Strategies to hold serve in mixed doubles

[Moveforwardalways]

This question is for those of you who play mixed doubles competitively (the rest of you are laughing at the very idea and calling competitive mixed doubles an oxymoron right now I'm sure). With that said, many times the male player has the stronger serve. Thus, it seems like the key to winning at mixed doubles is holding serve when the female is serving. This is often a tall order when the "waiters-tray/tap it in" serve is being used by the female (which is almost always).

So, for this mock scenario, a 3.0 or 3.5 female is serving and a 3.5 or 4.0 male is at net. The net guy is a sitting duck when serve goes to the opponent male, tough to poach when a serve is a "tap in". So what is the best strategy? If the net guy plays back, the male returner is going to crush the return back to the female server and probably win the point. If the net guy stays up, he is going to have a tough play at the net. What is the right way to play this?

Alternatively, when the female server is serving to the female returner, the net male has a slightly easier play at net, but savvy female returners take the weak tap-in serve and lob over your head to nullify the male's influence at net. What is the right way to play this?

I suppose this can also apply to any situation where there is a skill gap in partners, like in combo as well.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

 

[NTRPolice]

Women should generally always be hugging the net, especially the worse they are. Playing the net is the easiest part of the entire game of tennis. If she cant put away balls when she is right on the net, she is not going to be able to do anything else.

The stronger the woman, the more she can play off the net. She can cover her own lobs, she can take an approach to come to the net and make plays. She can play balls below her waist without completely whiffing them or popping them up during a normal rally.

The stronger the woman, the more the man can play closer to the net. As I said, the easiest spot to play is close to the net. If the woman can cover lobs, take OH's, volley and half volley, then you can take the liberty to camp the net.

The weaker the woman, the more the man has to play off the net. He has to be able to take short balls, lobs, put-away's, and play balls below the waist. He has to avoid creating an lob exchange with his woman, he has to punish the bad lobs and run down all of the short balls.

The stronger both players, the more they can play off the net and cover their own balls. They can then take turns attacking at net, whether it's on the serve, or during the course of a normal point. This means weaknesses are only created when you're transitioning to offense, that is to say that one person is closing in on the middle.


Mixed is not tennis most people can play. You have to put your ego aside and play the game how it should be played. This means women will not be able to play like it's womens doubles, and men will have to play against a women as if it's mens doubles. The womans HAS to have good hands, no matter what the level. The man can get away with avg. volleys at least some of the time, because their ability to create winners against the weaker player is a lot higher. Of course, at the higher levels of mixed, the man will have to be a great net player. During regular season play, you can get away with a man never coming to net if your woman can make all her volleys.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

This means women will not be able to play like it's womens doubles, and men will have to play against a women as if it's mens doubles.

Can you expound on this? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[NTRPolice]

Can you expound on this? I'm not sure what you mean.

You will have to serve and challenge the woman as if she is a weak man in a mens doubles match. Most people cant do this. If you want to win, you have to play the weaker player, and in mixed, that's almost always the women. If you played a mens match, and one man did not have strings on his racket, who would you hit to? The man with no strings. If it's a mixed match and the woman cant make any plays, why wouldnt you hit to her?

Going back to my strategy, because the woman is almost always the weaker player in mixed, it's why they should almost always be on the net in rec tennis, where it's easiest for her to be effective. In the pros, women are still weaker than men, but their games are still very solid, so they arnt reduced to playing only net at the pro level. At the pro level, a man and a woman can get into a rally and it's not that bad. It's not the same thing as a 4.0 man rallying with a 3.0 woman. haha

 

[MathGeek]

My experience has been much different, as the man is not always stronger than the woman. There are odd mixes of strengths and weaknesses and each opposing team is different.

My wife is my most common partner. Her serve is strong and more consistent than mine, especially in the colder months. She's better at the net, and I'm strong at the baseline, but that is due more to my mobility. Her ground strokes are better.

But we've seen the whole spectrum of possibilities. There are many cases where the woman is the tennis enthusiast and she has cajoled some fellow to being her partner for the tourney or event. These guys often have a few decent strokes and tricks, but few have a complete, fine tuned game. Then there are other cases where, whoa nelly, these two have done this before. But there are not many serves my wife can't return, and there are not many men who can beat my wife consistently at the baseline with me limiting the field from the net.

When we lose, it's most often to crazy volley skills with enough saavy in other parts of the game to keep the point alive until the volley stage - or one or both of us is just having the occasional bad day at the baseline with lots of UEs.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

You will have to serve and challenge the woman as if she is a weak man in a mens doubles match. Most people cant do this. If you want to win, you have to play the weaker player, and in mixed, that's almost always the women. If you played a mens match, and one man did not have strings on his racket, who would you hit to? The man with no strings. If it's a mixed match and the woman cant make any plays, why wouldnt you hit to her?

Going back to my strategy, because the woman is almost always the weaker player in mixed, it's why they should almost always be on the net in rec tennis, where it's easiest for her to be effective. In the pros, women are still weaker than men, but their games are still very solid, so they arnt reduced to playing only net at the pro level. At the pro level, a man and a woman can get into a rally and it's not that bad. It's not the same thing as a 4.0 man rallying with a 3.0 woman. haha

I see.

But what do you by women cannot play like its women's doubles?

 

[Moveforwardalways]

My experience has been much different, as the man is not always stronger than the woman. There are odd mixes of strengths and weaknesses and each opposing team is different.

My wife is my most common partner. Her serve is strong and more consistent than mine, especially in the colder months. She's better at the net, and I'm strong at the baseline, but that is due more to my mobility. Her ground strokes are better.

