stopping slippage when tying knot?

alexmcnab

Rookie
Hi
I've switched from stringing my ktour 95's with synthetic gut to Head Sonic Pro. I'm stringing it one piece tying off at 6B and 5T with a double half hitch.

I'm having a problem that I've not had before when I used synthetic gut. When tying the SS at 6B I'm doing the usual pull and arcing motion but when I arc the string it is slipping back out through the grommet and causing slack - it won't tighten against the frame. I've tried pushing my thumb on the outside of the frame but this stuff is determined. Strangely, at 5T there is no problem, it tightens and sits nicely against the frame.

I don't really want to do a parnell if possible - I appear strangely dyslexic in following how to do one.

Much appreciate any suggestions, thanks alex
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Your knots are slipping because they are too small. Live with it or switch knots. If you raise the tension you will store more tension in the string you're tying off and they will pull farther into the grommet.
 

alexmcnab

Rookie
Your knots are slipping because they are too small. Live with it or switch knots. If you raise the tension you will store more tension in the string you're tying off and they will pull farther into the grommet.
I don't think I've explained it very well...the knot is not slipping through the grommet.

I make my first half hitch and pull horizontally towards the middle of the racket. Then, then as I arc back towards the frame the string slides back through the grommet to the outside of the frame - it doesn't grip onto it like it does with synthetic.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I understand now but I would still use a Parnell knot. If you pull your first half hitch away from the grommet all your really stretching is the string in the grommet. When you relax on your pull it pulls back. Parnell does not do that rocking motion when he tightens his knot.

Here is Richard's video on tying his knot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj8ITKjnfHc&feature=youtu.be

Try this method for his knot. Tie a hold hitch and pull that half hitch until there is a small loop (about 1 cm) at the base of the grommet. Then wrap the tag end around again and go through that small loop and the big loop toward the outside of the frame. Make sure that tag end does not come out of the big loop or you end up with a VS Starting knot.
 

alexmcnab

Rookie
thank you for your advice Irvin - I watched the video and read your instructions but I couldn't manage to do it any better - still slack on the outside of the frame. I must appear very dim.:oops:

Anyway, I managed to do a double half hitch at 8B and this appears much better.
 
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Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Hi, I understand what you're saying.

The solution is a) you can increase the tension on your last pull, or b) use more of a rocking action when tightening the knot or both.

For the first half hitch or piece of any knot, you actually want to pull tension away from the frame toward the center of the racquet. This will pull some of the slack from outside the frame out.

Then, without releasing the tension you've pulled, arc back toward the frame pulling the first half of your knot back against the frame. You can repeat this a couple or three times to get any more slack out.

Then, you can finish whatever knot you're using.

Also ensure that you keep tension on the remaining string until you release the clamp. Do not release the clamp with no tension on the tail coming out of the knot.

Hope this helps.
 

alexmcnab

Rookie
For the first half hitch or piece of any knot, you actually want to pull tension away from the frame toward the center of the racquet. This will pull some of the slack from outside the frame out.

Then, without releasing the tension you've pulled, arc back toward the frame pulling the first half of your knot back against the frame. You can repeat this a couple or three times to get any more slack out.
Yes I know how to do this, it's just with this racket, tying off at the recommended hole, with this poly, I'm unable to stop it slipping back through the grommet. Tying at 8B solved this.
 

Chotobaka

Hall of Fame
Another option is to use cam action clamp/pliers: (1) hand pull to take slack off the string; (2) hold string in place with a carefully inserted lubed awl; and (3) tie the knot. You will have little to no slack. Unless you are completely ham-fisted, it is difficult the cause damage with the awl -- which is going to be the common objection to this method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDwAnjSYcxQ
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think I've explained it very well...the knot is not slipping through the grommet.

I make my first half hitch and pull horizontally towards the middle of the racket. Then, then as I arc back towards the frame the string slides back through the grommet to the outside of the frame - it doesn't grip onto it like it does with synthetic.
You explained it well enough. You were using synthrtic gut and now you using a poly string. The SG would bend and stretch eaiser that a poly will. When you pull the last string you are going to have some drawback and the higher the tension the more drawback you will have. When you tension a string the tensioner stretches the string and the string resists that change (stretching) but it does it slowly. When you clamp the string the drawback occurs because there is no tensioner on the string any more and the stretched string wants to pull the clamp backwards. Maybe a better way of saying that would be the string is trying to return back to its original length. Now there is nothing holding that section of string from the clamp to the end of the string so that string also just continuously relaxes trying to return back to it original state.

Now you tie your knot and start pulling and rocking and pulling and rocking the string back and forth. NOT A GOOD IDEA!!! Unless of course unless you want to break something. And why are you doing this? You want to get the slack out of the string from the anchor string back to the clamp. How hard do you think you will have to pull to get the string to go around the knot on the anchor string, overcome the friction in the grommet, make two 90 degrees turns, overcome the friction in another grommet, and then stretch the string from the grommet to the clamp. Let me tell you a secret, if you pull hard enough to do that something will break.

So let's try to eliminate what ever we can. When you ready to tie off pull tension on the tag end of your string while it is in the tie off grommet from the opposite side of the frame. This should restore the clamp back to it clamped position which also means that you have stretched the string around the two 90 degree corners and through the grommets. Just let it sit there for at least 10 seconds. If you have a constant pull now you continue to stretch the string. But in addition to that you have set the memory in the string around the two turns. Hold the string while you release the tensioner and tie your first half hitch as fast as possible. Any tension held on that string will be better that just letting it go limp.

EDIT: Not sure if you watched the video that Richard Parnell made but he was also using a Poly string, and he did not use any special tools only finger tight. If it draws back don't worry about it just do the best you can.
 
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alexmcnab

Rookie
Hi Irvin, I've watched a lot of yulitle's videos on youtube over the years including his double half hitch - I've been doing it how he does - I take it you disagree with him?
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Hi Irvin, I've watched a lot of yulitle's videos on youtube over the years including his double half hitch - I've been doing it how he does - I take it you disagree with him?
I would not say I disagree with him. He normally used a Parnell knot. I believe his video was more to show how a double half hitch was tied. I used to rock the knot back and forth but don't any more, especially with a fragile string.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Getting back to your original question, I believe first you have to understand why the string is becoming loose on the outside of the frame before you can get rid of it. One way is to just pull harder and if the string breaks start all over. On the other hand do the best you can and live with it. Nothing is perfect.

Which knot you use really doesn't matter as long as it's a sound knot. I don't prefer the DHH but that's a different story. If you like it and it works for you use it. If there was a proven correct / incorrect way to do it every would try to do it the correct way.
 

Micalzon

Rookie
I don't think there's a way to eliminate a little slippage in the tie off. What has worked for me fairly well is to pull the last string, clamp as close as you can, put the string through the grommet and pull as tight as you can. While pulling on the string, shove (softly) a smooth awl into the grommet on the outside of the frame. This helps to hold the string tight while in the grommet as you tie it off.

I'm not able to get the final clamp super close to the frame so there will always be a little drawback, but this method has helped me to have a nice, firm knot that is already well "set in place" before I remove all the clamps.

Just to add to the conversation, I too use the Parnell knot. Seems to work the best to reduce slippage.
 
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