String as comfy as KB PL2 but with more spin and tension maintenance?

nintendoplayer

nintendoplayer

Semi-Pro
Hey guys,

after getting back into the game after 24 years with a past shoulder injury my current "shoulder pain is manageable" setup is the Head PT 2.0 with Kirschbaum Pro Line 2 1.15 18 gauge strung around 48lbs.
I also tried KB PL2 in 1.25mm but the 18 gauge 1.15mm version is the one that feels best in my Head PT2.0, probably because of the smaller head size and 18x20 string pattern.
And I like this string a lot, but it has 2 big downsides:

- tension drops very quickly and quite drastically. Basically, I can restring for every club match day / weekend tournament I play, because after one match-day (either 1singles / 1doubles match or 2 singles matches) the tension regularly has dropped between 4-6 pounds (I measure the tension of all rackets with the TennisTension app and a Gamma tension tester)

- with stiffer strings I can generate noticeably more top spin and play a lot more aggressively, which my hitting partners always confirm when I play with stiffer strings like SuperSmash or Solinco Hyper G


According to my current research I'm afraid there is no string on the market that would work better for me than KB PL2.


Some strings I tried the past months:

Kirschbaum Super Smash (1.23mm)
Actually one of my favourite strings when it comes to pure match performance. I can hit hard with lots of spin and really dictate the match with this string while stringing lower than KB PL2 (both 1.25 and 1.15mm version). But my shoulder always says "nope, you will not play any tennis for the next 2 weeks" after playing a match-day with SuperSmash :)

Kirschbaum Max Power Rough (1.25mm)
Comparable experience to Super Smash

Kirschbaum Pro Line Evolution (1.25mm)
Not as comfortable as KB PL2, also had to string this lower to make the pain manageable and it lost quite a bit of control compared to the KB PL2(both 1.15 and 1.25mm version). Power was very nice though, I could generate lots of power with this string compared to KB PL2.

Solinco Hyper G (1.15mm)
At least 1 week of shoulder-pain. I also strung this with lower tension than usually, but still unpleasant to use.

Solinco Confidential (1.15mm)
Ouch......feels quite comparable to SuperSmash.

Solinco Hyper G Soft (1.15mm)
This string disappointed me the most. The performance while playing was top-notch, I love the spin, even the feel / touch was great, control was nice. But this string hurt my shoulder even while I was playing. Normally I get shoulder pain 1 day after hitting, but with Hyper G Soft something felt wrong after about half an hour of hitting. And I don't understand why, cause according to the TTW string comparison tool, Hyper G Soft should be softer than KB PL2. I mean, the 16L gauge version is even softer than the KB PL2 18 gauge....so the 18 gauge Hyper G Soft should theoretically be much(!) softer than the KB PL2...?



brave-FGnt47-NIc-H.png


brave-dir-BRPTHn-O.png


But from my experience it is definitely stiffer than the KB PL2. I liked playing with that string a lot, but unfortunately my shoulder doesn't like it. A bit less pain than with the Super Smash, but still too much.

I also did a small experiment, wrapping the strings around my finger to see how soft each string is I tested the last time.

10-B3-BDA3-82-EA-4702-B929-48-FF684-D95-CE.jpg


From top to bottom: KB PL2 1.15, Hyper G Soft 1.15, Hyper G 1.15, Solinco Confidential 1.15

You can actually count the "curves" in each string that resulted from wrapping them around my finger.
KB PL2: 6 curves
Hyper G Soft: 5 curves
Hyper G: 3 curves
Confidential: 2 curves



Head Reflex MLT (1.25mm)
Have to string this with very high tension to get as much control as with the KB PL2 and then it doesn't really feel that comfortable anymore, access to spin also feels worse than with the KB PL2.

Head Velocity MLT (1.3mm)
Ouch. Have to string this quite high to get enough control and then I feel similar pain as with KB SuperSmash.