But we've seen the whole spectrum of possibilities. There are many cases where the woman is the tennis enthusiast and she has cajoled some fellow to being her partner for the tourney or event. These guys often have a few decent strokes and tricks, but few have a complete, fine tuned game. Then there are other cases where, whoa nelly, these two have done this before. But there are not many serves my wife can't return, and there are not many men who can beat my wife consistently at the baseline with me limiting the field from the net.

When we lose, it's most often to crazy volley skills with enough saavy in other parts of the game to keep the point alive until the volley stage - or one or both of us is just having the occasional bad day at the baseline with lots of UEs.

I agree. I have seen these scenarios too. But I feel like, based on my experience, that teams with stronger male players can dominate the match. But when you have two teams with equally stronger male players, what is the winning strategy?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Women should generally always be hugging the net, especially the worse they are. Playing the net is the easiest part of the entire game of tennis.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. If what you say were true, there would be a lot more people coming to the net and a lot less people apprehensive about it. But I see the opposite [I'm not talking specifically about MXDs].

If she cant put away balls when she is right on the net, she is not going to be able to do anything else.

The stronger the woman, the more she can play off the net. She can cover her own lobs, she can take an approach to come to the net and make plays. She can play balls below her waist without completely whiffing them or popping them up during a normal rally.

The stronger the woman, the more the man can play closer to the net. As I said, the easiest spot to play is close to the net. If the woman can cover lobs, take OH's, volley and half volley, then you can take the liberty to camp the net.

The weaker the woman, the more the man has to play off the net. He has to be able to take short balls, lobs, put-away's, and play balls below the waist. He has to avoid creating an lob exchange with his woman, he has to punish the bad lobs and run down all of the short balls.

The stronger both players, the more they can play off the net and cover their own balls. They can then take turns attacking at net, whether it's on the serve, or during the course of a normal point. This means weaknesses are only created when you're transitioning to offense, that is to say that one person is closing in on the middle.


Mixed is not tennis most people can play. You have to put your ego aside and play the game how it should be played. This means women will not be able to play like it's womens doubles, and men will have to play against a women as if it's mens doubles. The womans HAS to have good hands, no matter what the level. The man can get away with avg. volleys at least some of the time, because their ability to create winners against the weaker player is a lot higher. Of course, at the higher levels of mixed, the man will have to be a great net player. During regular season play, you can get away with a man never coming to net if your woman can make all her volleys.

But wasn't the OP's question about how to better hold serve when the woman is serving? If so, the woman's net skills don't come into play unless she's playing S&V and how often does that happen?

Note that I play very little MXD so I'm just generalizing based on Men's, which may completely invalidate my opinions.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

But wasn't the OP's question about how to better hold serve when the woman is serving?

Exactly. I'm looking for strategies to hold serve when the woman is serving. To draw a men's analogy, how do you hold serve when a lower rated partner is serving in combo?

 

[MathGeek]

I agree. I have seen these scenarios too. But I feel like, based on my experience, that teams with stronger male players can dominate the match. But when you have two teams with equally stronger male players, what is the winning strategy?

Pick on their weaker player and minimize their ability to pick on your weaker player.

For holding serve, a strategy to consider would be starting with both players back and with the plan for the weaker player to attack the net as soon as possible, leaving the stronger player back. If a strong return is anticipated to the weaker player serving, one can even plan a switch of sides on some serves to mitigate the weakness.

But there are still so many variations in individual strengths and weaknesses, that I am reluctant to offer generic recipes for success or strategies than ensure the stronger player takes most of the shots.

There is a psychological issue here that cannot be ignored: the best strategy for winning may not be appreciated by the weaker player, and upsetting the weaker player may interfere more with the outcome of the match than a suboptimal tactics that provide better motivation and support on the psychological side.

The stronger player simply cannot "muscle" his way into dominating the game and expect a good outcome. Any strategy needs to be arrived at by consensus between the two players. This requires diplomacy and a certain delicate approach.

 

[NTRPolice]

I see.

But what do you by women cannot play like its women's doubles?

Because in womens doubles you can have one woman camp the baseline and still be successful. In a mixed match, you will not win if your woman doesnt want to come to net because she is not going to be able to rally with the men. Remember, we're talking about 3.5 women, not 7.0 women who have at least some chance of rallying with a 7.0 man.

Exactly. I'm looking for strategies to hold serve when the woman is serving. To draw a men's analogy, how do you hold serve when a lower rated partner is serving in combo?

Play off the net and encourage them to come in after their serve. When I say "off the net" I mean no closer than 10 ft. from the net unless you're closing into attack. You will still have to attack in the middle, be able to get at least some of the lobs, and play balls hit at your feet. You cant play aggressive net or else you will be excluded from too many points. If your partner is a weak server, then hitting a return that you cant get to should be pretty easy, even if it's a slice lob.

On the flip side, when you are serving, your partner hugs the net. This removes them from a lot of points, and only involves them in the points they can win, which are easy put-aways at net.

The worse your partner the less you can play close to the net.

 

[NTRPolice]

There is a psychological issue here that cannot be ignored: the best strategy for winning may not be appreciated by the weaker player, and upsetting the weaker player may interfere more with the outcome of the match than a suboptimal tactics that provide better motivation and support on the psychological side.

The stronger player simply cannot "muscle" his way into dominating the game and expect a good outcome. Any strategy needs to be arrived at by consensus between the two players. This requires diplomacy and a certain delicate approach.

