Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
strange choices for the women. a 16-2 edge for Henin & 20-3 for Seles really aren't close to being the most lopsided rivalry in womens tennis. Navratilova was 33-1 vs Garrison. 39-3 vs Shriver.
Stats for 1977 Wimbledon SF (Borg-Gerulaitis)
- Thread starter krosero
- Start date
strange choices for the women. a 16-2 edge for Henin & 20-3 for Seles really aren't close to being the most lopsided rivalry in womens tennis. Navratilova was 33-1 vs Garrison. 39-3 vs Shriver.
True, but he did serve and volley quite a bit in the 77 final, just a bit less than 81. The 79 semi was the Wimbledon match versus Connors where Borg didn't serve and volley as much.
That's right. There as another break.
Borg was up a break in the third, 4-1 IIRC, it ended in a tiebreaker. That means Mac broke him twice. Still, twice in 4 sets with 2 tiebreakers isn't much.
Borg versus Federer. On occasion, I have seen Federer come in about as much as Borg would indoors or on a hard court. But I don't think he does it as much as he used to.
Someone brought up Connors/Gerulaitis, and it's true that after the 80s Masters match Gerulaitis beat him multiple times. Almost like that was a breakthrough match for him.
I think they just wanted some newer faces. Those numbers by Garrison and Shriver are practically approaching Kramer-Pails territory. You could throw Evert-Shriver in there too.
I saw this match a few days ago, and I don't think there were as many great rallies as in the '77 semifinal. The rate at which points ended with winners was more or less the same, going by our stats, but the rallies didn't seem as long in '81. Just a first impression.
Also I noticed Gerulaitis staying back on almost all his second serves. He did try to work his way in if he got a chance later in the rally, but in '77 he was going to net directly behind all of his serves.
So that might be one reason he kept his double-faults down in the '81 match: he wasn't following his second serves in and didn't need to take risks with them.
He served just two double-faults and they came in the tiebreaks, so they were due to nerves.
Anyway this '81 match is a little unusual because every other time we've done stats for Gerulaitis (77W, 79USO, 80RG), he's got a lot of double-faults and few aces, if any.
I was looking for your list, since we were talking about this rivalry in the other thread. You're right, one Connors victory is missing, which would make 16 wins in a row.
And their very first match was a Gerulaitis win, in December 1972 at the Clean Air Classic in New York (6-4, 4-6, 6-3).
When Vitas finally beat Connors again at the Masters, the AP and New York Times reported that it put him up 2-16 lifetime in the H2H, not including a victory by default in 1975.
That Masters tournament in Jan. 80 was really something of a breakthrough for Vitas. He lost to Borg again but beat McEnroe for the first time ever, and Connors for the first time in seven years.
In the calendar year 1980, Gerulaitis went 2-0 against Connors and 3-1 against McEnroe -- but 0-5 against Borg.
New stats for '77 semi
Borg won 70 of 93 points on 1st serve (75%) and 34 of 70 on 2nd (49%).
Gerulaitis won 70 of 93 points on 1st serve (75%) and 47 of 97 on 2nd (48%).
Remarkably, each man won 70 of 93 points on first serve.
Borg won 9 straight first-serve points toward the end of the match: ie, he won 14 of his last 16 points played on first serve. It might not be an exaggeration to say that his first serve pulled him through in the end.
Gerulaitis won 13 straight first-serve points to end the fourth set and start the fifth. He had also won 11 straight to end the first set and start the second.
Borg’s longest overall streak on serve was 7 straight points, early in the second set.
Gerulaitis’ longest overall streak on serve was 8 straight points, closing the second set.
During one stretch in the third set the two men won 14 straight points on serve between them, starting with the last 3 points of that marathon 22-point game served by Gerulaitis.
These are the numbers for success on serve when serves were successfully returned (ie, in rallies):
Borg 62% on first serve (38/61) and 46% on second (28/61).
Gerulaitis 64% on first serve (41/64) and 44% on second (32/73).
Borg served on 163 points and 38 serves did not come back: 23.3%
Gerulaitis served on 190 points and 44 serves did not come back: 23.2%
Borg drew return errors with 29 first serves, 6 second serves.
Gerulaitis drew return errors with 26 first serves, 14 second serves.
Gerulaitis drew more return errors than Borg did on second serve, partly because Vitas went to second serve 97 times in the match compared to Bjorn’s 70. Nevertheless, even with that factor taken into account Gerulaitis was more likely than Borg to draw return errors with second serves. That was due to two things: Borg stayed behind on most second serves while Vitas almost invariably came in; and the Gerulaitis second serve was just more potent than Borg’s, in my opinion.
But both men came in behind first serves, and Borg drew slightly more return errors from first serves than Gerulaitis did. Both men put 93 first serves into the box.
