String science, hybrid effects and doubts.

[Rudi Bergner]

Hi,
I’m a bit confused about string properties because I’m trying to make a hybrid bed for myself.
So I was checking strings and their specifications trying to achieve a softer feel and more pocketing on my playabilty.
I use full bed of Hyper G with 23kg full bed but recently 23kg main/ 22kg cross improved the feel and comfort a little.

I started to base my search on Federer´s “formula” (gut mains 27kg/ allu power rough 25.5kg cross).

1 - So here begins my “paradox”, the all power rough is a polly, a litle stiff but rounded so it gives a nice sliding effect for the main strings to give that “snapback effect” (that helps generating spin).
but the gut in the mains is rated very low on spin, on the other hand, its a low stiff string and with a lot of control and feel.

I would question why Federer won’t use a more rated spin string on mains, but usually (according to my research)
spin friendly stiffer strings don’t have that snapback effect like a gut or a softer string that makes more snapback.

So, I guess Federer finds comfort and feel from the gut and stability from the all power on crosses, as he doesn’t need a spin string because he can create his own! That’s what I get of this.

2 - but, trying to find a hybrid for comfort and spin on the internet, people say that you should put the softer and comfortable string on crosses and a poly for spin on mains. And that’s a little the opposite regarding Federer´s combination right?
Because I was thinking on putting HYPER G 16L cross with POLYFIBRE HIGHTEC 17 (a string that I found to be softer and good for pocketing, feel) on mains, tying to achieve a fairly cheap look a like Federer string bed.

Correct me if im wrong, because that’s my purpose with this thread:

• Combination 1: hyper g (22kg) cross/ polyfibre hightec (23kg) mains
  
  with this I would expect the hyper g on cross to give me stability and depht on flat strokes and service returns, and power on flat serves.
  Because the polyfibre in mains isn’t as alive as hyper g but has more snapback, I would think that would be a good mix to achieve a similar effect to what Federer uses, since the softer string in mains is more flexible and would give me more control and the hyper g on crosses would help a little with stability.
  
  - Combination 2: polyfibre hightec cross/ hyper g mains
• 
  . This is what makes sense for the internet experts I found…
  so, its confusing, because with this combination you expect to get crispy bite feel of the hyper g on the mains and will create a good amount of spin but at the same time its a stiff string so probably hasn’t so much snapback capability am I correct?? (Maybe im wrong I don’t know, the more you research, the more it seems more confuse) but the string is shaped so it will bite the ball so even if you will sacrifice pocketing and control it will spin anyway.
  So you use the softer poly on the crosses and it will give you a softer feel and a bit mor conforto and pocketing to compensate the nervous string on mains.
  
  CONCLUSION
  
  At the end I guess both combinations are valide, one gives more feel and control and the other gives more free spin but less control and feel. (Even if science physics and all the spec numbers are one thing but the actual result maybe isn’t that different as I would imagine I guess)
  
  So, what is valid for this 2 combinations? Regarding stiffness, power, shape, friction and spin potential…
  
  Would like to ear a more clear scientific statement on this.
  
  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

 

[Shroud]

Hi,
I’m a bit confused about string properties because I’m trying to make a hybrid bed for myself.
So I was checking strings and their specifications trying to achieve a softer feel and more pocketing on my playabilty.
I use full bed of Hyper G with 23kg full bed but recently 23kg main/ 22kg cross improved the feel and comfort a little.

I started to base my search on Federer´s “formula” (gut mains 27kg/ allu power rough 25.5kg cross).

1 - So here begins my “paradox”, the all power rough is a polly, a litle stiff but rounded so it gives a nice sliding effect for the main strings to give that “snapback effect” (that helps generating spin).
but the gut in the mains is rated very low on spin, on the other hand, its a low stiff string and with a lot of control and feel.

I would question why Federer won’t use a more rated spin string on mains, but usually (according to my research)
spin friendly stiffer strings don’t have that snapback effect like a gut or a softer string that makes more snapback.

So, I guess Federer finds comfort and feel from the gut and stability from the all power on crosses, as he doesn’t need a spin string because he can create his own! That’s what I get of this.

2 - but, trying to find a hybrid for comfort and spin on the internet, people say that you should put the softer and comfortable string on crosses and a poly for spin on mains. And that’s a little the opposite regarding Federer´s combination right?
Because I was thinking on putting HYPER G 16L cross with POLYFIBRE HIGHTEC 17 (a string that I found to be softer and good for pocketing, feel) on mains, tying to achieve a fairly cheap look a like Federer string bed.

