Stats for 89 matches (1959-2008)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by krosero, May 18, 2008.

  1. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    [We’re up to 158 matches now].

    Since 2007 some of us have been counting stats in old and new matches. We now have stats for [158] men’s and women’s matches going back to Wimbledon in 1959.

    Below I’ve listed all the data, according to the highest rate of winners hit by an individual player in an individual match. For example, the highest rate we’ve found so far belongs to Stefan Edberg, who hit an average of 2.045 winners per game in his semifinal victory over Mats Wilander at the 1990 Australian Open.

    Just below Edberg is a rate of winners by Steffi Graf in the 1988 Wimbledon final, then a rate by Roger Federer, etc.

    There are two lists, organized according to:

    1) rate of winners per game, not including aces or service winners
    2) rate of winners per game, including aces

    These lists can be slightly misleading because they present averages per game, and certain matches have unusually long or short games. So I’ve included a column where I provide, if I know it, all the points played in the match. That way you can see how many winners a certain player hit, out of the total points played. I’ve included that information as a percentage.

    For example, Edberg finished 35% of all the points played in his match with his own winners.

    In some cases we don’t know what the player did on a few points missing on our copies. In those cases you’ll see the percentages in italics and a smaller font.

    When 4 points or more are missing from a match, I haven’t bothered with providing these percentages. In those cases you’ll see at least one game listed in the column for “Games Not Watched”.

    Whenever any games are listed as unwatched, the winners “per game” means only the games we actually watched, not the total number of games played.


    Points of clarification:

    1) All the winners and aces presented here are clean winners. We have tried not to include any balls that the opponent touched with his or her racquet before the second bounce, no matter how slightly. This is an objective way to count, avoiding judgment calls.

    2) As such, these lists don’t include service winners. We did count service winners for some matches. But the difference between an ordinary return error and a service winner is a judgment call, and we were not able to find an agreed-upon method of counting. Service winners have often been included in the total winners reported for a given match; however, they have not always been counted the same way. In some matches, the players are officially credited with very few service winners; in others they have more; in still others, all the service return errors are counted as service winners. We’ve even found one instance where the term “service winners” included the aces, so even terminology is not fixed. It’s an issue we’re still looking at and we’re happy to get any help on it – especially since the official counts of service winners are rarely reported. There is no quick way to get a lot of data on service winners and analyze it. To know how many service winners are in the published count for a given match, you either count the clean winners yourself and subtract from the official total of all the winners, or contact the statistician.

    3) There are very few women’s matches in the lists, because when I first started doing these stats I wanted to stick to the men, just to keep things as simple as possible. When the Graf-Navratilova final at Wimbledon 1988 was uploaded to YouTube, I casually counted the winners, just to see what would happen. To my surprise, Graf had a higher rate of winners than any men’s performance that I knew about at the time. So I proofed and included the data, and did another Graf match for comparison. I did a few others in order to check published numbers that looked incorrect. (One of the most interesting things about this project has been the number of mistakes we’ve found in official counts). Since then we’ve done more, but the women’s matches in these lists are few and far between, and not chosen with any consistent rule in mind. We did a lot of men’s matches though the only “rule” or goal we had in mind was to do a lot of famous matches in our personal collections.

    4) We counted all of these winners ourselves. The only place we use stats from other sources is when we don’t have the total number of points in the match, though often we got that number ourselves.


    The following is a chronological list of all the matches. I did the stats myself, unless otherwise noted.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
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  2. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Winners per game

    This is the first chart, arranged according to winners per game – not including aces or service winners of any kind.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
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  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Winners/aces per game

    Below is the second chart, presenting an average of winners per game – including aces.

    Edberg, without any aces in his best performance, gives up the top spot to Federer – but barely so, if you take into account the total points played.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
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  4. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    Thank you for this krosero.
    A WE SO ME!
    Very valuable.

    Lucio.
     
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  5. Nickognito

    Nickognito Rookie

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    Krosero, you're a genius
     
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  6. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I have the ace stats on Edberg-Courier. Edberg had 6 aces, 7 double faults(atp had 5 & 8, have you found them to be incorrect often?)

    Courier had 5 aces, 5 double faults.