Borg drew 29 FH and 9 BH return errors.
Gerulaitis drew 19 FH and 21 BH return errors.
Gerulaitis came close to making all his BH returns in the second set. But he slapped FH returns long throughout the match, hitting them too flat or even apparently with underspin.
Gerulaitis followed all his serves in, with a few exceptions on second serve. Probably the most important was in the fifth set; serving up a break at 3-2, 40-30, he stayed back and came in on a later shot but was passed.
Borg won 70 of 93 points on 1st serve (75%) and 34 of 70 on 2nd (49%).
Gerulaitis won 70 of 93 points on 1st serve (75%) and 47 of 97 on 2nd (48%).
Remarkably, each man won 70 of 93 points on first serve.
Borg won 9 straight first-serve points toward the end of the match: ie, he won 14 of his last 16 points played on first serve. It might not be an exaggeration to say that his first serve pulled him through in the end.
Gerulaitis won 13 straight first-serve points to end the fourth set and start the fifth. He had also won 11 straight to end the first set and start the second.
Borg’s longest overall streak on serve was 7 straight points, early in the second set.
Gerulaitis’ longest overall streak on serve was 8 straight points, closing the second set.
During one stretch in the third set the two men won 14 straight points on serve between them, starting with the last 3 points of that marathon 22-point game served by Gerulaitis.
These are the numbers for success on serve when serves were successfully returned (ie, in rallies):
Borg 62% on first serve (38/61) and 46% on second (28/61).
Gerulaitis 64% on first serve (41/64) and 44% on second (32/73).
Borg served on 163 points and 38 serves did not come back: 23.3%
Gerulaitis served on 190 points and 44 serves did not come back: 23.2%
Borg drew return errors with 29 first serves, 6 second serves.
Gerulaitis drew return errors with 26 first serves, 14 second serves.
Gerulaitis drew more return errors than Borg did on second serve, partly because Vitas went to second serve 97 times in the match compared to Bjorn’s 70. Nevertheless, even with that factor taken into account Gerulaitis was more likely than Borg to draw return errors with second serves. That was due to two things: Borg stayed behind on most second serves while Vitas almost invariably came in; and the Gerulaitis second serve was just more potent than Borg’s, in my opinion.
But both men came in behind first serves, and Borg drew slightly more return errors from first serves than Gerulaitis did. Both men put 93 first serves into the box.
Borg drew 29 FH and 9 BH return errors.
Gerulaitis drew 19 FH and 21 BH return errors.
Gerulaitis came close to making all his BH returns in the second set. But he slapped FH returns long throughout the match, hitting them too flat or even apparently with underspin.
Gerulaitis followed all his serves in, with a few exceptions on second serve. Probably the most important was in the fifth set; serving up a break at 3-2, 40-30, he stayed back and came in on a later shot but was passed.
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
now that's interesting(considering the reputation Vitas' 2nd serve has)
Borg Number One
Legend
borg sf here was the 2nd one looking at the shadows on court..and the finals back then were still on saturday so.....
..was borg's sf on thurs or friday evening if the final was saturday at 2pm.
It was on a Thursday Goosehead after looking on Google. Borg mentioned during an interview that he got a call from Vitas at his hotel the next morning asking if he wanted to practice and Borg was very happy that he did. Nice gesture given that Vitas had just lost that close match.
http://www.tennis.com/players/2012/06/this-date-in-wimbledon-history-june-30/36940/#.UT4Ma9aTxVk (includes a video link to the match)
Legends of Wimbledon: Bjorn Borg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoB9KnKn-vA
Goosehead
Legend
thanks
a bit different to nowadays..thats a good quality vid too,and good old dan maskell and his minimalist commentary (andrew castle take note)..so thurs evening 5 sets then sat afty 5 sets..more evidence of borgs amazing stamina,
i know you know this but i didnt..noticed borg came from 2 sets down v mark edmudson in 2nd round :shock
..still had a bit of RG clay in his shoes.MUST WATCH ledgends of borg wimbledon vid..
v/o patrick allen did v/o for scary uk govt nuclear war 'Protect and Survive' public info films from early 80s..
"In the event of a nuclear attack, you and your family must take cover"..etc..but enough of cold war video nastys.
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Borg Number One
Legend
You're welcome and thanks Goosehead. Yes, love the commentary in the video. That Legends video is very cool. You'd enjoy it if you haven't seen it before. It gives you a real window into the placid enigma that is Bjorn Borg. That's a good point about the turnaround from the French Open to Wimbledon, but in 1977 Borg couldn't play the French Open due to his participation in WTT. It was a strange rule, but the Tour was turbulent in those days. Vilas took the '77 FO, but Borg won the 1978 FO with the loss of just 32 games total, beating Vilas handily in that final. Then, he went on to blitz Connors in the 1978 Wimbledon final in 3 sets, cementing his place as the top guy in the world and as the champ at both Wimbledon and the French Open.
