Stats for 1984 RG final (Lendl-McEnroe)

[krosero]

Lendl d. McEnroe 3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5

Lendl served 5 aces and 1 double.
McEnroe served 7 aces and 5 doubles.

Lendl hit 46 winners: 19 FH, 19 BH, 3 FHV, 2 BHV, 3 smashes.

McEnroe hit 65 winners: 9 FH, 9 BH, 22 FHV, 17 BHV, 8 smashes.


McEnroe hit as many winners as he did in his four-set victory over Borg in the 1981 Wimbledon final (although he need five more games to hit that many here). McEnroe had more volley/overhead winners here than in the Borg match, by 47 to 45.

The highest count on the chart belongs not to Lendl’s forehand but to McEnroe’s forehand volley, with 22 winners.

McEnroe had at least 9 drop-shot winners, and Lendl none. Of the nine, 5 were at the net.

McEnroe made four passing shots, and returned Lendl's serve three times for winners. He had no lob winners.

Lendl hit 2 FH lob winners and passed McEnroe 10 times with service return winners (three off the first serve). On top of that he passed McEnroe 18 other times -- 12 times with his backhand.

So Lendl passed McEnroe in one way or another 30 times. He did it 12 times in the fifth set alone, as compared to 5 in the equally long fourth set.

McEnroe also lifted his winners in the fifth set; his total for that set was his highest of the match.

Lendl’s winners by set: 8, 2, 10, 10, 16
McEnroe’s winners by set: 12, 8, 15, 13, 17


Some stats from NBC:

At 3-all in the fifth, Lendl was serving at 76%, McEnroe at 46%.

At 2-all in the third, Lendl was winning 64% of his first serves, McEnroe 84%.

After four sets, Lendl had made 25 unforced errors, McEnroe 42. In the fourth set, Lendl made 7, McEnroe 15.

For the entire match, Lendl won 20 of 33 approaches (or 61%), McEnroe 87 of 144 (or 60%).

Lendl finished with 158 points, McEnroe with 154.

 

[hoodjem]

One of the all-time great/worst GS losses. Do you know how close Mac came in the third set. Wasn't he way up in the third set before he choked and fell apart?

"At 3-all in the fifth, Lendl was serving at 76%, McEnroe at 46%." This does not surprise me.

 

[krosero]

One of the all-time great/worst GS losses. Do you know how close Mac came in the third set. Wasn't he way up in the third set before he choked and fell apart?

Actually McEnroe never got ahead in the third. He faced his first break point at 1-2 was broken for the first time in the match at 2-3. He broke right back and got as close as 4-all, but was broken again at 4-5.

In his book, You Cannot Be Serious, McEnroe misremembered and said that he was up 2-love in the third. He said that he had never watched a tape of the match.

He got closer in the fourth set. He broke at 1-all, got broken right back, and broke again. He served at 4-3 and lost a close game. In the next game he had a break point and was five points away from the match. He made an unforced error trying to get into the net.

However the fourth set had more breaks than any other set, so losing a break chance at that stage of the match was nothing unusual.

I don't have a count of the break points but I do have the breaks:


Each man was broken 6 times. There was 1 break in the first set, 2 in the second, 3 in the third, 5 in the fourth, and 1 in the fifth.

Lendl was broken once in the first set, twice in the second, once in the third, and twice in the fourth. McEnroe was broken at 2-3 in the third, after 11 consecutive holds. He was broken twice in that set, three times in the fourth, and once in the fifth.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Yeah, I think this is a bit overrated in the 'choke' department, which the stats kinda show. Was a high quality match from the beginning, Lendl won this match more than Mac lost it imo.

Mac really overstates how close he was to winning it(surprised that his co-author would let him 'misremember' being up a break in the 3rd in his book)

And Mac holding 11 straight times on clay is insane, no way could he(or anyone really) be expected to keep that up.

And Lendl put it well in the post match interview, when asked how he won it when he was the underdog, yet lost when he was favored to win the FO the last 2 years, "well, who could have ever imagined John McEnroe would be one of the favorites for the French."

Really, I think this tournament should be used more to praise Mac than used to put him down, it was like Nadal at Wimbledon, someone playing out of their mind on a surface that clearly did not suit them.