    I will post Mecir-Edberg stats tomorrow(& Edberg had only a couple aces, so you are right about being skeptical about those 11 winners)

    The first chart is interesting, there is such a dropoff in the winner ratio from the Edberg & Graf matches to the rest of the matches. When you add aces, it gets a lot closer.

    I'm wondering what other matches are out there that have ratios of 1.9(or 1.7 to 1.8 for that matter) non service winners per game.

    also, any reason you didn't include your stats on Mecir-Becker?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
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  7. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I've seen a few discrepancies with my stats, all of them minor. In the '96 TMC final I gave Becker 32 clean aces, and the ATP has 30. They gave Connors and Krickstein 8 aces each while I have them at 9 and 7, respectively. (In both cases the TV network counts support mine). And I gave Sampras 12 aces (as did SI) in the '98 W final, while the ATP had 11.

    There are other problems with Courier-Edberg, though.

    I found this in the Miami Herald and the San Jose Mercury News (see this page).

    The ATP has different numbers on the following.

    1st-serve %: 57 and 63
    % won on 1st serve: 78 and 70
    % won on 2nd serve: 45 and 26
    Total points won: 144 and 123
    Edberg's aces: 5

    Aces are one thing, because judgment calls might be involved. But the other stats shouldn't have any discrepancies. The percentages won on first serve are off by only one point and that could be attributed to rounding up or down; but the rest are significantly off, especially the total points won.

    I would go with the ATP stats because they break down their total points into several categories, and all their numbers add up. I'm presuming, then, that the count in the newspaper is incorrect -- but it would be interesting to do our own count and see which one is wrong.

    If it's the newspaper, no big deal. But if the ATP figure for total points is off by that much, that's a problem, because we've been using their stats so often.

    Good catch, I had no idea; I just had never added that data to the chart.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
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  8. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Found another error on the atp site, they list Mac as having 4 aces & 7 doubles vs Courier at the '92 USO, while I counted 5 & 8.

    Also, I just thought of another match that would probably be near the top of your list, Gonzalez was credited with 42 winners in 23 games vs Haas at the '07 AO.
     
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  9. ojingoh

    ojingoh Rookie

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    Guys,
    Great work.

    Is this data available as a spreadsheet? upload to Google Docs? Putfile/rapidshare/etc?
     
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  10. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Haven't done that; at the moment I can't work on it or produce new data (there are still matches I'd like to put into the chart) but I'll keep everyone updated. I'm still checking in regularly to read the posts so anyone who has new data, post it here and I'll make a note of it.
     
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  11. Murray_Maniac

    Murray_Maniac Banned

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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
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  12. Q&M son

    Q&M son Professional

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    No problem, thanks anyway, and again.:)
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Federer-Santoro '08 AO

    We now have a men's match with a rate of winners higher than Edberg's, a 2nd-round match between Federer and Santoro this past year in Australia (6-1, 6-2, 6-0).

    Federer's published numbers were 53 winners (including service) over 21 games, per the AO site.

    By my own count, he had 6 aces and 41 other clean winners: 17 FH, 3 BH, 6 FHV, 8 BHV, 7 OH. So it looks like in the published numbers he was given winners on 6 judgment calls, most of them probably service winners.

    My count gives him a rate of 1.95 on the first chart, putting him at #3. He has 2.24 on the second chart, which would put him at #1.

    Santoro had 2 aces and 9 other winners: 1 FH, 3 BH, 3 FHV, 1 BHV, 1 OH.

    The ATP stats don't disagree with the boxscore at the AO site, except in putting Federer at 6 aces instead of 7.

    Federer had essentially the same numbers when he defeated Santoro at the 2005 AO in the first round -- 54 winners over 22 games, per USA Today, Detroit Press, St. Petersburg Times, etc. (The score was 6-1, 6-1, 6-2). I didn't watch that one but the rate of clean winners would probably not differ very much from '08.


    I updated the charts to replace bad ATP stats (for total points played), to add some missing information on a few matches, and to correct some minor mistakes I noticed in my original counts (e.g., the 1981 W final).

    There are still only 89 matches in the charts. I haven't yet added any of the 28 matches we've done since then.
     