This is why mixed (or playing with a weaker player of the same gender) is hard. The weaker player needs to know their role, which usually means only playing net. Singles players have hard time with this. I've played mixed with a 4.5 female who plays only singles and will try to hit a winner after she's been lobbed twice. This is not a winning strategy because she never wants to come to the net. Some other 4.5 females i've played with love to come to the net and it's with these players that i've have the most success with. The 4.5 (probably a 5.0 female YER) would easily destroy those other ladies in singles. However, she is a weak doubles partner.

 

[MathGeek]

This is why mixed (or playing with a weaker player of the same gender) is hard.

The same is true in lots of sports. I have the most experience with Ultimate and BB. Weaker players are often upset of they do not get enough "touches." I gently encourage weaker players to earn their touches by playing great defense, positioning themselves well (which IS ESSENTIAL to good defense in every sport), not making mistakes with the touches they get, and focusing on TEAM outcomes rather than touches or personal goals. Recognizing and playing within one's limitations in a way that optimizes team strengths is the right approach.

But the human psyche is fragile, especially when it comes to recognizing and playing within one's limitations in sports. I have no perfect answers, but I have learned that care and gentleness are likely to provide more positive outcomes than a bull in a china shop.

And in many ways, most men are bulls in china shops when dealing with the psyche of partners in MxD.

 

[NTRPolice]

But the human psyche is fragile, especially when it comes to recognizing and playing within one's limitations in sports. I have no perfect answers, but I have learned that care and gentleness are likely to provide more positive outcomes than a bull in a china shop.

And in many ways, most men are bulls in china shops when dealing with the psyche of partners in MxD.

The most successful mixed teams here actually brutalize their women so they know what to expect. Ever seen libero training in volleyball? Basically like that, but for tennis. They will have 3 women line up at net and the guys just blast feeds at them and the women have to get the ball back. They all have spin serves that stay low, and not even their 3.0 women "tap" their serves. They just do these super slow 40 mph side spin serves so the ball isnt easily punished by a 4.0 guys. Pretty cheesy, but very effective.

This 3.0 woman that has a serve that isnt easily punished at level and solid volleys at net is way stronger than a 3.5 lady who doesnt want to play net at all, or wants to try to serve aces, but taps over her second serve. Although she may be a 3.0, her "effective mixed rating" may as well be a 4.0, because that's what she contributes to the combo. I have seen successful combos going the other way of ratings (3.0 guy and 4.0 girl) but they are usually not as effective at the higher levels when compared to a higher level guy and lower level girl.

 

[eelhc]

Put it slightly differently... In ANY doubles.

1. which partner has the stronger serve?
2. which partner has the best chance of holding serve?

1 and 2 are NOT same questions ad definitely do not have the same answer all the time.

Conventional wisdom says that the stronger server has to hold serve. But what if their partner can't volley therefore giving the returner practically the entire court to hit at?

 

[dsp9753]

When you partner serves, poach or be aggressive at the net. Everyone "knows" to hit the ball at the weaker player which most often will be your partner. If you poach on the first point, it can create an easy volley for yourself. Also it will make the opponents start thinking about their returns and where to hit it which can lead to errors. Also, almost always poach when the opposing women is returning the serve. (Your mileage may vary but if you are struggling to hold when your partner is serving, this cant make things any worse. I have found that once I get one or two good poaches in, people start to hit really bad returns.)

Since in mixed, everyone will try to avoid the guy at the net and instead almost always choose to hit to the women. This often makes people become really really predictable.

 

[kylebarendrick]

I'll dispute the "woman at the net" theory as well. There are lots of different types of partnerships and I have seen some very strong MX7.0 teams (which is what the OP seems to be referring to) where the woman never comes to the net. On these teams the 3.0 woman stays back and pushes. She can return most balls that come to her, pushing them deep with little pace. Her 4.0 partner tends to be fast with great hands, covering the bulk of the court and putting away weak shots from their opponents.

The woman on this type of team holds serve by (a) watching her partner put away any return he can reach; and (b) blocking balls that make it to her back deep until her partner has a chance to end the point.

 

[NTRPolice]

I'll dispute the "woman at the net" theory as well. There are lots of different types of partnerships and I have seen some very strong MX7.0 teams (which is what the OP seems to be referring to) where the woman never comes to the net. On these teams the 3.0 woman stays back and pushes. She can return most balls that come to her, pushing them deep with little pace. Her 4.0 partner tends to be fast with great hands, covering the bulk of the court and putting away weak shots from their opponents.

The woman on this type of team holds serve by (a) watching her partner put away any return he can reach; and (b) blocking balls that make it to her back deep until her partner has a chance to end the point.

If a 3.0 woman is going to be able to moonball rally against a 4.0 man, she would have to be a nationals level player. In 3.0 womens nationals, they moonball for extended periods until someone makes a UE, not a winner. This means they are trying to get the ball back anywhere in the court, not worrying about their opponent hitting a winner, or where their opponent is standing in general.

A 3.0 that isnt going to be moonballing is going to be a liability, because those balls can easily be intercepted by either player. That ball goes to the wrong 2/3's of the court and it's going to get put away.

It's possible to run a 3.0 woman at the baseline, but if she's not already doing it on her own, you're going to basically have to teach her the entire game of tennis. Or, you can just teach her how to volley from up close to the net. 90% of the reason why people cant volley at the net is because they are afraid of the ball. The other 10% is the learned skill.

 

[TangentZ]

I don't know the answer to holding serves in mixed doubles, but here is a video on how NOT to treat your mixed doubles partner...