Lendl finished with 158 points, McEnroe with 154.

Pretty low number for 5 sets. Guess there were a lot of quick games.

McEnroe hit 65 winners

is that the highest amount of winners(so far) that we've found in a claycourt match?

By my count, these were McEnroe's service percentages by set: 52, 58, 40, 35, and 46.

do you know how many service points he played?

McEnroe had at least 9 drop-shot winners, and Lendl none. Of the nine, 5 were at the net.

when you say 'drop-shot winners' at net do you mean drop volleys? were those 5 counted in the volley stats? if a ball bounces at net & someone hits a drop volley, is that counted as a groundstroke or volley?

 

[krosero]

Yeah, I think this is a bit overrated in the 'choke' department, which the stats kinda show. Was a high quality match from the beginning, Lendl won this match more than Mac lost it imo.

Mac really overstates how close he was to winning it(surprised that his co-author would let him 'misremember' being up a break in the 3rd in his book)

And Mac holding 11 straight times on clay is insane, no way could he(or anyone really) be expected to keep that up.

And Lendl put it well in the post match interview, when asked how he won it when he was the underdog, yet lost when he was favored to win the FO the last 2 years, "well, who could have ever imagined John McEnroe would be one of the favorites for the French."

Really, I think this tournament should be used more to praise Mac than used to put him down, it was like Nadal at Wimbledon, someone playing out of their mind on a surface that clearly did not suit them.

Completely agree with this.

is that the highest amount of winners(so far) that we've found in a claycourt match?

McEnroe's total is the highest we've counted ourselves in claycourt matches, though Agassi against Wilander had the best rate so far (64 winners in 48 games). Also slightly higher than Mac is Connors against Borg in their Forest Hills final (54 winners in 42 games).

Mac's ahead, though, in volleys/overheads on clay (with 47). I don't know who else might be up there, maybe an Edberg match in the 1989 tournament.

do you know how many service points he played?

He made 69 of 155 first serves.

On my sheet an interesting pattern showed up. In the individual games in sets 1 and 2, Mac generally got more first serves in than he missed, or he broke even. But he didn't in the last game of each set. He made only 2 of 6 first serves closing out the first set, and the same number closing out the second.

Don't know if it's reading too much into it, but to me the numbers suggest that he was nervous -- on this day, on this surface, at this tournament, etc. If you interpret it that way, it's not so much that McEnroe collapsed/choked at a certain point in the match; it's more like there was a nervousness from the start, which Lendl capitalized on in the third set.

Notably, Lendl had his first love service game to open the third set (per NBC). By then, maybe he thought he had nothing left to lose; he certainly was not folding the way he had in Australia six months earlier.

And McEnroe might already have been tiring. He says in his book that in the semifinal round the sun came out and he started worrying about the heat. His tiredness, I'm sure you know, was one of the things that the announcers talked about. And he looks tired, in the latter half of the match.

Just speculating: maybe McEnroe did not train enough for moving/sliding on clay, and was genuinely fatigued in the legs because of it. I say that because endurance as a general issue need not have been a problem; he got through some long wins in his career on fast surfaces.

when you say 'drop-shot winners' at net do you mean drop volleys? were those 5 counted in the volley stats? if a ball bounces at net & someone hits a drop volley, is that counted as a groundstroke or volley?

In this case I said "at net" as a shorthand for volleys, though I'm usually keenly aware that this shorthand often doesn't work. Often you get ground strokes hit near the net. In McEnroe's case, all the drop shots I mentioned at net were volleys. But he and other players, of course, hit ground strokes near the net, and those count as ground strokes.

Even half-volleys count as ground strokes. Anyway, that's how I've done all my stats, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary.

 

[krosero]

Additional stats

Lendl served on 155 points, and 28 serves did not come back: 18.1%
McEnroe served on 155 points, and 35 serves did not come back: 22.6%

Lendl’s rate was exactly the same as what Connors had against Mac in the semis.

Lendl had this same exact rate against McEnroe later in the year in their USO final.

