string elasticity vs bendability?

#1
@Traffic @esgee48 @g4driver @Dartagnan64

Note: only a post about strings, not racquets or technique ;)

This is primarily a question for stringers:

Does how easy a string bends before stringing tend to match how stretchy/elastic a string is when stringing?

My origin/velocity broke the other day, and since winter is here I cut the strings out because probably won't have that racquet restrung until spring. I noticed I could bend the end of Velocity quite easily, but Origin was much stiffer. Both of these strings are in the same TW stiffness #s ballpark. I think my stringer has made the comment Origin is quite stretchy during stringing.

What is the TW stiffness # a measure of ... elasticity/stretchiness? bendability?

Gut stiffness is 100ish ... Velocity 150ish? ... but vs touch and tonic never felt that much more arm friendly than Velocity to me. HDX Tour about the same stiffness as Velocity ... zero arm twinge with Velocity, some after 6 hours with HDX Tour.

For my elbow at least, string stiffness isn't a sufficient predictor. Maybe if I strung my own racquets, string stretching during stringing would be the better predictor ... OR ... bending the tip of the string. :eek:
 
#2
I’m not sure about stiffness as a great indicator of arm safety. I did better with 4G than Alu Power. I think stiffness may be a different measure than resilience. Especially over time.

To me sustained resilience is what my arm likes.
 
#3
I’m not sure about stiffness as a great indicator of arm safety. I did better with 4G than Alu Power. I think stiffness may be a different measure than resilience. Especially over time.

To me sustained resilience is what my arm likes.
Good point ... I was thinking of stretchy and elastic as the same, but elastic is snapback (resilience). My initial thought is the stretch at contact is what offers the protection at contact ... and does that degrade until restringing.
 
#4
Good point ... I was thinking of stretchy and elastic as the same, but elastic is snapback (resilience). My initial thought is the stretch at contact is what offers the protection at contact ... and does that degrade until restringing.
Resilience is the ability to maintain that stretch over time. The fibres return to their native state more readily.

It’s also an important feature in your tendons.
 
#5
Resilience is the ability to maintain that stretch over time. The fibres return to their native state more readily.

It’s also an important feature in your tendons.
re·sil·ience
/rəˈzilyəns/
noun
  1. 1.
    the capacity to recover quickly from difficulties; toughness.
    "the often remarkable resilience of so many British institutions"
  2. 2.
    the ability of a substance or object to spring back into shape; elasticity.
    "nylon is excellent in wearability and resilience"


"It’s also an important feature in your tendons."

Yeah, I read interesting related observations/questions regarding TE and trying to stretch tendons and muscles. The thought was the body has the right length bones, muscles and tendons ... attached at the right locations ... why would you stretch a muscle or tendon trying to make it longer. If you think of muscles and tendons in particular as a rubberband, you don't want to stretch it longer. You want it to not degrade, and maintain it's quality stretch/snapback over time.

Maybe drinking water better for muscles and tendons than stretching. I have dropped static stretching before tennis and replaced with hamstring and calf foam rolling, forearm and tricep rolling, and dynamic stretching at the court. If you think of all of it as a rubberband, only the dynamic stretching and water make any kind of logical sense. :eek:

So ... strings ... I guess I will just stick with Velocity ... and try that fancy @Traffic gut/velocity when I feel the need for snob. :cool: I still assume I have doubles in my future ... and even though I didn't love gut, I did love it for volleys.
 
#6
I don't remember the last time I hit with a racquet that had kevlar strings on board, but that stuff is super bendy and flimsy string when handling it. Fortunately it's typically used as a main string and installed first, so not the same issue with blocked holes to worry about as with crosses.

The first time I strung a kevlar hybrid for somebody though, I was amazed with how my tensioner came to a full stop the instant that all the slack in a length of that kevlar ran out. No stretching, pretty much zero elasticity... yikes!! Compared with how "soft" it handles when it's not under tension, I can only assume that the resilience of this string is scary low.
 
#7
Yeah, I read interesting related observations/questions regarding TE and trying to stretch tendons and muscles. The thought was the body has the right length bones, muscles and tendons ... attached at the right locations ... why would you stretch a muscle or tendon trying to make it longer. If you think of muscles and tendons in particular as a rubberband, you don't want to stretch it longer. You want it to not degrade, and maintain it's quality stretch/snapback over time.
The idea behind stretching is that muscles and tendons tend to shorten over time and you are trying to maintain their initial length rather than extend them beyond their initial length.
There will be a modest protection from extending a muscle or tendon to a longer length in that it will take more stretch before you tear the fibres, but that is countered by increased laxity around the joint and an increased potential for ligament injuries.
 