 

[esgee48]

IMO, MxD or Combo MxD 7.0-7.5 is not trying to win points, but to minimize UE. I would opine that staying back for the weaker serve is better. Let them try and hit winners, which are harder to do when the serve is weak (slow and low.) The 2nd shot should be a lob over the (weaker) person at the net and let them try to hit it. If they're as weak as they are, they won't have OH that will be putaways. Now you're in the point. If you have the accuracy, hit drives close to the weaker net person, but 2 steps away. This causes all sorts of confusion as to who takes the ball. Have you partner moonball close to the weaker net person. That will also be a potential mess up shot for them! 2 cents.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ever seen libero training in volleyball? Basically like that, but for tennis. They will have 3 women line up at net and the guys just blast feeds at them and the women have to get the ball back.

That ought to be great reflex training for anyone, male or female.

I watched a practice court at a tournament and the coach was just blasting balls at the woman from maybe 1/2 way between the BL and SL. Brutal. But I bet she's a better volleyer for it.

 

[MathGeek]

The ladies I've played with and against in mixed doubles are fabulous - growing in their skills, very friendly, work hard on the court, etc.

But they want practices to be kinda fun, and would likely chafe at practices that pull them well out of their comfort zone, especially if it seemed to be a man's idea. Part of keeping the peace in MxD is making very gentle suggestions and letting the women call the shots.

I'm not sure many men have built up the kind of social or tennis capital in MxD that it would take to get the women to line up at the net and tolerate having feeds blasted at them, at least not the women I know. I've had the best results in helping women carry their weight by:

1. working very hard to carry my own weight
2. giving five compliments for every gentle suggestion
3. accepting much more advice than I try to give
4. recognizing the weaknesses in my own game
5. framing suggestions in terms of how a partner can help balance my limitations
6. leaving directing of practice and skill building to others most of the time
7. picking one thing and only one thing to make a gentle suggestion about

 

[Dakota C]

The weaker my partners serve, the further back from the net I stay. This goes for mixed and mens doubles.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The weaker my partners serve, the further back from the net I stay. This goes for mixed and mens doubles.

At a certain point, you're better off on the BL. Standing at the SL or in NML is asking for trouble because it's so easy to target your feet.

I might make the opposite argument: the weaker the partner's serve, the closer I need to get to the net to avoid having everything at my feet. Again, up to a point; then I'd just play 2-back to avoid the fuzz sandwich.

 

[SGM1980]

I'll dispute the "woman at the net" theory as well. There are lots of different types of partnerships and I have seen some very strong MX7.0 teams (which is what the OP seems to be referring to) where the woman never comes to the net. On these teams the 3.0 woman stays back and pushes. She can return most balls that come to her, pushing them deep with little pace. Her 4.0 partner tends to be fast with great hands, covering the bulk of the court and putting away weak shots from their opponents.

The woman on this type of team holds serve by (a) watching her partner put away any return he can reach; and (b) blocking balls that make it to her back deep until her partner has a chance to end the point.

Lots of ways to skin a cat. This is how my husband and I play 8.0 mixed (I'm a 3.5 and he's a 4.5). I can rally with most of 4.5 men and I hit a quality enough ball that he can't take too terribly much advantage of it usually. In general this gives my husband enough time to stalk the net until he sees something he can do something with. I serve well enough that he can usually stay at the net, although (like many 3.5 women) I lack much of anything interesting in my second serve so he sometimes steps back for that. But in general we are most successful when he's up and I'm back covering.

I feel like knowing your partner is more important for mixed than it is for regular doubles, just because of all the things discussed in this thread. There's so much more disparity in skill and attitude in mixed - and there's more emotion. Having some sort of knowledge and familiarity with your partner is very important.

Using myself as an example: I play 8.o with my 4.5 husband and I play 7.0 with a 3.5 friend. I play VERY different games with these two guys, and when I sub them out for someone else the results are less predictable. I played with another 4.5 guy who had a different game than my husband. Still a good 4.5 player, but a very different game. And was about 8 inches shorter. The technique that worked so well for me and my husband didn't work as well just because our strengths and weaknesses didn't line up as well.

So I guess I have two points:

1) There isn't just one answer to this question. You need to play to the strengths and weaknesses of the two players who are on the court on that day.

2) Familiarity with your partner is more important in mixed doubles than in same-gender doubles due to the potential differences between players. (Similar to combo, actually. I find playing combo with a lower rated player more difficult to figure out than it is to play with someone of my same rating.)

 

[Doc Hollidae]

This question is for those of you who play mixed doubles competitively (the rest of you are laughing at the very idea and calling competitive mixed doubles an oxymoron right now I'm sure). With that said, many times the male player has the stronger serve. Thus, it seems like the key to winning at mixed doubles is holding serve when the female is serving. This is often a tall order when the "waiters-tray/tap it in" serve is being used by the female (which is almost always).

So, for this mock scenario, a 3.0 or 3.5 female is serving and a 3.5 or 4.0 male is at net. The net guy is a sitting duck when serve goes to the opponent male, tough to poach when a serve is a "tap in". So what is the best strategy? If the net guy plays back, the male returner is going to crush the return back to the female server and probably win the point. If the net guy stays up, he is going to have a tough play at the net. What is the right way to play this?

Alternatively, when the female server is serving to the female returner, the net male has a slightly easier play at net, but savvy female returners take the weak tap-in serve and lob over your head to nullify the male's influence at net. What is the right way to play this?

I suppose this can also apply to any situation where there is a skill gap in partners, like in combo as well.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

The best thing you can do as the net person, is to try and take the pressure off your partner's serve and try and get the returners to concentrate on you at the net. How does one accomplish that?

