Stop standing so close to the net in doubles, it's too easy to defeat!

FuzzyYellowBalls

FuzzyYellowBalls

Legend
Ah, doubles, time to warmup for the match AND.....once again.....my opponents warm up their volleys with their body 1 or 2 inches from the net. So, immediately I know it's a day of destroying them with lobs. They always warmup too close and give me the key to victory in the first 5 minutes.

Here's what it will look like over and over, me lobbing to the backhand side, them jacking it up somehow or my partner and I taking the dominant net position after they chase down the lob.....

These opponents were around UTR 8 I'd say, super fast, even got some to some lobs and had a tweener on one of mine! But, how could they not know how to play tennis, the basics of where to stand for volleys? They were 20 year olds so very fast and very recently must have had a lesson or pro as a junior , mid 20s, both served and volleyed and could pick up amazing volleys off their feet as they came in, but even with signals, meh, who cares, I just lob lob lob over the net guy and it nullifies it all. My partner did regular groundies, but during a rally as they both planted their butts 1 inch from the net, I could half volley a lob over them from the service line.

I can lob the ball wherever I want it to land off good serves, with the accuracy of a large garbage can lid as the target, I can hit that target all day long, over and over, missing a few and getting overheaded if the serve is really good, that happens like 10% of the time. the other 90% I am completely neutralizing the aggressive serve and volley doubles team or signal users. It was working so well we got up to a 5-0 lead before they started adjusting a little, but still standing too close, the servers just stopped coming in and prepared for my lobs, then I adjusted and went crosscourt.

As you see in the video standing that close makes it harder to poach harder to poach. I can more easily tell you will poach if you have to start sprinting sideways to get there, instead of diagonally which allows for more disguise, but really it lob city anyway.

Oh, I forgot! Stand too close to the net and you also leave a giant gaping hole in the middle of the court if you partner is still back. I just can't make my brain digest how very good players could be that bad at a basic tenet of doubles positioning.
 
KingCarlitos said:
When your partner is serving you stand closer so you can poach the return, But when you are receiving you stand further back otherwise you will be crucified at the net.
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Yes, but why so generic and basic advice for a nuanced annoyance I have? As mentioned, these players should know to not stand 1 inch from the net when their partner is serving, then the video kind of explains where to stand for the other scenarios.
 
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LOBALOT said:
I was kind of thinking the same. Anyone who has played any amount of dubs would know this.
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Yeah, glad you understood my response, on another note, do you experience this situation much? I think 70% of my matches this year featured opponents who just stand 1 inch from the net at all times, is someone teaching this or not teaching this is insane?
 
Glad to know. I dabbled in a doubles league for a few years and the coaches kept trying to force us to stand right up to the net (literally inches away).

Never felt comfortable with this postioning and thought it was just me who sucked at net, coming from a singles background.
 
FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Ah, doubles, time to warmup for the match AND.....once again.....my opponents warm up their volleys with their body 1 or 2 inches from the net. So, immediately I know it's a day of destroying them with lobs. They always warmup too close and give me the key to victory in the first 5 minutes.
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I'm guessing your opponents didn't have good overheads? Meaning that the net guy wasn't moving back to hit overheads. And the server wasn't hitting the deep overheads. They were just letting everything drop?

Anything above the net in Dubs you have to be aggressive with. Even if you miss a few. When you play a lobber, you have to at minimum play offensive enough to keep your opponents on the defensive. You can't let the lob be a neutral ball.
 
tennis3 said:
I'm guessing your opponents didn't have good overheads? Meaning that the net guy wasn't moving back to hit overheads. And the server wasn't hitting the deep overheads. They were just letting everything drop?

Anything above the net in Dubs you have to be aggressive with. Even if you miss a few. When you play a lobber, you have to at minimum play offensive enough to keep your opponents on the defensive. You can't let the lob be a neutral ball.
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They had pretty good overheads if they could get to it, but if you are 1 inch from the net, planted with cement feet, no one can get my lobs for overheads from that position, you have to conceptualize I can casually hit a lob that bounces within 5 inches of the baseline with my eyes closed, over and over and over, almost 90% of the time. In addition I can hit a lob in the perfect spot where the young athletic guy "thinks" they can get it, but it's just a teaser, one they can hit, but not hit a good overhead because I put some nasty lefty spin on the lob so it forces them to hit an overhead backhand.

