Stop talking nonsense about being relaxed when hitting the ball !!!

golden chicken

Hall of Fame
In Kung Fu we say the word relax, but we don't mean turn off all muscles and fall on the floor. We mean only use the muscles necessary for the intended movement, and not use the muscles that oppose the movement.

For example, if we want to extend our arm at the elbow, we train to relax the bicep muscle and fire the triceps muscle. Some people will clench up and activate both the bicep and triceps. This feels powerful, but it is not. It's like trying to drive your car with one foot on the brakes and one foot on the gas. The engine will make more noise but you won't go as fast.
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
I wanted to puke when I read about looseness almost in all comments. Most "experts" at this forum propose a technique of throwing the racket towards the ball. And millions of players on this planet have been throwing the racket for years without gaining control.
 
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zaph

Professional
Relaxed doesn't playing half arsed and not trying. It simply means not being tense and not trying to force things. You generate far more power with good timing and a well executed shot, than you do by trying to muscle the ball.

I have been surprised ho much power, even off ball with very little pace, I have managed to generate when I have hit in a relaxed and loose way.
 

zaph

Professional
LOL lemme get some popcorn and pull up a chair
It is the great prophet of the double handed forehand come among us, to tell us we have all been doing it wrong all these years.

When he double bagels Rodger Federer we will all bow down before grzewas and the tennis establishment was be overturned.
 

FatHead250

Professional
Just because you possess an extremely inefficient and terrible style of playing tennis, you don't need to justify it to yourself by posting these videos to suit your flawed first-hand tennis playing expeience, because nom you don't actually need to be unrelaxed
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Relaxed doesn't playing half arsed and not trying. It simply means not being tense and not trying to force things. You generate far more power with good timing and a well executed shot, than you do by trying to muscle the ball.

I have been surprised ho much power, even off ball with very little pace, I have managed to generate when I have hit in a relaxed and loose way.
Tennis is not baseball. Tennis is not about power. It is more about control. I understand that you recommend to throw a racket at the ball. Post here video so that we could see how it works.
 
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grzewas

Semi-Pro
Just because you possess an extremely inefficient and terrible style of playing tennis, you don't need to justify it to yourself by posting these videos to suit your flawed first-hand tennis playing expeience, because nom you don't actually need to be unrelaxed
Maybe you could post here video when you are playing a real match so we could see how relaxed you are and what control you have. We could learn a lot from you.
 

chrisb

Semi-Pro
You push a tennis ball wrist layed back lagging racket head behind hand till contact at contact you release wrist and pronate elbow. So there must be a degree of tension on the wrist
 

3loudboys

Legend
Funny GD but my sons coach who was a former top 150 player in the world encourages my son to keep his hitting arm relaxed. Am I to disregard his experience and listen to your tucked in elbow pusher forehand shots which by your own admission are good for recs and veterans - and I say that with the greatest respect as I am a rec vet.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
I think” no arm tension” is a better choice of word. Until you learnt the real meaning of relax in tennis, you are at risk of injury and inefficient strokes.
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Funny GD but my sons coach who was a former top 150 player in the world encourages my son to keep his hitting arm relaxed. Am I to disregard his experience and listen to your tucked in elbow pusher forehand shots which by your own admission are good for recs and veterans - and I say that with the greatest respect as I am a rec vet.
What do you mean by "relaxed" ? He shouldnt hold the racket ? His biceps should be relaxed ?
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
And therein lies the issue. It is just your interpretation of the term relaxed. By the sounds of it, you're interpreting it to mean something like flaccid.
So I understand that "relaxed" means to tighten the grip just before the contact and some time after because nobody can relax muscles after several milliseconds. I begin to like this concept of relaxation. It means that so called relaxation happens before the stroke and when the ball already has no contact with the strings.
 

3loudboys

Legend
r
What do you mean by "relaxed" ? He shouldnt hold the racket ? His biceps should be relaxed ?
Relaxed means relaxed. If you're struggling with its definition then see below.

adjective
  1. free from tension and anxiety.
    "we were having a great time and feeling very relaxed"
    • (of a muscle or other body part) not tense.
      "make sure that your jaw is relaxed"
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
r
Relaxed means relaxed. If you're struggling with its definition then see below.

adjective
  1. free from tension and anxiety.
    "we were having a great time and feeling very relaxed"
    • (of a muscle or other body part) not tense.
      "make sure that your jaw is relaxed"
Now I understand everything. When you all say "relaxed" you mean that the grip should be tightened before the stroke but we should relax our jaws. Thanks. That is new for me. I would never even suspect that relaxation of jaws is so important in modern tennis.
 

Dragy

Legend
Maybe this video can help.
Some issue I see with this Intuitive Tennis guy is that his intuition lets him down too frequently...

No, seriously, will the racquet twist on off-center hits? Absolutely. Will racquet twist cause major isuues to the shot? Not that much. Ball is gone in 3-4ms, racquet twist hasn't developed to any significant degree yet.