Give the returners different looks. Play two back at times, play I formation and Aussie, throw in shoulder fakes to feign poaching, or poach from time to time.

Try and make the court seem as small as possible for the returner, so they can't just hit a routine cross court return without having to think what the net man is doing first.

 

[RetroSpin]

As to the OP, the best way to hold serve when the 3.0/3.5 woman is serving depends a lot on her serve. If it is good enough that the man has to take it around the baseline or deeper, then your best play is to try to dominate the net. You should have a decent shot at his returns and you should be able to get to a lot of her returns, unless she lobs. He really won't like it if you cut off a couple of returns and hit them between her legs. The key here is you and your partner have to able to handle her lobs.

If your partner's serve is so weak they are taking it half way up to the service line, then you really probably are better off staying back. If their returns are weak too, you can play net but a bit deeper to give you a chance to cut off floaters.

 

[zaskar1]

This question is for those of you who play mixed doubles competitively (the rest of you are laughing at the very idea and calling competitive mixed doubles an oxymoron right now I'm sure). With that said, many times the male player has the stronger serve. Thus, it seems like the key to winning at mixed doubles is holding serve when the female is serving. This is often a tall order when the "waiters-tray/tap it in" serve is being used by the female (which is almost always).

So, for this mock scenario, a 3.0 or 3.5 female is serving and a 3.5 or 4.0 male is at net. The net guy is a sitting duck when serve goes to the opponent male, tough to poach when a serve is a "tap in". So what is the best strategy? If the net guy plays back, the male returner is going to crush the return back to the female server and probably win the point. If the net guy stays up, he is going to have a tough play at the net. What is the right way to play this?

>if your partner taps in the serve, the male partner has to poach the return, assume its going to the server, otherwise play two back, always hitting down the middle or to the weaker player, never to the stronger player, coming in on weak shots

Alternatively, when the female server is serving to the female returner, the net male has a slightly easier play at net, but savvy female returners take the weak tap-in serve and lob over your head to nullify the male's influence at net. What is the right way to play this?

> try to poach, if the returner has a good lob, lob it back, kind of boring, but eventually someone will hit a shot you can put away
i played a match like that, and afterwards the opponents lady said of my partner, all you do is lob, we just laughed and laughed!!
my partner was just better at lobbing the the opponent

z

I suppose this can also apply to any situation where there is a skill gap in partners, like in combo as well.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Similar to combo, actually. I find playing combo with a lower rated player more difficult to figure out than it is to play with someone of my same rating.

Agree, and that is really the nature of my question in this thread. Serving is so key in doubles, and when your partner can't serve well, the game becomes complicated.

 

[onehandbh]

When I played mixed with a partner that had a weaker serve, usually the guys held serve fairly easily and the women got broken more often.

Our strategy was when my partner was serving was for me to play further back around the middle of the service box or closer to the service line and the use signals to let her know when I was poaching. I was super aggressive and closed in but it also made me more vulnerable to crosscourt lobs.

If the opponent hit it down the line when I was poaching the I'd immediately retreat back to the baseline so that my partner and I would both be at the baseline in a defensive position.

I took almost all the overheads and chased down most of the lobs.

When both of us were back and the other team was at the net, the best play was usually a groundstroke down the middle. Normal doubles Strategy. If we were forced to hit a lob. Usually lobbed the woman.

The guys in mixed doubles usually have to run down and cover a lot of ground. Same as in beach volleyball.

 

[onehandbh]

When I play doubles with my mom and dad, same thing. I have to cover a lot of ground.

 

[kingcheetah]

I think the key is breaking the stronger server. If the players are all equal in ability, it's a non issue, but in situations with a weaker player on each team, they should usually cancel out. I'd focus on having the stronger player of the team be really efficient with their returns, and see if the weaker player can be solid enough to steal a break or two of the better opponent.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Exactly. I'm looking for strategies to hold serve when the woman is serving. To draw a men's analogy, how do you hold serve when a lower rated partner is serving in combo?

First, a quick detour. Someone asked what it means when NTRP says the woman shouldn't play like it is women's doubles. I think he means that in women's doubles, the players often position farther off the net. The lob is a very common shot, and the overheads are not great, so it makes sense not to hug the net. In mixed, the woman is vulnerable to difficult balls hit at her feet if she positions as far back as she usually does, so she has to play the net tighter. I think that's the idea.

Anyway, to your question.

I play ladies mixed combo and also mixed, so I have some thoughts. To me, the key to holding when your weaker partner is serving is 1. be unpredictable, and 2. bait the opponents into hitting to you by being an irresistible target.

Assuming you have already failed with the obvious things (e.g. poaching aggressively), then you can try unusual positioning. Sometimes, I will ask my partner to serve from a wider position and then stay there. This will bait the opponent to go for the open court in my alley or up the middle, or they will miss the smaller piece of court they need to hit to get it to my partner. Either way, that is better than having them blast my partner off the court.

Sometimes I will position like a lunatic in no-man's land, daring the opponent to hit it at my feet rather than blast it to my partner. Again, at least we have made them change their tactics, and I ought to be able to scoop up a half volley and get us in the point.

Sometimes I will position two back. For some reason, some opponents cannot resist the temptation to hit a drop shot that they don't have. All drop shots are mine to play.

Sometimes I will launch sneak attacks. I will position two back and tell my partner to lob whatever ball comes to her, and then I will hesitate a bit before moving in. The forward movement can cause indecision in the returner, or he might hit something reachable because he wasn't expecting me to come in.

