Stretching Pros & Cons? [Merged]

[heycal]

Recently here and elsewhere I've seen articles and people advocating the idea that stretching before a match, particularly that old fashioned static kind, is a bad idea, not helpful at all, and even potentially harmful. They say light jogging or other light aerobic to get the body temperature up and a few beads of sweat going is the better and more effective way to prevent injuries.

Do we buy this? (I'm mostly directing this post to the older players here, not 15 year old high school players with limber limbs and muscles.) I can easily believe that a light jog and nice warm up is beneficial -- I buy that concept for sure -- but what of this no stretching idea?

Right now, I end up doing both -- static stretching and light jog-type activity, afraid to abandon the stretching all together. But man, I'd love to give up the pre-match stretching. It's a boring, tedious endeavor. But I don't want to pop a calf or whatever because I was suckered into the lateast trend in exercizing and actually believed I didn't need to stretch before a match...

What say you guys?

 

[PimpMyGame]

Never been a fan of pre-match stretching. Light warm up yes, post-match stretching yes, but never pre-match. Always concerns me that something will snap if I do stretching stuff when cold.

 

[heycal]

Yes, I concede that going from dead cold to a violent deep stretch could be dangerous, will give you that. But assuming we don't do that, what do we think of pre-match stretching in general?

 

[jazar]

doing static stretches before exercise results in decreased force production in muscles for the following hour, which will lead to sub-maximal performance. it can also lead to an increased chance of pulling/straining muscles.

dynamic flex exercises are a much better approach as they incorporate things similar to static stretching into movement based activities.

and you can trust what i say, as i am a sports scientist

 

[Geezer Guy]

I never do static stretches before I play. I just run around slow and easy during the first part of the warm-up rally, and gradually increase the intensity of excertion. I've never had any problems (other than occasional calf cramps, which stretching wouldn't prevent anyway).

And, although I know I should, I don't stretch afterwards either.

 

[heycal]

dynamic flex exercises are a much better approach as they incorporate things similar to static stretching into movement based activities.

what would be some examples of specific exercises like this, particularly for my vulnerable calves, each of which tore once in recent years?

 

[jazar]

what would be some examples of specific exercises like this, particularly for my vulnerable calves, each of which tore once in recent years?

general dynamic flex exercises would be things like cross-over steps, skipping, high knees, dead-leg lift, kicking your heels up to your bum, lunges. one for the calves would be ankle flicks

 

[heycal]

general dynamic flex exercises would be things like cross-over steps, skipping, high knees, dead-leg lift, kicking your heels up to your bum, lunges. one for the calves would be ankle flicks

that stuff sounds pretty dangerous for a cold body too... plus, if you have to do all that, you end still having to do that cursed stretching thing before a match anyway, just a different kind...

How necessary would you say these dynamic stretches are? Can one just do the light job type of warm up instead and skip these exercises?

And what does a calf-helping "ankle flick" consist of, anyway?

 

[maleyoyo]

I've been lifting weight for years and my stretching routine is not pre or post but during the workout between sets.
With tennis, a good pre-game dynamic warm up is a must and I follow the routine recommended by Donald Chu in his book "Power Tennis Training". I lightly stretch during the match whenever I can and finish it off with a quick 5 min cool down after the match.

 

[jazar]

that stuff sounds pretty dangerous for a cold body too... plus, if you have to do all that, you end still having to do that cursed stretching thing before a match anyway, just a different kind...

How necessary would you say these dynamic stretches are? Can one just do the light job type of warm up instead and skip these exercises?

And what does a calf-helping "ankle flick" consist of, anyway?

its not dangerous at all, in fact a warm-up consisting of dynamic flex exercises is a perfect and recommened warm-up before a tennis match or training.

ankle flicks are just flexing then extending your ankle when you bring your leg up during jogging.

 

[heycal]

its not dangerous at all, in fact a warm-up consisting of dynamic flex exercises is a perfect and recommened warm-up before a tennis match or training.

ankle flicks are just flexing then extending your ankle when you bring your leg up during jogging.

