Stats for 1980 Wimbledon QF(Connors-Tanner)

[Moose Malloy]

Connors d Tanner 16 62 46 62 62

my stats
Connors served at 61%(74 of 121)
He won 54 of 74 pts on 1st serve(67.5%)
and 24 of 47 on 2nd(51%)
4 aces, 2 df's
drew 28 return errors
of the return errors Tanner made 6 were fh, 22 were bh
8 were on 2nd serve
6-15 on break points(Tanner made 1st serves on 8 of them)

Tanner served at 43.5%(61 of 140)
He won 39 of 61 pts on 1st serve(64%)
and 41 of 79 on 2nd(52%)
16 aces, 6 df's
drew 31 return errors
of the return errors Connors made, 6 were fh, 25 were bh
17 were on 2nd serve
4-9 on break points(Connors made 1st serves on 4 of them)

Connors had 37 non service winners: 6 fh, 17 bh, 9 fhv, 5 bhv
Tanner had 39: 2 fh, 10 bh, 14 fhv, 9 bhv, 4 ov

Connors was 57-83 at net(69%)
didn't take S&V stats, but it seemed like he was doing it a lot, on both 1st & 2nd serves

Connors had a pretty tough schedule at this rain plagued tournament. He completed his 4th round match the day before(while Tanner had the day off)
And his semifinal opponent McEnroe had the day off while he played Tanner(and the other men's semi - Borg-Gottfried - was actually played on the same day as this QF)
Commentators said it may have been fairer for the players if they just extended the tournament by another day.

Tanner was on the end of a rather absurd decision by the umpire early in the 5th set when he hit an ace that was called a fault & the umpire decided to just 'play a let' instead of awarding the point to Tanner. Commentators said that officiating was pretty poor throughout the tournament(what a surprise)

In the McEnroe-Connors SF, the same exact thing happened to Mac(hit an ace that was called a fault, the umpire gave him a 1st serve instead of the point) & commentators/fans/press acted like Mac was such a disgrace to the game even though he was 100% right. I guess because he didn't just let it go like Tanner did(though he was pretty upset as well & did explain to the umpire 'the rules') & asked for a referee in an extended conversation(which resulted in Mac getting a 'public warning' whatever that meant)

 

[heathcliff]

thanks moose for the info.
do you know how many times tanner aproached the net?

 

[kiki]

great, great match, one of the best grass court matches of the decade.

I remember Connors being interviewed after that classic..." When Roscoe is on a string like that, you just can sit and wait till it´s over...it is just bruttal"

 

[krosero]

Neil Amdur in the New York Times:

Yesterday, when Connors was asked how he could handle the demanding load of matches against the hard-serving Tanner, McEnroe and Borg on successive days, the 27-year-old American replied, “I’ll either be in great shape or dead.”

If Connors can pull off this feat, it would undoubtedly rank as the highlight of his already brilliant career. In McEnroe, however, he will face a far superior serve-and-volley executioner than the fifth-seeded Tanner, who at times today resembled a blacksmith trying to drive nails through concrete.

Tanner, a five-set loser to Borg in last year s final, served 16 aces and had numerous other service winners. But the most revealing statistic in an otherwise routine 2-hour-36-minute match was the shockingly poor percentage of first serves that were good – 60 of 140, or 43%. For a player whose game is almost solely constructed around his left-handed serve, the low percentage is akin to a fastball pitcher who strikes out five batters and walks 10.

In dropping the fourth set, for example, Tanner faulted 20 of 27 first serves. When Connors finally broke for a 4-2 lead in the fifth set, it came on his fifth break point -- a backhand return down the line that he had played from inside the baseline. On the four previous break points, Connors had netted backhand returns, leaning into them late from behind the baseline, in deference to Tanner’s serving power.
​

 

[krosero]

Connors served at 61%(74 of 121)
He won 54 of 74 pts on 1st serve(67.5%)
and 24 of 47 on 2nd(51%)

Tanner served at 43.5%(61 of 140)
He won 39 of 61 pts on 1st serve(64%)
and 41 of 79 on 2nd(52%)
16 aces, 6 df's

Surprised to see Tanner's 1st serve success at only 64%.

When he lost to Borg in five sets in '79, he won 79% of his 1st serve points, 46% on second serve. And his service percentage was 53%, much better than against Connors.

 

[krosero]

Connors served at 61%(74 of 121)
4 aces, 2 df's
drew 28 return errors

Tanner served at 43.5%(61 of 140)
16 aces, 6 df's
drew 31 return errors

Connors served on 121 points and 32 serves did not come back: 26%

Tanner served on 140 points and 47 serves did not come back: 34%

 

[Moose Malloy]

thanks moose for the info.
do you know how many times tanner aproached the net?