 

[krosero]

Lendl made 109 of 155 first serves (70%). By set:

16/23 (70%)
18/25 (72%)
28/38 (74%)
27/35 (77%)
20/34 (59%)

McEnroe made 67 of 155 first serves (43%). By set:

14/27 (52%)
11/19 (58%)
11/30 (37%)
13/40 (33%)
18/39 (46%)

McEnroe missed 6 straight first serves in the fourth set, and 7 in the fifth.

Lendl made his first serve on 10 of 15 break points (67%). He was broken four times on first serves, twice on second serves.

McEnroe made his first serve on 6 of 14 break points (43%). He was broken three times on second serve and then another three times on first serves.

Lendl converted 6 of 14 break points (43%), McEnroe 6 of 15 (40%).

 

[krosero]

Lendl won 99 of 155 points on serve. He closed out the match with 12 straight points won on serve.

He went 68% on first serves (74/109) and 54% on second serves (25/46).


McEnroe won 97 of 155 points on serve. At one stage he won 13 straight service points, including the first 9 of the second set.

He went 70% on first serves (47/67) and 57% on second serves (50/88 ).

McEnroe was doing fine on first serves but in the final game he suddenly lost 4 of 5 first-serve points.

***********

Counting only points on which serves were put back in play:

Lendl went 60% on first serve (52/87) and 49% on second (19/39).
McEnroe went 52% on first serve (22/42) and 55% on second (40/73).

So it was Lendl’s first serve, more than McEnroe’s, that retained the greatest effect on the outcome of the point after it was returned. That is not surprising when you consider that McEnroe, if he could return Lendl’s big first serve, was then stuck rallying against a superior baseliner.

Lendl, if he could return McEnroe's first serve, was in pretty good shape.

 

[jrepac]

One of the all-time great/worst GS losses. Do you know how close Mac came in the third set. Wasn't he way up in the third set before he choked and fell apart?

"At 3-all in the fifth, Lendl was serving at 76%, McEnroe at 46%." This does not surprise me.

well, generally speaking, when mac was serving at 70pct or better, he was nearly untouchable. When he fell under 50pct, he was in danger against the top guys.. no question.

this match "devolved" if anything....Mac's game unwound and Lendl got into it and ground him down.

 

[krosero]

They played 51 games. Only two French finals have been longer.

1927 Lacoste d. Tilden - 61 games
1934 von Cramm d. Crawford - 56 games

 

[krosero]

Lendl came into the match with only an 8-10 record in five-setters. He improved that to 36-22 by the end of his career.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4894821&postcount=181

 

[krosero]

Lendl was the second man in the Open Era to come back from two sets down in a Slam final.

The first had been Borg when he won his first French Open ten years earlier.

It's been done two other times, both also at the French: Agassi-Medvedev in '99, and Gaudio-Coria in '04.

 

[krosero]

The day after this match Lendl was at the top of the ATP rankings again, though he only held five titles (including RG) while McEnroe held 10 (including Wimbledon and the Masters).

Arguably McEnroe should still have held the top ranking. He traded the top spot back and forth with Lendl through mid-August and then put a stranglehold on it for the next 12 months.

 

[krosero]

AP and UPI:

One McEnroe did come away with a French Open title Sunday. Patrick McEnroe, John’s brother, teamed with Luke Jensen to win the junior boys’ doubles, defeating Boris Becker of West Germany and Eric Winogradsky of France, 5-7, 6-3, 6-4.​

 

[kiki]

Anyway, Mc Enroe still had the tank full and procedeed to devastate the Wimbledon and US National tennis center courts.maybe he got in a big rage after that FO failure.

 

[krosero]

Anyway, Mc Enroe still had the tank full and procedeed to devastate the Wimbledon and US National tennis center courts.maybe he got in a big rage after that FO failure.

He did say in his book that he wanted to drive a stake through Lendl's heart in the USO final.

As much as the defeat haunted him in later years, it had virtually zero effect on his tennis at the time. If anything it drove him to play better (at least when facing Lendl).

 

[krosero]

Here's an Associated Press report, with an interesting bit relating to a topic we're always knocking about on this board.

Lendl-McEnroe Duel Capped Banner French Open Tourney

With a Grand Slam winner, record crowds paying record gate money and one of the best men’s finals in its history, this year’s French Open tennis tournament had just about everything.