The ankle flicks sound like a recipe for a broken ankle if you try and pull that off while jogging and land the wrong way

how about just a light jog instead of learning a whole new stretch routine? Will that do that trick?

 

[jazar]

The ankle flicks sound like a recipe for a broken ankle if you try and pull that off while jogging and land the wrong way

how about just a light jog instead of learning a whole new stretch routine? Will that do that trick?

seriously the ankle flicks are easy, its not like you have to do them at any kind of speed, in fact its best to do it slowly so you can get as full a range of movement as possible. i've seen like 10 year old kids doing them.

a light jog is ok, but incorporating dynamic flex exercises into your warm up will not only provide a better warm up, it'll help increase coordination. the vast majority of professional athletes use dynamic flex exercises in their warm ups

 

[superman1]

It'll reduce the chance of straining a muscle. I was doing squats yesterday with a sore hip flexor. I just kept doing warm-up squats and stretching it out, and eventually the soreness went away. So stretching is important, and I say that as someone who frequently forgets to stretch (hence the sore hip flexor).

 

[heycal]

It'll reduce the chance of straining a muscle. I was doing squats yesterday with a sore hip flexor. I just kept doing warm-up squats and stretching it out, and eventually the soreness went away. So stretching is important, and I say that as someone who frequently forgets to stretch (hence the sore hip flexor).

I guess those fall into the dynamic stretch category, huh?

So the consensus here, at least so far, seems to be jogging and/or dynamic stretches so far. No one doing any good old fashion static stretches before a match?

 

[tricky]

Main thing is to raise core temperature in problem areas. Sometimes general movement (i.e. light jogging or biking) isn't sufficient.

Flexion exercises like what jazar is suggesting is a very efficient way of doing this.

 

[waves2ya]

I'm in the dynamic warm-up camp (see prior posts); caught flack for it but now - is 'the next thing'...

Stretching correctly is as important as lifting properly. Laxity where you should have stablity is a bad thing (think 'back pain').

Rethink yoga; breath good, weird postures bad.

 

[TonyB]

I just "loosen up" my joints and muscles, but I do not stretch. I used to, and I used to get injured. Now I don't stretch, and I don't get injured. Coincidence? Who knows.

 

[heycal]

Main thing is to raise core temperature in problem areas.

Could I just light a match and hold it under my calves to heat them up, or stick my leg in the oven for a bit before a match?

 

[heycal]

Anybody object here and think that static stretching IS still very beneficial before a match?

 

[Double Fault]

I'm 25 and I don't stretch before or after a mach. I'm lazy.

I do warm up by hitting the ball from the service line for a while and doing it nice and easy, but after that I work my way back and hit from the baseline easy at first and then work it up to my regular swing.

 

[WildVolley]

This topic has been beaten to death in past threads. I actually posted a link and some citations to published research showing the downside to static stretching prior to competing.

If you think there's a secret conspiracy against static stretching, then maybe there's something to argue about. As for me, I'll stick with the research evidence.

 

[Ano]

I completely agree with jazar and wildvolley.

If you want to learn how to incorporate dynamic stretching into your routine, I strongly suggest you buy this dvd.

And No, I'm not affiliated with this website, and I will not get a commission.

I recommend this dvd because I honestly think this dvd will be very beneficial for you.

http://magnificentmobility.com/

 

[heycal]

This topic has been beaten to death in past threads. I actually posted a link and some citations to published research showing the downside to static stretching prior to competing.

If you think there's a secret conspiracy against static stretching, then maybe there's something to argue about. As for me, I'll stick with the research evidence.

As we all know, some "research evidence" is later proven to be false. As we also all know, trends and beliefs about exercizing (not to mention diet) come and go all the time. Five years from now, static stretching could be the latest thing and dynamic stretching an ill-conceived fad for all we know. So much of this stuff is conjecture anyway...

So I'm less interested in links to websites to read allegedly expert opinions about such matters than I am hearing first hand experiences from actual tennis players, older ones specifically, about what they do and don't do before a match and how it helps or hurts them.

 

[heycal]

This topic has been beaten to death in past threads.

Virtually every topic has been beaten to death here, fella. If we didn't beat topics to death, no one would ever post anything...