Finally, you should avoid taking the court with any weaker partner in mixed who does not know how to line up Australian. This can allow you to make sure your partner only hits a FH after her serve (if that is her stronger shot), and it can force returners to hit DTL shots they are not used to hitting.

You may not win the match, but you will certainly make your opponents work for it.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

First, a quick detour. Someone asked what it means when NTRP says the woman shouldn't play like it is women's doubles. I think he means that in women's doubles, the players often position farther off the net. The lob is a very common shot, and the overheads are not great, so it makes sense not to hug the net. In mixed, the woman is vulnerable to difficult balls hit at her feet if she positions as far back as she usually does, so she has to play the net tighter. I think that's the idea.

Anyway, to your question.

I play ladies mixed combo and also mixed, so I have some thoughts. To me, the key to holding when your weaker partner is serving is 1. be unpredictable, and 2. bait the opponents into hitting to you by being an irresistible target.

Assuming you have already failed with the obvious things (e.g. poaching aggressively), then you can try unusual positioning. Sometimes, I will ask my partner to serve from a wider position and then stay there. This will bait the opponent to go for the open court in my alley or up the middle, or they will miss the smaller piece of court they need to hit to get it to my partner. Either way, that is better than having them blast my partner off the court.

Sometimes I will position like a lunatic in no-man's land, daring the opponent to hit it at my feet rather than blast it to my partner. Again, at least we have made them change their tactics, and I ought to be able to scoop up a half volley and get us in the point.

Sometimes I will position two back. For some reason, some opponents cannot resist the temptation to hit a drop shot that they don't have. All drop shots are mine to play.

Sometimes I will launch sneak attacks. I will position two back and tell my partner to lob whatever ball comes to her, and then I will hesitate a bit before moving in. The forward movement can cause indecision in the returner, or he might hit something reachable because he wasn't expecting me to come in.

Finally, you should avoid taking the court with any weaker partner in mixed who does not know how to line up Australian. This can allow you to make sure your partner only hits a FH after her serve (if that is her stronger shot), and it can force returners to hit DTL shots they are not used to hitting.

You may not win the match, but you will certainly make your opponents work for it.

I like how you're flexible in your approach and willing to try different tactics. Some partners, MXD or otherwise, just don't want to change.

 

[808Tiger]

This question is for those of you who play mixed doubles competitively (the rest of you are laughing at the very idea and calling competitive mixed doubles an oxymoron right now I'm sure). With that said, many times the male player has the stronger serve. Thus, it seems like the key to winning at mixed doubles is holding serve when the female is serving. This is often a tall order when the "waiters-tray/tap it in" serve is being used by the female (which is almost always).

So, for this mock scenario, a 3.0 or 3.5 female is serving and a 3.5 or 4.0 male is at net. The net guy is a sitting duck when serve goes to the opponent male, tough to poach when a serve is a "tap in". So what is the best strategy? If the net guy plays back, the male returner is going to crush the return back to the female server and probably win the point. If the net guy stays up, he is going to have a tough play at the net. What is the right way to play this?

Alternatively, when the female server is serving to the female returner, the net male has a slightly easier play at net, but savvy female returners take the weak tap-in serve and lob over your head to nullify the male's influence at net. What is the right way to play this?

I suppose this can also apply to any situation where there is a skill gap in partners, like in combo as well.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

For the most part all you can do be patient and wait for opportunities to poach. Strategy wise, if they are lobbing often, play off the net enough to cover the average lob (middle of the court). If they are consistently hitting the deep corner, then stand closer to the baseline. I understand feeling like a siting duck, but consider this. If they hit it at or near you, you don't have to poach. Block the ball back (remember the backhand is your friend with balls hit at you).
Another strategy you can use, especially if they are not returning very hard is aggressively poaching at the moment they begin to hit the ball. I recommend notifying your women partner so she can cover your backside. If it works, it will help her serve greatly by giving the returner something to think about and make them uncomfortable. At the very least, it will force them to hit a better return which in most cases more return errors, or in most cases they will probably lob.
Bottom line, just be patient. I've learned from experience that if you try to be aggressive (unless planned), it will cause more mistakes and errors.

Hope this helps.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

Stay back as the net guy when your female partner is serving. As soon as the male returner is rallying cross-court, go ahead and surprise him at the net. Predictable cross-court patterns should be easy to attack at the net.

 

[travlerajm]

Women should generally always be hugging the net, especially the worse they are. Playing the net is the easiest part of the entire game of tennis. If she cant put away balls when she is right on the net, she is not going to be able to do anything else.

The stronger the woman, the more she can play off the net. She can cover her own lobs, she can take an approach to come to the net and make plays. She can play balls below her waist without completely whiffing them or popping them up during a normal rally.

The stronger the woman, the more the man can play closer to the net. As I said, the easiest spot to play is close to the net. If the woman can cover lobs, take OH's, volley and half volley, then you can take the liberty to camp the net.

The weaker the woman, the more the man has to play off the net. He has to be able to take short balls, lobs, put-away's, and play balls below the waist. He has to avoid creating an lob exchange with his woman, he has to punish the bad lobs and run down all of the short balls.

The stronger both players, the more they can play off the net and cover their own balls. They can then take turns attacking at net, whether it's on the serve, or during the course of a normal point. This means weaknesses are only created when you're transitioning to offense, that is to say that one person is closing in on the middle.


Mixed is not tennis most people can play. You have to put your ego aside and play the game how it should be played. This means women will not be able to play like it's womens doubles, and men will have to play against a women as if it's mens doubles. The womans HAS to have good hands, no matter what the level. The man can get away with avg. volleys at least some of the time, because their ability to create winners against the weaker player is a lot higher. Of course, at the higher levels of mixed, the man will have to be a great net player. During regular season play, you can get away with a man never coming to net if your woman can make all her volleys.