“For the first time, the tournament got the final it deserved,” Philippe Chatrier, president of the International Tennis Federation, said yesterday. “Last year, Yannick (Noah) made us all so happy with his emotional victory. But a five-set match between the world’s top two players -- I could not have dreamed of anything better,” Chatrier said.

French newspapers agreed with Chatrier’s judgment of the men’s final between Ivan Lendl and John McEnroe, which the 24-year-old Czech won by coming from two sets down in a center court thriller that lasted over four hours.

It was the first time that Lendl had won a Grand Slam tournament after finishing runner-up four times.

“Lendl beat himself,” said the back page headline in Le Figaro, one of France’s biggest selling newspapers.

“Ivan Lendl has waited a long time before achieving that ultimate joy for a professional tennis player -- a Grand Slam title,” said the paper.

The 17,000 capacity crowd who watched Lendl’s 3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 victory swelled the number of specatators over the two weeks at Roland Garros stadium to 270,326, up almost 14,000 from last year.

They paid record receipts of $3.35 million, compared with $2.66 million in 1983.

Chatrier said the most important aspect of this year’s French Open was how the world’s best all-around players, as well as the clay court specialists, managed to master the slow red clay at Roland Garros.

No American has won the men’s singles title on the soft surface since 1955. But McEnroe came desperately close and three of the four finalists in the men’s and women’s singles were from the United States.

“McEnroe did not lose the final by trying to change his game. A player of his quality is above all surfaces,” Chatrier said.

Lendl’s $130,000 first prize took his total earnings from tennis to more than $5 million. But the biggest money-winner in the tournament was Martina Navratilova, the Czech-born women’s champion who became only the fifth player in history to win the Grand Slam -- the French, Australian and United States opens and Wimbledon.​

 

[kiki]

He did say in his book that he wanted to drive a stake through Lendl's heart in the USO final.

As much as the defeat haunted him in later years, it had virtually zero effect on his tennis at the time. If anything it drove him to play better (at least when facing Lendl).

Mac played his best match of the season against Lendl, either at Brussels or at the Open.

 

[krosero]

Mac played his best match of the season against Lendl, either at Brussels or at the Open.

Brilliant as the USO final was I'd still place it below the Wimbledon final which is still one of the cleanest performances of all time (just 3 unforced errors).

I don't know anything about the Brussels match, though. That was a 6-3, 6-1 drubbing, which happens to be the most one-sided score that McEnroe ever enjoyed over Lendl.

In their entire rivalry there was only one other time the loser was held to only 4 games (1989 Canadian final).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=M047&oId=L018

 

[krosero]

That win in Brussels was part of a 5-match winning streak that McEnroe had over Lendl (the longest that John had in their rivalry). But this is only in official matches. On April 8 they met in the Suntory Cup final and Lendl came away with the win.

McEnroe was officially unbeaten to start off 1984, with 42 straight victories, but I'd like to know what the numbers are if non-santioned tourneys are counted.

 

[krosero]

E.J. Dionne in the New York Times mentions the photographer incident that so many people like to blame for McEnroe's loss:

PARIS, June 10— Ivan Lendl won his first Grand Slam tennis tournament today, making a spectacular comeback in the French Open to defeat John McEnroe in a four-hour match that left 16,500 spectators dazzled and chanting the winner's name. The scores were 3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5. McEnroe raced to a two-set lead with his usual aggressive style, including a scorching serve, that seemed destined to turn the match into a rout. But when Lendl broke him in the sixth game of the third set, he also broke the tempestuous American's momentum. From there on, it was a sparkling, emotional endurance contest that seesawed until Lendl made the final break. McEnroe's last shot was a potentially easy volley that he tiredly knocked out of court. It seemed to symbolize the steady decay of his game. ''I saw hope as soon as I broke him,'' Lendl said of the crucial third set. ''I felt that once I could break him, I could do it again.'' A disconsolate McEnroe, who missed the chance to become the first American male to win here since 1955, said his game seemed to deteriorate as the match went on. He also said he had injured himself slightly when he fell in reaching for a shot. But he did not blame the injury for his defeat. ''I couldn't ask for any more chances,'' the 25-year-old left-hander said. It was his first loss of the year, after 42 victories....