 

[WildVolley]

As we all know, some "research evidence" is later proven to be false. As we also all know, trends and beliefs about exercizing (not to mention diet) come and go all the time. Five years from now, static stretching could be the latest thing and dynamic stretching an ill-conceived fad for all we know. So much of this stuff is conjecture anyway...

So I'm less interested in links to websites to read allegedly expert opinions about such matters than I am hearing first hand experiences from actual tennis players, older ones specifically, about what they do and don't do before a match and how it helps or hurts them.

No research is perfect, but I'll have to disagree with your preference for anecdotal evidence over structured studies with control groups, empirical tests, and well designed statistical work. Most of these studies are conducted by professors and grad students who are not trying to push an agenda. I think the downside to static stretching probably came as a surprise to many researchers because it has been exercise dogma for such a long time.

In any case, my personal experience comports with the research. I never static stretch prior to competing. I warm up, usually wearing sweats, and work my way into full speed movement by going through the paces slowly at first until I'm warm.

 

[heycal]

No research is perfect, but I'll have to disagree with your preference for anecdotal evidence over structured studies with control groups, empirical tests, and well designed statistical work. Most of these studies are conducted by professors and grad students who are not trying to push an agenda. I think the downside to static stretching probably came as a surprise to many researchers because it has been exercise dogma for such a long time.

In any case, my personal experience comports with the research. I never static stretch prior to competing. I warm up, usually wearing sweats, and work my way into full speed movement by going through the paces slowly at first until I'm warm.

I don't reject all research, or even have a preference for anecdotal evidence. But I am skeptical by nature, particularly of trends and fads in health and fitness. And since I'm already familiar with the basic concepts of the new research and read a couple of articles on it -- as I mentioned in the OP -- I see more value in now seeking first hand reports rather than hearing again about the research, the very research which I'm already somewhat familiar with...

So forget the classroom for now -- what's the word on the street!

 

[WildVolley]

Just to recap the research results for clarification. The studies show a decrease in performance due to static stretching. This seems well verified.

A number of other studies show no benefit in terms of injury reduction from pre-exercise static stretching. Most of these studies don't show any injury increase either.

The studies I've read, overall, don't completely dismiss static stretching. Stretching programs have been shown to give some performance gains, but these occur over time and you can reap these benefits by static stretching after your workout or competition, rather than before.

 

[Chauvalito]

Recently here and elsewhere I've seen articles and people advocating the idea that stretching before a match, particularly that old fashioned static kind, is a bad idea, not helpful at all, and even potentially harmful. They say light jogging or other light aerobic to get the body temperature up and a few beads of sweat going is the better and more effective way to prevent injuries.

Do we buy this? (I'm mostly directing this post to the older players here, not 15 year old high school players with limber limbs and muscles.) I can easily believe that a light jog and nice warm up is beneficial -- I buy that concept for sure -- but what of this no stretching idea?

Right now, I end up doing both -- static stretching and light jog-type activity, afraid to abandon the stretching all together. But man, I'd love to give up the pre-match stretching. It's a boring, tedious endeavor. But I don't want to pop a calf or whatever because I was suckered into the lateast trend in exercizing and actually believed I didn't need to stretch before a match...

What say you guys?

I think the consensus is to stretch after the light warm up you described.

 

[heycal]

I hope that research you keep peddling is true, wildvolley, because you crazy guys here have just about convinced me to go out there to play next time without doing any boring static stretches first....

 

[Chauvalito]

Just to recap the research results for clarification. The studies show a decrease in performance due to static stretching. This seems well verified.

A number of other studies show no benefit in terms of injury reduction from pre-exercise static stretching. Most of these studies don't show any injury increase either.

The studies I've read, overall, don't completely dismiss static stretching. Stretching programs have been shown to give some performance gains, but these occur over time and you can reap these benefits by static stretching after your workout or competition, rather than before.

Exactly...