#8
I don't remember the last time I hit with a racquet that had kevlar strings on board, but that stuff is super bendy and flimsy string when handling it. Fortunately it's typically used as a main string and installed first, so not the same issue with blocked holes to worry about as with crosses.

The first time I strung a kevlar hybrid for somebody though, I was amazed with how my tensioner came to a full stop the instant that all the slack in a length of that kevlar ran out. No stretching, pretty much zero elasticity... yikes!! Compared with how "soft" it handles when it's not under tension, I can only assume that the resilience of this string is scary low.
lol ... Fuzz you cracked me up, thx. :p We have to look no further than a chain with links ... it bends just fine. OK ... can't go with the "bendability" test.
 
#9
The idea behind stretching is that muscles and tendons tend to shorten over time and you are trying to maintain their initial length rather than extend them beyond their initial length.
There will be a modest protection from extending a muscle or tendon to a longer length in that it will take more stretch before you tear the fibres, but that is countered by increased laxity around the joint and an increased potential for ligament injuries.
"The idea behind stretching is that muscles and tendons tend to shorten over time"

Yeah ... but that is to match our lost height over time. :p
 
#11
Resilience is the ability to maintain that stretch over time. The fibres return to their native state more readily.

It’s also an important feature in your tendons.
Then by that definition, I believe that gut is more resilient than Velocity.
When I string Velocity it stretches a ridiculous amount (more than gut) but it doesn’t return to the same state like natural gut does.

I notice this more so with poly strung at higher tensions. When I lower the weight on my stringer it just continues to stretch. Occasionally I have to readjust the gripper and the poly doesn’t seem to spring back. Velocity springs back better than poly but gut springs back far more in my experience.

Like our tendons, nature seems to have it figured out
 
#12
Then by that definition, I believe that gut is more resilient than Velocity.
When I string Velocity it stretches a ridiculous amount (more than gut) but it doesn’t return to the same state like natural gut does.

I notice this more so with poly strung at higher tensions. When I lower the weight on my stringer it just continues to stretch. Occasionally I have to readjust the gripper and the poly doesn’t seem to spring back. Velocity springs back better than poly but gut springs back far more in my experience.

Like our tendons, nature seems to have it figured out
My tendons use to be like natural gut. Now they are like 4G.
 
#14
@Traffic @esgee48 @g4driver @Dartagnan64

Note: only a post about strings, not racquets or technique ;)

This is primarily a question for stringers:

Does how easy a string bends before stringing tend to match how stretchy/elastic a string is when stringing?

My origin/velocity broke the other day, and since winter is here I cut the strings out because probably won't have that racquet restrung until spring. I noticed I could bend the end of Velocity quite easily, but Origin was much stiffer. Both of these strings are in the same TW stiffness #s ballpark. I think my stringer has made the comment Origin is quite stretchy during stringing.

What is the TW stiffness # a measure of ... elasticity/stretchiness? bendability?

Gut stiffness is 100ish ... Velocity 150ish? ... but vs touch and tonic never felt that much more arm friendly than Velocity to me. HDX Tour about the same stiffness as Velocity ... zero arm twinge with Velocity, some after 6 hours with HDX Tour.

For my elbow at least, string stiffness isn't a sufficient predictor. Maybe if I strung my own racquets, string stretching during stringing would be the better predictor ... OR ... bending the tip of the string. :eek:
Sorry I've been MIA. Was in Orlando for JR JTT Nationals. Just got back. What a weekend. Definitely a must for any tennis serious tennis player to experience.

Anyway, to answer your question. Nat gut doesn't bend very easily. Velocity bends very easily. Gut kinks easily. Velocity doesn't kink easily. If you were to just feel the strings right out of the package, gut behaves more like poly than a multi. Heck, Sgut bends easy as well. Zyex doesn't bend easily, but kinks easily.

Gut and Zyex both hit very "bright" (let's call that opposite of muted). And so does Sgut. I think multi's tend to be a little more muted? Same with poly.

So there is SOME correlation with how easy it is to bend the string equating to "less stiff" hitting. But not necessarily the best indicator.
 
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