Steffi had what Serena & Nole lacked

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R. Schweikart

Professional
Young generations of tennis fans often forget what pressure Steffi Graf was under in the final of the USO 88, on the threshold of winning the "Grand Slam". In retrospect everything seems so clear - Steffi was the best player that year, so the "Grand Slam" must have been a foregone conclusion.
But her opponent Gabriela Sabatini had beaten her in 2 of 3 matches that year. After winning the first set Steffi lost the second, the pressure mounted.

We saw Serena turning into a nervous wreck in the USO 15 semis against Roberta Vinci.
We saw today how Novak Djokovic fell apart in front of this huge mountain.

But Steffi suddenly had ice in her blood and steel in her spine. And pulled it through.
That's why she is the GOAT.
 

tex123

Professional
Young generations of tennis fans often forget what pressure Steffi Graf was under in the final of the USO 88, on the threshold of winning the "Grand Slam". In retrospect everything seems so clear - Steffi was the best player that year, so the "Grand Slam" must have been a foregone conclusion.
But her opponent Gabriela Sabatini had beaten her in 2 of 3 matches that year. After winning the first set Steffi lost the second, the pressure mounted.

We saw Serena turning into a nervous wreck in the USO 15 semis against Roberta Vinci.
We saw today how Novak Djokovic fell apart in front of this huge mountain.

But Steffi suddenly had ice in her blood and steel in her spine. And pulled it through.
That's why she is the GOAT.
Erm she had a crazy knife wielding fan to help her dominate.
 

puppybutts

Semi-Pro
Steffi didn't have a global competitive tennis scene to go up against. People always cherry pick that Serena benefitted from modern fitness, but ignore that the tennis scene is way more competitive and highly trained today than it was back then. And the pressure with modern media compared to back then is way higher too, Steffi didn't play under nearly the same pressure. Much more media obligations, records shoved in your face, fans clamoring for selfies, social media comments everywhere, low life gamblers sending you death threats when you cost them their bet, the list goes on and on.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Young generations of tennis fans often forget what pressure Steffi Graf was under in the final of the USO 88, on the threshold of winning the "Grand Slam". In retrospect everything seems so clear - Steffi was the best player that year, so the "Grand Slam" must have been a foregone conclusion.
But her opponent Gabriela Sabatini had beaten her in 2 of 3 matches that year. After winning the first set Steffi lost the second, the pressure mounted.

We saw Serena turning into a nervous wreck in the USO 15 semis against Roberta Vinci.
We saw today how Novak Djokovic fell apart in front of this huge mountain.

But Steffi suddenly had ice in her blood and steel in her spine. And pulled it through.
That's why she is the GOAT.
She would have been destroyed if the draws were mixed and she had to play against Becker, Edberg, Lendl, Wilander etc that year.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
Steffi didn't have a global competitive tennis scene to go up against. People always cherry pick that Serena benefitted from modern fitness, but ignore that the tennis scene is way more competitive and highly trained today than it was back then. And the pressure with modern media compared to back then is way higher too, Steffi didn't play under nearly the same pressure. Much more media obligations, records shoved in your face, fans clamoring for selfies, social media comments everywhere, low life gamblers sending you death threats when you cost them their bet, the list goes on and on.

You have no idea.
At least in women's tennis the world-wide interest was far higher in 1988 than in 2015.
 
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Lebsta

Rookie
I honestly feel Steffi isn’t appreciated enough amongst the current fans. Yes Serena is GOAT but Steffi was a phenomenon and of course remains the only calendar slam winner for now
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
Steffi had done it when she was really young.Thats the main difference . As great as somebody like Novak he looked tired today.Those extra hours he spent prior to the final hurt him badly today.Come on he is not 25 years old anymore.
 
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R. Schweikart

Professional
I honestly feel Steffi isn’t appreciated enough amongst the current fans. Yes Serena is GOAT but Steffi was a phenomenon and of course remains the only calendar slam winner for now

Serena is the GOAT?
Only in your dreams and maybe for Americans.
In about 5 or 10 years from now even US media will have accepted Steffi.

Was the same with Graf/Navratilova shortly after Steffi ended her career in 1999. For a few years the US media claimed that Navratilova was greater than Steffi. From about 2010 on no one did that anymore.
 