I had him at 69 of 125(55%)
He S&Ved on every 1st & 2nd serve

Surprised to see Tanner's 1st serve success at only 64%.

how was his 1st serve success when the return was put in play?

 

[McEnroeisanartist]

Connors d Tanner 16 62 46 62 62

my stats
Connors served at 61%(74 of 121)
He won 54 of 74 pts on 1st serve(67.5%)
and 24 of 47 on 2nd(51%)
4 aces, 2 df's
drew 28 return errors
of the return errors Tanner made 6 were fh, 22 were bh
8 were on 2nd serve
6-15 on break points(Tanner made 1st serves on 8 of them)

Tanner served at 43.5%(61 of 140)
He won 39 of 61 pts on 1st serve(64%)
and 41 of 79 on 2nd(52%)
16 aces, 6 df's
drew 31 return errors
of the return errors Connors made, 6 were fh, 25 were bh
17 were on 2nd serve
4-9 on break points(Connors made 1st serves on 4 of them)

Connors had 37 non service winners: 6 fh, 17 bh, 9 fhv, 5 bhv
Tanner had 39: 2 fh, 10 bh, 14 fhv, 9 bhv, 4 ov

Connors was 57-83 at net(69%)
didn't take S&V stats, but it seemed like he was doing it a lot, on both 1st & 2nd serves

Connors had a pretty tough schedule at this rain plagued tournament. He completed his 4th round match the day before(while Tanner had the day off)
And his semifinal opponent McEnroe had the day off while he played Tanner(and the other men's semi - Borg-Gottfried - was actually played on the same day as this QF)
Commentators said it may have been fairer for the players if they just extended the tournament by another day.

Tanner was on the end of a rather absurd decision by the umpire early in the 5th set when he hit an ace that was called a fault & the umpire decided to just 'play a let' instead of awarding the point to Tanner. Commentators said that officiating was pretty poor throughout the tournament(what a surprise)

In the McEnroe-Connors SF, the same exact thing happened to Mac(hit an ace that was called a fault, the umpire gave him a 1st serve instead of the point) & commentators/fans/press acted like Mac was such a disgrace to the game even though he was 100% right. I guess because he didn't just let it go like Tanner did(though he was pretty upset as well & did explain to the umpire 'the rules') & asked for a referee in an extended conversation(which resulted in Mac getting a 'public warning' whatever that meant)

yes, the classic 1980 Wimbledon semifinal match with Connors and McEnroe. The match was dreadfully boring, except for McEnroe's famous outburst in the first set. This was the same match where Connors finger pointed at McEnroe and said, "keep your mouth shut out there" at the changeover.

 

[jaggy]

Crazy left handed Americans, good ole Tarango came along later to add some sensibility.

 

[krosero]

how was his 1st serve success when the return was put in play?

He mostly got killed when his 1st serve was returned: won only 9 of 31 points (29%). When his second serve was returned he won 24 of 56 (43%).

Connors won 30 of 50 when his 1st serve was returned (60%), and 16 of 37 on his 2nd (43%).

Tanner was excellent, by contrast, when his 1st serve was returned by Borg in the '79 final: he won 28 of 47 such points, or 60%.

 

[krosero]

Tanner served at 43.5%(61 of 140)
drew 31 return errors
17 were on 2nd serve

This is also a little surprising, for Tanner to draw more return errors with his 2nd serve than with his first (17 vs 14). Of course Tanner not getting too many 1st serves into play had something to do with that, but still it's surprising considering the weapon his 1st serve was.

In the '79 final, Tanner drew 28 return errors with his first serve, only 9 with his second.

Connors failed to put Tanner's 1st serve back in play 30 times, but a majority of those were aces (16). He did really well when he could get a racquet on the ball.

Tanner made 61 first serves and 30 did not come back (16 aces, 14 return errors): 49%.
He served 79 second serves, and 17 did not come back: 21.5%

 

[krosero]

great, great match, one of the best grass court matches of the decade.

I remember Connors being interviewed after that classic..." When Roscoe is on a string like that, you just can sit and wait till it´s over...it is just bruttal"

Yup he was quoted saying something very similar.

AP article:

Tanner, beaten by Borg in last year’s final, began with a stream of booming services and aced Connors five times in the first set. But as the match went on, Connors returned service with increasing success.

With a 2-1 lead in sets, Tanner looked in good shape for victory. But he had a disastrous game, double faulting twice and netting an easy forehand volley to trail 0-2 in the fourth set -- and the match flowed away from him from then on.