The video I time stamped above gives kind of an idea of the ball I might hit so they can reach it but not hit a good hot , but I wouldn't' hit it that low.

These kids with two handed backhands are just not great at backhand overheads, but most people aren't. Like I said, they had the skills to hit a tweener on one of my lobs, they were high level, but if you can pinpoint lobs like I can off of almost any serve, no overhead will be possible , unless I am wanting you to try it, then I will place it just within reach but not easy reach and watch the chaos .

Yes , the server would let the lob drop on the baseline, then he would hit a groundstroke, but we would be ready for it at an advantage.

I also have one other skill, I want the opponent to lob back, sometimes they do. I can let a deep lob bounce and pretend it is me serving, I can take any bouncing lob that is above my chest level and hit it back like I am hitting a first serve. I'm 6'4 with a larger wingspan than my height and somehow have leaned to demolish lobs as if they were a serve with great accuracy. So I get all kinds of possible advantages with return lobs, especially against aggressive serve and volley players or signal users WHEEN they don't know how to stand for doubles.
 
FuzzyYellowBalls said:
They had pretty good overheads if they could get to it, but if you are 1 inch from the net, planted with cement feet,
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Well there you go. You can't play doubles that way.

Once they knew your "go to" shot is a lob, they should have been moving for it. Taking it as an overhead. Making you feel uncomfortable. If you're uncomfortable, you don't hit as good of a lob. That's all part of choosing to play positioned like that. If they weren't prepared (or able) to do that, then they should have changed their positioning.

What I'm saying is, standing 1-inch from the net isn't bad. But you MUST crush everything you can get to at the net. And you MUST aggressively move and position for the lob to hit the overhead. It's an uber-aggressive positioning for uber-aggressive players.
 
tennis3 said:
Well there you go. You can't play doubles that way.

Once they knew your "go to" shot is a lob, they should have been moving for it. Taking it as an overhead. Making you feel uncomfortable. If you're uncomfortable, you don't hit as good of a lob. That's all part of choosing to play positioned like that. If they weren't prepared (or able) to do that, then they should have changed their positioning.

What I'm saying is, standing 1-inch from the net isn't bad. But you MUST crush everything you can get to at the net. And you MUST aggressively move and position for the lob to hit the overhead. It's an uber-aggressive positioning for uber-aggressive players.
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Like I mentioned, they were super fast, even if they sprinted back the moment I hit it, the spot to overhead it would be at the baseline, otherwise the lob was too high for them to hit out of the air.
To give you an idea of how fast they were, once the server hit the serve and came in, was past the service line when I lobbed and I hit the lob in the corner alley over his partner's head, the server sprinted back and hit a tweener winner down the line from behind the baseline. That fast.

Even with that speed they couldn't run backwards from the net and overhead my lobs out of the air, no way. Standing 1 inch from the net is bad, I doubt many rec players would be faster than these guys.

In addition if I am returning and the net guy is standing 1 inch from the net, the space behind him is wide open for my partner to volley winners behind him. The correct place to stand is illustrated in the video.

I completely agree that one may end up 1 inch from the net to put away a shot or if the ball the opponent is hitting is deep and they are off balance, but to start from the beginning of time at the net, 1 inch away, takes away the ability to adjust and to move forward diagonally. It's bad doubles.
 
I stand in the middle of the service box when warming up volleys. That was the way I was taught where to stand. I am not surprised they were very slow to adjust their positioning. A lot of coaches teach that way. It only works if their serves are pro level and even then your counter would work very well.
 
FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Ah, doubles, time to warmup for the match AND.....once again.....my opponents warm up their volleys with their body 1 or 2 inches from the net. So, immediately I know it's a day of destroying them with lobs. They always warmup too close and give me the key to victory in the first 5 minutes.

Here's what it will look like over and over, me lobbing to the backhand side, them jacking it up somehow or my partner and I taking the dominant net position after they chase down the lob.....