 

[WildVolley]

I don't reject all research, or even have a preference for anecdotal evidence. But I am skeptical by nature, particularly of trends and fads in health and fitness. And since I'm already familiar with the basic concepts of the new research and read a couple of articles on it -- as I mentioned in the OP -- I see more value in now seeking first hand reports rather than hearing again about the research, the very research which I'm already somewhat familiar with...

So forget the classroom for now -- what's the word on the street!

I didn't see this post when I last posted. I'm still under 40, so I'm not sure my experience is relevant. On the weekend, I play with guys from 20 to 70 years old. I don't see any fewer injuries among the old guys that fastidiously stretch out than among the old guys that just jog around a bit and do active twists and swings and lunges before playing.

 

[Chauvalito]

They say light jogging or other light aerobic to get the body temperature up and a few beads of sweat going is the better and more effective way to prevent injuries.

You said it well yourself. The warm up above as you mentioned should be light, nothing extensive or strenuous. with light stretching after the warm up, and prior to play.

 

[heycal]

You said it well yourself. The warm up above as you mentioned should be light, nothing extensive or strenuous. with light stretching after the warm up, and prior to play.

Damn it, I thought we just decided we didn't need any of this stretching nonsense before a match!

 

[WildVolley]

Damn it, I thought we just decided we didn't need any of this stretching nonsense before a match!

I don't know if you'd call it static stretching, but my dog does some light stretching when she gets up after lying down for a while. The dog isn't thinking about reducing injuries and isn't holding the stretch very long. The dog must like the way it feels.

I don't think the sort of stretches you do when you're tired and yawn will necessarily hamper your performance.:twisted:

 

[Rickson]

Recently here and elsewhere I've seen articles and people advocating the idea that stretching before a match, particularly that old fashioned static kind, is a bad idea, not helpful at all, and even potentially harmful. They say light jogging or other light aerobic to get the body temperature up and a few beads of sweat going is the better and more effective way to prevent injuries.

Do we buy this? (I'm mostly directing this post to the older players here, not 15 year old high school players with limber limbs and muscles.) I can easily believe that a light jog and nice warm up is beneficial -- I buy that concept for sure -- but what of this no stretching idea?

Right now, I end up doing both -- static stretching and light jog-type activity, afraid to abandon the stretching all together. But man, I'd love to give up the pre-match stretching. It's a boring, tedious endeavor. But I don't want to pop a calf or whatever because I was suckered into the lateast trend in exercizing and actually believed I didn't need to stretch before a match...

What say you guys?

Sorry, bro, can't agree with you. Static stretching before the actual workout is a no no. Warming up means you get your heart rate up and get that blood flow to the muscles, but stretching should be reserved for after the match.

 

[heycal]

I don't know if you'd call it static stretching, but my dog does some light stretching when she gets up after lying down for a while. The dog isn't thinking about reducing injuries and isn't holding the stretch very long. The dog must like the way it feels.

I don't think the sort of stretches you do when you're tired and yawn will necessarily hamper your performance.:twisted:

My dog does that kind of stretching too -- and I'd easily beat her 6-0,6-0 if she challenged me to a match. What does that tell you?

 

[heycal]

Sorry, bro, can't agree with you. Static stretching before the actual workout is a no no.

I didn't say it was necessarily a good idea, just that I did it...

 

[Rickson]

I didn't say it was necessarily a good idea, just that I did it...

If your goal is flexibility, try a good warmup and then stretch, but don't play a match. Your range of motion will increase daily and soon you won't depend on static stretching before a match as you'll be flexible enough to run with long strides even without prematch stretching. Warming up should never be confused with stretching because they're 2 different things and although I'm not saying you've mixed up the 2, many people make that mistake and injure themselves. To reiterate, warm up first then stretch, but not before a match. You'll improve your range of motion in no time.

 

[heycal]

If your goal is flexibility, try a good warmup and then stretch, but don't play a match.

My main goal is to do as little as possible before playing a match and still not get injured. That is my goal.

In a perfect world, I wouldn't even rally before a match... just walk on the court and boom, hit the first serve! Actually did that once as a kid with another guy who had no patience for warm ups of any kind. Literally hit the first serve seconds after stepping on the court. Got right down to business and loved it! But age, and bad calf tears, and TE, and shoulder issues, have made those days seem so far away now...

