Next year I will play in +60 category. I plan to be in top 50 ITF ranking. I have made tremendous progress in the last 5 years. Now I play equal matches with those with whom I was losing 6: 0 6: 1 five years ago. My two-handed forehand just gets better and so does the level of my game.
Stop talking nonsense about being relaxed when hitting the ball !!!
- Thread starter grzewas
- Start date
Happi
Hall of Fame
3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
Thanks manyou will, that off court training during Corona will boost your game
Your success would be assured if you used the "tight" technique like in this video. What is the point in being loose if they dont give points for that ?
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
OP, all your posts and those of your previous incarnation (Gregory Diamond) just seem to be an excuse to humblebrag about how good a recreational player you are and how your unique playing style is better-suited to playing tennis efficiently than the more standard techniques of top pros and the technique taught by most coaches in every country around the world. Your videos seem to show that you are a good enough player for your age group, but there are thousands of ex-pros and ex-college players who are older than you and way better than you. So, can you please stop sharing your wisdom in this tennis tips section - in other words, ‘Stop Talking Nonsense’.
You are free to start posts and openly brag about how good you are to satisfy your incredibly huge ego, but please don’t troll us and do it under the guise of discussing optimal tennis technique. For every good player I see with unconventional technique, I see a hundred good players with textbook technique and so, please don’t try so hard to to convert us.
You are free to start posts and openly brag about how good you are to satisfy your incredibly huge ego, but please don’t troll us and do it under the guise of discussing optimal tennis technique. For every good player I see with unconventional technique, I see a hundred good players with textbook technique and so, please don’t try so hard to to convert us.
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Millions of amateur tennis players try to copy technique of the best professionals. Really they copy their imagination of how the best players play. “Loose wrist” is repeated here almost in each post. There is no loose wrist when Federer , Nadal or Djokovic hit the ball. At the speed to which they accelerate the racket, they must hold the racket very tight. Especially when the ball comes into contact with the strings. Of course "tight" doesnt mean tightening all their muscles.
Speed is relative.
In the frame of reference related to the racket (i.e. the frame in which the racket rests), the ball strikes the racket at a velocity equal to the sum of the velocities of the racket and the ball relative to the ground. If a professional held the racket loosely, the racket would fall out of his hand on impact.
You can easily see how tightly you need to hold a stationary racket when approaching ball is very fast to keep it stable. That's what the guy talked about in the first video in this thread.
In the "modern technique" version that is widespread among amateurs, they avoid the effect of hitting the ball against the racket and by "throwing" the racket onto the ball, which results in a loss of control. I asked for recordings of real game from forum members. Why they don’t want to show us how “looseness” helps them in real play ? There is no answer. Why ? Maybe you can show to us how you play in a real match using loose wrist.
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beltsman
G.O.A.T.
I saw you hit a very relaxed looking one handed slice. Bad!
I know what you are talking about. It was when I approached the net. I am ashamed of this stroke but it is not my fault. My right wrist is injured and I couldnt stand the impact of the ball. It released spontaneously. Before injury I used very stiff slice. It was much better than modern slice. Ball moved forward much faster and slided when it touched the ground. Nobody could play topspin backhand when I used that slice.
beltsman
G.O.A.T.
You must use double the stiffness once you are healthy to atone for your relaxed sin.
Happi
Hall of Fame
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
The muscles have sarcomeres, the microscopic structures that generate forces to shorten the muscles. The sarcomere has two force generating structures inside: 1) the Actin & Myosin cross bridges and 2) Titin - that acts like a rubber band but probably actually folds & kinks for its elastic shortening forces. (A few years ago people thought that stretching involved tendons but now Titin is center stage in research. Make sure your references are up to date. )
Searching: sarcomere animation pictures
finds many pictures. You can go to the website with the picture by clicking on it.
Actin & Myosin. Here is an animation that shows how the sarcomeres supply "active" forces to shorten your muscles.
Titin. Wikipedia.
If you take the "Contracted" muscle and apply external forces to pull the Z Disks apart, you will lengthen the muscle and then stretch the Titin at some point.
You use Actin & Myosin and Titin all day walking around your home and reaching for things. You move slowly at home and probably don't give your rubber band Titin much of an athletic workout. But your heart is using its Titin 24-7.
If you think about Myosin sort of walking along Actin; and Titin acting like a rubber band, which do you think might shorten faster and more smoothly?
When athletes move rapidly their muscles are often shortening faster and smoothly. Athletes learn to use the stretch shorten cycle for many of their rapid motions, and that makes Titin very important. Tennis strokes. ISR on the tennis serve may be nearly all Titin. ?
grzewas, how is your mix of Actin & Myosin vs Titin for your strokes, given your injury?
