Stats for 1995 W SF(Sampras-Ivanisevic)

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
Sampras d Ivanisevic 7-6(7) 4-6 6-3 4-6 6-3

Stats from the ATP site:

20 aces, 4 doubles for Sampras
36 aces, 9 doubles for Ivanisevic
Sampras was at 66% on 1st serves, Goran 64%

Sampras won 175 points, Goran 185

Sampras was 3 of 5 on break points, Goran 2 of 8.

Match time was only 153 mins.

My stats(the dvd is missing from 15-0 at 5-6 in the 1st set set, a Goran service game, until 5-4 in the tiebreak):

Sampras had 37 non service winners: 8FH, 5BH, 9FV, 7BHV, 8 O
Goran had 31 non service winners: 9FH, 6BH, 6FHV, 6BHV, 4 O

I counted 9 service winners for each player. I think Sampras probably could have gotten his racquet on a number of serves, but just let them go for aces(much like krosero mentioned in his thread for the '96 Becker-Sampras Masters final)

Sampras had 38 unreturned serves, Goran 22.

Counting aces, service winners & non-service winners, Goran had 76 winners, Sampras 66.

Just counting non service winners, Sampras had more of them in every set except set 2.

Goran didn't lose a service point in the 2nd set(20 points) Of those 20 points, 7 were aces, 3 were service winners, 7 were unreturnables. So he won 17 out of the 20 service points that set with just one shot.

But in his 1st service game of the 3rd set he served 2 doubles & was broken.

He won the 1st 3 service games of the 4th set at love, & served 14 aces, no doubles, in that set.

Sampras also broke Goran in his 1st service game of the 5th.

Sampras served no doubles in the last 2 sets.

At 2-1 in the 1st set a graphic said that Goran had 137 aces up to that point in the tournament, while Sampras had 63.

A graphic at 1-0 in the 5th showed the net stats as this:

24/42 for Goran, 35/63 for Sampras.

krosero, did the NY times have any stats for this match?
 

daddy

Legend
Goran didn't lose a service point in the 2nd set(20 points) Of those 20 points, 7 were aces, 3 were service winners, 7 were unreturnables. So he won 17 out of the 20 service points that set with just one shot.

Thanks Moose.

Impressive stat up there, not a point lost in a set on serve. What is more impressive is that he won 10 points more in total and managed to lose, this is why the important points are called important I guess. ;)
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
What is more impressive is that he won 10 points more in total and managed to lose, this is why the important points are called important I guess.

this has happened in a few other sampras matches as well, which I think says something about Sampras.

from a thread on the '96 ATP Championship:

Sampras won 166 points overall, Becker 178. So in his two most difficult wins of 1996, Sampras won fewer points than did the man he beat (Alex Corretja won 218 points, and Sampras 213, in their USO quarterfinal).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=171388
 

krosero

Legend
this has happened in a few other sampras matches as well, which I think says something about Sampras.
Agassi won fewer points than Ivanisevic in the 1992 final: 179 vs. 195, just a huge difference.

And Agassi won fewer points when he beat Sampras at the 1995 AO: 151 vs. 154.

(All stats from the ATP).
 

thalivest

Banned
That was a great match. It was excellent tennis. Ivanisevic lost the crucial break early in the 5th by playing a dumb point at the net at 30-30 then missing an easy volley down break point.
 

daddy

Legend
Agassi won fewer points than Ivanisevic in the 1992 final: 179 vs. 195, just a huge difference.

And Agassi won fewer points when he beat Sampras at the 1995 AO: 151 vs. 154.

(All stats from the ATP).

Well well, Ivanisevic on the receiving end in semis and finals of the Wimbledon, both times had more points in total than the guy he lost to. Moose this goes to show something about Ivanisevic also, beside showing something about Sampras and Agassi. Seems that his temperament cost him dearly.