The McEnroe-Lendl match ran to 51 games, the longest by 10 games since the introduction of the tiebreaker in 1974. The result was particularly gratifying for Lendl, who had been dubbed ''the champion loser'' for finishing second in his four previous appearances in major finals. Asked later about his feelings, the 24-year-old Czechoslovak replied, ''It feels great to answer different questions.'' The match, played in harsh sunlight that baked the clay court at Roland Garros Stadium, offered only the barest measure of excitement at the start as each tried to check the other's strengths. For the first hour, it seemed that nothing could stop McEnroe. The fifth game of the first set was typical. He dropped only 1 point and kept Lendl off balance with his serve. Lendl seemed to struggle just to hit the ball, and McEnroe wound up the game with an ace. McEnroe dominated the second set even more. He went ahead, 4-0, with drop shots and seemingly effortless volleys that had Lendl dashing hopelessly across the court. But in the third set, the American lost his self-control and, as it turned out, the match. During the tournament, he had enhanced his reputation for irascibility - he was fined $3,600 - by engaging in repeated arguments with officials and photographers, whom he attacked bitterly on the ground that they were disturbing his concentration. He was restrained with the officials today, but in the third game of the third set he angrily walked over to a group of television technicians and grabbed the headset of one. After the match, he refused to say what the incident was about.

''Why don't you make something up?'' he replied when asked about it. McEnroe lost that game, won the next, then lost the fifth, even though he had a 40-30 lead. On a key point, he ended face down on the clay after lunging at and missing a Lendl winner. In the following game, the one Lendl saw as crucial, McEnroe's serve was broken for the first time. After the incident with the technicians, the crowd, already pro-Lendl, became more vociferous. It cheered wildly when Lendl eked out the third set, and McEnroe said later that the crowd's reaction had worked against him.

''People like to root for the underdog and they really got involved in the match,'' he said. ''The public can help a player.'' With McEnroe appearing to tire, Lendl seemed intent on preventing his better-rated opponent from going on the attack. Though McEnroe salvaged some points by rushing the net, Lendl, particularly with his backhand, was able to put many returns out of his reach. And when he got McEnroe into a rally now, he was ultimately winning the point. When Lendl took the fourth set by breaking serve, he seemed on the verge of doing the impossible. Like the rest of the match, the fifth set went back and forth, with Lendl often scoring with cross-court drives and McEnroe putting away shots at the net. McEnroe, although less agile and making more unforced errors, held to 5-5, but Lendl, on a roll, took the 11th game at love. In the 12th game, what was left of McEnroe's skill at the net deserted him as Lendl managed to get to seemingly unreacheable balls. The crowd, fully aware it was watching an historic match, chanted, ''Len-DL! Len-DL! LenDL!'' and ''Go! Go! Go!'' until silenced by the officials.

When McEnroe missed his last shot, an easy forehand volley, the crowd exploded into cheers and screams. Exhausted when he accepted his prize, worth about $130,000, Lendl could manage only a single sentence. ''I'm very happy that I won my first Grand Slam tournament here in Paris,'' he said, ''and I will be back next year.'' McEnroe did not say anything, and the crowd, against him all day, took that as a slight. The American walked glumly to the locker room to a chorus of boos.​

 

[kiki]

That win in Brussels was part of a 5-match winning streak that McEnroe had over Lendl (the longest that John had in their rivalry). But this is only in official matches. On April 8 they met in the Suntory Cup final and Lendl came away with the win.

McEnroe was officially unbeaten to start off 1984, with 42 straight victories, but I'd like to know what the numbers are if non-santioned tourneys are counted.

Lendl won their 1983 San Francisco Final 3-6, 6-4, 7-6, so that made a dent between the consecutive wins Mac had over the czech in between 83 and 84.

 

[krosero]

More from the AP/UPI story:

Ivan Lendl is no longer the best tennis player to never have won a Grand Slam tournament.

Lendl, the immensely talented Czechoslovakian who had been runnerup in a number of major events, staged one of the greatest comebacks in tennis history Sunday to beat John McEnroe for the French Open championship.

Lendl, after dropping the first two sets, 3-6 and 2-6, rallied to win the next three sets and the match, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5. The grueling match took four hours eight minutes. The loss was McEnroe first after 42 straight victories.