These opponents were around UTR 8 I'd say, super fast, even got some to some lobs and had a tweener on one of mine! But, how could they not know how to play tennis, the basics of where to stand for volleys? They were 20 year olds so very fast and very recently must have had a lesson or pro as a junior , mid 20s, both served and volleyed and could pick up amazing volleys off their feet as they came in, but even with signals, meh, who cares, I just lob lob lob over the net guy and it nullifies it all. My partner did regular groundies, but during a rally as they both planted their butts 1 inch from the net, I could half volley a lob over them from the service line.

I can lob the ball wherever I want it to land off good serves, with the accuracy of a large garbage can lid as the target, I can hit that target all day long, over and over, missing a few and getting overheaded if the serve is really good, that happens like 10% of the time. the other 90% I am completely neutralizing the aggressive serve and volley doubles team or signal users. It was working so well we got up to a 5-0 lead before they started adjusting a little, but still standing too close, the servers just stopped coming in and prepared for my lobs, then I adjusted and went crosscourt.

As you see in the video standing that close makes it harder to poach harder to poach. I can more easily tell you will poach if you have to start sprinting sideways to get there, instead of diagonally which allows for more disguise, but really it lob city anyway.

Oh, I forgot! Stand too close to the net and you also leave a giant gaping hole in the middle of the court if you partner is still back. I just can't make my brain digest how very good players could be that bad at a basic tenet of doubles positioning.
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This has to do with the fact that these guys doesn't know how to volley or has poor technique or are afraid to volley due to their poor technique. These guys are all low level 4.0 or Below level guys. So if you have Unfortunate match where you are stuck with one of these guys as partner,, you have to change you game which means you can't really serve and volley all the time and to stay back much more than you normally would.......... :-D We all know this is not how we play at advanced doubles, we come to net as much as possible.

This is normally not a issue if you are playing against the team that can't volley and are inconsistent. but if you play against teams that has good volleying skills and are consistent,, you are screwed.:-D
 
Nostradamus said:
This has to do with the fact that these guys doesn't know how to volley or has poor technique or are afraid to volley due to their poor technique. These guys are all low level 4.0 or Below level guys. So if you have Unfortunate match where you are stuck with one of these guys as partner,, you have to change you game which means you can't really serve and volley all the time and to stay back much more than you normally would.......... :-D We all know this is not how we play at advanced doubles, we come to net as much as possible.

This is normally not a issue if you are playing against the team that can't volley and are inconsistent. but if you play against teams that has good volleying skills and are consistent,, you are screwed.:-D
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I enjoy your posts, really do, but I am confused, it seems your 3 main comments are not responding to what I wrote directly or you didn't understand what I was trying to write?

I mentioned the guys were amazing volleyers, and they were to be clear. I am seeing this in above even 4.0 level , or maybe where you are there are a lot of tweeners at 4.0 and below lol. , anyway hence the shock really that I see this at high levels.

They came to the net as much as possible, almost too much. And the point of the post is they came too close.

I don't understand completely "This is normally not a issue if you are playing against the team that can't volley and are inconsistent. but if you play against teams that has good volleying skills and are consistent,, you are screwed.:-D". Please elaborate if you have time.
 
FuzzyYellowBalls said:
I enjoy your posts, really do, but I am confused, it seems your 3 main comments are not responding to what I wrote directly or you didn't understand what I was trying to write?

I mentioned the guys were amazing volleyers, and they were to be clear. I am seeing this in above even 4.0 level , or maybe where you are there are a lot of tweeners at 4.0 and below lol. , anyway hence the shock really that I see this at high levels.

They came to the net as much as possible, almost too much. And the point of the post is they came too close.

