. I'll pit you against the average player. Count like ping-pong to 21. How many points you win or lose by will determine your rating, counting each point as if it is a game. Simple. After 1 game, I can determine your exact level. It's like trying on pants. You go to the medium one first, then depending on whether it is too small or too big, you go to another one.

http://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
My tennis club is run by Elo equation. Everyone is rated.

Go back to Goldilocks and the 3 Bears. I'll pit you against the average player. Count like ping-pong to 21. How many points you win or lose by will determine your rating, counting each point as if it is a game. Simple. After 1 game, I can determine your exact level. It's like trying on pants. You go to the medium one first, then depending on whether it is too small or too big, you go to another one.

http://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm

Technically, this is called the bisection method or the dichotomy method in mathematics.
 
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