 

[Rickson]

My main goal is to do as little as possible before playing a match and still not get injured. That is my goal.

Well, you're setting yourself up for just that, getting injured. Try dynamic stretching instead. Let me give you an example: A static stretch for the shoulder would be to touch your opposite hand to your elbow and pull the hand toward your upper chest. A dynamic stretch would be to do big arm circles. A static stretch for the hamstrings would be to place your foot on a bench and reach toward that leg. A dynamic stretch for the glutes, quads, and hamstrings would be to do some knee bends or squats with your own bodyweight (not deep knee bends). Do you see the difference? Don't relax your muscles by static stretching before a match. Get them match ready by dynamic stretching them.

 

[BeHappy]

Anybody object here and think that static stretching IS still very beneficial before a match?

no, it's not.

Studies designed to illustrate that they are have all proved the opposite.

 

[Sentinel]

My dog does that kind of stretching too -- and I'd easily beat her 6-0,6-0 if she challenged me to a match. What does that tell you?

haha, but how about a 100 meter dash ?

 

[jazar]

Anybody object here and think that static stretching IS still very beneficial before a match?

anyone who does is:

1. an idiot
2. going to get injured if they keep doing static stretching beforehand.

if you dont believe all this stuff i can post the results of some of the studies on this topic

 

[Mark Rainey]

Stretches

Any type of stretches, static or otherwise, is non-sense. I do not stretch before or after exercise. Some may feel "better", just as most of us have taken vitamins at some time in our lives. But the vitamin industry is a billion dollar scam. For all of us, it is a waste of money. And stretches are of waste of time.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I think the consensus is to stretch after the light warm up you described.

You said it well yourself. The warm up above as you mentioned should be light, nothing extensive or strenuous. with light stretching after the warm up, and prior to play.

No, this is not the consensus. After an initial warmup, as part of a dynamic warm up, perform some dynamic stretching -- this is not same as light stretching. The static stretching should be preformed after tennis or after your workout (as part of your cool down routine).

Note that the dynamic stretching should be fairly gentle. It should not attempt to exceed the normal range of motion -- that would make it a ballistic stretch. Dynamic stretching should not be confused with ballistic stretching.

I hope that research you keep peddling is true, wildvolley, because you crazy guys here have just about convinced me to go out there to play next time without doing any boring static stretches first....

The message is not to disregard pre-exercise stretching. The word is to replace your pre-game static stretching with dynamic stretching instead. You should still perform post-exercise static stretching for long-range improvements in flexibility or range of motion. The cool-down stretching may also help to minimize post-exercise soreness.

As we all know, some "research evidence" is later proven to be false. As we also all know, trends and beliefs about exercizing (not to mention diet) come and go all the time. Five years from now, static stretching could be the latest thing and dynamic stretching an ill-conceived fad for all we know. So much of this stuff is conjecture anyway...

The notion of performing dynamic stretching as part of the pre-exercise warm up with static stretching reserved for post-exercise is hardly a passing fad. Great strides have been made in sports science (biomechanics and related fields) in the past 2 decades. I have seen a very natural progression in the thinking regarding stretching since the late '80s.

In the early '90s, the latest word was that post-exercise stretching was probably more important than pre-exercise stretching. Later in the decade, reports were coming out that indicated that pre-exercise (static) stretching was probably not needed at all for some sports. A few years after that, I was hearing reports that static stretching did not appear to prevent injuries as once thought. Further, studies earlier in this decade appeared to suggest that pre-exercise static stretching might possibly be doing more harm than good.

As others have mentioned, pre-exercise static stretching has been found to degrade athletic performance (for 20 minutes to an hour or more). This may be due to the way that the stretch-reflex stresses the muscles and tendons. Furthermore, numerous studies have not shown any reduction in injuries for most sports when pre-exercise static stretching was employed.

In fact, it appears that for some sports, injuries appear to increase as a result of pre-exercise static stretching. Not sure if any studies have borne this out, but many professional teams and athletes have abandoned the practice of static stretches as part of a warm up routine. I believe that same thinking has been adopted by top university teams and athletes.