Connors said afterward: “When Roscoe is getting his first serve in, like he was in the first set, you just wait and hope he will cool off. I just hoped he would make a mistake or two so I could get some shots in.”

Tanner’s service lost a lot of its sting later. He finished with 16 aces, but he also missed a lot with his first service and Connors slammed winners off his second deliveries.

Connors’ last vital breakthrough was at 4-2 in the final set. Tanner fended off four break points before Connors won the game with a spectacular backhand return down the line.​

Another AP story:

“After I lost the third set my returns were firm on both sides,” said Connors. “I was mixing it up well on my serves and turned my game around a bit to offset his tempo.

“In those last two sets I played as well as I’ve played in the tournament.”

Connors, winner of only one Wimbledon singles title, was unable to cope with Tanner’s whirlwind serve in the 19-minute first serve.

.... Midway through the third set of his 2 3/4-hour thriller with fifth-seeded Tanner, Connors clutched at his left knee and appeared in some pain.

“It’s OK now,” he said. “It scared me more than anything. I sort of twisted it, but it didn’t worry me after I’d played three or four points.”​

 

[Moose Malloy]

This is also a little surprising, for Tanner to draw more return errors with his 2nd serve than with his first (17 vs 14).

I thought Connors was going for a bit too much on the 2nd serve return. Most serves were directed to his backhand which produced a lot of winners & errors. most of the 17 bh winners he hit were return winners, not sure the exact breakdown. and he made 25 bh return errors as well.

"When Roscoe is getting his first serve in, like he was in the first set, you just wait and hope he will cool off."

Tanner served at 48% in the 1st set

 

[krosero]

I thought Connors was going for a bit too much on the 2nd serve return. Most serves were directed to his backhand which produced a lot of winners & errors. most of the 17 bh winners he hit were return winners, not sure the exact breakdown. and he made 25 bh return errors as well.

Yes and Borg's style of returning 2nd serves was somewhat less risky. Borg and Connors each had to face about 75 second serves from Tanner, with Connors making 17 errors, Borg only 9. That does seem to show Connors more eager to rip 2nd serves.

(Just going by the numbers and by what you're saying; I haven't seen this match myself yet.)

Borg made 11 clean return winners off Tanner's 2nd serve, presumably Connors got a similar or higher number.

 

[kiki]

Yup he was quoted saying something very similar.

AP article:

Tanner, beaten by Borg in last year’s final, began with a stream of booming services and aced Connors five times in the first set. But as the match went on, Connors returned service with increasing success.

With a 2-1 lead in sets, Tanner looked in good shape for victory. But he had a disastrous game, double faulting twice and netting an easy forehand volley to trail 0-2 in the fourth set -- and the match flowed away from him from then on.

Connors said afterward: “When Roscoe is getting his first serve in, like he was in the first set, you just wait and hope he will cool off. I just hoped he would make a mistake or two so I could get some shots in.”

Tanner’s service lost a lot of its sting later. He finished with 16 aces, but he also missed a lot with his first service and Connors slammed winners off his second deliveries.

Connors’ last vital breakthrough was at 4-2 in the final set. Tanner fended off four break points before Connors won the game with a spectacular backhand return down the line.​

Another AP story:

“After I lost the third set my returns were firm on both sides,” said Connors. “I was mixing it up well on my serves and turned my game around a bit to offset his tempo.

“In those last two sets I played as well as I’ve played in the tournament.”

Connors, winner of only one Wimbledon singles title, was unable to cope with Tanner’s whirlwind serve in the 19-minute first serve.

.... Midway through the third set of his 2 3/4-hour thriller with fifth-seeded Tanner, Connors clutched at his left knee and appeared in some pain.

“It’s OK now,” he said. “It scared me more than anything. I sort of twisted it, but it didn’t worry me after I’d played three or four points.”​

yes, that was my recall.Thanks for bringing it up.

BTW, Connrs vs tanner looks an underrated rivalry but was tremendously hot, a total contrast with the best server of the decade against the best returner.I remember those 1974 USO and 1975 Wimbly semis, the latter being regarded as the heavisest hitting ever seen on Centre Court.tanner got his revenge in 1976.
In 1979 they had a close and tight up Masters meeting that Connors won in the last set tb...and Tanner got his revenge a couple of years later in the same event, with the score being....7-6,6-7,7-6...Uncredible.

 

[krosero]

Tanner's loss to Connors here was during a two-year stretch when the only losses he had at GS events were five-set losses. In both '79 and '80 it took five sets to eliminate him at Wimb and USO.

In a way that's a compliment to him; on the other hand, in all of those matches he was up 2-0 or 2-1 in sets.

