Stretching Pros & Cons? [Merged]

[Japanese Maple]

You have provided no physical evidence for your reasoning.

Gmeldo-lol, my physical evidence has been accumulated over the last 30 years from my own experiences, what I have read, and what advice I have received from coaches, trainers, and rehab specialist-some who are the finest in the country and have served me well! Also, I am always observing what professional athletes do before competition to get prepared and I incorporate what they do that may be beneficial to me. As result, I am extremely active and injury free except for a few short lived strains from time to time.

 

[Rickson]

Gmeldo-lol, my physical evidence has been accumulated over the last 30 years from my own experiences

You can't argue with that evidence.

 

[Japanese Maple]

I'm back. I can't take the "sample set of one" reasoning from JM anymore.

Read this:
___________________________________________________

Effects of stretching before and after exercising on muscle soreness and risk of injury: systematic review

Rob D Herbert, senior lecturer, Michael Gabriel, physiotherapist.
School of Physiotherapy, University of Sydney, PO Box 170, Lidcombe, New South Wales 1825, Australia

Objective: To determine the effects of stretching before and after exercising on muscle soreness after exercise, risk of injury, and athletic performance.

Method: Systematic review.

Data sources: Randomised or quasi-randomised studies identified by searching Medline, Embase, CINAHL, SPORTDiscus, and PEDro, and by recursive checking of bibliographies.

Main outcome measures: Muscle soreness, incidence of injury, athletic performance.

Results: Five studies, all of moderate quality, reported sufficient data on the effects of stretching on muscle soreness to be included in the analysis. Outcomes seemed homogeneous. Stretching produced small and statistically non-significant reductions in muscle soreness. The pooled estimate of reduction in muscle soreness 24 hours after exercising was only 0.9 mm on a 100 mm scale (95% confidence interval -2.6 mm to 4.4 mm). Data from two studies on army recruits in military training show that muscle stretching before exercising does not produce useful reductions in injury risk (pooled hazard ratio 0.95, 0.78 to 1.16).

Conclusions: Stretching before or after exercising does not confer protection from muscle soreness. Stretching before exercising does not seem to confer a practically useful reduction in the risk of injury, but the generality of this finding needs testing. Insufficient research has been done with which to determine the effects of stretching on sporting performance.
__________________________________________________

Note that there were 5 sample sets (not 1 individual's results) used. Stretching before or AFTER DID NOT confer protection from muscle soreness. More importantly they state INSUFFICIENT research has been done on the effects of stretching and performance.

Here is the link if you want to dig deeper:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/325/7362/468

BTW, you can find many more studies like this with a little effort.

JM, these are experts, not amateur athletes like yourself. They are not inferring data from a sample set of one or the practices of professional athletes, who BTW are not experts either. I know professional athletes who wear the same underwear for days (or never shave) until they lose. Want to tell us that practice is scientifically validated?

Fanatics close their minds and assume the whole world is just like them. All of you who are attacking this scientifically validated data need to open your minds and at least give it a read. No harm in that, as opposed to the harm caused by telling folks stretching can cure injuries and/or prevent them.

-k-

Netman-you are not really that ignorant to actually think that stretching does not help ameliorate injuries or prevent them in the first place because you would be categorically wrong. Stretching most definitely prevents injuries and is also a main component in the healing process. I have never stated that stretching categorically prevents soreness although it does help along with whirlpools, advil, massages, ect.

Netman-can you find some studies in the US versus Australia, LOL. I think I would take the advice of Pat Etchberry , who trains professional tennis players over some esoteric study that you happened to paste together! I am really not sure what point you are trying to make because your all over the place. Try to be in little more concise next time without any extraneous emotional babble-okay! Make sense?

 

[maverick66]

when will you guys learn that arguing with japanese-maple is useless. no matter what you say he wont back down from his stance. hes gonna continue to give out wrong advice all you guys can due is give the poster who asked for the advice correct information about what to do and move on. let him believe hes right cause its pretty annoying everytime someone has an injury thread it turns into 5 pages of this guy telling everyone how he knows eevery fitness expert and they say stretch till the muscle rips off the bone.

