Stefanos Tsitsipas will beat Nadal

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Tsitsipas vs Nadal

  • Nadal in 2

    Votes: 35 59.3%
  • Nadal in 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tsitsipas in 2

    Votes: 20 33.9%
  • Tsitsipas in 3

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
Take out Nadal and Thiem wins the RG , Two RG Semis in a row , He’s basically just waiting for Nadal to decline to take the RG

I am not sure.Lets say Thiem went to the final the last year - would he have won against Stan.I dont think so.Thiem needs to improve to win RG.Nadal absence will not guarantee him RG title if he stays on this level
 
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Yeah, like playing tennis instead of stat-ing and emoji-ing this board into the mental infirmary. Get out on the courts much, @Meles ???
Not in about 5 years. The knee surgeries were mounting. Peak Meles was about 150 hours on court over six weeks.;) Retooled my grips and game to emulate Fed of all people just before the recent sabbatical.:D
 
I am not sure.Lets say Thiem went to the final the last year - would he have won against Stan.I dont think so.Thiem needs to improve to win RG.Nadal absence will not guarantee him RG title if he stays on this level
Thiem would have mauled Stan. The whole half with Wawrinka and Murray last year was a joke once Zverev got bounced.
 
Tsitsipas as well hasn't lost a set in Barcelona
R64 - Corentin Moutet - 137
R32 - Schwartzman - 17
R16 - Ramos-Vinolas - 40
QF - Thiem - 7
SF - Carrena Busta - 11
F - Nadal - 1

Four straight victories over high quality clay courters.:eek: Average rank 19 if you throw out the first round.
He needed the 1R Moutet annihilation to stoke the emotional bonfire. Pretty bad blood as juniors in that rivalry, mostly the French teen's fault for being bush league by quitting a losing match two points away from Tsitsipas winning.

It was also revenge for the Brest Challenger final loss in November.
 
cc check back in a few as I'm going to do some statistical ANALysis just for you.;) This kid may have the best early clay stats of any player.:eek:

LOL. You do all of these stats and watch nothing but tennis day in and day out and yet, you are one of the worst predictors on this board whereas I can watch a few key matches and get most of the picture most of the time. :confused:
 
Thiem would have mauled Stan. The whole half with Wawrinka and Murray last year was a joke once Zverev got bounced.

Wawrinka and Murray fought for hours for the prize of getting destroyed by Nadal in the final.Seriously I hope Thiem fares well at RG this year.His start of the clay season hasnt been very good
 
Tsitsipas will beat Rafael Nadal in the Barcelona Open Final, or at least take a set. Tsitsipas and Nadal are the only two men who have yet to drop a set in the Barcelona Open. If Tsitsipas cannot beat Nadal tomorrow, I think he will someday. However, Tsitsipas does have a one handed backhand, so that may be trouble for Stefanos...

Only god could take down nadal on clay and he abandon the human race along time ago
 
The Ledger Legend of Tsitsipas:(
1. 56.1% points won on clay this year - (Nadal career 56.0%, Djokovic 54.0% are the best since 1991)
2. 56.7% points won at Barcelona against the best clay courters (Nadal 58.0% this week against a much weaker path in Barcelona)
3. 46.0% return points won (Nadal career 46.6%, Coria 45.8%, Djoko 43.5%) Nadal 50.2% in Barcelona this week
4. 68.1% serve points won (Federer career 67.0%, Nadal 66.1%) Nadal 67.7% this week
5. 75.9% first serve points won (Federer career 74.5%)

vs early Nadal:
2006 Barcelona/Monte-Carlo 56.2% points won (Tsitsi at 56.1% for both events with MC loss to Goffin)
2005 Barc/MC 58.7% points won (Nadal 2018 59.6%)

vs peak Kuerten (Acapulco and Monte-Carlo 2001):
1. 55.7% points won (Tsitsi 56.1%)
2. 77.0% first serve points won (Tsitsi 74.0%, but higher first serves in for Titsi)
3. Both at 68.1% serve points won
4. 44.2% return points won (Tsitsi 43.5%)

With a bad loss to Nadal Tsitsipas's numbers could swoon a bit, but still these are great numbers by any standard especially the serve numbers.

Tomorrow's final may not be a walk in the park for Nadal.:eek: @cc0509 approved ANALysis.;)
 
LOL. You do all of these stats and watch nothing but tennis day in and day out and yet, you are one of the worst predictors on this board whereas I can watch a few key matches and get most of the picture most of the time. :confused:
LOL. You probably think Dimitrov is good on clay because he made SF at Monte-Carlo and have doubled down on Glassikori.:D I can't remember if its you or TA whose been on the Raonic clay train for years.:rolleyes:
 
LOL. You do all of these stats and watch nothing but tennis day in and day out and yet, you are one of the worst predictors on this board whereas I can watch a few key matches and get most of the picture most of the time. :confused:

At first I didnt like Meles but recently I began to like him more and more.Very rare case where I change my view on certain users.I also have watched tennis since I remember myself and I am not very good predictor at all
 
He needed the 1R Moutet annihilation to stoke the emotional bonfire. Pretty bad blood as juniors in that rivalry, mostly the French teen's fault for being bush league by quitting a losing match two points away from Tsitsipas winning.