Do you know any other string I could try that is as comfy and controlled as KB PL2 but offers better tension maintenance and topspin?
 
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If you feel pain with a full bed of multi (like velocity you mentioned) then you should abandon the idea of searching any polyester string. In fact, I think you should consider trying some other racket because the head pt 2.0 is a very demanding frame; you have to swing very hard to make it work.
 
@nintendoplayer Have you tried, or thought of trying:
  • Solinco Tour Bite Soft Grey 115
  • Head Lynx Black 120
  • Diadem Flash 115
  • MSV Co-Focus Black 118
  • Genesis Hexonic 2.0 Black 118
  • Tecnifibre Razor Code Azur 120
In theory, based on testing results, all of these should give you increased tension maintenance / longevity with comparable or increased comfort.

If you were open to a lower RA Racquet, with similar specs, you could consider:
  • Wilson Blade 98 (18x20) v7 - 2019
  • Prince Synergy 98 - 2021
  • Head Gravity Pro Graphene 360+ - 2019
  • ProKennex Ki Q+Tour Pro (325g) - 2021
  • Yonex VCORE PRO 97D - 2021
 
Last edited:
Arzivu said:
If you feel pain with a full bed of multi (like velocity you mentioned) then you should abandon the idea of searching any polyester string. In fact, I think you should consider trying some other racket because the head pt 2.0 is a very demanding frame; you have to swing very hard to make it work.
Click to expand...

I understand your perspective and in theory you should be right. But I tested a lot(!) of rackets in the past few months and the Head PT 2.0 is the only frame right now that I can play with nearly pain-free (with KB PL2). And it probably comes down to the vibration dampening this frame offers me, with any other frame I had / felt more vibrations.

Rackets I tried in the past 1/2 year:

Head Gravity 360+ Pro
Head 360+ Prestige MP
Yonex VCore 97
Yonex VCore 100
Prince Phantom 93p
Prince Phantom 100x 305
Prince Phantom 100x 18x20
Prince Phantom 100x (290)
Dunlop CX200 Tour 18x20
Dunlop SX300 Lite
Babolat Pure Strike 18x20
Babolut Pure Strike 16x19
Babolat Pure Drive Lite
Head Prestige MP 2021
Head Speed Pro 2022
Head Speed Pro 360+
Wilson Clash 100
Wilson Clash 98
Wilson Pro Staff 97 V13
Pro Kennex Q+ Tour


And the Head PT so far is the only one I can play with regularly and almost pain-free. I feel the least vibrations with this racquet.
I also customized some of the above racquets with lead and silicone (93p, Gravity Pro, 100x 305, Clash 98) but that didn't give me such a good feeling as the Head PT 2.0.
That's why I'm currently playing with the Head PT 2.0 and trying to fine-tune it with the best strings for my needs.

Here you can see my playing style and how I hit with the Head PT2.0

www.veed.io

VIDEO-2022-11-08-10-12-39.mp4

www.veed.io www.veed.io
 
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Oh, these are certainly a lot of rackets and you did test the most arm saviors mentioned here (clash, phantoms, prokennex). In this list, I don't see any foam filled frames though. Try a Donnay or a Diadem if you can find. They can be beneficial to your shoulder. I saw the video, nice hitting, I like your technique. To get back to your first question, I would choose Tier One Ghostwire over the KB string, as it is more comfortable and retains its tension better. It even comes in 1.10 mm version.
 
T1 GW is a fantastic cross .... I am not too sure if I would use it in a full bed though.

Arzivu said:
Oh, these are certainly a lot of rackets and you did test the most arm saviors mentioned here (clash, phantoms, prokennex). In this list, I don't see any foam filled frames though. Try a Donnay or a Diadem if you can find. They can be beneficial to your shoulder. I saw the video, nice hitting, I like your technique. To get back to your first question, I would choose Tier One Ghostwire over the KB string, as it is more comfortable and retains its tension better. It even comes in 1.10 mm version.
Click to expand...
 