“I’ll finally be able to answer some different questions,” said Lendl. “It feels great.”

Lendl, who earned $131,250 for winning, was indeed a happy person. In recent years, many have questioned his ability to perform in big matches. He acquired a reputation of being somewhat of a choke artist. He finished second at last year’s Australian Open to Sweden’s Mats Wilander, lost in the final of the last two US Opens, both to Jimmy Connors, and lost here in the 1981 final to Bjorn Borg.

But Sunday, Lendl was terrific. He used a relentlessly hard-stroking game, and unlike McEnroe, his legs were still strong at the end. Lendl felt that was the difference.

“We were both a little tired,” Lendl said. “But I guess John was a little more tired. He was moving slower, he was just giving me a little more space for passing shots.

“For the first two sets, John was playing great, serving and volleying well and doing everything. Then he started getting tired and, slowly, I started winning. Maybe I’m in a little better shape than I was last year.”

Lendl’s victory meant American men will have to wait until 1985 to try to break a jinx on the slow, red clay at Roland Garros stadium. No US man has won here since 1955, when Tony Trabert successfully defended his title.

Oh, really?

McEnroe, rated the best player in the world by the computers, was booed by the crowd when he refused to make a comment after accepting the second-place trophy.

Later, McEnroe said, “I’m a little down now because I thought I had a chance to win it. I had a lot of opportunities, a couple of times in the third set and three or four games in a row. I could have won all of them, but ended up winning none.

“It’s tough to serve on clay in a long match, but I just didn’t serve well enough.”

McEnroe had forsaken the doubles competition to concentrate on singles. The French Open and the Australian Open are the only two Grand Slam titles McEnroe hasn’t won. He has won the US Open and Wimbledon.​

Interesting that McEnroe played only singles at this French, I wonder how often he skipped doubles in the Slams.

I guess it shows how much he wanted the French title.

 

[krosero]

Someone in another thread raised the question of how it affected McEnroe's performance in singles, to play in doubles -- particularly whether it drained him to play a doubles match the day before a GS singles final.

He got tired in this French final, but he was well rested, with no doubles, and an easy path to the singles final (he dropped one set, in the R16).

By contrast look at what he did at the 1980 USO, beating Lendl in a four-set quarterfinal on Thursday, losing a 5-set doubles match on Friday, and beating McEnroe and Borg in successive five-setters on Saturday and Sunday.

McEnroe said often that doubles was how he stayed sharp and in shape. He admitted that he was not keen on training and practice, so competing in doubles kind of filled that role for him.

I wonder if playing doubles at this French might have actually helped him a little bit when he found himself in an endurance contest against Lendl.

 

[krosero]

McEnroe came into the French final with a 13-8 record in five-setters (he finished his career at 26-13). Since the 1982 Wimbledon final he had won 6 of 7 five-setters (the sole loss to Clerc in Davis Cup).

After this loss to Lendl he won his next five, the longest streak of his career (Zivojinovic ended the streak at the 1985 AO).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4888055&postcount=125

 

[krosero]

Lendl did not play badly in the first two sets of this French final, but arguably he was playing nervously – or at least below potential. He opened the second set by getting broken from 40-love up and was broken in his next service game from 30-15 up. He got broken also from 40-30 up, in the first set.

So in those first two sets he gave up leads in all of the service games in which he was broken.

In the remaining three sets McEnroe broke him three more times, but without any help from Lendl, who gave up no leads in those games except a minor lead of 15-love.

 

[kiki]

Lendl had some brilliant comebacks wins over the course of his long career.Not just that RG final against Mc Enroe, but he also came back from 0-2 and a match point down against Vitas Gerulaitis in the 1981 Masters final.And that same year, he had overcome two mp for JL Clerc during their classic five sets semifinal at Paris.Not to mention his memorable comeback in the US Open 1984 semis vs Pat Cash.

 

[krosero]

Just checked the ATP site, McEnroe played men's doubles at the French only twice, in '77 (with Ycaza) and '92 (with Agassi).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Mc/J/John-Mcenroe.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=d&e=520#

 

[kiki]

What did happen in 1980 agaisnt Paul Mc Namee?

 

[krosero]

What did happen in 1980 agaisnt Paul Mc Namee?