Wow, that's seriously disgusting behavior! Glad Tsitsipas beat him.

As for tomorrow's match, anything is possible but I expect more unbeatable play from Rafa. Can't wait for this final.
 
Tsitsi will shock the world and push Nadal in the first set before losing 5-7. But then, Tsitsi will get tired and the compassionate Nadal will try to energize the exhausted Tsitsi by feeding him a breadstick.

7-5, 6-1 Nadal.

If Tsitsi wins more than 8 games, then I will sell everything that I have and blow it on a vacation. Because that will mean that the end of the world is near.
 
Statistics are tea leaves at best so far in the season, but give a general feel for the level of a players. Time to break down this matchup like I did for Thiem and PCB (both predicted Tsitsi in 2 @cc0509 ;)). How do the players games match up.

Tsitsipas strengths:
1. Has goated against high spinners Gasquet and Thiem this year so he should play extremely well against Nadal.
2. First serve. Had three aces in a row against ARV and saw some 226 kph serves against PCB (140 mph):eek:
3. Forehand - can hit through anyone on tour including Nadal, may be hard to read
4. Return - great reach should help against Nadal first serve and won 36% first serves against Shapo on clay who has a hooky lefty serve as well
5. Backhand - a raking spinny, deep shot that seems to go deeper under pressure. Against righty backhands its been highly effective. One of the keys to taking to Nadal is having the ability to attack his forehand and keep him honest. The Tsitsipas backhand is ultra reliable so it may defy Nadal and another poster pointed out that Nadal has a worse record against one-handed backhands despite his infamous abuse of the Federer backhand.
6. Going from defense to offense - surprising depth when really stretched allows Tsitsipas to often take advantage of the next shot and suprise the opponent with a winner.
7. According to some posters Tsitsi has great point construction like Kuerten. To me Stefanos plays like Federer in his dreams on clay. He's a very, very different style of clay courter from Nadal or Thiem.
8. Tough under pressure - very easy for Tsitsi to fall back on a grinding game plus he always has #6 above.

Tsistsipas weaknesses:
1. Take time away from him on both sides and he becomes very ordinary. PCB and ARV failed at this task (their forte) because they couldn't keep it up without UEs creeping in due to Tsitsipas heaviness and depth. On clay its difficult to expose Tsitsipas in this manner, but Nadal was very aggressive with his court position against Goffin today so he'll have a shot at this, but his heavy spin will actually slow his balls through the air and see Tsitsi strength #1 above (goats against spinny players).
2. Lefties - you could see it with ARV's lefty forehand doing some damage to the Tsistsipas backhand. The great question for this match is will Nadal be able to hit winners off the Tsitsi backhand. Trading cross court shots alone may not work. Tsitsipas is a very crafty player on clay so he may be able to exploit Nadal's leftiness to counteract this seeming mismatch.
3. Stamina - was forced into some grinding rallies late in the match with Busta that left him in some kind of Del Potro Del Possum mode (perhaps even more dangerous than the Del Possum). Needless to say this may become an issue for RG and would be in a three setter with Nadal.

This could be the recipe for an amazing upset.:p
 
At first I didnt like Meles but recently I began to like him more and more.Very rare case where I change my view on certain users.I also have watched tennis since I remember myself and I am not very good predictor at all
cc loves me even coined the term Zedzilla:
giphy.gif

On the Zedzilla front he's fifth in return games won on clay this year at 43% so look out if his serve from last year shows up.:eek: 6-1, 6-4, 6-4 loss to Nadal in Davis Cup nts given the recent Nadal maulings.
 
Statistics are tea leaves at best so far in the season, but give a general feel for the level of a players. Time to break down this matchup like I did for Thiem and PCB (both predicted Tsitsi in 2 @cc0509 ;)). How do the players games match up.