In the meantime, off-center hits close to the frame will be bad. No matter how tight you grip the racquet.

Forearm muscle tightening is another blah-blah unproved statement:
 

a12345

Professional
Almost every single sport played at a high level has 1 common factor - relaxation. But to activate the right muscles whilst relaxed is what separates those who play at a high level, whether its football, tennis, swimming, running, baseball, boxing, golf you are at your best when youre relaxed.

Thats why pros often make things look easy, because they are so loose.
 

3loudboys

Legend
Now I understand everything. When you all say "relaxed" you mean that the grip should be tightened before the stroke but we should relax our jaws. Thanks. That is new for me. I would never even suspect that relaxation of jaws is so important in modern tennis.
You got me, the dictionary isn't written for tennis professors, but in context its right. Incidentally, you are always very relaxed when publishing your theories. Try it on your two handers.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Some issue I see with this Intuitive Tennis guy is that his intuition lets him down too frequently...

No, seriously, will the racquet twist on off-center hits? Absolutely. Will racquet twist cause major isuues to the shot? Not that much. Ball is gone in 3-4ms, racquet twist hasn't developed to any significant degree yet.


In the meantime, off-center hits close to the frame will be bad. No matter how tight you grip the racquet.

Forearm muscle tightening is another blah-blah unproved statement:
You can see each muscle of Federer forearm working hard just before the stroke. Some relaxation we can see when the head of the racket is in front of left shoulder. Not earlier.
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Look, I made a photo for you: here my arm is straight with no tightness. Do the muscles being visible proove anything to you?
Here we can see "relaxed" forearm of Federer. I should admit that I havent known the meaning of the word "relaxed".
 

Dragy

Legend
you’re confusing yourself
This vid does a good job showing what it means when you’re told to be relaxed
That "Black hole" metaphor is great. Exactly what happens - tensing up, one puts muscle effort to fight arm and racquet inertia before it going into contact and crushing the ball. More percieved "power" in the swing, much less power in the shot.
 

Dragy

Legend
Here we can see "relaxed" forearm of Federer. I should admit that I havent known the meaning of the word "relaxed".
You seem to haven't known. I just went to my mirror to test. Now I'm even more confident :cool:
If I add some grip to not let the racquet fly away, my forearm will be even more humpy. All still far away from any kind of tight gripping, like in doing weight lifting.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
Maybe this video can help.
I don’t know...I am not a fan of the way he describes it. Perhaps “firm wrist but loose grip“ is another way to describe it if you are really bothered by the word “relaxing”. I have even heard of “holding the grip like you would hold a chicken”. Your arm muscles need to be as loose as possible and not fight the incoming ball.

At the end of the day, is really what imagery works for you but I think we all understand the concept of “Relaxing”.
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
Here we can see "relaxed" forearm of Federer. I should admit that I havent known the meaning of the word "relaxed".
Federer's arm muscles are reacting to the forces felt from the impact and propelling the racquet. It doesn't mean he's actively firing his arm muscles. On the contrary keeping the arm loose maximizes RHS. If you spin a monkey drum, the limp string still get taut because of the centrifugal forces experienced, not because there is active input from the strings.

That guy who made the video in the OP is completely clueless. One of his videos even says the kinetic chain goes from the top to the ground. Clueless.
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Federer's arm muscles are reacting to the forces felt from the impact and propelling the racquet. It doesn't mean he's actively firing his arm muscles. On the contrary keeping the arm loose maximizes RHS. If you spin a monkey drum, the limp string still get taut because of the centrifugal forces experienced, not because there is active input from the strings.

That guy who made the video in the OP is completely clueless. One of his videos even says the kinetic chain goes from the top to the ground. Clueless.
What in your opinion do tightened muscles of Federer forearm we can see at this picture ? We see that these muscles work very hard. How can you tighten your forearm muscles to such a state and continue talking about looseness.
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
What in your opinion do tightened muscles of Federer forearm we can see at this picture ? We see that these muscles work very hard. How can you tighten your forearm muscles to such a state and continue talking about looseness.
Do you agree that if you spin a monkey drum, the strings will straighten out and become taut? Are there any active muscles in the string firing? Yet they become taut, how?


 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
Do you agree that if you spin a monkey drum, the strings will straighten out and become taut? Are there any active muscles in the string firing? Yet they become taut, how?


Muscles of Federer forearm are not stretched but tightly contracted.
 

grzewas

Semi-Pro
r
Relaxed means relaxed. If you're struggling with its definition then see below.

adjective
  1. free from tension and anxiety.
    "we were having a great time and feeling very relaxed"
    • (of a muscle or other body part) not tense.
      "make sure that your jaw is relaxed"
I'm going to play tennis in 40 minutes and I'll try not to clench my jaws. Thanks for advice.
 
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