T1 GW cracked or deformed when I bend it all the way squeezed hard....it's how I test for soft strings ..hyper g soft at 1.15mm turned back into its normal shape...try that method...
 
@nintendoplayer - Not sure if your arm can handle them, but try MSV Focus Hex 1.18 and Solinco Revolution 1.15, two of the best options under 1.20 as far as spin, control, tension maintenance and reasonable comfort are concerned. Both will retain tension noticeably longer than KB PL II 1.15. Per RacketPedia, see the comparison to KB PL II 1.25 (they didn't have PL II 1.15 in the database). Because Control is significantly higher than PL II, you might be able to string both a few pounds lower, hopefully bringing the comfort into check, and getting even a bit more spin as a bonus. Click to enlarge:

rGvXh7c.png

​
If your arm can't handle them, then I would try Dunlop Silk Spin 17 mains and either IsoSpeed Cream 1.23 or MSV Swift 1.25 crosses, strung 5% lower than the mains. Silk Spin is a hexagonal multi that gets ridiculous spin, is fairly low-powered and very comfortable. I combine it with Cream/Swift so that snapback remains for the life of the string bed and it never locks. The hybrid forms a very nice gummy, pocketing, snappy, spinny string bed, which is pretty darn arm friendly.
 
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@Trip thanks for your racketpedia analysis.

If you read some user experiences, the Revolution sounds like a „crisp, stiff string“

Hyper G vs Revolution

Looking for a comparison between the two. Playing with hyperG 18g now, but like the idea of blue strings in my ultra tour. The revolutions look similar, what do they play like.
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com

Comfortable alternative to Solinco Revolution

Hey guys, I've been using Solinco Revolution 17 in my leaded up Ultra Tours for half a year now. Settled with 21x20kg tension. I like the playability and longevity of the setup quite a bit. Cut it out before 10h mark. I feel comfortable hitting off the ground all day long, but serving, and to...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com

About the Focus Hex: Would the Focus Hex Soft be the better choice?
 
Revolution in 1.15 may still be fairly workable. Focus Hex Soft is certainly an option, although tension maintenance won't be quite as good. Give it a shot as well, though!
 
Tested 2 new strings: Solinco Tourbite 1.10mm and MSV Focus Hex Plus 38 1.15mm. For the past few sessions the MSV Plus 38 has been my go-to string and so far it's worked out quite nicely. I also string it much lower than what I'm used to with my Kirschbaum PL2. While I had strung the KB PL2 between 46 and 52lbs indoors (we play on carpet with granulate) I now string the MSV as low as 36lbs. Going that low never really worked for me with KB PL2.
And although I'm slowly reaching "Mannarino-tension-range" here, it feels as if I can "brush and shape" the ball better with a shaped poly like the MSV and I Imagine that's why it works for me at such low tension.

The Tourbite felt too stiff at 44lbs, will try that one again at around 36lbs as well.

The T1 BK strings are a bit harder to get in german tennis stores that's why I haven't looked into that string, yet.
 
nintendoplayer said:
The T1 BK strings are a bit harder to get in german tennis stores that's why I haven't looked into that string, yet.
Click to expand...

You can order it on their European Website and is my goto string atm.
My Reel of BK is almost done so i have to reorder.
With arm issues i can recommend BK + T1 Ghostwire as crosses. Very good synergy between the two strings.
 
TennisJrDad said:
T1 GW is a fantastic cross .... I am not too sure if I would use it in a full bed though.
Click to expand...

Can you confirm your string bed? I have terrible results in an open pattern compared with any other cross string. It's very very slick and I hit a lot of flyers with GW.
 
Gosen Sidewinder is the answer you are looking for. I love KB PL2 for my ultra low tension setups (28/25) but at normal tensions Sidewinder is softer, spinnier and maintains tension better.
 