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  14. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Another update to the charts. I took out Wilander-Cash at the 1988 AO, the match in which I used already available stats, in this case from ESPN. The network gave specific stats for winners from ground strokes and volleys, but Leo Levin told me recently that such stats do include judgment calls and are not necessarily all clean winners. And in the 80s I've found a few stats for winners that were inflated because many judgment calls were made. So there’s no way to know whether ESPN made judgment calls or, if so, how many.

    In place of Wilander-Cash, I put Mecir-Becker (’86 USO), the match I’d forgotten to include in the original post.
     
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  15. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I've updated this thread now to 158 matches. I corrected some data from the original 89 matches, and threw in these new ones:

    Ashe d. Okker 1968 USO final
    King d. Evert 1971 USO SF
    Ashe d. Roche 1975 Wimbledon SF
    Borg d. Nastase 1976 Wimbledon final
    Connors d. Borg 1978 USO final
    Borg d. Connors 1979 Wimbledon SF
    Borg d. McEnroe 1980 TMC SF
    McEnroe d. Borg 1980 USO final
    Borg d. McEnroe 1981 TMC round robin
    McEnroe d. Borg 1981 USO final
    Navratilova d. Evert 1982 Wimbledon final
    Connors d. McEnroe 1982 Wimbledon final
    Connors d. Lendl 1984 Wimbledon SF
    Lendl d. Cash 1984 USO SF
    McEnroe d. Lendl 1984 USO final
    Evert d. Sukova 1984 AO final
    Wilander d. McEnroe 1985 Roland Garros SF
    Wilander d. Lendl 1985 RG final
    Becker d. Kriek 1985 Queens final
    Becker d. Curren 1985 Wimbledon final
    McEnroe d. Wilander 1985 USO SF
    Edberg d. Lendl 1985 AO SF
    Edberg d. Wilander 1985 AO final
    Becker d. Leconte 1986 Wimbledon SF
    Navratilova d. Mandlikova 1986 Wimbledon final
    Navratilova d. Evert 1987 Wimbledon SF
    Navratilova d. Graf 1987 Wimbledon final
    Becker d. McEnroe 1987 Davis Cup relegation
    Graf d. Zvereva 1988 RG final
    Edberg d. Becker 1988 Wimbledon final
    Chang d. Edberg 1989 Roland Garros final
    Becker d. Lendl 1989 Wimbledon SF
    Becker d. Edberg 1989 Wimbledon final
    Sampras d. McEnroe 1991 U.S. Pro Indoor, SF
    Courier d. Agassi 1991 Roland Garros final
    Edberg d. Courier 1991 USO final
    Agassi d. Sampras 1992 Roland Garros QF
    Seles d. Graf 1992 RG final
    Ivanisevic d. Edberg 1992 Wimbledon QF
    Agassi d. Ivanisevic 1992 Wimbledon final
    Lendl d. Connors 1992 USO, R64
    Courier d. McEnroe 1992 USO, R16
    Sampras d. Agassi 1993 Wimbledon QF
    Sampras d. Courier 1994 AO SF
    Agassi d. Sampras 1995 AO final
    Sampras d. Becker 1995 Wimbledon final
    Sampras d. Agassi 1995 USO final
    Sampras d. Chesnokov 1995 Davis Cup final
    Philippoussis d. Sampras 1996 AO, R32
    Date d. Graf 1996 Federation Cup QF
    Sampras d. Moya 1997 AO final
    Sampras d. Rafter 1997 Davis Cup SF
    Sampras d. Rafter 1997 Grand Slam Cup final
    Rafter d. Sampras 1998 USO SF
    Agassi d. Sampras 2000 AO SF
    Sampras d. Rafter 2000 Wimbledon final
    Federer d. Sampras 2001 Wimbledon, R16
    Sampras d. Agassi 2001 USO QF
    Hewitt d. Sampras 2001 USO final
    Sampras d. Agassi 2002 USO final
    Federer d. Hewitt 2004 USO final
    Agassi d. Blake 2005 USO QF
    Federer d. Agassi 2005 USO final
    Nadal d. Federer 2006 RG final
    Federer d. Nadal 2007 Wimbledon final
    Federer d. Santoro 2008 AO, R64
    Nadal d. Roddick 2008 Queens SF
    Nadal d. Djokovic 2008 Queens final
    Nadal d. Roddick 2008 Davis Cup SF
     
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  16. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Good stuff. But you definitely need more balance between the men and the women. Am I missing some Court matches, Goolagong matches, Austin, Wade , Novatna, Only one King match I noticed.
     