Searching: sarcomere animation pictures
finds many pictures. You can go to the website with the picture by clicking on it.
Actin & Myosin. Here is an animation that shows how the sarcomeres supply "active" forces to shorten your muscles.
Titin. Wikipedia.
If you take the "Contracted" muscle and apply external forces to pull the Z Disks apart, you will lengthen the muscle and then stretch the Titin at some point.
You use Actin & Myosin and Titin all day walking around your home and reaching for things. You move slowly at home and probably don't give your rubber band Titin much of an athletic workout. But your heart is using its Titin 24-7.
If you think about Myosin sort of walking along Actin; and Titin acting like a rubber band, which do you think might shorten faster and more smoothly?
When athletes move rapidly their muscles are often shortening faster and smoothly. Athletes learn to use the stretch shorten cycle for many of their rapid motions, and that makes Titin very important. Tennis strokes. ISR on the tennis serve may be nearly all Titin. ?
grzewas, how is your mix of Actin & Myosin vs Titin for your strokes, given your injury?
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Sometimes I hit serves that way.This is how tightly a pro holds the bat to hit a HR.
Pathetic if you have to resort to: "But that's baseball, this is tennis we're talking about"
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I used to play with a 4 grip-size Head racquet and when I switched to Babolat Pure Control with the same grip size, my racquet would fly out of my hands during a serve at least a couple of times a year especially during the humid, hot months. I experimented with over grips for a couple of years trying to find a good solution to prevent racquets flying out of my hands during serves and chipping/cracking. Then my stringer mentioned that since the Babolat grip shape is different, I should try a 3 grip-size. Since I switched to the smaller grip, I have not had this issue of the flying racquet - @travlerajm
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
2:38 in first video is one of my better examples:
In tennis precision is important.This is how tightly a pro holds the bat to hit a HR.
Pathetic if you have to resort to: "But that's baseball, this is tennis we're talking about"
Not when someone guides the ball like you do.
You should ask my opponents.
Your opponents guide the ball just like you, so it make sense.
Most of them use modern technique.That is why I have won so many tournaments.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I’m playing today in the quarterfinal of my singles league playoffs. My opponent today has a huge NextGen style modern forehand - the heaviest in our league. I hope that my edge in precision will enable me to advance.
High bouncing balls are the best against players with great forehands.
3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The guy I will play in my tournament today likes pace, so I plan to soft ball him.
3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
Works really well, let him control his rockets off of no pace.
Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
Yes, there probably is a harder learning curve for modern technique. But they will surpass you if they keep practicing.
Bagumbawalla
G.O.A.T.
Just finished readind Courting Danger- about Alice Marble (1930s). She was ranked #7 in the US and her coach took her to see Harwood "Beese" White, one of the first to study the mechanics and dynamics of the game.
He watched her play for a while and said, "That's the worst tennis game I have ever seen." Marble had believed that she needed to "grip hard and hit hard", Beese showed her how to get bigger results with less effort by using smoother,
unforced (relaxed) strokes- and she went on to become the world's #1.
I think it should be obvious that, seventy years later, it is still desirable to develop a style that takes advantage of physics and use the body and its various parts to create smooth, reliable, powerful, efficient strokes.
Now, somewhere, there was another post that suggesting that "All strokes are almost the same"- and this may be true for players that have worked hard to get the most out of their game and learn to use their body mechanics to best advantage.
But having said that, I can see on the local courts that there is a much wider variety of "styles of play" than you will find on the professional circuit. Different people struggle with different assets and weaknesses. Some will never be smooth or fast or coordinated, or have great timing, or access to coaching (and so on) and, these people may never achieve a "relaxed" efficient playing style. And, to this extent, I agree with the theme of this post- being relaxed is not everything when it comes to building ones game.
If you can get to the ball in pretty good position- that helps, if you can get the ball back over the net- another good thing, if you can place the ball where you are "aiming"- not bad, if you have stamina to outlast the opponent- good, if you have some variety and can react to different situations with required stroke- a plus. So, there are all these things (and more) that may help one overcome a chunky-clunky style. A smooth tension free stroke is good to have, but there are many other aspects to the game.
He watched her play for a while and said, "That's the worst tennis game I have ever seen." Marble had believed that she needed to "grip hard and hit hard", Beese showed her how to get bigger results with less effort by using smoother,
unforced (relaxed) strokes- and she went on to become the world's #1.
I think it should be obvious that, seventy years later, it is still desirable to develop a style that takes advantage of physics and use the body and its various parts to create smooth, reliable, powerful, efficient strokes.
Now, somewhere, there was another post that suggesting that "All strokes are almost the same"- and this may be true for players that have worked hard to get the most out of their game and learn to use their body mechanics to best advantage.