I don't understand completely "This is normally not a issue if you are playing against the team that can't volley and are inconsistent. but if you play against teams that has good volleying skills and are consistent,, you are screwed.:-D". Please elaborate if you have time.
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i see what you mean now. OK, it rarely happens but i too seen this in some of the advanced guys that really doesn't understand the double positioning which is really hillarious. Its very simple but they are too stupid to understand it maybe ?? not sure the reasons.

but i will give you a tip. Yes i have seen this ,, when this happens,, wheni attack the net,, Middle tend to be wide open,, middle to my partner's side i mean. so what i do is i will anticipate after rushing the net that my opponents will hit hard passing shots into that middle which will look like you can drive a Truck thru....... you have to be Quick and anticipate that shot. but if you do and cover it and hit a Good volley deep into their backhand corner ,, you will likely Win that point....
well,, you say that's just one point............ Ahhhhhhhhh,, but it will have psychological effect on your opponent... and will make them try to hit cross court passing shot on the next one..... this is good because you just made them do what You want them to do.... and also you got into their heads..... this is Win win :)
 
Modern dubs is played w one partner on top of the net being super aggressive. The Bryans changed the game to this. The difference now, is that one partner stays back. I watch a ton of dubs. The Bryans admit that they were susceptible to lobs. This is where having one back helps.

Doubles players' overheads are so good today bc lobbing is a common tactic.

I play a 4.5 dubs clinic w old people who will lob a ton, especially off of reflex volleys. if you can't defend the lob, you're in trouble. If both players are coming in, then it's your job to defend the lob over your partner, by moving back cross court. If you s&v, you need to split on the return and take the lob in the air.

The coach that runs the clinic gets on you if you don't move your feet to turn backhand smashes into normal overheads.

High level doubles requires active footwork and positioning.
 
FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Ah, doubles, time to warmup for the match AND.....once again.....my opponents warm up their volleys with their body 1 or 2 inches from the net. So, immediately I know it's a day of destroying them with lobs. They always warmup too close and give me the key to victory in the first 5 minutes.

Here's what it will look like over and over, me lobbing to the backhand side, them jacking it up somehow or my partner and I taking the dominant net position after they chase down the lob.....

These opponents were around UTR 8 I'd say, super fast, even got some to some lobs and had a tweener on one of mine! But, how could they not know how to play tennis, the basics of where to stand for volleys? They were 20 year olds so very fast and very recently must have had a lesson or pro as a junior , mid 20s, both served and volleyed and could pick up amazing volleys off their feet as they came in, but even with signals, meh, who cares, I just lob lob lob over the net guy and it nullifies it all. My partner did regular groundies, but during a rally as they both planted their butts 1 inch from the net, I could half volley a lob over them from the service line.

I can lob the ball wherever I want it to land off good serves, with the accuracy of a large garbage can lid as the target, I can hit that target all day long, over and over, missing a few and getting overheaded if the serve is really good, that happens like 10% of the time. the other 90% I am completely neutralizing the aggressive serve and volley doubles team or signal users. It was working so well we got up to a 5-0 lead before they started adjusting a little, but still standing too close, the servers just stopped coming in and prepared for my lobs, then I adjusted and went crosscourt.

As you see in the video standing that close makes it harder to poach harder to poach. I can more easily tell you will poach if you have to start sprinting sideways to get there, instead of diagonally which allows for more disguise, but really it lob city anyway.

Oh, I forgot! Stand too close to the net and you also leave a giant gaping hole in the middle of the court if you partner is still back. I just can't make my brain digest how very good players could be that bad at a basic tenet of doubles positioning.
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Maybe they learned it from watching the pros?
 
I believe that orthodox doubles teaching, such as I received and have witnessed pros teaching all levels, from college-bound juniors to beginning club players, is to start some distance from the net and move forward into a split step as the serve bounces. Starting very close to the net gives you no momentum. Hopping forward to a balanced position means that you can still recover for a lob, but a lob that gets over the net player's head should only delay the point, not end it. Unless it's a shank or the partner's serve is unbelievably bad, no one can hit a topspin lob off a service return. A chip lob can be re-lobbed, overheaded from the baseline, driven with topspin, etc. Hit one of these at the net guy off a chip lob sometime:
(granted, that's an overhead off an overhead, but the same principle applies).
 