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  17. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    @krosero :


    Federer had 61 winners(including 17 aces) in his 7-6, 6-3,6-3 win over Roddick in Wimbledon 2003 SF. (61 winners in 31 games, i.e a rate of 1.97 winners per game)
    Federer had 56 winners(including 20 aces) in his 7-5,7-5,6-4 win over Murray in Wimbledon 2005 SF (56 winners in 34 games, i.e a rate of 1.65 winners per game)
    Federer had 69 winners(including 17 aces) in his 6-2, 4-6, 7-5,6-1 win over Roddick in USO 2006 final(69 winners in 37 games, i.e a rate of 1.86 winners per game)
    Federer had 28 winners(including 6 aces) in his 6-3,6-0 win over Nadal in YEC 2011 RR match(28 winners in 15 games, i.e a rate of 1.87 winners per game)
    Federer had 40 winners(including 11 aces) in his 6-0,7-6,6-0 win over Hewitt in USO 2004 final (40 winners in 25 games, i.e a rate of 1.6 winners per game)

    Gonzalez had 42 winners(including 9 aces) in his 6-1,6-3,6-1 win over Haas in AO 2007 SF(42 winners in 23 games, i.e. a rate of 1.87 winners per game)

    Verdasco had 95 winners(including 20 aces) in his 6-7(4) 6-4 7-6(2) 6-7(1) 6-4 loss over Verdasco in AO 2009 SF ( 95 winners in 59 games, i.e a rate of 1.61 winners per game)

    He had 90 winners(including 20 aces ) in his 7-6(6) 4-6 3-6 7-6(4) 6-2 win over Nadal in their rematch in AO 2016 1R ( 90 winners in 53 games, i.e a rate of 1.7 winners per game )


    a bit surprised to see Sampras' vs Rafter in Davis Cup 97 being "only" 1.54 . I recall it being a blaze of winners from Sampras.

    Also, I'm sure
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  18. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Also, I'm sure you have a lot more matches now than you had in 2009.
    Any chance of compiling in a spreadsheet ?
     
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  19. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Certainly, certainly. Might be a couple of days before I can get to it, though.
     
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  20. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    What I'm going to do is post a new chart, essentially the same as the one above but sorted by a player's total winners/aces as a percentage of all points played in the match, rather than dividing by games. The former method is a more accurate measure, since games can vary quite a bit in length.

    Sampras against Rafter looks a little low with only 1.54 winners per game, but the games were somewhat short in that match -- an average of 5.95 points per game.

    His rate looks better with the other method: he made winners/aces on 25.9% of all points played in the match.

    I can't tell you right now how high exactly that would put his performance on the final list because I have yet to compile it, but I can tell that it's higher than with the games method.

    Bit of work to do here getting all this updated, won't be instant but hopefully won't take too long.
     
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  21. BringBackWood

    BringBackWood Rookie

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    Out of interest why did you choose to do rate per game rather than rate per point, or even rate per point won? Rate per game is inevitably a biased calculation.

    The highest rate per point won that I've found is Gerulaitis in the 77 match. About 40% of the points he won were winners. McEnroe in the 1981 final is up there as well.
     
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  22. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    ^we have gerulaitis hitting winners on 22% of the total points. We've tracked hundreds of matches over the years and 37% is the highest we've found, by Serena Williams.

    This thread is from 2008, when we were still in the early stages of collecting stats, for some of the matches we didn't even have total points. Obviously we soon realized the flaw in winners per game.
     
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  23. BringBackWood

    BringBackWood Rookie

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    Read again please mate. I said rate per point won. This makes more sense to me as it's impossible to hit a winner when you lost the point.
     
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  24. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Yeah Moose explained what happened, at the beginning we were newbies to match stats and we just counted winners to see what they might be. Only later did we make it more comprehensive and start counting total points, among many other stats.

    You mentioned looking for high rates, do you have your own database?

    I have Gerulaitis making clean winners on 78 points, out of 176 points that he won, 44.3%.

    But many of the performances we've tracked have higher rates than that. In the chart above, Federer won 87 points against Santoro, 47 of them with clean winners, a rate of 54%.