Good summary!

 

[ttbrowne]

I always tried to power the female. This didn't work. I was always overcooking the ball and some women like to just stick a racquet up for a lucky volley.
Now...I'm more into a placement game. With most 3.5 women I only need to hit behind them, hit at feet or make them go or a return off balance. Most do not have the ability to muscle a ball back.
I went 6 for 7 this year. I wish I'd gotten smarter a long time ago.

 

[zaskar1]

in 7.0 mixed, usually you try to get more balls to the female, move her up and back. poach on her serve.
the guy opponent will get his points, but usually try to make the girl beat you.
if she can do it, then you played the correct strategy, and hats off to your opponents
z

 

[Cashman]

The biggest problem I tend to have in Mixed Doubles is getting my partner to attack the net. A lot of people are programmed to play doubles as one-up-one-back, but this seems a much bigger problem with women than men.

If you can consistently put a serve in play that draws a neutral return, then take the net, you should generally hold serve.

 

[J B]

Try having her serve and volley and you stay at the baseline. That worked well for me.

 

[blablavla]

IMO, MxD or Combo MxD 7.0-7.5 is not trying to win points, but to minimize UE. I would opine that staying back for the weaker serve is better. Let them try and hit winners, which are harder to do when the serve is weak (slow and low.) The 2nd shot should be a lob over the (weaker) person at the net and let them try to hit it. If they're as weak as they are, they won't have OH that will be putaways. Now you're in the point. If you have the accuracy, hit drives close to the weaker net person, but 2 steps away. This causes all sorts of confusion as to who takes the ball. Have you partner moonball close to the weaker net person. That will also be a potential mess up shot for them! 2 cents.

exactly, the weaker partner can send lobs over the weaker opponent, so you can have one of the following scenario:
- the weak opponent remains at the net, and the stronger one plays the lob from baseline, which essentially means a lot of comfort zone for the other stronger player at the net
- the weak opponent decided to run back and play the lob from the baseline, which essentially means even more comfort zone for the other stronger player at the net

point won.

 

[Dartagnan64]

My go to strategy has evolved into this:
When serving against the male, take his return DTL dipper at the woman.
When serving to the woman, send the woman's return back at her then hit the next one behind the net guy who's usually trying to poach at that point and leaving a huge alley.

Between that formula and the occasional free point my partner earns from bad returns, I can usually hold easily. Only get caught out if my partner gets lobbed and then it changes the geometry and turns the point into a scramble drill.

 

[zaskar1]

This question is for those of you who play mixed doubles competitively (the rest of you are laughing at the very idea and calling competitive mixed doubles an oxymoron right now I'm sure). With that said, many times the male player has the stronger serve. Thus, it seems like the key to winning at mixed doubles is holding serve when the female is serving. This is often a tall order when the "waiters-tray/tap it in" serve is being used by the female (which is almost always).

So, for this mock scenario, a 3.0 or 3.5 female is serving and a 3.5 or 4.0 male is at net. The net guy is a sitting duck when serve goes to the opponent male, tough to poach when a serve is a "tap in". So what is the best strategy? If the net guy plays back, the male returner is going to crush the return back to the female server and probably win the point. If the net guy stays up, he is going to have a tough play at the net. What is the right way to play this?

Alternatively, when the female server is serving to the female returner, the net male has a slightly easier play at net, but savvy female returners take the weak tap-in serve and lob over your head to nullify the male's influence at net. What is the right way to play this?

I suppose this can also apply to any situation where there is a skill gap in partners, like in combo as well.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

MFA
if you have problems holding the weaker player's serve, you should try to poach a few times
if you are getting passed or lobbed, play two back and lob the returns over the netrushers, especially if the return and try to come in.
it definitely stops the net rushing.
but even though you are playing two back, be prepared to rush the net on a good approach shot, or smash an overhead on a short lob
z

 

[Cawlin]

I have played a bit of mixed, as a 3.5, with partners from 2.5 to 3.5 against everything from 4.0 to 2.5. The strategy for holding my own serve, which is pretty strong: 100+ mph flat, hard slice, and high bouncing kicker, is to hit first serves in. If I am not getting my biggest serves in reliably on a given day, and I am playing with a weaker partner 3.0 or below, then I just kick and kick and kick and kick and kick a little more... DFs won't matter because if they can handle my serve at all, it is going straight to my partner every time, and I will be lucky to hold 1 game in 5 anyway... the only hope if I am not having a good serve day is to feed the opponents the kicker, which I can almost always hit reasonably reliably and which is my normal go-to second serve.

To hold my weaker partner's serve, I ask them to try to place it at least up the middle towards the T and as deep as they can in the service box, so that I don't have to worry as much about the alley (since an alley ROS shot will have to cross my body) and I can then poach aggressively. Yes this forces the opponents to either hit a ball I can poach, or go very wide to my partner, but that's really the only hope I have to hold her serve. If my partner can't do those things with their powder puff serve, I am a soccer goalie on a penalty kick, and I just stand back at the baseline forcing the opponents to either a) hit a ball I can possibly cut off, or b) drop shot the return. If the opponents can drop shot my partner's return effectively, I just let her learn that she needs to work on her serve. Some serves are just not holdable.