denoted said:
I believe that orthodox doubles teaching, such as I received and have witnessed pros teaching all levels, from college-bound juniors to beginning club players, is to start some distance from the net and move forward into a split step as the serve bounces. Starting very close to the net gives you no momentum. Hopping forward to a balanced position means that you can still recover for a lob, but a lob that gets over the net player's head should only delay the point, not end it. Unless it's a shank or the partner's serve is unbelievably bad, no one can hit a topspin lob off a service return. A chip lob can be re-lobbed, overheaded from the baseline, driven with topspin, etc. Hit one of these at the net guy off a chip lob sometime:
(granted, that's an overhead off an overhead, but the same principle applies).
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Yes, exactly, and if , as was the case this weekend you start 1 inch from the net, it's easier to tell f you are poaching or not, slightly more body turn and slightly more distance to cover to go straight sideways instead of at an angle.
 
ey039524 said:
High level doubles requires active footwork and positioning.
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True in a way, I have so much reach and skill though that I don't need to be that active at the net, 6'6" wingspan and thousands upon thousands of hours of tennis in my head . Does lead to bad habits though that show when I play above my head like against current college players home for the summer etc.
 
You must mean 1-2 feet from the net. If 1-2 inches from the net, my racquet would be crossing over for an illegal contact. But I take your meaning.
I would argue they do it b/c they find success. Probably most people aren't as good as lobbing high level serves as you are? I do adjust my position based on the type of returns; I would assume they would also but who knows if they were stubborn.
 
Roforot said:
You must mean 1-2 feet from the net. If 1-2 inches from the net, my racquet would be crossing over for an illegal contact. But I take your meaning.
I would argue they do it b/c they find success. Probably most people aren't as good as lobbing high level serves as you are? I do adjust my position based on the type of returns; I would assume they would also but who knows if they were stubborn.
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Probably right, but I guess they don't realize, despite me being captain lob, that it's also easier for even bad at lobbing opponents, to "guess" when they are poaching if they are that close too, you have to make a more pronounced and earlier movement sideways from that position than if you are behind the net 3-4 feet and can split step and move diagonally to . poach.

Based on feedback here and on Reddit I am beginning to think people see pros stand very close or just think it's better for volleying, surely there isn't some teaching pro out there telling people to do this though, right?
 
KingCarlitos said:
When your partner is serving you stand closer so you can poach the return, But when you are receiving you stand further back otherwise you will be crucified at the net.
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As the SP, you should start closer to the net than the RP as you indicate. However, this does not mean that the SP should start close to the net. A typical starting position is 10-12 feet (3+ meters) off the net. From this position, you should be able to move diagonally forward to poach.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
As the SP, you should start closer to the net than the RP as you indicate. However, this does not mean that the SP should start close to the net. A typical starting position is 10-12 feet (3+ meters) off the net. From this position, you should be able to move diagonally forward to poach.
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There are exceptions.

In 8.0 mixed, the 3.5F RP should start the point about 6 inches from the net. This allows her to poach on the diagonal and meet the ball 2 inches from the net after her partner’s bunted crosscourt return.

I have tested out what happens when she starts out at 12 inches from the net, and I have confirmed that it does not work.
 
Played some dubs yesterday and employed the hug the net tactic when my partner was back. Better angles, shanked some volley winners off some hard groundies, but it didn't matter bc I was on top of the net and couldn't miss. This was when we had a deep shot, I move on top of the net bc my partner can cover the lob, since he's already back.

For poaching, I have to leave room to move diagonally forward.
 
How close to stand on the net really depends on several factors. I myself am not used to hugging the net very close, even in a situation where I should have ( according to much higher level ex semi-pro coach.

I was in a friendly doubles match once where my partner was that ex semi-pro and he kept telling me to "get closer, closer". Yeah, but he was serving bullets. It's hard to hit a good lob (or any lobs for that matter) returning serves like that. Lobs will end up a sitter for me or an easy overhead for his skill level.

Then, there's a different types/level of match where one's partner has weak serves, and opponents are constant lobbers, then there's really no point to stand that close because your opponent can lob any returns easily - especially if they have good lobs.

Lastly, a slightly different scenario where the net guy was a very athletic 4.5 player, has excellent overhead, and could anticipate lobs very well. And his partner had decent serves. Then, it's not an issue to stand very close because it gave a lot of pressure to opponents. As a matter of fact, despite him standing very close to the net, his opponents almost never able to lob him. His anticipation was very good that he was always there for the overheads. Only lobs that landed near baseline escaped him.