Tsitsipas strengths:
1. Has goated against high spinners Gasquet and Thiem this year so he should play extremely well against Nadal.
2. First serve. Had three aces in a row against ARV and saw some 226 kph serves against PCB (140 mph):eek:
3. Forehand - can hit through anyone on tour including Nadal, may be hard to read
4. Return - great reach should help against Nadal first serve and won 36% first serves against Shapo on clay who has a hooky lefty serve as well
5. Backhand - a raking spinny, deep shot that seems to go deeper under pressure. Against righty backhands its been highly effective. One of the keys to taking to Nadal is having the ability to attack his forehand and keep him honest. The Tsitsipas backhand is ultra reliable so it may defy Nadal and another poster pointed out that Nadal has a worse record against one-handed backhands despite his infamous abuse of the Federer backhand.
6. Going from defense to offense - surprising depth when really stretched allows Tsitsipas to often take advantage of the next shot and suprise the opponent with a winner.
7. According to some posters Tsitsi has great point construction like Kuerten. To me Stefanos plays like Federer in his dreams on clay. He's a very, very different style of clay courter from Nadal or Thiem.
8. Tough under pressure - very easy for Tsitsi to fall back on a grinding game plus he always has #6 above.

Tsistsipas weaknesses:
1. Take time away from him on both sides and he becomes very ordinary. PCB and ARV failed at this task (their forte) because they couldn't keep it up without UEs creeping in due to Tsitsipas heaviness and depth. On clay its difficult to expose Tsitsipas in this manner, but Nadal was very aggressive with his court position against Goffin today so he'll have a shot at this, but his heavy spin will actually slow his balls through the air and see Tsitsi strength #1 above (goats against spinny players).
2. Lefties - you could see it with ARV's lefty forehand doing some damage to the Tsistsipas backhand. The great question for this match is will Nadal be able to hit winners off the Tsitsi backhand. Trading cross court shots alone may not work. Tsitsipas is a very crafty player on clay so he may be able to exploit Nadal's leftiness to counteract this seeming mismatch.
3. Stamina - was forced into some grinding rallies late in the match with Busta that left him in some kind of Del Potro Del Possum mode (perhaps even more dangerous than the Del Possum). Needless to say this may become an issue for RG and would be in a three setter with Nadal.

This could be the recipe for an amazing upset.:p
I’m giving you a sympathy like because I feel sorry for your fingers that typed all that just for Nadal to give him a bagel and a breadstick.
 
cc loves me even coined the term Zedzilla:
giphy.gif

On the Zedzilla front he's fifth in return games won on clay this year at 43% so look out if his serve from last year shows up.:eek: 6-1, 6-4, 6-4 loss to Nadal in Davis Cup nts given the recent Nadal maulings.


There is too much hate for Zedzilla here dont you think.And he have taken more games from Nadal than anybody else in this clay season.True in 3 out of 5 set match but still
 
Lol, no variety at all, Tsitsipas can hit heavy topspin and great angles on his backhand, it's like Gasquet's except better against high balls and he is taller than Gasquet.

And, btw, statistically one handed backhand players actually have a marginally higher win percentage than two handed backhand players against Nadal on clay.
So does your presence in this thread mean you rate the Tsitsipas backhand the GOAT one-hander on clay?:eek:
 
There is too much hate for Zedzilla here dont you think.And he have taken more games from Nadal than anybody else in this clay season.True in 3 out of 5 set match but still
His serve is just a lot worse and he's playing much more defensively. What is stupid on TTW is everyone of course things JCF was a coaching God and Zverev has attitude problems when of course the absolute reverse is the case as this kid has lived and breathed tour tennis (as in on it with his brother) from a very young age and is one of the hardest workers. Serve velocity and stats have swooned inexplicably. Eventually that should come around because no one has peaked at serving at age 20.o_O
 
It will be great achievement if the kid takes a set. I just feel Nadal is too experienced to lose two sets.
This is the interesting factor. Can Nadal without Moya this week figure out and expose the seemingly invulnerable Tsitsipas clay game? I suspect he's going to go heavy to the Tsitsi backhand and somehow I think Tsitsi is pretty used to that gag.

One of the advantages for Tsitsipas on clay right now is nobody has figured him out.
 
This is the interesting factor. Can Nadal without Moya this week figure out and expose the seemingly invulnerable Tsitsipas clay game? I suspect he's going to go heavy to the Tsitsi backhand and somehow I think Tsitsi is pretty used to that gag.

One of the advantages for Tsitsipas on clay right now is nobody has figured him out.
I think Nadal has won too many matches on clay to not be able to find a way if he had trouble. Many young baseliners can’t handle shorter rally balls well. I have a feeling Nadal will try to draw him in if he can’t beat him from baseline. Besides it is not like Nadal will even need to change his game. His spin can open up the angels like nobody else. It is entirely possible, that his forehand will not have a problem.
 