Here's a full list of Tanner's five-set losses in GS; I marked those in which he led 2-0 or 2-1 in sets.

1972 USO to Gorman
1975 RG to John Andrews (led 2-0 in sets)
1976 USO to Nastase (led 2-1)
1977 AO (Dec.) to Chris Lewis
1979 Wimb to Borg (led 2-1)
1979 USO to Gerulaitis (led 2-0)
1980 Wimb to Connors (led 2-1)
1980 USO to Borg (led 2-1)
1981 AO to Frawley (led 2-0)
1982 USO to Chip Hooper (led 2-1)
1983 USO to Kriek (led 2-0, losing the last three sets all in tiebreaks)

Tanner's career five-set record: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5042326&postcount=308

 

[Moose Malloy]

some stats on their 1975 SF at Wimbledon
Connors d Tanner 64, 61, 64

Connors won 91 pts, Tanner 66

Connors served at 67%(47 of 70)
He won 37 of 47 pts on 1st serve(79%)
and 16 of 23 on 2nd(69.5%)
4 aces, 1 df
drew 18 return errors(5 on 2nd serve)
5-12 on break points(Tanner made 1st serves on 7 of them)
32-41 on S&V attempts(78%), 43-54 overall at net(80%)

Tanner served at 50.5%(44 of 87)
He won 34 of 44 pts(77%)
and 15 of 43 on 2nd(35%)
12 aces(one on 2nd serve), 3 df's
drew 18 return errors(9 on 2nd serve)
1-1 on break points(Connors missed his first serve)
32-67 on S&V attempts(48%), 33-72 overall at net(46%)

non service winners:
Connors:30 - 10 fh, 8 bh, 5 fhv, 3 bhv, 4 ov
Tanner:16 - 3 fh, 1 bh, 4 fhv, 3 bhv, 5 ov

unforced errors:
Connors:8 - 4 bh, 4 volleys
Tanner:8 - 1 fh, 7 at net

of the return errors Connors made 13 were fh, 5 were bh. he made 6 fh return winners, none off the bh
of the return errors Tanner made 13 were fh, 5 were bh(weird coincidence) He made no return winners

just like in the 80 match the side where Connors made more return errors was the side where he also made more winners. In 80 it was the bh, in 75 it was the fh
of the 18 return errors Connors made 8 were in the first 2 sets, 10 in the 3rd, of the 9 2nd serve returns he missed, 6 were in the 3rd. I think he started relaxing a bit in the 3rd, with the match in hand, and took more wild swings on the return, resulting in more errors.

Connors numbers on serve were amazing. We've tracked a lot of matches from this era, and finding 2nd serve %'s above 60% is pretty rare. I think the highest 2 I've come across were both by McEnroe so to have the next highest after that be Connors is rather shocking to say the least. after he was broken in the 7th game of the first set, he didn't face a break point the rest of the match. In the 3rd set he only lost 3 points on serve. 31% of his serves were unreturned.
In the 1980 match, 26% of his serves were unreturned. Tanner's rate was the same in both matches, 34%.

Tanner served at a much higher % in this match compared to 1980(50.5 to 43.5), but this match was much more lopsided. In the 3rd set of this match(6-1) he actually had his highest %(58). Will have to check set by set numbers in 80 to compare, it did seem like when his serve % was lower, he troubled Connors more than when it was higher.

 

[NonP]

Tanner served at a much higher % in this match compared to 1980(50.5 to 43.5), but this match was much more lopsided. In the 3rd set of this match(6-1) he actually had his highest %(58). Will have to check set by set numbers in 80 to compare, it did seem like when his serve % was lower, he troubled Connors more than when it was higher.

Enhances Jimbo's rep as a counterpuncher. If you give him pace to work with he'll use it against you.

BTW I was looking at my Tanner database and found it surprising that we have so few unreturned %s for a server of his caliber and reputation. Here are all of the four matches I have with his %s, let me know if you've got more:

1975 Wim SF l Connors - 34.5% (30/87)
1979 Wim F l Borg - 31.1% (52/167)
1980 Wim QF l Connors - 33.6% (47/140)
1983 Wim QF l Lendl - 33.7% (33/98)

 

[Moose Malloy]

The numbers in the Lendl match were 43/98(43.9%)
Not many full tanner matches available, hope to do the 77 AO final sometime. Still 31-34% is pretty good for 70s matches. And all 4 of those matches were losses. his serve % was under 50 in 2 of the matches, wonder if that was common for him. Ashe had a very high % vs Connors in the 75 final by taking more off the serve(not many aces). I'm not sure Tanner would be capable of that, and it would be weird for him to stop going for aces with that kind of weapon. I read that he tried to emulate Ashe the next year and beat Connors in the qtrs, but he had 19 aces, which makes me skeptical there was really that much of a dramatic game plan change.