    Picking another at random, in 2002 USO final, Sampras won 75 of his 151 points, almost 50%, with clean winners.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  25. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    9-year bump on this thread, can't believe that much time has passed.
     
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  26. BringBackWood

    BringBackWood Rookie

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    I've done a few matches, and deliberately picked matches known to have a high winner count (at least from one player). None you have not already covered.

    You mention the 02 us open final. Because of my interest in high winners is the enjoyment, I don't count aces as winners in my mind, which from a tennis standpoint is of course ridiculous. I use the stats only as a measurement of the likely enjoyment factor. There are other factors. Federer's rate of 54%, while hugely impressive, would be ten times more impressive against a better (and younger) player. Let me say then that Gerulaitis's rate against Bjorn Borg no less, is the most impressive rate I know.

    I have another match I watched recently that could be of interest. The official stats of Gasquet - Gonzo AO 09 gave 166 total winners. Not having kept count myself; I am highly sceptical of that count because although the rate of winners was very high in the 1st 3 sets, I definitely felt the rate dipped in the next 2.

    What are your highest total winner counts in a match (from both players)?
     
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  27. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ok understood.

    I don't have all our matches compiled yet, but I've got most. Here's two lists.


    The first is top matches, in terms of percentage of points in the match that ended with a clean winner/ace:

    Kohlschreiber d. Roddick..........2008 AO, R32..........27.67%..........48.70%

    Navratilova d. Evert..........1987 Wimbledon SF..........45.41%..........47.45%

    Agassi d. Roddick..........2004 Cincinnati SF..........23.79%..........45.63% (edit to fix date)

    Edberg d. Wilander..........1985 AO final..........36.47%..........45.29%

    Sukova d. Navratilova..........1984 AO SF..........40.57%..........44.81%

    Becker d. Sampras..........1996 TMC round robin..........24.47%..........44.68%

    Federer d. Santoro..........2008 AO, R64..........38.46%..........44.62%

    Cash d. Wilander..........1987 Wimbledon QF..........40.80%..........44.25%


    The second is the same thing but defining winners without aces, which is what I think you're looking for:

    Navratilova d. Evert..........1987 Wimbledon SF..........45.41%..........47.45%

    Sukova d. Navratilova..........1987 Eastbourne final..........42.14%..........44.03%

    Edberg d. Wilander..........1990 AO SF..........41.73%..........44.09%

    Graf d. Navratilova..........1988 Wimbledon final..........41.14%..........44.00%

    Cash d. Wilander..........1987 Wimbledon QF..........40.80%..........44.25%

    Becker d. Edberg..........1989 Wimbledon final..........40.76%..........43.48%

    Edberg d. Mecir..........1988 Wimbledon SF..........40.58%..........42.21%

    Sukova d. Navratilova..........1984 AO SF..........40.57%..........44.81%

    Mandlikova d. Navratilova..........1985 USO final..........38.53%..........42.86%

    Federer d. Santoro..........2008 AO, R64..........38.46%..........44.62%
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
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  28. BringBackWood

    BringBackWood Rookie

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    @krosero wow thanks for doing that; Interesting that most of the matches are from the 80's (optimum racket and court conditions for tennis perhaps, or maybe reflective of the matches you have watched.)

    what are your highest for total winner counts in a match, ignoring rates? I would think Isner Mahut would be the highest as that was over 200.
     
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  29. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Possible about rackets and conditions, but I think the safest thing to say is that it's reflective of the matches we've watched.

    I would think Isner/Mahut would top that list. In the matches we've charted, I don't have my Excel file set up to track the highest absolute numbers of winners in a match, but maybe I'll try to set that up next week, after I compile an updated list of everything.
     
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  30. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Been logging additional matches that Moose has been giving me, will have an update soon.

    One astounding little stat in the new data is in Curren-Harmon (1983 Wimbledon, R32, 6-4, 7-5, 6-2): only 5.10 points per game in that match, the lowest I've ever seen.

    Next lowest I have is Federer-Nadal, 2007 Masters Cup, 6-4, 6-1, only 5.12 points per game.
     
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  31. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ok here's what we've got so far

    [​IMG]
     
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  32. NatF

    NatF Bionic Poster

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    Excellent stuff. Will look properly when I'm at my laptop.
     