Let me know about this - do you think that he could have had at least one if not more slams if he kept his cool together, or is this statistic simply a consequence of his dominant service game which had to suffer once in a while in a best of 5 in grand slam ? ( he won a lot serves to love or 15 but lost breaks here and there when the serve let him down .. ?? ) I know his return game is surely not a reason for winning more points in a match vs Sampras or Agassi, Agassi notably better returner - maybe the best ever and Sampras surely a marginaly better returner with a huge serve himself.
 

krosero

Legend
Sampras had 38 unreturned serves, Goran 22.
So Sampras led in this stat about as much as Goran led in aces.

With some of their serves missing from your copy, we can't get an exact figure, but I was interested in how often Sampras got a free point, ie, an ace or otherwise unreturned serve. You've got Sampras with 38 unreturned serves (I presume including service winners), plus his 20 aces, out of 179 points that he served per the ATP. So he got a "free" point on 32% of his serves -- a rate that would go up a little if the missing points were accounted for. Ivanisevic with 22 unreturned serves and 36 aces has 58 free points, out of 181 served, or 32%, which again, would have to go up.

So the figures are inexact, but what we have puts them in a tie.

For the 1999 final, Sampras got "free" points on 38% of his serves, Agassi on 33%.

Sampras had 37 non service winners: 8FH, 5BH, 9FV, 7BHV, 8 O
Goran had 31 non service winners: 9FH, 6BH, 6FHV, 6BHV, 4 O
So Pete's rate per game (dividing by the 50 games on your copy) is fairly low at .74, while Goran is at .62. In the 1999 final Pete was at .97, Andre at .71.

A graphic at 1-0 in the 5th showed the net stats as this:

24/42 for Goran, 35/63 for Sampras.
The total approaches are really low, I'd have to believe that these net stats don't include approaches behind aces or even unreturned serves.
 

krosero

Legend
Goran didn't lose a service point in the 2nd set(20 points)
I'll quote our conversation from a past thread just so people see your prior work on this.

The context is an article in the International Herald Tribune that incorrectly reported Goran's streak on service as 26 straight points:

Becker Stuns Agassi, Setting Up a Final Showdown With Sampras
By Ian Thomsen International Herald Tribune

Saturday, July 8, 1995

[snip]

On Sunday, in his seventh Wimbledon final, No. 3 Becker will meet No. 2 Pete Sampras, the two-time defending champion and four years his junior, which amounts to a generation in tennis. In a rematch of last year's final, Sampras beat No. 4 Goran Ivanisevic of Croatia, 7-6 (9-7), 4-6, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3.

[snip]

Their match had exhibited all of the magic and drama that the preceding semifinal had lacked. Sampras's victory went on for 2 hours, 33 minutes at a Morse Code pace, only to be resolved anticlimactically and appropriately by a pair of opening games on Ivanisevic's serve.

The tone was established by a first-set tiebreaker that Sampras won like a stubborn arm-wrestler over 49 interminable minutes. Ivanisevic then won a throttling 26 consecutive points on serve, sprinkled with some of his 38 aces, to dominate the second set. The Croatian would win the fourth set similarly, if not quite as impressively; but much more revealing was his response to such success — each time turning and losing serve to start the ensuing set. He began the third set with a pair of double faults (he served eight overall).

krosero said:
But there's something I don't understand about this. He had 20 straight points on serve in the second set. He doubled in his next service game. That doesn't get us to 26. Were the missing points in the first-set tiebreak? How can that be, if he lost the tiebreak?

I can confirm it was only 21 straight(just watched that set)

Lost his last serve point in the 1st set tiebreak, didn't lose a point on serve in the entire 2nd set(it was really quite amazing, he hardly missed any 1st serves in the set), doubled in the 2nd point of his 1st serve game of the 3rd.

Sampras was very lucky to escape with a win.
 
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laurie

Guest
I'll quote our conversation from a past thread just so people see your prior work on this.

The context is an article in the International Herald Tribune that incorrectly reported Goran's streak on service as 26 straight points:

Sorry that I can't contribute anything stats wise - but I must agree with the Herald Tribune that the match was pretty boring even though it was five sets.