 

[Rickson]

Mav, if we take a passive stance, someone might get hurt. There may be some inexperienced poster out there who only sees Maple's bad advice and thinks it may be an ok thing to do. With posters like Freddy, gmedlo, you, and me, Maple's anecdotal advice looks extremely questionable. We have to keep going after this guy for the sake of our fellow posters.

 

[Slicendicer]

Netman-you are not really that ignorant to actually think that stretching does not help ameliorate injuries or prevent them in the first place because you would be categorically wrong. Stretching most definitely prevents injuries and is also a main component in the healing process. I have never stated that stretching categorically prevents soreness although it does help along with whirlpools, advil, massages, ect.

Netman-can you find some studies in the US versus Australia, LOL. I think I would take the advice of Pat Etchberry , who trains professional tennis players over some esoteric study that you happened to paste together! I am really not sure what point you are trying to make because your all over the place. Try to be in little more concise next time without any extraneous emotional babble-okay! Make sense?

How can anyone dispute this?

 

[maverick66]

Mav, if we take a passive stance, someone might get hurt. There may be some inexperienced poster out there who only sees Maple's bad advice and thinks it may be an ok thing to do. With posters like Freddy, gmedlo, you, and me, Maple's anecdotal advice looks extremely questionable. We have to keep going after this guy for the sake of our fellow posters.

its a giant waste of time. when we come back with more than i stretch and im god then people can make a good decision. i know hes getting annoying but if you ignore people like him they tend to go away.

 

[Japanese Maple]

Mav, if we take a passive stance, someone might get hurt. There may be some inexperienced poster out there who only sees Maple's bad advice and thinks it may be an ok thing to do. With posters like Freddy, gmedlo, you, and me, Maple's anecdotal advice looks extremely questionable. We have to keep going after this guy for the sake of our fellow posters.

Rickson-are you a rehab specialist with a degree in rehabilitative medicine? I didn't think so. Have you ever gone to a rehab specialist to get an injury healed? Maybe, most likely not. I have gone to a rehab specialist for a severe case of patella tendinitis brought on by a lot of basketball, in addition to practicing my serve a lot. Guess what, during my rehab, 3/wk, they started off with heat compresses, then ultrasound, then stretches, then strengthening exercises, then finally ice. Please don't tell me that it is not safe to mildly stretch, if appropriate for your type of injury, because that would be categorically incorrect-make sense. Also, please don't tell me that stretching does not help prevent injuries because it most definitely does-I initially got my "jumpers knee" because when I was younger, and naive, I didn't bother stretching my quad/patella tendon. Since my rehab, I have always stretched my quads and have had not had any problems with my patella tendon since.

Rickson, do yourself a favor and google "hamstring strain"-you will clearly see that all the rehab experts around the country clearly state that you should stretch your hamstring strain-if mild-early on to aid the healing process.

Perhaps after doing a little research you can stop spouting off about how my advice "is going to hurt someone". Please educate yourself before making false accusations okay-make sense!

 

[Japanese Maple]

when will you guys learn that arguing with japanese-maple is useless. no matter what you say he wont back down from his stance. hes gonna continue to give out wrong advice all you guys can due is give the poster who asked for the advice correct information about what to do and move on. let him believe hes right cause its pretty annoying everytime someone has an injury thread it turns into 5 pages of this guy telling everyone how he knows eevery fitness expert and they say stretch till the muscle rips off the bone.

Maverick66-exactly what wrong advice have I given out? I have a lot of experience competing and have received excellent advice from experts over the years on how to train and on how to prevent injuries/surgeries, and because of this advice, along with what I have read, I have a pretty good handle on how to best stay on the court competing on a high level-make sense?

 

[Japanese Maple]

How can anyone dispute this?

Slicendicer-please read my comments directed to Rickson-they apply to you too!
Maverick66-it wouldn't hurt you too to read my comments to Rickson also.

 

[Rickson]

Slicendicer-please read my comments directed to Rickson-they apply to you too!