But having said that, I can see on the local courts that there is a much wider variety of "styles of play" than you will find on the professional circuit. Different people struggle with different assets and weaknesses. Some will never be smooth or fast or coordinated, or have great timing, or access to coaching (and so on) and, these people may never achieve a "relaxed" efficient playing style. And, to this extent, I agree with the theme of this post- being relaxed is not everything when it comes to building ones game.
If you can get to the ball in pretty good position- that helps, if you can get the ball back over the net- another good thing, if you can place the ball where you are "aiming"- not bad, if you have stamina to outlast the opponent- good, if you have some variety and can react to different situations with required stroke- a plus. So, there are all these things (and more) that may help one overcome a chunky-clunky style. A smooth tension free stroke is good to have, but there are many other aspects to the game.
I m not understanding the Hewitt vid. There s definitely visible racquet lag with a laid back wrist. @travlerajm which portion of the stroke were u pointing out?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
His wrist stays laid back in the same angle all the way from the backswing to the ball.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
Score?
sredna42
Hall of Fame
LOL!
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I was helpless against his massive heavy forehand to do anything but pop back defensive slices. And his backhand was really awkward with lots of slice and sidespin. I got down 1-3 in first set and 2-4 in second, but was able to scrap out a 6-3, 6-4 ugly win.
Dragy
Legend
What was deciding in the end? He couldn’t press and finish you reliably? Or just missed too much trying to construct points? Or you established patterns to attack him before his weapons stroke?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I was able to defend well enough with my ugly pushing to make him hit 8-10 heavy forehands in a row (after failing to do so early in each set). In hindsight, I probably should have been more fearless about approaching the net against his backhand, although even that was awkward to reply to, and had so much vicious slice spin that when I came in it was not simple as usual to control a volley. Very uncomfortable opponent because I hardly had any opportunities to take a regular comfortable stroke on the ball.
3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah he uses woody-era techniques.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
I need a tournament update
Could you explain why other tennis players in my category, using modern technique, cant accelerate tha ball to such speed ? Does it mean that "woody-era" technique is better ?
Dragy
Legend
That's quite easy. Most players who tried in their adult/senior years to learn on their own what they thought they cracked about "modern techniques" miss crucial elements. Still we see more than one with better FHs than your 2HFH...
What is better is to be big guy with good hand-eye coordination, decades of tennis practice and healthy wrist
I lost 6:4 6:3. Third time in 5 tournaments I was beaten by the same player. Former Polish Champion. He won that tournament. This year only Polish Champions could beat me. I played in +50 category. It was my worst match because I didnt prepare my rackets as I should. I decided to play using Babolat Pure Aero(my best racket) but this racket I didnt use during last months because it was strung too hard. That is why I used in tournaments Babolat Pure Drive Rodick+. In first set it was almost impossible to generate the spin using this "board". In the second set I changed it to Babolat Pure Drive but in this racket the strings were too loose. I couldnt be surprised because I played 20 matches using this racket. My opponent played really well so I had no chance though I tried to fight. I had another problem on the court. Often I just didnt see the ball. You could ask why. Try to find the ball in this video.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
You're not as good as I thought you were. I'm not changing my strokes to mimic yours now.
Only my technique allows me to play equal matches against best players in my category in Poland. If I used so called "modern technique" I would have no chance to win even one tournament and to be two times runner-up in Polish Championships. It is my last year in +55 category so usually I compete in tournaments with younger players. Next year should be the time of great success. My style will be deadly for most players. I plan to be in top 50 ITF ranking.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah such flickering tree shadows are terrible... yet some manage to play well still.
So you agree that modern tennis technique is very difficult to learn so amateurs and older players shouldnt use it. That is what I was saying from the beginning.That's quite easy. Most players who tried in their adult/senior years to learn on their own what they thought they cracked about "modern techniques" miss crucial elements. Still we see more than one with better FHs than your 2HFH...
What is better is to be big guy with good hand-eye coordination, decades of tennis practice and healthy wrist
3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
Sounds like you should invest in 2 more Pure Aero's and make sure you get them strung before tournament. Watched the vid and I am surprised that you lost to him, didn't seem to have everything to hurt you with, and you look like the better mover. Same comment as previous match, be more aggressive with these guys and try to get them into cross court back hand rallies - you've gotta be the favourite in that pattern.
I have astigmatism so it affects me more than others. I have problems judging the distance to the ball in such circumstances. I could beat this player only if I played a great match. I will beat him next year. I played against him 3 times in tournaments this year and once in a friendly game. He will be my main opponent in +60 category so I try to get used to play at this level. I recorded all our matches to find the best tactics. This year my goal is to get used to playing at the highest level. I avoided tournaments where I would be the favorite. When I am the favorite, I almost always win.
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