Stiff racquets and recoil weight

[Allcourtguy]

Hello all,
Setting aside technique and biomechanics for a moment, I am wondering if increasing recoil weight would help to reduce arm shock from a stiffer racquet? Specifically, adding blutac or tungsten putty inside the buttcap, or maybe adding a little at 12 in the hoop?

Thanks in advance for your input,
AllCourtGuy

 

[CopolyX]

When you customize a racquet by adding lead tape, you reduce the vibration frequency.
More mass is more difficult to accelerate into vibration, and the racquet will therefore feel softer.
The degree of vibration reduction will depend on where you add the weight.
If you add it to a vibration node (just below the middle of the head or at the top of the hand on the grip) the frequency will change very little, if at all.
If you add it near the tip or the middle of the racquet, vibration will decrease more.

Also remember, tennis is not about just one thing...
If I eliminate your note about, player's form.
You still have to remember that the ball hits the strings...that is anther key factor for impact absorption ....
Also when executing self racquet customization..
Smart, logic, slow baby steps..
I see (an have helped) way too many players over customize and it equates to more harm than good....

 

[carbonti]

I see (an have helped) way too many players over customize and it equates to more harm than good....

Can you elaborate a little on this? I too customize my racquets and although I think I am doing my customizations with an overall plan and purpose, I’d never view as inconceivable that I could shoot myself in the foot in the process by over customizing.

What looks like it might be a good mod to make, on paper, may not translate into something that works, or helps any, when actually swinging the racquet. At least that’s how I think it applies to my level of skill and ability. But that doesn’t stop me from trying to maximize my racquet for my game by futzing with it.

It is quite possible not to know that “less is more” or not to know how far when “a little dab will do ya”.

Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Well most stiff rackets are light. They produce power by being easy to swing and not absorbing much ball energy due to their stiffness. That means your arm has to absorb more of the energy. Adding weight will definitely limit the amount of absorption the arm has to make but it also produces a heavy stiff racket. That's a recipe for rocket launching and is a reason the manufacturers don't make heavy stiff rackets.

It's all about balance. The lighter the racket the stiffer it has to be to get the ball over the net. The heavier the racket the the more flexible it needs to be to absorb some ball energy and keep the ball in the court. This is assuming relative similar swing speeds.

You can even things out with string tensions if you want as well. But by the end of all the customization you've likely created a different racket you could have purchased stock any way.

 

[esgee48]

Don't blindly go out and modify your frames. You need to know what are your current specs [on the frame you like the most] before your start changing a spec to something you think you need. While others may disagree, the MgR/I thread at least provides some guidelines as to what you should be striving for. The magic number probably is not 21 as the author posits, but the double pendulum method optimization does seem to work, though as I said, it may not be 21. A more drawn out process is trial and error. Add lead, trial. If you don't like it, remove lead and add it somewhere else. FWIW, my MgR/I numbers range between 20.8-20.9.

 

[CopolyX]

Can you elaborate a little on this? I too customize my racquets and although I think I am doing my customizations with an overall plan and purpose, I’d never view as inconceivable that I could shoot myself in the foot in the process by over customizing.

What looks like it might be a good mod to make, on paper, may not translate into something that works, or helps any, when actually swinging the racquet. At least that’s how I think it applies to my level of skill and ability. But that doesn’t stop me from trying to maximize my racquet for my game by futzing with it.

It is quite possible not to know that “less is more” or not to know how far when “a little dab will do ya”.

Thanks in advance for your response.

In a nut shell, lots of players self customizing do not have a plan, the patience to correctly test the weight added. Most just add too much weight and deal / try to adapt...results...form is effected...
TWU gives a good guide to help with this.

Cons:
Adding too much weight can harm your arm / excessive weight causing injury. More specifically, it may strain your wrist. Moreover, using lead tape may throw you off your game if the added weight is not symmetrical.
If it is asymmetrical, then the racquet will lean on one side as you thrust it forward when it should not do so.
Challenge:
The goldilock principle - getting the weight jut right - not too heavy - just right for your game, your body and your frame....

 

[travlerajm]

Yes. Adding weight to butt of racquet will always make impact softer and spinnier. Will this help your tennis? Don’t know. But it will definitely reduce shock from the impact because it lengthens the distance between the impact point on the stringbed and the balance point. The more mass you add to the butt, the spinnier and softer the impact will feel.

 

[Simplicius]

More mass is more difficult to accelerate into vibration, and the racquet will therefore feel softer.

Sorry my friend CopolyX, I disagree with that as a whole conclusion...
While I completely agree that "More mass is more difficult to accelerate into vibration" (meaning that when you add mass - mainly on the hoop the vibrations are reduced) I disagree that "the racquet feel softer"...
Imho when we add weight on the hoop - mainly on the 12, the racquet plays much stiffer,due to inertia (resistance to easily flex)...
Of course this kind of (let's call it "actual", not static) stiffness can't be mesured with the RDC tool.

Edited: Turn to red and bold and added the text in the parentheses....

 

[CopolyX]

Sure you can disagree all you want but lead in the hoop does not effect the racquet's stiffness. Stiffness can not really be customized...
More weight above (middle to top) will reduce vibration, which may feel softer ...depending on the players hands / sensitivity .
Static stiffness is measured on a RDC device. Adding mass doesn't effect static stiffness, but should be mentioned that stringing a frame will drop the measured RA by 2-3 digits..