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BringBackWood
Professional
Are they any other matches at Wimbledon or elsewhere with rallies (and frequency) like the ones in this match?
It required at least one of the players to not S&V on both serves, which most players did in those days on a fast court, not to mention both players on fire.
It required at least one of the players to not S&V on both serves, which most players did in those days on a fast court, not to mention both players on fire.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Then Mecir is the Fred Astaire of tennis.
BringBackWood
Professional
The 81 match is entertaining as well. I think Borg was more aggressive in 81, which possibly foreshortened the points, and Vitas' volleying wasn't as sharp as in 77, but still a great match. Borg's volleying was the best I've seen from him. There were still some 'rallies' up there with what we saw in 77. I think Vitas' ability to rally, and in particular his deep BH slice, is underrated.
It's also home to one of the most bizarre umpireing decisions I've seen. Borg's serve goes quite clearly long, but no call comes. Both players pretty much stop playing, with Borg tapping the ball over when he realises no call, but goes back to the serving position instead of going to his chair as it would be game. Vitas queries the umpire, who says play a let. When Vitas points out this makes no sense, the umpire quickly changes to 'no call, game to Borg'. He then seems to have no clue what the fuss is about, asking Vitas 'which line'? Borg isn't too happy about it and I am sure he would have said nothing if asked to play a second serve. Vitas got pretty annoyed by the end of the match because he was on the end of some rough calls.
It's also home to one of the most bizarre umpireing decisions I've seen. Borg's serve goes quite clearly long, but no call comes. Both players pretty much stop playing, with Borg tapping the ball over when he realises no call, but goes back to the serving position instead of going to his chair as it would be game. Vitas queries the umpire, who says play a let. When Vitas points out this makes no sense, the umpire quickly changes to 'no call, game to Borg'. He then seems to have no clue what the fuss is about, asking Vitas 'which line'? Borg isn't too happy about it and I am sure he would have said nothing if asked to play a second serve. Vitas got pretty annoyed by the end of the match because he was on the end of some rough calls.
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
I posted stats on the 81 match earlier in this thread. I agree Borg was pretty great at net in this one, he had more winners at net than off the ground which wasn't the case in 77.
As far as the poor umpiring, that sort of thing was the norm back then(I've posted about it so many times here, I probably sound like a broken record). You can see why so many players argued with umpires, they were pros dealing with amateurish officials. Pretty much anytime a non call happened the umpire just said play a let. One of Macs most famous blowups was in the 80 W SF when he hit an ace that was called out. Everyone knew it was an ace, so the umpire said play a let. Of course Mac understandably was upset and said it's either an ace or the ball was out you can't play a let in that situation. Mac revived a 'public warning,' whatever the hell that meant and it was front page news the next day. Probably every reporter and fan at the time thought Mac was just being a brat when in actuality he was 100% right. It took a long time for umpires(esp at Wimbledon they only used local officials for many years, not ATP umpires) to get their act together. It seemed like they were just making up rules as they went along because they weren't used to players questioning their decisions. Players were just expected to be 'gentlemen' and accept any inane decisions they came up with.
BringBackWood
Professional
Yeah thanks I know, that's actually what prompted me to seek it out. I think the Borg Gerulaitis was a very dynamic matchup (even if the H2H wasn't), perhaps moreso than Borg Mac because Vitas was more willing to rally with Borg. And of course his serve was much less of a factor than Mac's.
I don't think I agree with you about the umpiring. I think it had a charm to it that these old guys were officiating these young upstarts. I think it kept their feet on the ground to an extent; players behave more arrogarantly nowadays. Yes decisions were sometimes ludicrously poor but all in all I think line calling takes itself too seriously now. In my opinion tennis players should be gentlemen.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
What's often forgotten about Borg's 5 consecutive Wimbledons is the amount of 5 setters he won. Federer only had the 1 in 2007. Borg had 7.
1977: Edmondson, Vitas, Connors
1978: Amaya
1979: Amritraj, Tanner
1980: McEnroe
He was also down 1-2 in 4 of these to lesser guys Amritraj, Edmondson and Amaya. Very interesting stuff that certainly cements his Iceman legacy.
In 1981, Borg also came back 0-2 in the semifinal to beat Connors.
1977: Edmondson, Vitas, Connors
1978: Amaya
1979: Amritraj, Tanner
1980: McEnroe
He was also down 1-2 in 4 of these to lesser guys Amritraj, Edmondson and Amaya. Very interesting stuff that certainly cements his Iceman legacy.
In 1981, Borg also came back 0-2 in the semifinal to beat Connors.
JoelSandwich
Hall of Fame
I just watched this match for the first time
Awesome awesome match
Awesome awesome match
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