Be careful with TW data about stiffness, as it is measured after all the tension loss. And then take it also into account when using a string with less tension loss and string it looser. As an example, CyberFlash is seen as a soft string, but that's only because it has awful tension maintenance and you are really playing it at a much lower tension than reference one.

And if something like Velocity isn't comfortable enough, I'd definitely look elsewhere to find the problem. Be it technique or, if you say PT2.0 is comfortable, maybe you just need a heavy and stable enough racquet. Light racquets usually transmit more shock to the arm and tend to be stiffer to compensate for the lack of mass (mass -> power).
 
Fed_Ex said:
Be careful with TW data about stiffness, as it is measured after all the tension loss. And then take it also into account when using a string with less tension loss and string it looser. As an example, CyberFlash is seen as a soft string, but that's only because it has awful tension maintenance and you are really playing it at a much lower tension than reference one.

And if something like Velocity isn't comfortable enough, I'd definitely look elsewhere to find the problem. Be it technique or, if you say PT2.0 is comfortable, maybe you just need a heavy and stable enough racquet. Light racquets usually transmit more shock to the arm and tend to be stiffer to compensate for the lack of mass (mass -> power).
Click to expand...

For the record Cyber Flash is indeed a soft poly and one of the few poly strings my arm can tolerante. I does not have more tension loss than other polys, I have many meassurements with ERT 300 and played with CF for years.
 
Happi said:
For the record Cyber Flash is indeed a soft poly and one of the few poly strings my arm can tolerante. I does not have more tension loss than other polys, I have many meassurements with ERT 300 and played with CF for years.
Click to expand...

Sorry but numbers in multiple sources don’t say that, and my experience playing it neither does. I’m not saying cyber flash is a bad string, it is decent at almost everything, but it’s one of the worst in tension loss according to TWU sort of extreme method of measuring it and slightly below average in Racketpedia.

Also dynamic stiffness is about average, but static stiffness is decently high and the string has below average elasticity. Not an arm friendly string by any means if you play it fresh from the stringer. Yes, it does become comfortable after a hsrd hitting session but at the expense of the tension lost. You can’t ask for more at its price point.

But anyway, I was just trying to give an example of how TW shows stiffness ratings.
 
Sorry @Fed_Ex I simply have to disagree, CF has been my string for years and I have kept a spreadsheet with tension loss after each session, measured with ERT 300. In my measurements CF has above average tension maintenance in comparison to a lot of other polys that I tried over the years and measured too.

CF is soft for the arm but plays crisp like other alu strings, that might confuse some. CF is really a great string, and multiple sources will confirm that, just do a search here on TW forum.

Perhaps you have a sensitive arm towards the crispness of Alu strings, but I fully agree with the TWU numbers.
 
Happi said:
Sorry @Fed_Ex I simply have to disagree, CF has been my string for years and I have kept a spreadsheet with tension loss after each session, measured with ERT 300. In my measurements CF has above average tension maintenance in comparison to a lot of other polys that I tried over the years and measured too.

CF is soft for the arm but plays crisp like other alu strings, that might confuse some. CF is really a great string, and multiple sources will confirm that, just do a search here on TW forum.

Perhaps you have a sensitive arm towards the crispness of Alu strings, but I fully agree with the TWU numbers.
Click to expand...

Lol I am not saying that CF hurt me in any case or that it is a bad string, stop getting into defensive mode with your beloved string. For me CF has decent playability and average stiffness when fresh, not too stiff and not too soft. But in my experience, and for my game it was only playable for 1 hard hitting session because of tension loss.

Then, I am just saying that TW stiffness numbers are measured AFTER tension loss and they can be deceiving. And as an example, they list Cyberflash 17 with 159 stiffness, which is multi territory and softer that something like Luxilon Element, which is obviously not the case. But then you see that this stiffness number is measured after 55% tension loss vs. 15% and 33% for Velocity and Element, for example. If tension loss is really 55% or not is another question, but Cyberflash is clearly stiffer than what TW DB suggests when you take into account tension lost.