That's the reason why I always preferred to see two attackers on hardcourts and indoors - attacking players from the 1990s were prepared to stay back on their serves on other surfaces much more often consequently you got more rallies and a better level of Tennis. For instance Sampras and Edberg & Sampras and Becker played some great matches on hardcourts and indoors. The only match I really enjoyed from Wimbledon from that era between two attackers was Sampras v Rafter from the 2000 Wimbledon final. The 1988 Wimbledon final between Edberg and Becker was good but the 1990 final between Edberg and Becker was pretty dull I thought.
 

krosero

Legend
When Goran won the title in 2001, he won fewer points in his 5-set semifinal against Henman, 158 vs. 168.

And in the '98 semis he beat Krajicek 15-13 in the fifth, winning only 140 points to Krajicek's 150.

Stich-Edberg in '91, no surprise, is another example: Stich won 143 pts. to Edberg's 149.
 

krosero

Legend
Sorry that I can't contribute anything stats wise - but I must agree with the Herald Tribune that the match was pretty boring even though it was five sets.
I haven't seen the '95 SF but I felt the same way as you about the '94 final. But what did you think when Sampras faced Agassi at W, just in terms of enjoyment? I thought the '99 final was enjoyable.
 
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laurie

Guest
I haven't seen the '95 SF but I felt the same way as you about the '94 final. But what did you think when Sampras faced Agassi at W, just in terms of enjoyment? I thought the '99 final was enjoyable.

Well, first of all you jogged my memory - the 2001 Wimbledon final was one of the most amazing matches of all time. Besides the 2000 and 2001 Wimby finals - two serve and volleyers is not much fun - the Rafter factor?

To answer your question re 1999? Well that's one of my favourite matches. Before the semis, I told friends that if Pete played Andre, Pete would win because he can come to the net and match Andre from the baseline, that proved to be the case in the most spectacular way for Pete.

On grass, the best matches have been an attacker vs baseliner:

2000 semi- Rafter v Agassi
2001 semi - Rafter v Agassi
1997 semi - Pioline v Stich
1995 semi - Becker v Agassi
1993 quarterfinal - Sampras v Agassi
1997 final - Hingis v Novotna
2004 semi - Serena Williams v Mauresmo

Plus other matches that escape my mind, those were the best matchups on grass.
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
With some of their serves missing from your copy, we can't get an exact figure, but I was interested in how often Sampras got a free point, ie, an ace or otherwise unreturned serve. You've got Sampras with 38 unreturned serves (I presume including service winners), plus his 20 aces, out of 179 points that he served per the ATP. So he got a "free" point on 32% of his serves -- a rate that would go up a little if the missing points were accounted for. Ivanisevic with 22 unreturned serves and 36 aces has 58 free points, out of 181 served, or 32%, which again, would have to go up.

I didn't include service winners in the unreturned serves stat.

The only match I really enjoyed from Wimbledon from that era between two attackers was Sampras v Rafter from the 2000 Wimbledon final.

I thought this was quite a bit better than the '00 final, was surprised at how many good returns they both were making. Rafter wasn't capable of the returns that either Goran or Sampras were making in this match. I think that was the reason he lost both his W finals, you need to be able to hit clean winners on the backhand return to win Wimbledon(Becker, Edberg, Krajicek, Stich all did this the years they won it as well. Rafter couldn't come over his backhand the way other great grasscourters of the 90s could)

The tension level was very high in this match, you knew that any slight opportunity each player got could decide the match.

Let me know about this - do you think that he could have had at least one if not more slams if he kept his cool together, or is this statistic simply a consequence of his dominant service game which had to suffer once in a while in a best of 5 in grand slam ? (

Yeah he basically broke himself in the final in '92 & SF in '95, I remember he doublefaulted twice in the last game of the '92 final after breezing through his other service games in that set.
 

CEvertFan

Hall of Fame
Well, first of all you jogged my memory - the 2001 Wimbledon final was one of the most amazing matches of all time. Besides the 2000 and 2001 Wimby finals - two serve and volleyers is not much fun - the Rafter factor?