After that friendly match with the ex semi-pro coach, I started paying attention and noticed that at the Pro doubles level, the net person also do stand very close to the net, if not inches away.

So, in short it really depends on many factors how close one should be from the net.
 
People should watch more pro doubles matches. At the ITF and challenger level, pros still play doubles with net guy positioned more like a rec player.

But the doubles specialists at the top of the game tend to stand inches away from the net and more central when partner is serving. Pro doubles has evolved since the Bryan Bro’s era. It’s a totally different way of dividing the court. And it’s remarkable how few times the returners lob, but mainly it’s because overheads and swinging volleys at that level are very good, so the server can still hit an offensive overhead off of most lobs. I would say that pros under-utilize the chip lob return.
 
One glaring difference between rec level and high level players is the overhead. It's nearly automatic for high level players. For rec and high school (I see a lot b/c of my son) players, it becomes a liability. Very few people properly practice, if not even warm up, their overheads.
 
The WTA Pro doubles is closer to rec players doubles. For one, the net person does not typically stand that close to the net. Some team lobs more often than others. In ATP doubles, lob returns is almost unheard of, except maybe from Jamie Murray. Almost none from ATP doubles is imitable at rec. But quite a few things can be learned from WTA doubles, to some degree - formation, shot choice, etc. Need to know your limitations when imitating something.

Where it differs, other than the obvious skills ...
In WTA doubles, they tend to play with one player on the baseline, similar to rec players. But, the baseliner is hitting 80+ mph FH and can hit passing shots on the dime. Their lobs are also pro-level offensive lobs landing near baseline. Good lobs are typically returned by on the rise groundstrokes by the baseline player, instead of another lobs - sometimes even winners.

In rec doubles, IMO it's beneficial to try to get both players to close in to the net - many free points due to unforced errors are earned this way because of the pressure. Unless, of course, if either partner has zero skill/confidence in volleying.

Many nuances.
 
tennis4me said:
The WTA Pro doubles is closer to rec players doubles. For one, the net person does not typically stand that close to the net. Some team lobs more often than others. In ATP doubles, lob returns is almost unheard of, except maybe from Jamie Murray. Almost none from ATP doubles is imitable at rec. But quite a few things can be learned from WTA doubles, to some degree - formation, shot choice, etc. Need to know your limitations when imitating something.

Where it differs, other than the obvious skills ...
In WTA doubles, they tend to play with one player on the baseline, similar to rec players. But, the baseliner is hitting 80+ mph FH and can hit passing shots on the dime. Their lobs are also pro-level offensive lobs landing near baseline. Good lobs are typically returned by on the rise groundstrokes by the baseline player, instead of another lobs - sometimes even winners.

In rec doubles, IMO it's beneficial to try to get both players to close in to the net - many free points due to unforced errors are earned this way because of the pressure. Unless, of course, if either partner has zero skill/confidence in volleying.

Many nuances.
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WTA doubles, with a few notable exceptions who haul in lots of slam hardware, is sort of like singles on a doubles court. It’s not a very interesting watch for me.
 
How close you stand should depend on your level, your partner’s level, your opponent‘s level, athleticism etc. Pros and sometimes the lowest level players stand the closest to the net for very different reasons. Pros stand very close because their partner’s serves/shots are too good to be lobbed easily and they are super-athletic with great overheads and can still get back to smash away most lobs - pros also stand closer to the middle for the same reason that it is not so easy to hit DTL and pass them at that level. The lowest level players (including in mixed) stand very close because their volley skills are so poor and their only chance to not make a volley error is if they stand close and block the ball over the net often with a drop volley. Usually their partner stays back and covers lobs.

If your partner is good enough to overwhelm the opponents and make it difficult to lob while you are athletic with a good overhead, you can stand closer and be aggressive. If your opponents are good enough to do what they want against your partner’s serves/shots in terms of hitting lobs or hitting DTL, then you might need to stand further from the net and closer to the alley. Sometimes you can stand closer to the net with new balls or when it is hotter because your partner’s shots are more effective and have to stand further back with old balls and in slower conditions. If an opponent is a skilled lobber or you are not very athletic to get back quickly for an overhead, you have to stand further back.