 

[krosero]

some stats on their 1975 SF at Wimbledon
Connors d Tanner 64, 61, 64

Connors won 91 pts, Tanner 66

Connors served at 67%(47 of 70)
He won 37 of 47 pts on 1st serve(79%)
and 16 of 23 on 2nd(69.5%)
4 aces, 1 df
drew 18 return errors(5 on 2nd serve)
5-12 on break points(Tanner made 1st serves on 7 of them)
32-41 on S&V attempts(78%), 43-54 overall at net(80%)

Tanner served at 50.5%(44 of 87)
He won 34 of 44 pts(77%)
and 15 of 43 on 2nd(35%)
12 aces(one on 2nd serve), 3 df's
drew 18 return errors(9 on 2nd serve)
1-1 on break points(Connors missed his first serve)
32-67 on S&V attempts(48%), 33-72 overall at net(46%)

non service winners:
Connors:30 - 10 fh, 8 bh, 5 fhv, 3 bhv, 4 ov
Tanner:16 - 3 fh, 1 bh, 4 fhv, 3 bhv, 5 ov

unforced errors:
Connors:8 - 4 bh, 4 volleys
Tanner:8 - 1 fh, 7 at net

of the return errors Connors made 13 were fh, 5 were bh. he made 6 fh return winners, none off the bh
of the return errors Tanner made 13 were fh, 5 were bh(weird coincidence) He made no return winners
just like in the 80 match the side where he made more return errors was the side where he also made more winners. In 80 it was the bh, in 75 it was the fh
of the 18 return errors Connors made 8 were in the first 2 sets, 10 in the 3rd, of the 9 2nd serve returns he missed, 6 were in the 3rd. I think he started relaxing a bit in the 3rd, with the match in hand, and took more wild swings on the return, resulting in more errors.

Connors numbers on serve were amazing. We've tracked a lot of matches from this era, and finding 2nd serve %'s above 60% is pretty rare. I think the highest 2 I've come across were both by McEnroe so to have the next highest after that be Connors is rather shocking to say the least. after he was broken in the 7th game of the first set, he didn't face a break point the rest of the match. In the 3rd set he only lost 3 points on serve. 40% of his serves were unreturned, in many matches with Borg he was only at around 10%. In the 1980 match, 26% of his serves were unreturned. Tanner's rate was the same in both matches, 34%.

Tanner served at a much higher % in this match compared to 1980(50.5 to 43.5), but this match was much more lopsided. In the 3rd set of this match(6-1) he actually had his highest %(58). Will have to check set by set numbers in 80 to compare, it did seem like when his serve % was lower, he troubled Connors more than when it was higher.

Great stats, Moose. Very surprising service numbers for Connors. This match is famous because of the power that Connors displayed -- but the match reports always talk about power on the groundstrokes. Your numbers put a whole new spin on it. I would think this has to count as one of Connors' greatest service performances. 31.4% of all serves unreturned; and 41 SV attempts with 32 successful. Even the 4 aces seems a bit unusual for his matches, especially for such a short one. He served only 1 ace in the long 5-set loss to Borg in '77, and again only 1 in their 5-setter in '81.

In this Tanner match Connors made 47 first serves; and he made a total of 41 SV attempts; the latter number is not broken down by first and second serve but I'm guessing (I haven't seen the match yet) that he didn't stay back on his first serve very much.

What happened to Jimmy's serve in later years, I wonder.

 

[pc1]

Great stats, Moose. Very surprising service numbers for Connors. This match is famous because of the power that Connors displayed -- but the match reports always talk about power on the groundstrokes. Your numbers put a whole new spin on it. I would think this has to count as one of Connors' greatest service performances. 31.4% of all serves unreturned; and 41 SV attempts with 32 successful. Even the 4 aces seems a bit unusual for his matches, especially for such a short one. He served only 1 ace in the long 5-set loss to Borg in '77, and again only 1 in their 5-setter in '81.

In this Tanner match Connors made 47 first serves; and he made a total of 41 SV attempts; the latter number is not broken down by first and second serve but I'm guessing (I haven't seen the match yet) that he didn't stay back on his first serve very much.

What happened to Jimmy's serve in later years, I wonder.

What I find interesting about the stats is despise the focus of the Connors return, Tanner still won 34 of 44 first serve points.

I always felt Connors' serve was underrated because he often felt he just had to spin it in and place it well to control the point. He didn't try that often to win points right off his serve.