To answer your question re 1999? Well that's one of my favourite matches. Before the semis, I told friends that if Pete played Andre, Pete would win because he can come to the net and match Andre from the baseline, that proved to be the case in the most spectacular way for Pete.

On grass, the best matches have been an attacker vs baseliner:

2000 semi- Rafter v Agassi
2001 semi - Rafter v Agassi
1997 semi - Pioline v Stich
1995 semi - Becker v Agassi
1993 quarterfinal - Sampras v Agassi
1997 final - Hingis v Novotna
2004 semi - Serena Williams v Mauresmo

Plus other matches that escape my mind, those were the best matchups on grass.


You're forgetting a few of the Evert/Navratilova battles on grass.

The best ones would probably be:

1978 W final - Navratilova d Evert 2-6, 6-4, 7-5
1980 W semi - Evert d. Navratilova 4-6, 6-4, 6-2
1982 AO final - Evert d. Navratilova 6-3, 2-6, 6-3
1985 W final Navratilova d. Evert 4-6, 6-3, 6-2
1987 W semi Navratilova d. Evert 6-2, 5-7, 6-4
1988 W semi Navratilova d. Evert 6-1, 4-6, 7-5

All classic matchups involving a baseliner and a serve/volleyer.
 

krosero

Legend
I didn't include service winners in the unreturned serves stat.
Okay, so adding the 9 service winners you gave each player, each of them has 67 "free" points, won on a single shot. Each has a rate of 37% at minimum (before the missing points).

When I read "unreturned serve" I think of all the serves the receiver touches in some way but can't put back in play, including service winners.
 

superman1

Legend
I think Agassi had a good way to describe Sampras. I don't remember his wording exactly, but he said Sampras was a guy who would play very ordinary tennis for most of a set, then he'd suddenly play extraordinary tennis for one minute and suddenly the set would be his. Was there anyone more clutch than Sampras?
 
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laurie

Guest
I think Agassi had a good way to describe Sampras. I don't remember his wording exactly, but he said Sampras was a guy who would play very ordinary tennis for most of a set, then he'd suddenly play extraordinary tennis for one minute and suddenly the set would be his. Was there anyone more clutch than Sampras?

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure Agassi put it quite like that, Sampras raised his game at the vital moments. Also, it definitely depended on the opponent and the ocassion. In the biggest matches against the biggest opponents, there are many instances where Sampras played brilliant Tennis throughout from beginning to end of a match his whole encounter. A few examples:

1999 Wimbledon final - both guys were playing very high level Tennis from the beginning of the set but Sampras went into overdrive to dominate the rest of the match after saving three break points at 3-3 in the first set.

1990 US Open semifinal - I'm still amazed a guy just turned 19 could play Tennis at that level for almost 3 hours, McEnroe did well to get a set. Agassi had no such luck in the final, he was completely outplayed in 3, broken 5 times in 3 sets.

1997 Davis cup semifinal - one of Pete's best, he never let up on Rafter and I heard the match against Phillipoussis was equally impressive

1998 Vienna quarterfinal - 6:0 6-3 against Henman in 50 minutes, I mean he thrashed Henman

1997 Australian Open semi - Sampras played beautiful baseline Tennis against Muster from beginning to end.

1997 Australian Open final - Moya broke Pete once but Pete broke Moya 5 times

1999 ATP final - dominated Agassi from beginning to end, despite Agassi having a 4:1 lead in the 2nd set.

1993 US Open quarterfinal - that was against Chang. That was the famous quote where Nastase said (obviously up that point in time) that was the best hardcourt Tennis he'd ever witnessed.

There are so many more examples but the point I'm trying to make is that throughout Pete's career he played an incredible amount of matches of the most amazing quality Tennis, and all the media focus (not all media to be fair) is that Sampras just concentrated on the one break per set. Utter nonsense of course, Pete played just under 1000 professional matches, he didn't play all of those matches in such a blase fashion.
 
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laurie

Guest
You're forgetting a few of the Evert/Navratilova battles on grass.