And CF has very few things in common with ALU Power but colour, totally diferent level of responsiveness, power, spin potential. Again, at a similar real tension.
 
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@Fed_Ex interesting I have also played Element and to me Element was stiffer than CF also had more tension loss. This is real life measurements and experience, not lab test. However I cut my strings after 4-5-6 hours so for long time tension maintainance I have no record. I really wanted to like Element as it looks so coon in my Angell TC95 copper version :) but did prefer CF.

Our discussion just once again confirms to me, that there is no way around testing strings for one self. So many times I purchased strings after recommendation's from this forum, just to find out I did not have the same opinion. I go for feel, and that is more difficult to translate to other players as it is very subjective. I really like a soft stringbed as I have a very sensitive arm.

I wonder if you would share the softest poly you have played, as I am always looking for new soft strings.
 
@Happi Have you ever tried Signum Pro Outbreak?

Happi said:
@Fed_Ex interesting I have also played Element and to me Element was stiffer than CF also had more tension loss. This is real life measurements and experience, not lab test. However I cut my strings after 4-5-6 hours so for long time tension maintainance I have no record. I really wanted to like Element as it looks so coon in my Angell TC95 copper version :) but did prefer CF.

Our discussion just once again confirms to me, that there is no way around testing strings for one self. So many times I purchased strings after recommendation's from this forum, just to find out I did not have the same opinion. I go for feel, and that is more difficult to translate to other players as it is very subjective. I really like a soft stringbed as I have a very sensitive arm.

I wonder if you would share the softest poly you have played, as I am always looking for new soft strings.
Click to expand...
 
Happi said:
@Fed_Ex interesting I have also played Element and to me Element was stiffer than CF also had more tension loss. This is real life measurements and experience, not lab test. However I cut my strings after 4-5-6 hours so for long time tension maintainance I have no record. I really wanted to like Element as it looks so coon in my Angell TC95 copper version :) but did prefer CF.

Our discussion just once again confirms to me, that there is no way around testing strings for one self. So many times I purchased strings after recommendation's from this forum, just to find out I did not have the same opinion. I go for feel, and that is more difficult to translate to other players as it is very subjective. I really like a soft stringbed as I have a very sensitive arm.

I wonder if you would share the softest poly you have played, as I am always looking for new soft strings.
Click to expand...

I agree there is no substitute for actual testing, but that again is where it gets tricky to have a clear picture. I have to string CF like 4-5 lbs higher than my regular 4G to get the same level of control, part of it due to the diference in stiffness and part due to tension loss. This or you buy an ERT300 and string with DT as a target.

And I think there is also some confusion about actual stifness and the dampening properties of the strings, and 4G is an example of that. It is very stiff and you feel it in the deadness and the lack of easy power, but is actually comfortable at high RHS.

I’m more of a soft racquet-stiff poly combination guy, but two soft polys I sort of like are Yonex PTP and Lux Element. For me, if you like softer stringbeds and your wallet can handle it there is no substitute for a good gut/poly hybrid though.
And it can last very long depending on your level and your style of play.
 
I skimmed the post and didn't see isospeed cream posted. I liked pro line ev over PLii because of color and it felt more playable to me. I'm mostly a round poly user and cream felt more comfortable and playable then the PL strings. Cost is about the same
 
Gut main poly cross around 52/48. Many combinations but I enjoyed klip gut and sppp as the cross. You can get much longer playability and it's softer than full bed poly.

If you go full bed poly then a soft one is TF black code. Strung in mid to high 40s. I get 8 to 10 hours of playability with that
 
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Ramjet said:
Gut main poly cross around 52/48. Many combinations but I enjoyed klip gut and sppp as the cross. You can get much longer playability and it's softer than full bed poly.

If you go full bed poly then a soft one is TF black code. Strung in mid to high 40s. I get 8 to 10 hours of playability with that
Click to expand...

TF black code is considered to be soft? Why is the Stiffnes rating at TW String database above 200?
 
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