Stretching Duration to Increase Length - 30 seconds, 5 minutes or what?

[Chas Tennis]

Stretch Duration to Increase Length - 30 seconds, 5 minutes or what?

To stretch a muscle-tendon unit to increase its length long term, what stretch durations are the most effective?

I just saw the Dr in order to avoid some mild plantar fasciitis from getting worse. The Dr told me to stretch for 5 minutes to effectively 'permanently' increase the muscle-tendon length.

The Dr also prescribed a secession of physical therapy including calf stretches. The instruction from the physical therapist was based on 30 second stretches.

On this forum, 5 minute stretches have been discussed as effective for some issues by RogueFlip. I tried one and the stretch felt different and seemed to be very effective. Does Yogi incorporate these long duration stretches?

In addition to stretch duration, the well-know technique of applying muscular contraction while stretching, relaxing, and then stretching again to increase range of motion works. How does that muscular contraction fit in to stretching?

Last, what are we stretching? Are we moving the muscle cells around, or the sacomeres, or can we lengthen the sacomeres themselves? Do we really stretch tendons? Fascias? I suppose that when the range of motion increases beyond the normal ROM at some point there are negative characteristics introduced, maybe strength loss, loss of stability, etc.

One reference I believe says that stretching affects the sacomere number or length - I have to look more into that very interesting point.

Related thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=502109

 

[ollinger]

These are the sorts of studies (comparing different stretch durations) that seldom get done any more since there's no obvious commercial source of funding.

 

[Mr.Lob]

I've heard to hold stretch for 30 seconds from a friend. My podiatsist told me to hold for 2 minutes for achilles tendon...calf stretches. In morning, before a match, and before bedtims.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Information: Muscle cells and Sacomeres, Actin & Myosin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcomere

 

[SouthboundAgain]

You mean hold one stretch for a whole 5 minutes? That seems like much longer than I've ever been told by a Doctor or Physical Therapist.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Yes, 5 minutes.

Chas,

The fascia contains elastin and collagen fibers. Collagen has a very strong tensile strength. Your 30 second stretches won't even begin to engage the collagenous barrier.

Kudos to you for getting better doing what you did. I'm not saying that 30 second holds won't get results. I'm contending that you would have corrected your issues faster if you stretched the way I have been suggesting in this post and previous.

Gentle, slow in and out of, softening into it. Minimum of 5 min.

And prob even faster results if you incorporated some soft tissue work like the myofascial release or trigger point to break up the tight tissue along with the stretching.

A lot of traditional physical therapists advocate exercise sized base protocols as the primary means of correcting postural issues. I should know, that's how I was trained. So yes, posterior based exercises for forward head and rounded shoulders are quite the norm in a traditional orthopedic PT setting. Oh you'll get some manual tricks here and there...but the focus is on exercise.

Another post on the 5 minute stretch.

The idea of a long duration stretch is very interesting. Before I tell my experience with a 5 minute stretch - I like the technique and will be doing it again. I thought that you might have some experience that might bear on what happened to me

Background -

I know that I have tight piriformis muscles. I have stretched them in the past with good results. I don't like some piriformis stretches partly because of my tightness and partly because of the effort. The "Figure 4" that I had used, for example, takes a lot of arm pulling to get much of a stretch. I'm looking for other stretch options.

"Figure 4" stretch that I have used in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxsDfXBDZec

Have not tried this
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Lying-Piriformis-str.htm

Or this - I don't think I'm flexible enough for this one.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Piriformis_str.htm

Another stretch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl474z1bhnk

Just found
http://www.charlottesocceracademy.c...e in Stretching the Hip Piriformis Muscle.pdf

I had found another piriformis stretch - seated, cross the legs, ankle on one knee, and lean forward to feel the piriformis stretch. This allows the body weight to contribute to the stretch. This Youtube shows a way to do it in good form.
Seated Piriformis Stretch, similar to what I did for the the 5 minute stretch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZ517Rw7ME

--------------------------------------------------

Now for my 5 minute stretch experience

I sat in the position with one ankle on the knee (see Seated Piriformis Stretch). I applied very light pressure by leaning forward. I held it for 5 minutes and felt that it was really doing something.

That eve or the next day I went to play doubles. In the last set of 2 hours of tennis, I started getting considerable pain in the area between the trunk and thigh or toward hip, one side. I could still play but it was bothering me. After tennis, it hurt mostly very near the area of the stretch. The next morning it still hurt and I cancelled my tennis for the eve. By noon the pain had mostly gone away so that I wanted to play tennis again. After that, no problem.

I guess that the 5 minute stretch had gotten to a muscle and it was causing it to spasm. ?

Anyway, I wanted to ask your opinion on my experience.

When my Dr said to hold a calf stretch for "5 minutes", I asked again to double checked.

No one should stretch injured tissues without the approval of a Dr aware of your condition and the supervision of a physical therapist.

Maybe stretches are changing?

 

[SouthboundAgain]

Wow. 5 minutes is hardcore. I have trouble holding stretches for more than a minute. For tough stretches like the piriformis (I used the pigeon stretch effectively to deal with that problem), 5 minutes sounds like torture.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I think that you have to find stretching techniques that more use force from your weight as opposed to the 'figure four' type piriformis stretch that is already tough because it uses arm muscle power (not weight). The sitting piriformis stretch uses more weight.