The best ones would probably be:

1978 W final - Navratilova d Evert 2-6, 6-4, 7-5
1980 W semi - Evert d. Navratilova 4-6, 6-4, 6-2
1982 AO final - Evert d. Navratilova 6-3, 2-6, 6-3
1985 W final Navratilova d. Evert 4-6, 6-3, 6-2
1987 W semi Navratilova d. Evert 6-2, 5-7, 6-4
1988 W semi Navratilova d. Evert 6-1, 4-6, 7-5

All classic matchups involving a baseliner and a serve/volleyer.

Indeed, great battles
 

krosero

Legend
Stats from the ATP site:

20 aces, 4 doubles for Sampras
36 aces, 9 doubles for Ivanisevic
Sampras was at 66% on 1st serves, Goran 64%

Sampras won 175 points, Goran 185

Sampras was 3 of 5 on break points, Goran 2 of 8.
Looks like these stats are mistaken too.

The Irish Times has different numbers for the total points won:

More pertinently, Sampras converted three of five break points, whereas Ivanisevic capitalised on only two of eight. Given that Sampras won 146 points to Ivanisevic's 145, that told a multitude.

The AP:

Ivanisevic won 145 points and 22 games. Sampras won 146 points and 23 games.

That would mean an average of 5.7 points per game. The ATP’s numbers would have yielded a very high average of 7.01.

Extra stat from the Washington Times:

But while 48 percent of the total points were won without a service return - Ivaniseivc won all 20 of his points on serve in the second set - there was something of a plot. Ivanisevic won the second set, then had his service broken in the first game of the third. He won the fourth set, then had his service broken in the second game of the fifth.

It's the same pattern I've been finding: the aces, doubles, and break points reported by the ATP at least resemble what other sources are reporting, but the ATP's figures for points won/played are way off.

So all of my calculations above on the "free points" that the players got on serve are wrong, since I based them on the ATP's figures for total points served.

Agassi won fewer points than Ivanisevic in the 1992 final: 179 vs. 195, just a huge difference.

And Agassi won fewer points when he beat Sampras at the 1995 AO: 151 vs. 154.

(All stats from the ATP).
And of course that's wrong since those are the two matches I just did.
 
my stats, since i have complete match

first number is total in match, than numbers by sets

1st serve %

sampras 63 (70, 58, 57, 58, 67)
goran.... 61 (50, 75, 56, 82, 55)


1st serve pts won %

sampras 82 (77, 80, 82, 93, 88 )
goran.... 83 (75, 100, 71, 94, 75)


2nd serve pts won %

sampras 53 (47, 55, 46, 50, 75)
goran.... 59 (58, 100, 45, 75, 50)


total service pts won %

sampras 71 (68, 69, 67, 75, 83)
goran.... 74 (67, 100, 60, 91, 64)


aces

sampras 22 ( 9, 4, 4, 2, 3)
goran.... 38 (13, 7, 5, 9, 4)


double faults

sampras 4 (2, 1, 1, 0, 0)
goran.... 8 (3, 0, 3, 0, 2)


total winners (aces included)

sampras 62 ( 20, 7, 12, 9, 14)
goran.... 70 (22, 13, 11, 14, 10)


total unreturned serves (aces included)

sampras 69 (22, 14, 12, 9, 12)
goran.... 71 (21, 17, 8, 16, 9)


unreturned serves %

sampras 44.8 (44.0, 53.8, 40.0, 37.5, 50.0)
goran.... 51.8 (43.8, 85.0, 32.0, 72.7, 40.9)


break points

sampras 3/5 (0/2, 0/0, 2/2, 0/0, 1/1)
goran.... 2/8 (0/2, 1/2, 0/3, 1/1, 0/0)


total points won

sampras 146 (50, 18, 30, 20, 28 )
goran.... 145 (48, 28, 25, 26, 18 )


few observations
1) Officially, there was 21 aces from Sampras. Perhaps i counted one that was barely toched by Goran, it is hard to tell sometimes if it's clean ace

2) Sampras had low 1st serve percentage throught entire 1995. I don't have official data, but i have a lot of his matches from 95, more than any other year. He was constantly around 50-55 %. In fact, he reached final in US OPEN with just 49 % for the tournament. Therefore, 63 % from this match was excellent for him.