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  33. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    thats pretty interesting. didn't realize the Curren match was going that quickly while I was watching it. what were some of the longest points per game matches you've come across?
     
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  34. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    These are the highest averages I've made note of


    Goolagong-Court ...... 1971 Wimbledon final ...... 6-4, 6-1 ...... 8.35

    Kuerten-Norman ...... 2000 RG final ...... 6-2, 6-3, 2-6, 7-6 (8-6) ...... 8.32

    Federer-Tsonga ...... 2014 Monte Carlo QF ...... 2-6, 7-6 (8-6), 6-1 ...... 8.25

    Murray-Kunitsyn ...... 2010 Dubai R32 ...... 6-2, 6-3 ...... 8.06

    V. Williams-Sharapova ...... 2007 Wimbledon R16 ...... 6-1, 6-3 ...... 8.00

    Moya-Corretja ...... 1998 USO R16 ...... 7-6 (7-4), 7-5, 6-3 ...... 7.94

    Nadal-Soderling ...... 2009 Rome R16 ...... 6-1, 6-0 ...... 7.92

    V. Williams-Radwanska ...... 2015 AO R16 ...... 6-3, 2-6, 6-1 ...... 7.875

    Navratilova-Jaeger ...... 1982 RG final ...... 7-6 (8-6), 6-1 ...... 7.85

    Henin-Kuznetsova ...... 2007 USO final ...... 6-1, 6-3 ...... 7.75

    S. Williams-Suarez Navarro ...... 2010 AO R32 ...... 6-0, 6-3 ...... 7.73

    Borg-Gerulaitis ...... 1979 Masters final ...... 6-2, 6-2 ...... 7.69

    Rosewall-Trabert ...... 1954 Davis Cup CR ...... 9-7, 7-5, 6-3 ...... 7.68

    Navratilova-Jaeger ...... 1983 Wimbledon final ...... 6-0, 6-3 ...... 7.67

    S. Williams-V. Williams ...... 2008 USO QF ...... 7-6 (8-6), 7-6 (9-7) ...... 7.65

    S. Williams-Jankovic ...... 2008 USO final ...... 6-4, 7-5 ...... 7.64

    S. Williams-Hingis ...... 1999 USO final ...... 6-3, 7-6 (7-4) ...... 7.64

    Perry-von Cramm ...... 1935 Wimbledon final ...... 6-1, 6-1, 6-0 ...... 7.64

    Mecir-Wilander ...... 1988 Wimbledon QF ...... 6-3, 6-1, 6-3 ...... 7.64

    Djokovic-Federer ...... 2012 WTF final ...... 7-6 (8-6), 7-5 ...... 7.64

    Browne-Bouman ...... 1926 French SF ...... 8-6, 6-2 ...... 7.64


    I think with some of these it's easy to get a high average, if the match is short (only two sets); a single long game in that case can easily drive up the average.
     
    #34
  35. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    ^thanks. what are some other low points per games you have tracked? Guessing most would be on grass or hardcourt.
     
    #35
  36. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    @krosero I noticed on your chart post 31, a match is noted as Mandlikova over Evert in the final of 1988 US Open with 26 winners or 2.0 winners per game There was no such meeting at that Open at all. Could this be the 1985 semifinal?































    2

    2
     
    #36
  37. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Thanks, sharp eyes! That should be 1980 USO final.

    In the sorted (bold) column, Mandlikova's winners ended 19.59% of all the points in the match. Evert's winners ended 9.46%. (Evert's row is correctly labelled 1980.)

    I don't have the '85 semi in my database; as far as I know we don't have any of Mandlikova's wins over Evert.
     
    #37
  38. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Lowest I've made note of:


    Curren-Harmon ...... 1983 Wimbledon R32 ...... 6-4, 7-5, 6-2 ...... 5.10

    Federer-Nadal ...... 2007 Masters Cup SF ...... 6-4, 6-1 ...... 5.12

    Connolly-Hart ...... 1952 US final ...... 6-3, 7-5 ...... 5.14

    Graf-Zvereva ...... 1988 RG final ...... 6-0, 6-0 ...... 5.17

    Nadal-Gasquet ...... 2013 Paris Indoor QF ...... 6-4, 6-1 ...... 5.18

    Federer-Nadal ...... 2010 WTF final ...... 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 ...... 5.20