 

[krosero]

1983 Wim QF l Lendl - 33.7% (33/98)

The numbers in the Lendl match were 43/98(43.9%)

You know what, my bad, I posted 33/98 in the Greatest Serves thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...erves-of-all-time.306579/page-14#post-6013215

I just added the numbers wrong or something, but that's probably where @NonP got that number.

I've edited that post now with the correct figure (43/98).

 

[krosero]

Ashe had a very high % vs Connors in the 75 final by taking more off the serve(not many aces). I'm not sure Tanner would be capable of that, and it would be weird for him to stop going for aces with that kind of weapon. I read that he tried to emulate Ashe the next year and beat Connors in the qtrs, but he had 19 aces, which makes me skeptical there was really that much of a dramatic game plan change.

In the '76 match the newspaper reports emphasize that Tanner's service return turned the match around; they say he started returning short and that this threw Connors off. A few reporters compared it to Ashe's tactics the year before.

On the serve, I'm sure Tanner was not taking off very much pace (like you said he still had 19 aces). But he did say he was varying the pace more than usual. Tanner told the reporters, "I have never served harder than I did today. But I also served intelligently. I tried to vary the pace of every serve. Against Jimmy, if you serve two the same he knocks the second one off—if he hasn’t already knocked off the first one.”

And in another article: "I think I had him confused with varying my service. Anytime you serve two serves alike he knocks the second one off. Last year he seemed able to step into it. Today he couldn’t.”

The New York Times reported that Tanner made 45 of 92 first serves in the '76 match (48.9%).

 

[pc1]

In the '76 match the newspaper reports emphasize that Tanner's service return turned the match around; they say he started returning short and that this threw Connors off. A few reporters compared it to Ashe's tactics the year before.

On the serve, I'm sure Tanner was not taking off very much pace (like you said he still had 19 aces). But he did say he was varying the pace more than usual. Tanner told the reporters, "I have never served harder than I did today. But I also served intelligently. I tried to vary the pace of every serve. Against Jimmy, if you serve two the same he knocks the second one off—if he hasn’t already knocked off the first one.”

And in another article: "I think I had him confused with varying my service. Anytime you serve two serves alike he knocks the second one off. Last year he seemed able to step into it. Today he couldn’t.”

The New York Times reported that Tanner made 45 of 92 first serves in the '76 match (48.9%).

It's funny Tanner said that. Newcombe said basically the same thing about serving to Connors, comparing him to a home run hitter in baseball I believe.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2013/01/australian_open_memories_jimmy.html

 

[krosero]

A few other stats I've calculated for that '75 match, using Moose's numbers.

Connors finished 21.7% of all the points in the match with his own clean winners or aces. In our database he surpassed that only twice: 1977 Wimb final vs. Borg (22.2%) and 1974 USO final vs. Rosewall (26.6%).

Connors’ Aggressive Margin was 45.2%
Tanner’s Aggressive Margin was 29.3%

That's the best we have for Connors so far.

This is our full list, from best to worst:

1975 W SF defeated Tanner 45.2%
1974 W final defeated Rosewall 40.7%
1987 W QF defeated Zivojinovic 35.7%
1984 W final lost to McEnroe 20.0%
1978 W final lost to Borg 19.8%
1975 W final lost to Ashe 15.7%
1983 USO final defeated Lendl 13.7%
1991 USO R16 defeated Krickstein 8.3%
1981 USO SF lost to Borg 8.1%
1987 USO SF lost to Lendl 8.0%
1987 W R16 defeated Pernfors 7.2%
1977 USO final lost to Vilas 6.6%
1985 RG SF lost to Lendl -6.6%
1982 RG QF lost to Higueras -16.0%

These AM's are not necessarily comparable because they use UE counts produced by various statisticians. I've bolded the matches for which the UE's were counted by myself or Moose; our UE counts tend to be similar.

For the Ashe match I've used Connors' UEs as counted by @Nadal_Power, see http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...she-connors-1975-w-final.192672/#post-7030762

 

[krosero]

What I find interesting about the stats is despise the focus of the Connors return, Tanner still won 34 of 44 first serve points.

That's 77% which is somewhat low for Tanner. Still, 77% is not bad.

Where Connors really hurt Tanner was on second serve. There Tanner won only 35% of his points.

And look at the points won when serves were successfully returned:

Connors 67% on first serve (20/30) and 65% on second (11/17).
Tanner 58% on first serve (14/24) and 17% on second (5/30).

Tanner had virtually no chance when Connors got back his second serve.

 

[krosero]

A couple of reports on Connors-Tanner '75:


http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...=owUuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=768,869470

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...rwqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5220,1510529

 

[krosero]

Moose, you mentioned a couple of stats for Mac on 2nd serve that were higher than Connors '75, which ones were they? I'll look myself for others.