Turning on dicer already?

 

[jmverdugo]

Just to put more info in to this discussion:

When to Stretch - Why Experts Recommend Athletes Stretch After Exercise

To Stretch or Not To Stretch - That is the Question!

To Stretch or Not to Stretch? The Answer Is Elastic

 

[Japanese Maple]

Interestingly, I just got back from the Pittsburgh beat down of Connecticut in a Big East basketball game, Pitt 70 UConn 60. Miraculously, against all the advice spouted on this board about the harm of static stretches before competition, what did I see on center court 15 minutes before the start of the game, Brad Wanamaker, Pitts guard getting assisted by a trainer doing static stretches for his hamstrings, back, and hip area. Can you imagine that , boy here I thought I was the only one who did some static stretches before competition, but to see the #3 team in the country in collegiate basketball do static stretches, I can't tell you how happy and proud I am and delighted that I was not doing anything wrong to hurt myself or possibly degrade my performance-imagine that!

 

[SaunderS]

I forgot to stretch today, and i had pain in my arms.

 

[WildVolley]

Rickson-are you a rehab specialist with a degree in rehabilitative medicine? I didn't think so. Have you ever gone to a rehab specialist to get an injury healed? Maybe, most likely not. I have gone to a rehab specialist for a severe case of patella tendinitis brought on by a lot of basketball, in addition to practicing my serve a lot. Guess what, during my rehab, 3/wk, they started off with heat compresses, then ultrasound, then stretches, then strengthening exercises, then finally ice.

Wait. I thought JM always argued that he never was injured because he always did static stretching before practice or competition? What's all this talk about rehab?:-?

Look, stretching, if performed properly and safely can be useful in training. On the other hand, static stretching before performance usually degrades performance and repeated studies suggest it has NO EFFECT on preventing injuries.

Most of us here advocate limited and careful static stretching AFTER training.

 

[Gmedlo]

Interestingly, I just got back from the Pittsburgh beat down of Connecticut in a Big East basketball game, Pitt 70 UConn 60. Miraculously, against all the advice spouted on this board about the harm of static stretches before competition, what did I see on center court 15 minutes before the start of the game, Brad Wanamaker, Pitts guard getting assisted by a trainer doing static stretches for his hamstrings, back, and hip area. Can you imagine that , boy here I thought I was the only one who did some static stretches before competition but to see the #3 team in the country in collegiate basketball do static stretches, I can't tell you how happy and proud I am and delighted that I was not doing anything wrong-imagine that!

And, your point is? I went to a UW v. minnesota tennis match yesterday and the only stretching they did was after the matches were done. Even this means nothing because you don't actually know what the stretching is doing; sure, those basketball teams are good at playing basketball, but we know for a fact that what they were doing degraded their performance and did nothing to prevent injuries.

 

[WildVolley]

JM doesn't seem to realize that the relevant issue isn't that athlete X is better than I am and he static stretches before a competition.

The relevant question is how would athlete X perform if he didn't static stretch before competition as compared to the times when he did static stretch before competition. That's why scientists have attempted to run studies comparing these two cases. The evidence does not support JM's contentions.

 

[Japanese Maple]

And, your point is? I went to a UW v. minnesota tennis match yesterday and the only stretching they did was after the matches were done. Even this means nothing because you don't actually know what the stretching is doing; sure, those basketball teams are good at playing basketball, but we know for a fact that what they were doing degraded their performance and did nothing to prevent injuries.

Gmeldo-University of Pittsburgh athletes have access to the finest sports trainers in the country and I can assure you that the athletes would not be doing static stretches before a game if it was going to compromise their performance-not going to happen!

 

[Japanese Maple]

Wait. I thought JM always argued that he never was injured because he always did static stretching before practice or competition? What's all this talk about rehab?:-?

Look, stretching, if performed properly and safely can be useful in training. On the other hand, static stretching before performance usually degrades performance and repeated studies suggest it has NO EFFECT on preventing injuries.

Most of us here advocate limited and careful static stretching AFTER training.