    McEnroe-Lewis ...... 1983 Wimbledon final ...... 6-2, 6-2, 6-2 ...... 5.21

    Lenglen-Fry ...... 1925 Wimbledon final ...... 6-2, 6-0 ...... 5.21

    Connors-Haarhuis ...... 1991 USO QF ...... 4-6, 7-6 (7-3), 6-4, 6-2 ...... 5.29

    Navratilova-Evert ...... 1979 Wimbledon final ...... 6-4, 6-4 ...... 5.30

    Federer-Roddick ...... 2007 AO SF ...... 6-4, 6-0, 6-2 ...... 5.333

    Agassi-Ferrero ...... 2003 Masters Cup RR ...... 2-6, 6-3, 6-4 ...... 5.333

    Agassi-Schuettler ...... 2003 AO final ...... 6-2, 6-2, 6-1 ...... 5.35

    Isner-Mahut ...... 2010 Wimbledon R128 ...... 6-4, 3-6, 6-7 (7-9), 7-6 (7-3), 70-68 ...... 5.36

    Djokovic-Nadal ...... 2011 Wimbledon final ...... 6-4, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3 ...... 5.36

    Sampras-Rafter ...... 1997 GS Cup final ...... 6-2, 6-4, 7-5 ...... 5.3666

    Nadal-Djokovic ...... 2012 Monte Carlo final ...... 6-3, 6-1 ...... 5.375

    Evert-Navratilova ...... 1982 AO final ...... 6-3, 2-6, 6-3 ...... 5.3846

    Tilden-Lott ...... 1935 Scranton pro tour match ...... 6-3, 6-3 ...... 5.388

    Agassi-Rafter ...... 1995 AO, R16 ...... 6-3, 6-4, 6-0 ...... 5.40

    Marble-Wynne ...... 1938 US final ...... 6-0, 6-3 ...... 5.40

    Federer-Nadal ...... 2011 WTF RR ...... 6-3, 6-0 ...... 5.40

    Ivanisevic-Krajicek ...... 1998 Wimbledon SF ...... 6-3, 6-4, 5-7, 6-7 (5-7), 15-13 ...... 5.42

    Tsonga-Federer ...... 2011 Wimbledon QF ...... 3-6, 6-7 (3-7), 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 ...... 5.42

    Federer-Del Potro ...... 2013 Paris Indoor QF ...... 6-3, 4-6, 6-3 ...... 5.43

    Lendl-Wilander ...... 1985 Tokyo Indoor final ...... 6-0, 6-4 ...... 5.44
     
    #38
  39. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    By the way I think I've posted this before but the average number of points per game (or tiebreak) in my dataset is 6.4.

    6.37, to be precise, in the modern data set (OE).

    In sum, we have 258 matches in which the average points per game was 6.37 or higher (going as high as 8.35 in Goolagong-Court).

    And we have 258 matches in which it was 6.37 or lower (going as low as 5.10 in Curren-Harmon).

    That number -- 6.4 -- remains remarkably constant throughout eras, even in my pre-OE data set, though I don't have those exact numbers at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    #39
  40. xFedal

    xFedal Hall of Fame

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    Is 69 the most winners Fed has hit at USO and on Hard courts? Do you have the stats for Nalbandians most winners in a match and Nadals?
     
    #40
  41. abmk

    abmk Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer hit 54 winners in USO 2004 QF vs Agassi
    69 winners in USO 2005 F vs Agassi
    59 winners in USO 2005 SF vs Hewitt
    59 winners in USO 2006 QF vs Blake
    69 winners in USO 2006 F vs Roddick
    66 winners in USO 2008 4R vs Andreev
    51 winners in USO 2008 SF vs Djokovic
    64 winners in USO 2009 QF vs Soderling
    56 winners in USO 2009 F vs Del Potro
    56 winners in USO 2015 F vs Djokovic

    These are the ones where he hit more than 50. I don't think I've missed any.

    On HCs in general, will have to go through a whole lot more matches.

    Rafa had 49 winners vs Djokovic in USO 2010 final.
    But his highest at USO was 52 winners vs Pouille last year in USO 2016 4R

    You can check from tennis.matchstat.com -- using h2h b/w the players.
     
    xFedal likes this.
    #41

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