 

[Moose Malloy]

The New York Times reported that Tanner made 45 of 92 first serves in the '76 match (48.9%)

Another low %. Guess it wasn't uncommon for Tanner, even in matches he won. Interesting pattern of serve %'s in the 80 match by set: 48(won set),62.5(lost), 33(won), 26(lost), 49(lost)

rewatched some of the 80 match, seemed like Tanner was getting more waist high and above volleys(in 75, seemed like he had to get pretty low on all volleys right after the serve)

Moose, you mentioned a couple of stats for Mac on 2nd serve that were higher than Connors '75, which ones were they?

1979 USO Final vs Vitas, 1979 DC vs Alexander. Think those were the highest we got for the 70s(along with Borg vs Pecci, but he only hit a few 2nd serves in that match)

 

[Moose Malloy]

the 75 match is now available, courtesy of @The Green Mile

now all I need is the 76 match to finish stats on all their matches at Wimbledon.

 

[The Green Mile]

the 75 match is now available, courtesy of @The Green Mile

now all I need is the 76 match to finish stats on all their matches at Wimbledon.

I haven't found the 76 match anywhere unfortunately...

 

[abmk]

just saw this match. (75 Wimbledon SF)

my comments/observations .....

1st set, starting, a few points Connors standing way behind to receive 1st serve, on the baseline for the 2nd serve., comes back in closer later on ....
one roundhouse smash by Connors ...roundhouse = going back and hitting the smash from around his head.

Connors SnV on 2nd serve at 3-3, 15-40 and gets broken by return+ nice lob combo ..great game by Tanner to break (returns+others)

fierce returning+great return game by Connors to break back immediately
another good return game to break at 4-5 Tanner to take the set ...Tanner not using his head/making correct decisions ...hits volley with easy pace back to Connors straight down the middle

at 0-1 2nd set, terrible overhead miss at baseline on 2nd point from Tanner..great hustle from Connors in both points
saves 2 BPs with clutch play, but otherwise bad game from Tanner and a pretty good one from Connors
Connors breaks

1-4 Tanner, 2 BPs, one saved with an unreturnable, another a nice low volley by Tanner for a change
Misses easy fh volley at deuce, but good volley against pacy return on BP, then bricks another easy volley at deuce and DF on BP while going for too much. 2 DFs in that game.

twice in the match - Connors ran behind from net due to lob and hit a bh passing winner

amazing pickup lob by Connors at 1-1 all ,3rd set, 40-30 Tanner

2-2 all,
Tanner was up 40-0.
At deuce, Tanner hits a weak smashes and Connors hits Fh powerfully for a winner, much more powerful than the smash
At BP, Tanner thought it was an ace ...no call from linesperson, but umpire calls fault late ...Tanner is upset. DFs

I think Tanner SnVed on all points.
Connors on majority of the points. (maybe even all of them)
Some excellent overheads by Connors.
Connors lucky with the net chords in the match a couple of times.

Connors all over the court, running like a rabbit, making great plays on the run/on the stretch ...even falling multiple times while running all over..
some precise passes from Connors, esp. of BH wing

terrific all round match by Connors -- returning was excellent, great movement &passing, very good at the net.
Not impressed by Tanner in this match ...apart from serve, his game looked like an inconsistent version of Ivanisevic (&Ivanisevic was inconsistent himself), with wrong choice of shots on multiple occasions. Only some occasional good shots. Serving was good, but could've varied it more - more variation of pace, spin and more

 

[jrepac]

Yes and Borg's style of returning 2nd serves was somewhat less risky. Borg and Connors each had to face about 75 second serves from Tanner, with Connors making 17 errors, Borg only 9. That does seem to show Connors more eager to rip 2nd serves.

(Just going by the numbers and by what you're saying; I haven't seen this match myself yet.)

Borg made 11 clean return winners off Tanner's 2nd serve, presumably Connors got a similar or higher number.

totally subjective, but I always thought JC was most effective returning hard hit 1st serves rather than on the 2nd serve. I always felt he got that explosive power off the 1st serve return, rather than having to generate his own on the 2nd and perhaps, over hit the ball.

 

[WCT]

Against someone who stayed back, yes. Not s/v players, though. I don't think he returned someone like Mcenroe's first serve better than his second.

With someone like Lendl I would guess that the majority of his service returns that got Lendl immediately on the defensive were off of first serves. Of course it's not as simple as saying he's better off against Lendl's first serve because there were so many more aces and unreturned serves off the first serve. But WHEN he returned the first serve, those returns tended to be more penetrating.