Wildvolley-LOL, I never said I never get injured, but when I do get a strain or pull from time to time its severity is lessened due to my stretching and most of the time I am injury free with no surgeries primarily due to my stretching, along with strength training, sports massages, whirlpools, ect. Also, before exercise I prefer to do a combination of static and dynamic stretches and not just static stretches alone. With as active as I am and being middle age, I am in excellent shape and have very little down time due to any kind of injury and never had any kind of surgery-I know what to do to stay on the court and I am consistent in doing it for the most part-stretching, strength training, speed/plyometrics, cardio, advil, ice, whirlpools, sports massages, foam stretching, ect.

When your as active as I am your bound to get some type of injury from time to time. Fortunately, for me it doesn't happen too often and when it does I know what to do to treat it in a timely manner.

 

[Japanese Maple]

Wait. I thought JM always argued that he never was injured because he always did static stretching before practice or competition? What's all this talk about rehab?:-?

Look, stretching, if performed properly and safely can be useful in training. On the other hand, static stretching before performance usually degrades performance and repeated studies suggest it has NO EFFECT on preventing injuries.

Most of us here advocate limited and careful static stretching AFTER training.

WildVolley-I couldn't disagree with you more about your claim that stretching does not prevent injuries. I can't tell you how many adult tennis players I come across who are always injured and have no clue on how to stretch properly and most of them don't even stretch at all and they wonder why they are always injured. Also, for me, every time I have had some type of injury, it has been directly linked to not stretching enough-every time, with the exception of when I got a mild MCL strain. The concept of stretching not preventing injuries or lessoning the severity of injuries is so ludicrous it is not even worth debating about-quite comical actually!

 

[Rickson]

Or perhaps the prematch stretching is what caused those injuries as opposed to not stretching enough. Something to think about?

 

[panta77]

I guess this tips can help someone.
http://www.segundosaque.com/video/183/Entrada+en+calor

 

[Rickson]

Why do Spaniards sound so different from South Americans?

 

[jmverdugo]

same thing as north americans and brittish people.

really good video btw, thanks for sharing.

 

[tomas9848]

but before a match i like to jump rope or jog. Stretching doesn't really get your blood flowing and get you pumped.

 

[Japanese Maple]

but before a match i like to jump rope or jog. Stretching doesn't really get your blood flowing and get you pumped.

Ideally you want to do both before playing, a dynamic warm up to break a light sweat(8-10 mins), followed by stretching-you really need both to be optimally prepared for a vigorous tennis match.

 

[cliff]

It is really important to warm the body up properly before any kind of exercise. Keep a track suit on and when you start sweating you know you are ready to stretch. The best kind of stretching to do before a match or training session is dynamic, here is a link to Steve Green' sdynamic stretching page at www.procomparetennis.net
http://www.procomparetennis.net/search/all/Dynamic flexibility
Check out his periodised plan for a good idea of how and when to stretch

 

[panta77]

I just guess that Martin Vasallos ATP fisio has enough knowledge to know what he is talking about, and these are some facts he talks about, he says that static stretching lowers muscles power by 25%, it's easier to get injured and that the connection between muscle and brain also is affected. I can not prove his statements, but I believe him, so, not static stretches right before "for me", at least.

 

[Rickson]

Good for you, panta! Static stretching before a workout or a match will make your muscles weaker.

 

[Japanese Maple]

I just guess that Martin Vasallos ATP fisio has enough knowledge to know what he is talking about, and these are some facts he talks about, he says that static stretching lowers muscles power by 25%, it's easier to get injured and that the connection between muscle and brain also is affected. I can not prove his statements, but I believe him, so, not static stretches right before "for me", at least.

Of course it is not ideal to do any kind of stretching right before a match given that you need time to warm your body up with some type of cardio then do whatever stretches are best for you , targeting especially troubled spots. Ideally, you want to be done 30-45 prior to stepping on the court, not right before! I prefer to do a combination of both static and dynamic stretches-this best prepares me for optimal movement and injury prevention. Interestly, this is the same approach many of your professional athletes follow and top college programs!