my stats Federer had 54 non-service winners: 28 fh, 6 bh, 7 fhv, 10 bhv, 3 ov Nadal had 38: 25 fh, 9 bh, 2 fhv, 1 bhv, 1 ov Federer had 9 aces, no doubles Nadal had 4 aces, 1 double Federer had 22 unreturned serves, 2 i judged service winners Nadal had 30, 1 i judged a service winner Federer had one passing shot winner, a fh Nadal had 13(6 fh, 7 bh) Federer was 55 of 74 at net(74%) he was 3 of 4 on S&V attempts Nadal was 16 of 25 at net(64%) he was 1 of 1 on S&V attempts Nadal made 1st serves on 9 of 10 break points Federer 5 of 9 TC stats Federer - 70 winners, 89 unforced errors Nadal - 46 winners, 60 unforced these were TC stats on the '06 Monte Carlo final Federer - 65 winners, 78 unforced Nadal - 44 winners, 39 unforced

2007 Monte Carlo: Federer – 19 winners, 38 UE Nadal – 19 winners, 19 UE The '06 Monte Carlo, Fed's differential comes out to -13, which is actually a little bit better than all his RG matches with Nadal until yesterday. Yesterday he nearly broke even (differential was -3). In their fastcourt meetings Federer typically has positive differentials, like at '06 and '07 Wimbledon. But it's true even in the ones he loses, like '08 Wimbledon (+37) and '09 AO (+7).

That's a great stat for Nadal, one of the best in all our matches. According to the ATP his success on 1st serve was 68%, and on second 53%. So it made some difference, getting the first ball in.

Also should add their first-serve percentage per the ATP, in this Rome match. Nadal - 85% Federer - 62% That's higher than Nadal has served in any of his RG finals.

He concentrated on getting his first serve in yesterday also and it was very effective. I think he knows in a groundstroke rally on red clay that he has the advantage over Federer.

It's true, he's served in the 70s every time he's met Federer at RG. 2005 - 73% 2006 - 77% 2007 - 77% 2008 - 75% 2011 - 72% Interesting that Nadal has an edge in "free points" on serve, 34-31.

One of the things that stands out in the Rome match is the break points. We're always talking about Federer's poor conversion rate (eg, 1 of 17 in the '07 RG final), but in this Rome match Federer's conversion rate was a little higher than Nadal's. Nadal - 3/9 (33%) Federer - 4/10 (40%) Problem was he couldn't convert his two match points.

Thanks I was looking for those stats. Here's two others, Federer's only two claycourt victories. He broke even in each one. 2007 Hamburg Federer - 31 winners, 31 UE Nadal - 20 winners, 34 UE 2009 Madrid Federer - 25 winners, 25 UE Nadal - 12 winners, 16 UE

PC1, I've been thinking of doing those stats you mentioned. It's not a category of stats Moose and I have done but I might take one of the Fed-Nadal matches, maybe one of their short ones, to get that stat. I wasn't just thinking of the return errors, I was wondering in general who wins the points depending on where the serves are directed. I'm sure that both players have good success when swinging their serves out wide to each other's backhands, but I'd be interested in getting the actual numbers -- or finding them somewhere.

ABMK divided up return errors by wing in two of their matches. I can't recall right now any other place I've seen that done, including in all our stats on this board. 2006 Masters Cup: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=294238 2007 Masters Cup: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=293142