3) Still, choice of serve directions from Sampras was bit weird. Again, having many Sampras-Goran matches i can tell that on both courts Sampras troubled Goran with his slider to his backhand. Sampras had natural serves to that spot on both deuce and ad side. but this time he served a lot to Goran's forehand, even with 2nd serve and got burned qouite frequentlly.
one lucky point i remember, in 1st set, on break point; Sampras served wide to the forehand, got huge return back, and wolleyed into the top of the net - and ball went over:)
Changed that routine a bit as the match progressed.

4) In 2nd and 4th sets combined Sampras made only 9 returns in (3 in 2nd set!!), and Goran lost only 2 points. Unfortunately, he was losing serves in worst times, right after these perfect sets.
 

robow7

Professional
I remember Sampras attributing his win in this very close match to his ability and willingness to chip his return back in play off the bh.
 

krosero

Legend
Again, having many Sampras-Goran matches i can tell that on both courts Sampras troubled Goran with his slider to his backhand.
In their '98 final Goran had those two set points to take a 2-set lead. On both points I've got Sampras missing his first serve and then serving to Goran's backhand. And Goran missed both returns.
 

krosero

Legend
2) Sampras had low 1st serve percentage throught entire 1995. I don't have official data, but i have a lot of his matches from 95, more than any other year. He was constantly around 50-55 %. In fact, he reached final in US OPEN with just 49 % for the tournament.
I've got him at 54% in his Wimbledon and USO finals that year, and 50% against Chesnokov.

Therefore, 63 % from this match was excellent for him.
That's higher than in any of his Wimbledon finals. He reached 63% in his USO final against Safin, and 72% in his AO final against Moya, but I think those are the only Slam finals in which he went so high.
 
krosero
about those 2 set points for goran in 98; sampras made sure that he doesn't double fault and that it is directed to backhand, but those serves were not his best; goran had chance, both times tried the return with which he destroyed becker in 94 wimbledon, but missed; he deffinetelly stiffened here, to quote mcenroe's favourite line as a commentator
but point still remains that sampras slice serve, particullary on deuce side, bothered goran alot, much more than simillar tries from becker or krajicek

about sampras low 1st serve % in 95
i believe that it was his worst year 1st serve percentage wise; i really have ALOT of his matches from 95, atleast 20, and in most he had just over 50% or so; but he was serving alot of aces, had 12 matches that year over 20 aces, so basically despite low percentage, the opponent could kiss the point goodbye when the serve was in
in following years i have strong indications that his year average was in low 60s; for example, in 96, in stuttgart, one of the last tournaments of the year, he played agassi, and commentator said that his year average, untill that point is 61%
1997 is probabbly his all time high; just a hunch from matches i have. very often in high 60s, even low 70s. i wouldn't be surprised if he had 64, 65% or so
in 2000 australian open match against agassi, frew mcmillan said that sampras averaged 60% for the last year (that is 1999), which was, he said, "slightly lower than he normally does"
so, he normally does slightly better than 60%, 61 or 62 maybe
 

krosero

Legend
krosero
about those 2 set points for goran in 98; sampras made sure that he doesn't double fault and that it is directed to backhand, but those serves were not his best; goran had chance, both times tried the return with which he destroyed becker in 94 wimbledon, but missed; he deffinetelly stiffened here, to quote mcenroe's favourite line as a commentator
but point still remains that sampras slice serve, particullary on deuce side, bothered goran alot, much more than simillar tries from becker or krajicek
That's how I remember those serves, not his best, and Goran definitely tensing up.