Will you please stop calling this guy "Zedzilla" when he's never made it past R4 of a major? Unless you mean this version...
tenor.gif


He won 2 Masters 1000 beating ATG.He deserved this name though his results since September 2017 havent been very good with the exception of the last 2 tournaments
 
The Ledger Legend of Tsitsipas:(
1. 56.1% points won on clay this year - (Nadal career 56.0%, Djokovic 54.0% are the best since 1991)
2. 56.7% points won at Barcelona against the best clay courters (Nadal 58.0% this week against a much weaker path in Barcelona)
3. 46.0% return points won (Nadal career 46.6%, Coria 45.8%, Djoko 43.5%) Nadal 50.2% in Barcelona this week
4. 68.1% serve points won (Federer career 67.0%, Nadal 66.1%) Nadal 67.7% this week
5. 75.9% first serve points won (Federer career 74.5%)

vs early Nadal:
2006 Barcelona/Monte-Carlo 56.2% points won (Tsitsi at 56.1% for both events with MC loss to Goffin)
2005 Barc/MC 58.7% points won (Nadal 2018 59.6%)

vs peak Kuerten (Acapulco and Monte-Carlo 2001):
1. 55.7% points won (Tsitsi 56.1%)
2. 77.0% first serve points won (Tsitsi 74.0%, but higher first serves in for Titsi)
3. Both at 68.1% serve points won
4. 44.2% return points won (Tsitsi 43.5%)

With a bad loss to Nadal Tsitsipas's numbers could swoon a bit, but still these are great numbers by any standard especially the serve numbers.

Tomorrow's final may not be a walk in the park for Nadal.:eek: @cc0509 approved ANALysis.;)
awesome
 
Will you please stop calling this guy "Zedzilla" when he's never made it past R4 of a major? Unless you mean this version...
tenor.gif
I'm doing the Zedzilla (@cc0509 is the mastermind behind Zedzilla and now apparently a dance;)) as this match reminds me so much of the eve of Rome last year where everyone thought Djokovic would win. The stats have certainly aligned with Tsitsi's even better and he'll need it because this is Nadal at or near his best, not Pepovic.:rolleyes:

Claysipas matches up well with Nadal to boot except for the lefty/righty thing. Its time for my prediction and further imaginings of how this match will go:
1. Nadal must angle Tsitsipas off the court, but this won't be easy with the Tsitsipas depth and heaviness
2. Tsitsipas needs great first serve numbers, but the only player to get near 70% of first serve points won against Nadal was Thiem when he destroyed Nadal in Rome. Tsitsi would have to come close.
3. Not many have won over 50% of their 2nd serve points so Tsitsipas would be lucky to get to 50% and its probably going to be 45%.
4. Given Tsitsipas will be broken multiple times by Nadal he must be able to break Nadal. Its doubtful Tsitsipas will be able to dominate on 2nd serve points so the key will be for him to play the Nadal first serve really well (like Thiem in Rome) with great depth on the returns. Tsitsipas definitely has the game to do this.
5. In the rallies I see Tsitsipas keeping Nadal at bay some with his depth on the backhand, but the key for Stefanos will be taking advantage of the Nadal short balls and opening up the court with his own magic.

Tsitsipas in 2 (he's in trouble if this goes to a 3rd). Tsitsipas will be loving the Nadal groundies and do rather well teeing off on them. Nadal must angle Tsitsipas off the court, but this is the danger as Tsitsipas digs out tough shots with great depth and lesser angles will allow him to respond with his own magic as the angles will open up the court for him. Nadal might elect to grind to the Tsitsi backhand, but short balls will likely result in extreme aggression by Stefanos and his forehand will hit through Nadal with ease. Nadal will try to be very aggressive with his own serve games, but Tsitsipas depth will have him coughing up UEs. Nadal's conservative return game will not be enough against Tsitsipas who will be able to work his offense with ease. Nadal will be forced into more aggression hugging the baseline and going for more depth, and thus will leak some UEs as well. A really bold pick, but I think Stefanos will show up with his A game for his time in the limelight.:p
 
Nadal will ruthlessly expose both the Greek's BH and his lack of stamina. Rafa feasts on one-handed BH's on clay ( I know... "duh!") Tsitsipas hits 98% of his BH's cross court with no variety at all. Nadal will absolutely eviscerate this pattern of play. The kid has had a great week and congrats to reaching his first 500 final, but it will be a beat down. Great learning experience for T, though!
I’d agree wholeheartedly.

Good point especially about Tsitsipas’ preference for CC BHs. Nadal will hammer that like there’s no tomorrow and then blast forehands down the line.

I’d say Nadal 6-2, 6-3.
 
Nadal will ruthlessly expose both the Greek's BH and his lack of stamina. Rafa feasts on one-handed BH's on clay ( I know... "duh!") Tsitsipas hits 98% of his BH's cross court with no variety at all. Nadal will absolutely eviscerate this pattern of play. The kid has had a great week and congrats to reaching his first 500 final, but it will be a beat down. Great learning experience for T, though!
Is this just fraudulent transference? Rafa on clay actually has a worse record against one-handers.
 
35% think that Tsitsipas will win in 2? Nice one...

I'm hoping that but the odds must be like 5-10% :D

Hope it's a good match most of all.
 
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