Mac lost that in 4 sets, all 4 going to tiebreaks. It lasted 4 hours 18 minutes so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the longest match he ever played at RG.

McEnroe almost forced it to five sets, serving for the fourth at 6-5 but losing that game after 11 deuces (or 9?)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=vpwcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=y2cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4008,7427227

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ot8zAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SzIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=7144,3481467

 

[hoodjem]

By my count, these were McEnroe's service percentages by set: 52, 58, 40, 35, and 46.

I believe that this stat explains a lot.

 

[medieval_remnant]

Yeah, I think this is a bit overrated in the 'choke' department, which the stats kinda show. Was a high quality match from the beginning, Lendl won this match more than Mac lost it imo.

Mac really overstates how close he was to winning it(surprised that his co-author would let him 'misremember' being up a break in the 3rd in his book)

And Mac holding 11 straight times on clay is insane, no way could he(or anyone really) be expected to keep that up.

And Lendl put it well in the post match interview, when asked how he won it when he was the underdog, yet lost when he was favored to win the FO the last 2 years, "well, who could have ever imagined John McEnroe would be one of the favorites for the French."

Really, I think this tournament should be used more to praise Mac than used to put him down, it was like Nadal at Wimbledon, someone playing out of their mind on a surface that clearly did not suit them.



Pretty low number for 5 sets. Guess there were a lot of quick games.



is that the highest amount of winners(so far) that we've found in a claycourt match?



do you know how many service points he played?



when you say 'drop-shot winners' at net do you mean drop volleys? were those 5 counted in the volley stats? if a ball bounces at net & someone hits a drop volley, is that counted as a groundstroke or volley?

a choke is not a collapse but a subconscious awareness of the precariousness of your lead. Such a choke is not really a CHOKE but a normal part of the game

 

[medieval_remnant]

Completely agree with this.

McEnroe's total is the highest we've counted ourselves in claycourt matches, though Agassi against Wilander had the best rate so far (64 winners in 48 games). Also slightly higher than Mac is Connors against Borg in their Forest Hills final (54 winners in 42 games).

Mac's ahead, though, in volleys/overheads on clay (with 47). I don't know who else might be up there, maybe an Edberg match in the 1989 tournament.

He made 69 of 155 first serves.

On my sheet an interesting pattern showed up. In the individual games in sets 1 and 2, Mac generally got more first serves in than he missed, or he broke even. But he didn't in the last game of each set. He made only 2 of 6 first serves closing out the first set, and the same number closing out the second.

Don't know if it's reading too much into it, but to me the numbers suggest that he was nervous -- on this day, on this surface, at this tournament, etc. If you interpret it that way, it's not so much that McEnroe collapsed/choked at a certain point in the match; it's more like there was a nervousness from the start, which Lendl capitalized on in the third set.

Notably, Lendl had his first love service game to open the third set (per NBC). By then, maybe he thought he had nothing left to lose; he certainly was not folding the way he had in Australia six months earlier.

And McEnroe might already have been tiring. He says in his book that in the semifinal round the sun came out and he started worrying about the heat. His tiredness, I'm sure you know, was one of the things that the announcers talked about. And he looks tired, in the latter half of the match.

Just speculating: maybe McEnroe did not train enough for moving/sliding on clay, and was genuinely fatigued in the legs because of it. I say that because endurance as a general issue need not have been a problem; he got through some long wins in his career on fast surfaces.

In this case I said "at net" as a shorthand for volleys, though I'm usually keenly aware that this shorthand often doesn't work. Often you get ground strokes hit near the net. In McEnroe's case, all the drop shots I mentioned at net were volleys. But he and other players, of course, hit ground strokes near the net, and those count as ground strokes.

Even half-volleys count as ground strokes. Anyway, that's how I've done all my stats, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary.

of course, Mac was nervous at beginning of third set. He only really dominated lendl at that point for a short period, end of first set and beginning of second which secured the two sets. But that is precarious, as every tennis player knows

 

[medieval_remnant]

Mac played his best match of the season against Lendl, either at Brussels or at the Open.

Mac cranked it up against Lendl in the third set of the 1984 US Open final. Lendl was playing well and mac had to fight to secure the two breaks to go up 4 - 0