Lastly you also have to change how far back you stand based on whether your partner comes to net after his serve or not. If he stays back, he can cover lobs behind you more easily, but if he does come to net you have to be able to get back and cover lobs on your side of the court often.

There are no standard ways to say a particular distance is best. The players who always stay at the same distance irrespective of who they are playing or their partner’s quality/style or the scoreboard are often the worst tacticians. If you are winning, keep doing what you are doing, otherwise look for ways to adjust.
 
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tennis4me said:
The WTA Pro doubles is closer to rec players doubles. For one, the net person does not typically stand that close to the net. Some team lobs more often than others. In ATP doubles, lob returns is almost unheard of, except maybe from Jamie Murray. Almost none from ATP doubles is imitable at rec. But quite a few things can be learned from WTA doubles, to some degree - formation, shot choice, etc. Need to know your limitations when imitating something.

Where it differs, other than the obvious skills ...
In WTA doubles, they tend to play with one player on the baseline, similar to rec players. But, the baseliner is hitting 80+ mph FH and can hit passing shots on the dime. Their lobs are also pro-level offensive lobs landing near baseline. Good lobs are typically returned by on the rise groundstrokes by the baseline player, instead of another lobs - sometimes even winners.

In rec doubles, IMO it's beneficial to try to get both players to close in to the net - many free points due to unforced errors are earned this way because of the pressure. Unless, of course, if either partner has zero skill/confidence in volleying.

Many nuances.
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travlerajm said:
WTA doubles, with a few notable exceptions who haul in lots of slam hardware, is sort of like singles on a doubles court. It’s not a very interesting watch for me.
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imo best team to watch for rec/for me... is aoyama/shibahara
* shuko only 5'3"
* relatively speaking, neither have huge groundstrokes
* use alot of pattern play
* very aggressive at net
* communicate/work well together
* never standing still
* typically play 1up 1back... which is most common in my leagues: 4.5 and 5.0... getting 2 up at net is not an issue because of lack of general volley skills... specifically it's because of the transition volley around the service line... (aka. "first volley")
 
tennis4me said:
I only a watch certain pairings only myself. Mostly the one with a lot of dynamics - the ones exhibiting a lot of doubles-specific shots/skills.
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I get annoyed watching WTA doubles when o see 1-up 1-back for both teams, with lob over net person not leading to the lobbing team 2-up.

The best WTA doubles teams are the ones who use a better stagger with 2-up.
 
nyta2 said:
imo best team to watch for rec/for me... is aoyama/shibahara
* shuko only 5'3"
* relatively speaking, neither have huge groundstrokes
* use alot of pattern play
* very aggressive at net
* communicate/work well together
* never standing still
* typically play 1up 1back... which is most common in my leagues: 4.5 and 5.0... getting 2 up at net is not an issue because of lack of general volley skills... specifically it's because of the transition volley around the service line... (aka. "first volley")
Click to expand...

Thanks for letting me know about this team. I am really impressed by Aoyama (the shorter player)... but it seems Shibahara's net play is more realistic as she is more picky on when to poach and Aoyama's serve is relatively weaker.
Aoyama though has beastly overheads. What do you mean by pattern play? Do they practice and impliment something like 2 times crosscourt, then poach? I do wonder also about how they choose to poach. Occasionally, I see a ball or serve that has obviously forced a weaker shot, but a lot of times, I can't tell why they poach on one shot and not the one before... I do like how they're always moving, and if they can't reach the ball on the poach, they reset. There was a couple of times where they'd fake poach, and then actually poach... I'll have to try that! I agree Aoyama is fearless but not because she gets close to the net in the line of fire, but because she doesn't worry over being beaten down the line.

I can't tell if there's saying something in Japanese, but it is cute how they call out "Nenya" which I think means yours... They really do move well.

Highlights though can be deceiving. I'll have to see if I can get a full match to see/study.
 
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