 

[jrepac]

Against someone who stayed back, yes. Not s/v players, though. I don't think he returned someone like Mcenroe's first serve better than his second.

With someone like Lendl I would guess that the majority of his service returns that got Lendl immediately on the defensive were off of first serves. Of course it's not as simple as saying he's better off against Lendl's first serve because there were so many more aces and unreturned serves off the first serve. But WHEN he returned the first serve, those returns tended to be more penetrating.

I think you may be right about that...he certainly did that to Lendl in 2 USO finals on the 1st serve. Whereas w/S&V players like Mac and Edberg, they did not want to give him a 2nd serve...

 

[Moose Malloy]

In the '76 match the newspaper reports emphasize that Tanner's service return turned the match around; they say he started returning short and that this threw Connors off. A few reporters compared it to Ashe's tactics the year before.

On the serve, I'm sure Tanner was not taking off very much pace (like you said he still had 19 aces). But he did say he was varying the pace more than usual. Tanner told the reporters, "I have never served harder than I did today. But I also served intelligently. I tried to vary the pace of every serve. Against Jimmy, if you serve two the same he knocks the second one off—if he hasn’t already knocked off the first one.”

And in another article: "I think I had him confused with varying my service. Anytime you serve two serves alike he knocks the second one off. Last year he seemed able to step into it. Today he couldn’t.”

The New York Times reported that Tanner made 45 of 92 first serves in the '76 match (48.9%).

Some new comments by Tanner to ESPN over the weekend about his '75 match with Connors, where he says Ashe told him to vary the pace and feed him junk etc. I didn't see him doing anything differently in this match than he normally does, but maybe I'll give it a rewatch. Wonder if Tanner got his years mixed up since writers in '76 compared his play that year to Ashe in '75 etc.

Tanner and Ashe spent a lot of time together at that year's event, on and off the court, even having dinner at the Playboy Club in London's Mayfair. "Arthur used to like to go to the Playboy Club because they had really good prices on dinner," Tanner said. "Their food was cheap but very good. So we'd go have dinner and then he'd go play blackjack. So Arthur and I are sitting at dinner, and he's telling me how to play Connors, and I'm listening."

Ashe told Tanner to give Connors some "junk," use slow balls and play angles so that Connors would have to create his own pace, something he was uncomfortable doing. Unfortunately for Tanner, it didn't work.

"So I went out and tried to play his way against Jimmy and in the first two sets, I got killed," he said. "Then I started trying to play my way, and I think I lost the third, in a close set [6-4]. He wanted me to play softballs, little angles, all this, and I don't play that way. I did that but I was down two sets so quickly."

Could there have been a hidden agenda? Tanner had beaten Ashe in the third round at Wimbledon the year before, so maybe Ashe did not fancy taking him on in the final. But Tanner, who went on to reach the final in 1979, had nothing but praise for what Ashe did against Connors, going against his natural game on the biggest stage of all.

"Arthur was known as a big slasher, big server," he said. "And here he's playing this cat and mouse game, and it worked because Jimmy likes to feed off of your power. But you'd better be hitting it sort of down and away from him. That's what Arthur was doing. My game was to go with power, to go in close to the body."

The following year at Wimbledon, Tanner found himself against Connors again. This time, he did not make the same mistake.

"The next year, I played Jimmy in the quarters, playing my game, and I beat him in three straight sets," Tanner said.

A little-told-tale of Arthur Ashe, Roscoe Tanner and Jimmy Connors at Wimbledon 1975

Roscoe Tanner told ESPN about the advice Arthur Ashe gave him the same year Ashe went on to win -- and it didn't work.

www.espn.com

 

[WCT]

Some new comments by Tanner to ESPN over the weekend about his '75 match with Connors, where he says Ashe told him to vary the pace and feed him junk etc. I didn't see him doing anything differently in this match than he normally does, but maybe I'll give it a rewatch. Wonder if Tanner got his years mixed up since writers in '76 compared his play that year to Ashe in '75 etc.

A little-told-tale of Arthur Ashe, Roscoe Tanner and Jimmy Connors at Wimbledon 1975

Roscoe Tanner told ESPN about the advice Arthur Ashe gave him the same year Ashe went on to win -- and it didn't work.

www.espn.com

I did stats for that match and I think you or Krosero did. Maybe Waspsting as well. I don't think any of us noticed some glaring difference in how Tanner played. I saw parts of a book he wrote years ago. He talked about the same thing there as the article. He tried to play like Ashe suggested and it didn't work for him.

I have seen maybe close to a set of the 76 match and I didn't notice a difference there either.