 

[Chas Tennis]

For pecs I'm leaning forward in a door opening with both arms on the door frame. It feels effective and is not difficult. I've only done this for a few days so I can't report results.

Calf stretches are a little hard because I'm supporting some of my weight with my arms. I can find a better position against a wall instead of over a railing using my arms.

I stretch the rectus femorus with shin supported on a table. This stretch uses my weight, is still uncomfortable, but I could do.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Sarcomerogenesis

This is a heavy duty article but the first page talks about stretching and sacomeres.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3462200/#!po=5.00000

I yet need to read the discussion parts of the article.

 

[RogueFLIP]

Some clarifications on the 5 min stretches:

You don't need to take the stretch to the end range of motion. Once you feel a little resistance, a slight and comfortable stretch, this is the point where you stop and hold. Allow your body to SOFTEN into the stretch. After a bit of time (YMMV), you'll feel the tissue start to melt so to speak. At this point you can stay where you are or gently take up the slack until you feel mild resistance again. Again, allow your body to soften into the stretch. You may continue the cycle for as long as you like.

You need to go into the stretch slowly as to not let the tissue engage the stretch reflex.....and you need to disengage slowly from the stretch so not to have a "rebound" effect.

As long as you don't force anything, you will not injure yourself.
As long as you don't force anything, you will not "overstretch" anything.

Stretches should not be painful or feel like torture. If so, you're def forcing the issue.

I personally prefer doing stretches where gravity does most of the work. IE hanging my ankles off stairs to stretch my calves. Or I have a Prostretch

http://www.medi-dyne.com/images/prostretch-manual.pdf

But again YMMV....there's many positions for many body parts. Some I think "work" better than others but again, some people may not be able to tolerate them.

 

[RogueFLIP]

As posted above, the fascial system (connective tissue) is the environment in which everything else (muscle, nerve, bone, etc.) lies in. It's comprised of elastin and collagen fibers.

Stretching for short amounts of time will only engage the elastic component. To make more permanent changes (until you of course stress the area again) (and notice I said changes, not lengthen), you need to engage the collagenous barrier.

Collagen in the fascial system has a very high tensile strength. I mean think about it....how strong it has to be to resist the earth's gravitation pull? Bc if it wasn't that strong, you wouldn't be able to stand upright. Then think about all that stop and go motions, pulling and pushing from a tennis match. Yet all your internal structure remain safely in place thanks to the fascial system.

And yet people think they're making worthwhile changes with 30 second stretches? I think not.

Note that I'm not saying that short duration stretches don't feel good or cannot aid in the healing process. They can. I'm just saying that a lower intensity load stretch held for a longer duration instead of a high intensity stretch held for a short duration is more effective to elicit change in the system.


Also involved in stretching of course is a neurological component. You're not exactly lengthening nerves, but basically you're increasing the body's tolerance of the stretch. The contract/relax method isn't necessarily increasing the length of the tissue as it is more inhibiting temporarily the neurological resistance of the tissue.

Illustrated by if you measure your ROM, do the contract/relax to stretch a body part, measure the ROM again, most of the time you'll notice an increase in ROM. Check back a few hours later, and you'll notice your gains have decreased somewhat or completely altogether.

I'm not a science guy, my explanations for John Barnes' stretching rationale are pretty oversimplified. Just like with a lot of the body's functions, things are a lot more complicated than it seems.

 

[Tyrus]

Yogi here.

Asanas are mostly meant to be held for 5 breaths. These are long, steady (think 4-6 count) breaths from the diaphragm...this does not include the breath you take entering and exiting the asana.

That's about 20-30 seconds per stretch depending on how long of a breath you take.

Hatha usually holds a bit longer, but not 5 minutes longer, maybe 10-15 breaths depending on the intensity of the asana.

The Yin/Restorative practice holds their asanas for much longer, plenty of 5 minute stretches, especially when doing something like childs pose, pigeon, or resting with feet elevated on the wall for example.

In your case, it depends on what's being stretched, and what you feel while stretching it, certain stretches I can hold for 5 minutes without a problem, others I couldn't last longer than 30 seconds.

What matters is that you are comfortable doing them.

 

[Tyrus]

You don't need to take the stretch to the end range of motion. Once you feel a little resistance, a slight and comfortable stretch, this is the point where you stop and hold.

This ^^^

You're actually supposed to back off a bit from the point of resistance. It is incredibly easy it is to hurt oneself while stretching. It's not supposed to hurt.

 

[Chas Tennis]

This is a heavy duty article but the first page talks about stretching and sacomeres.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3462200/#!po=5.00000

I yet need to read the discussion parts of the article.

This is an interesting topic.

From the above reference - "Skeletal muscle responds to passive overstretch through sarcomerogenesis, the creation and serial deposition of new sarcomere units."

Muscle cells have many sacomeres, sacomeres have many Actin & Myosin 'sliding filament' units as well as Titin, a giant protein molecule that accounts for the elastic characteristics of muscle.

Regarding exercises intended for muscle growth, I have often read that the number of muscle cells is not thought to increase when muscles grow, a somewhat controversial issue.

Then is muscle growth from heavy exercises due to creating new sacomeres, in a similar process as for stretching?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I have been doing longer stretches for 30-50 seconds since January with some pretty decent results. Have also been doing myo-facial release "stretches" for 2-6 minutes at each location since last year. The longer duration has certainly seemed to help my old broken body.

Thanks for the insight RF and CT.
.