Lebsta

Rookie
I loved Steffi and grew up watching her domination. To me she is the archetypal female tennis player. But to say that Serena isn’t greater is either just hatred or denial
 

puppybutts

Semi-Pro
You have no idea.
At least in women's tennis the world-wide interest was far higher in 1988 than in 2015.
lol what a joke. anyway this debate has been done ad nauseam for too long, no point in arguing with someone with that profile picture. forgot not to join these types of threads.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
I loved Steffi and grew up watching her domination. To me she is the archetypal female tennis player. But to say that Serena isn’t greater is either just hatred or denial
To say Serena is greater than Steffi is either just hatred or denial.
Golden Slam, just 1 slam less, far better winning percentage (89.3 vs. SJW's 84.9), 8 times year's best (SJW 5), at least 6 slams on every surface (SJW 3).
All-time-great opponents from the start to the end.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
She wouldn't have won a single game against any man in the draw. If people want to mix the competitions that is the reality they have to face.
Exactly, which is why they shouldn't even try to compare her to Djokovic. She would have been crushed by the first man she met in her golden slam year. Becker, Edberg, Wilander and Lendl would have made mince meat out of her if she had stepped onto the court with them. Keep women's and men's accomplishments separate.
 

Thetouch

Professional
Steffi was only 19 at that time and had won like what 4 or 5 slams in total. She didn't have the overall pressure to win all 4 and nobody to be compared with. As for Djokovic the whole world was watching, the internet/social media (another thing that didn't exist then) also puts additional pressure, he had to be compared to Laver and it was unthinkable that he would lose the match anyway. Why Graf is even mentioned in the CYGS topic is beypnd me, I am sure it never crossed Djokovics mind that he had to follow Graf, it was all about Laver and the GS record.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
As far as pressure is concerned, Bo3 is more nerve wracking.
Lol, I still remember the accusations of “majoring in minors” when Novak was winning so many masters but fell short at the slams. Now it turns out he was winning the hardest matches ;) :-D :-D
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
She wouldn't have won a single game against any man in the draw. If people want to mix the competitions that is the reality they have to face.
QFT. I remember that famous Serena interview where they asked her how she would fare against Murray and she was basically like "i would lose 6-0 6-0 in 5-10mins" and how it's a completely different sport and although that was an EG against Murray, it would be true against pretty much any male ATP player. Hell she wouldn't beat a guy in the top 1000, let alone the top 100.

Djokovic was 1 match away from doing it and he had to play the 2nd and 3rd best players on the tour right now back to back to do it. He didn't lack anything, he just had a bad match at the absolute worst time. He still won 3 slams, beating Nadal at his pet slam to get one of them so yeah.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
Steffi didn't have a global competitive tennis scene to go up against. People always cherry pick that Serena benefitted from modern fitness, but ignore that the tennis scene is way more competitive and highly trained today than it was back then. And the pressure with modern media compared to back then is way higher too, Steffi didn't play under nearly the same pressure. Much more media obligations, records shoved in your face, fans clamoring for selfies, social media comments everywhere, low life gamblers sending you death threats when you cost them their bet, the list goes on and on.
What do you know about the pressure Steffi had in 1988?

BTW, I don't think any female tennis player received more death threats than Steffi Graf.
 

R. Schweikart

Professional
QFT. I remember that famous Serena interview where they asked her how she would fare against Murray and she was basically like "i would lose 6-0 6-0 in 5-10mins" and how it's a completely different sport and although that was an EG against Murray, it would be true against pretty much any male ATP player. Hell she wouldn't beat a guy in the top 1000, let alone the top 100.

Djokovic was 1 match away from doing it and he had to play the 2nd and 3rd best players on the tour right now back to back to do it. He didn't lack anything, he just had a bad match at the absolute worst time. He still won 3 slams, beating Nadal at his pet slam to get one of them so yeah.
Djokovic choked on the threshold of a Grand Slam. He broke under pressure.
He lost 46 46 46.
 
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bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I looked up the 1988 U.S. Open draw, and based on scores, Steffi didn't ever seem to have a tense moment thinking about it. Yeah, she dropped the middle set in the final to Sabatini, but promptly beat her down 6-1 in the final set.

All of her other matches were complete drubbings. I did not know, or forgot, that she got a walkover v. Evert in the semis. Maybe Chris could have made Steffi think about it.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Hall of Fame
She wouldn't have won a single game against any man in the draw. If people want to mix the competitions that is the reality they have to face.
This goes without saying but nevertheless we have experts here claiming that Hingis would beat peak Djokovic and Federer.
 

ChrisG

Professional
Graff is the goat no matter how many slams Serena will finally win. Like Federer and Novak, there’s more to it than just statistics. Dominance and inspiration are two separate components of goat status, Novak and Serena only share the first one, but fail to inspire (despite all the bs narrative from the Serena marketing team).
 
Steffi had what Serena & Nole lacked
. . let's see .... :unsure: ...hmmm....how about,

- A proboscis that (while lying down on one's back) could serve as a two-car garage.
- Fanbois who aren't adverse to stabbing a rival player who was cutting into (no pun intended) their win total
- Acting as tax cheats (or in Stephanie's case: like 'Vater' like 'Tochter')
- A spouse who wore phony hair on their scalp as a faux-edgy fashion statement
- A mutual admiration society with Rennae Stubbs (I guess Der fräulein in question didn't so much 'stub her toe' as she did Stubb her 'toe'.
"mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

 
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