(Brief anecdote: there is a 5.0+ pro coach that coaches his son out of our neighborhood and now and then he will come and goof off with us and rotate in to our mixed practices. Even he cannot hold some of the weakest women's serves for them all the time... )

I have found that going through heroics to hold a weaker partner's very weak serve works hard against me in the long run. First, I cannot go through heroics for the duration of a match, so I play weaker later in the match, second, of course, I'm only a 3.5, so heroics are hit or miss - I will make more mistakes as I try to force more plays and try to play above my level. Additionally, it lets my partner think she's doing an OK job of holding her serve if I am successful and that it's OK for her to just floof that stupid powder puff serve in for mixed matches. Later on during the match, when the errors catch up to me from the heroics or I am out of gas from the heroics, my partner will think the reason we're not holding her serve anymore is because I am letting her down.

On the other hand, if I let my partner learn that her serve isn't cutting it in mixed, she may decide she needs to work on that serve and actually do so in the days between matches - that's a win for everyone. However, sometimes it has the effect of the partner getting mad at me and not wanting to play with me any more, which is a win for me in such cases, because it's no fun playing with someone who thinks that their job ends when their serve bounces in the serve box and that the man should be holding her serve for her. Fortunately, there are only one or two people like the latter on my mixed team.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I have played a bit of mixed, as a 3.5, with partners from 2.5 to 3.5 against everything from 4.0 to 2.5. The strategy for holding my own serve, which is pretty strong: 100+ mph flat, hard slice, and high bouncing kicker

You could have just stopped there. A 3.5 with a 100 mph flat and also slice and kicker is a 4.5 that needs to work on the rest of his game, not a standard 3.5. You should never have trouble holding your serve as you will never need to hit a second ball against most teams in 6.0 and 7.0 mixed.

I can hold my serve with a 70 mph flat, a 50 mph slice and a 40 mph topspin second. Now that needs a little strategy. And still with those pumpkin serves I rarely have more than a 3 shot rally.

 

[Cawlin]

You could have just stopped there. A 3.5 with a 100 mph flat and also slice and kicker is a 4.5 that needs to work on the rest of his game, not a standard 3.5. You should never have trouble holding your serve as you will never need to hit a second ball against most teams in 6.0 and 7.0 mixed.

I can hold my serve with a 70 mph flat, a 50 mph slice and a 40 mph topspin second. Now that needs a little strategy. And still with those pumpkin serves I rarely have more than a 3 shot rally.

Well, I have caveatted this numerous times - If I'm getting those big serves in on a given day (or even two of them), I will almost always be getting free points/aces and will have no problems holding my serve... you've seen me post it - if I'm not getting those free points/aces on my serve, though, and I'mplaying with a 2.5 partner, I'm sunk.

Last night was an example - there were 7 roster players present for mixed practice - I made the 8th... but I was playing with the lower line players (3.0 woman and 3.0 man opponent, 2.5 woman for my partner), and against them, I don't serve monster stuff, I just give them what is equivalent to my "easy" second serves - moderate slices and kicks, because this is what they'll see in their matches.. no sense ripping serves at them - they are practicing building points - so I give them stuff they can handle... all second serves for my first serves, and dinks on actual second serves, etc. However after about 90 minutes of trying to get my 2.5 partner to just do any of the little adjustments I was trying to convince her to do without any real headway being made, I was getting a bit frustrated not holding a single serve game of my own with this 2.5 woman practice partner. Plus, the husband of my 3.0 woman opponent was sitting on the sidelines and razzing me a bit (good naturedly, but I think he just wanted to see me serve big), so I aired out the big stuff...

First serve was a short super wide kick serve (lefty style) for an ace - it had crossed the sideline of the neighboring court before it got to the baseline of either court - filthy. The receiving woman didn't even move. Next serve, ripping flat serve wide to the deep corner of the serve box - six inches inside the line in either direction - the receiving guy flailed at it, but it was past him before he really even got his racket out - ace. Next serve, hard slice right up the T (lefty style) receiving woman flailed at it with her backhand, but never got her racket within 3 feet of it - ace. Next serve - hard slice into the body of the receiving male - he got his racket on it, but it was more self defense than anything - ball didn't come back... love hold. That's what a good serve day looks like for me... but if I am not having that good serving day, and I have that 2.5 partner, there is trouble letting the opponents hit the ball to my partner, which they can often do, or figure out to do quickly enough.

I do wish the rest of my ground and net game were as solid as my serve game, I would be a pretty legit 4.0 I believe, but that ground game is harder to develop for me than the serve was... admittedly I have put a WHOLE LOT of effort into my serve game over the past couple years... but then, I was a college baseball pitcher, and what's the fun of playing tennis if you can't serve like a monster?

 

[Dartagnan64]

I was a college baseball pitcher, and what's the fun of playing tennis if you can't serve like a monster?

I don't know, being smart and winning with an all court game and guile?

I know chicks dig the long ball, but small ball wins sometimes too and can feel pretty good when you take down the big hitter.

 

[J B]

I’ve heard from coaches pitchers especially college or better have crazy kick serves and serves period.

 

[Pro Kenneth]

You could have just stopped there. A 3.5 with a 100 mph flat and also slice and kicker is a 4.5 that needs to work on the rest of his game, not a standard 3.5. You should never have trouble holding your serve as you will never need to hit a second ball against most teams in 6.0 and 7.0 mixed.

I can hold my serve with a 70 mph flat, a 50 mph slice and a 40 mph topspin second. Now that needs a little strategy. And still with those pumpkin serves I rarely have more than a 3 shot rally.

Duh ... Tt forum guys only have three digit plus serves.

Just like we are all 6'3", jacked, and it was our partner's fault--I can't get to everything myself!