 

[AlpineCadet]

When you customize a racquet by adding lead tape, you reduce the vibration frequency.
More mass is more difficult to accelerate into vibration, and the racquet will therefore feel softer.
The degree of vibration reduction will depend on where you add the weight.
If you add it to a vibration node (just below the middle of the head or at the top of the hand on the grip) the frequency will change very little, if at all.
If you add it near the tip or the middle of the racquet, vibration will decrease more.

Also remember, tennis is not about just one thing...
If I eliminate your note about, player's form.
You still have to remember that the ball hits the strings...that is anther key factor for impact absorption ....
Also when executing self racquet customization..
Smart, logic, slow baby steps..
I see (an have helped) way too many players over customize and it equates to more harm than good....

Does increasing recoil weight, like counter-balancing 4 grams at 12 o'clock with 8 grams in the buttcap decrease power potential of a frame? I wonder because the tip speed of a frame can easily negate power when serving. Not sure about ground strokes.

 

[gazz1]

I understand that stringing lowers racket stiffness, but I wonder why?
Out of curiosity, does it have anything to do with the weight of the strings, or is it more a case of the forces being applied to the frame by the strings?

 

[Karma Tennis]

I understand that stringing lowers racket stiffness, but I wonder why?
Out of curiosity, does it have anything to do with the weight of the strings, or is it more a case of the forces being applied to the frame by the strings?

Think about it this way.

Lets say you have an unstrung frame. You hold each end and try to bend the frame. Now do the same thing with the strung frame.

You will probably notice it is easier to bend the strung frame. This is because the tension forces being applied to the frame by the string help you to bend the frame because they are cumulative with the physical force you are applying when you bend the frame. (Those string tension forces do not exist in an unstrung frame for obvious reasons.)

 

[chrisb]

Is this post about flex of rackets? Every racket flexes at impact, causing a loss of power. No racket and string combo are matching in moment of impact and moment of recoil. In every case the moment of recoil of the strings come before the moment of recoil of the frame. Adding weight has no impact on either strings or racket as far as the research I have read in impact or recoil. A stiffer frame means you lose less power then a more flex frame, you never gain power from frame recoil

 

[Deleted member 756272]

I wish I saw this before my wrist injury last season and sold a bunch of stiffer and lighter frames.

I've found thru trial and error, there is a minimum recoil weight my wrist requires to use a tennis racket that is stiff or light.

For stiffer frames (like the Pure Aero), I needed to hit a RW of 170-180. For light and flexible frames, the RW could be lower (lowest being 155).

For example, I could not hit with a stock Ultra Tour or Pro Staff 95 and felt pain on every groundstroke. After bumping up the RW to 160 for these lighter, flexier frames, I was able to use them.

 

[AlpineCadet]

What I noticed with my modified PS97L frame was a huge difference in spin potential when adding more weight to the handle and 12 o clock position. It felt like I made a frame of an RDC flex of 70 feel like 65. Just wonders. But for the naysayers, don't ask me for specifics of my lead tape. You guys obviously know what I am talking about, based on all your posts and comments. Anyway.. merry holidays

 

[fuzz nation]

What I noticed with my modified PS97L frame was a huge difference in spin potential when adding more weight to the handle and 12 o clock position. It felt like I made a frame of an RDC flex of 70 feel like 65. Just wonders. But for the naysayers, don't ask me for specifics of my lead tape. You guys obviously know what I am talking about, based on all your posts and comments. Anyway.. merry holidays

I struck upon a drastic improvement in getting a softer feel with a pair of Volkl O10 325g's when I leaded them a few years ago. I placed lead tape at 3/9 o'clock - a few grams total - along with several grams on the handles to get the balance up to around 10-11 pts. HL.

Comparing the stock frame with the leaded one was an eye opener. I've always liked a heavier frame and expected to feel at home with more stability in the leaded racquet. The extra stability was there, but the leaded frame also had that "bow-whup" feel that I associate with more flexible racquets. It really came alive for me. The stock O10 just didn't have that - same string layout, but no lead added yet.

That difference you mentioned above where it felt like your PS97L dropped from a flex rating of 70 down to 65 sounds a lot like what happened for me with these Volkls. They were disappointing in their stock form and I decided to try these experiments before unloading them. But when the feel and performance transformed so well, they gained a permanent spot in my bag.

Nice to know that these experiments can sometimes help, but there's no guarantee that every racquet can be improved. I also picked up a more current generation of this same racquet - the V-Sense 10 325g - and tried a similar treatment with the lead tape. No luck. Different experiments with lead on the same spots as with the O10's seemed to only make them worse. In stock form with semi-soft string, they're not that bad, but the leading surprisingly did not bring any fo that soft feel to life here.

 

[Karma Tennis]

What I noticed with my modified PS97L frame was a huge difference in spin potential when adding more weight to the handle and 12 o clock position.

Polarising a racquet in this manner can certainly make it feel softer and whippier. Can work really well for a clean hitter who can hit the centre axis of the string bed consistently. But errors resulting from off centre hits can be magnified, especially if the player doesn't possess a long fast stroke. Volleying can also be tricky with such a configuration.

YMMV.

Compliments of the Season to one and all.