Interesting that that return was a key in the Becker match.

about sampras low 1st serve % in 95
i believe that it was his worst year 1st serve percentage wise; i really have ALOT of his matches from 95, atleast 20, and in most he had just over 50% or so; but he was serving alot of aces, had 12 matches that year over 20 aces, so basically despite low percentage, the opponent could kiss the point goodbye when the serve was in
in following years i have strong indications that his year average was in low 60s; for example, in 96, in stuttgart, one of the last tournaments of the year, he played agassi, and commentator said that his year average, untill that point is 61%
1997 is probabbly his all time high; just a hunch from matches i have. very often in high 60s, even low 70s. i wouldn't be surprised if he had 64, 65% or so
in 2000 australian open match against agassi, frew mcmillan said that sampras averaged 60% for the last year (that is 1999), which was, he said, "slightly lower than he normally does"
so, he normally does slightly better than 60%, 61 or 62 maybe
I'm sure his average percentage was probably in the low 60s. Still I'm surprised, looking at all his Slam finals now, that he went over 60% only in five of them:

1997 AO (Moya) -- 72
2000 USO (Safin) -- 63
1993 Wimbledon (Courier) -- 62
2000 Wimbledon (Rafter) -- 62
2001 USO (Hewitt) -- 60
1999 Wimbledon (Agassi) -- 59
1997 Wimbledon (Pioline) -- 59
2002 USO (Agassi) -- 57
1998 Wimbledon (Ivanisevic) -- 55
1996 USO (Chang) -- 55
1995 USO (Agassi) -- 54
1995 Wimbledon (Becker) -- 54
1990 USO (Agassi) -- 53
1995 AO (Agassi) -- 51
1994 Wimbledon (Ivanisevic) – 50

(these are taken from my own counts or from boxscores in the press)

Interesting that the 97 AO coincides with your observations about '97 being probably his best year. Plus he had that amazing Wimbledon where he dropped his serve only twice in the tournament.
 
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JasonZ

Hall of Fame
Agassi won fewer points than Ivanisevic in the 1992 final: 179 vs. 195, just a huge difference.

And Agassi won fewer points when he beat Sampras at the 1995 AO: 151 vs. 154.

(All stats from the ATP).

this is wrong. agassi won 4 more points than ivanisevic in 1992 final.
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
In their '98 final Goran had those two set points to take a 2-set lead. On both points I've got Sampras missing his first serve and then serving to Goran's backhand. And Goran missed both returns.

but these were two weak second serves from sampras, goran missed easy shots. also at 8-8 on the deuce court another average second serve from sampras to the backhand, and another miss by goran.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Well, first of all you jogged my memory - the 2001 Wimbledon final was one of the most amazing matches of all time. Besides the 2000 and 2001 Wimby finals - two serve and volleyers is not much fun - the Rafter factor?

To answer your question re 1999? Well that's one of my favourite matches. Before the semis, I told friends that if Pete played Andre, Pete would win because he can come to the net and match Andre from the baseline, that proved to be the case in the most spectacular way for Pete.

On grass, the best matches have been an attacker vs baseliner:

2000 semi- Rafter v Agassi
2001 semi - Rafter v Agassi
1997 semi - Pioline v Stich
1995 semi - Becker v Agassi
1993 quarterfinal - Sampras v Agassi
1997 final - Hingis v Novotna
2004 semi - Serena Williams v Mauresmo

Plus other matches that escape my mind, those were the best matchups on grass.

What about Federer vs. Sampras or Federer vs. Nadal 07?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
this is wrong. agassi won 4 more points than ivanisevic in 1992 final.
Source? Or did you count them manually? The ATP website says 179 for Agassi and 195 for Ivanisevic, out of 374 points played.

but these were two weak second serves from sampras, goran missed easy shots. also at 8-8 on the deuce court another average second serve from sampras to the backhand, and another miss by goran.
Goran was suicidal from these shots for a while. He took it very, very badly. I even remember his dad saying afterwards "he had it, and then threw it away".
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
Source? Or did you count them manually? The ATP website says 179 for Agassi and 195 for Ivanisevic, out of 374 points played.


Goran was suicidal from these shots for a while. He took it very, very badly. I even remember his dad saying afterwards "he had it, and then threw it away".

also there are videos on youtube of this match. when there was 4-4 in the fifth set, there were shown the points won by both players. both won same numbet of points. after that agassi won 8 and ivanisevic 4.
 
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