I suggest that you go with the scientific research and what elite athletes are doing rather than what the average tennis Joe suggests. It appears that most of the population really isn't up to speed on this. I'm amazed that most people have still not heard about dynamic stretching or the reports about static stretching that I mentioned above. It appears that most PE teachers & coaches in elementary schools, high schools, and even in community colleges are ignorant of this stuff. They are still spouting information that they learned 20 years ago!!!

Note that the USTA Player Development (for High-Performance Players) adopted the notion of a dynamic warm up and post-exercise static stretching some 4 or 5 years ago.

USTA Stretching & Warm-Up FAQ

Dynamic Warm-up and Flexibility Training info

Dynamic Warm-Up: Stretching & Exercise routine


Other resources:

Tennis.com - Stretching: The Truth

US Olympic Team coaching - Performance Benefits of the Warm-Up

 

[johnny ballgame]

Right now, I end up doing both -- static stretching and light jog-type activity, afraid to abandon the stretching all together. But man, I'd love to give up the pre-match stretching. It's a boring, tedious endeavor. But I don't want to pop a calf or whatever because I was suckered into the lateast trend in exercizing and actually believed I didn't need to stretch before a match...

What say you guys?

I agree that "dynamic warmup" is the way to go, ditch the static stretching pre-match. But remember, static stretching DURING A MATCH on the changeovers can be very helpful if certain muscles (like a calf or quad) are getting tight.

 

[zebano]

I will give you your anecdotal evidence. I ran crosscountry (5k) races in high school. Initially, I did what everyone else did before a meet/practice which was 10 minutes of slow warm up jog, 5 minutes of dynamic stretches, then a full series of static stretches. After the static stretches I always noticed that my hamstrings did not feel as powerful as before. I dropped that part of the routine (instead I stretched post-workout) and my times improved (not great evidence since this was my freshman year and I was still getting faster and building endurance).

I experimented briefly with static stretching during tennis season, but I always noticed my hamstrings so I limited it to post-workout. I've never noticed any ill-affects from static stretching pre-practice in any area of my body other than the hamstrings however.

 

[Serve em Up]

I'm 45. I need at least an easy 15 minute warm up, some dynamic stretching before tennis or running. \
Afterwards, I need at least 15 minutes of cool down followed by Static Stretches.

If I don't do this I get hurt, or I cease up, or both. I have alot of lower back problems. Stretching the hamstrings really helps.

 

[fuzz nation]

Hmmm...

The very first time I took a yoga class - I think we can agree that there's a lot of static stretching going on there - I was flat USELESS for the next few hours. Zonked! Wouldn't have wanted to play tennis or do much else afterward, but I was too stubborn to just take a nap. I can say that yoga has been substantially good for me in terms of stretching well for better range of motion, but I've also never had better balance than after I got a few sessions under my belt. It's been great for me as a tennis player, but I definately wouldn't want to do it in the hours before I go to the courts.

Some of those stretches/positions have become much more routine for me to use after I play. If I get a good stretch for my hips, lower back, hamstrings, groin, quads, calves, etc. as soon as I'm done at the courts (before I even go home), I see real benefits in terms of better recovery and sustained flexibility. If I neglect it, the chronic soreness and stiffness sneak back into a few familiar places, even if I'm in my best tennis shape.

Before I play a match, I don't feel right until I've gotten my heart rate up and gotten my major muscle groups worked in a little bit. Otherwise I have to endure that lag at the outset of a match. Static stretching is minimal for me at that point, but I usually like to give my quads or my lower back an occasional stretch through the middle of the action - maybe on changeovers. If I'm cold, my priority it to get stoked up before I worry about much stretching.

 

[JRstriker12]

Article on Stretching - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/h...f7dbbe43c02c40&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Summary -Warm up and stetching seem to be the best. Stetching alone is not enough to prevent injury. Problem is, there haven't been any studies that have done static stretching only, most of these studies combined a warm up with static stretching.

Also, kind of interesting thaty they point out that flexibility isn't always the best goal for certain sports. They found that the most efficient long distance runners were the stiffest.