Correct me if im wrong, because that’s my purpose with this thread:

• Combination 1: hyper g (22kg) cross/ polyfibre hightec (23kg) mains
  
  with this I would expect the hyper g on cross to give me stability and depht on flat strokes and service returns, and power on flat serves.
  Because the polyfibre in mains isn’t as alive as hyper g but has more snapback, I would think that would be a good mix to achieve a similar effect to what Federer uses, since the softer string in mains is more flexible and would give me more control and the hyper g on crosses would help a little with stability.
  
  - Combination 2: polyfibre hightec cross/ hyper g mains
• 
  . This is what makes sense for the internet experts I found…
  so, its confusing, because with this combination you expect to get crispy bite feel of the hyper g on the mains and will create a good amount of spin but at the same time its a stiff string so probably hasn’t so much snapback capability am I correct?? (Maybe im wrong I don’t know, the more you research, the more it seems more confuse) but the string is shaped so it will bite the ball so even if you will sacrifice pocketing and control it will spin anyway.
  So you use the softer poly on the crosses and it will give you a softer feel and a bit mor conforto and pocketing to compensate the nervous string on mains.
  
  CONCLUSION
  
  At the end I guess both combinations are valide, one gives more feel and control and the other gives more free spin but less control and feel. (Even if science physics and all the spec numbers are one thing but the actual result maybe isn’t that different as I would imagine I guess)
  
  So, what is valid for this 2 combinations? Regarding stiffness, power, shape, friction and spin potential…
  
  Would like to ear a more clear scientific statement on this.
  
  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Crosses have way more to do with snapback than mains. You can take any main and pair it with a locked cross like syngut or gut or multi, and little if any snapback. But if you have a smooth some what stiffer string like most polys you can get a lot of snapback. Gut/gut is not spinny at all. But gut/ poly is one of the spinniest combos because the lack of friction on the poly cross.

That stuff about the poly in the mains and syngut or multi in the crosses for spin is just bogus. At least in terms of snapback. SUre you can get a lot of spin from any stringbed but if you have the technique for it you can get more with a poly cross or a cross like monogut zx.

Here is a vid I did about it:

The only nervous strings are the ones in @J011yroger s racquets.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

Crosses have way more to do with snapback than mains. You can take any main and pair it with a locked cross like syngut or gut or multi, and little if any snapback. But if you have a smooth some what stiffer string like most polys you can get a lot of snapback. Gut/gut is not spinny at all. But gut/ poly is one of the spinniest combos because the lack of friction on the poly cross.

That stuff about the poly in the mains and syngut or multi in the crosses for spin is just bogus. At least in terms of snapback. SUre you can get a lot of spin from any stringbed but if you have the technique for it you can get more with a poly cross or a cross like monogut zx.

Here is a vid I did about it:

The only nervous strings are the ones in @J011yroger s racquets.

Makes sense, thank you.

so In this case... hyper g isn’t the most rounded string and doesn’t slide that much.
I would get more SnapBack effect with the polyfibre as crosses, (since it’s a pretty round string and slimes well I think) and the hyper g mains. Correct?

since this polyfibre isn’t that stiff for a poly and doesn’t hold tension that well I guess (from what I heard from you), that it isn’t as good as allu power rough right?

So, is polyfibre any good for an hybrid? Trying to build a good SnapBack effect string bed?

What is confusing to me is that hyper g is rated as a spinning string but it doesn’t slide that well... but it spins well because of the bite it gives to the ball due to its shape.

so let me me see if I understand...
A synthetic gut mains with allu power Rough cross will be a good option for feel and spin if I can generate my own spin.
And for example the same allu power rough cross with hyper g main will be like a spinning beast combination ?

what’s your opinion on this polyfibre hightec string on an hybrid?
Is it any good on crosses or mains trying to achieve a good SnapBack effect or is there better option?
I’m referring this polyfibre string because I heard it’s round and soft wich makes it good for sliding and gives a good pocketing.

thanks and sorry if I’m trying to complicate it ahah..

 

[BBender716]

Makes sense, thank you.

so In this case... hyper g isn’t the most rounded string and doesn’t slide that much.
I would get more SnapBack effect with the polyfibre as crosses, (since it’s a pretty round string and slimes well I think) and the hyper g mains. Correct?

since this polyfibre isn’t that stiff for a poly and doesn’t hold tension that well I guess (from what I heard from you), that it isn’t as good as allu power rough right?

So, is polyfibre any good for an hybrid? Trying to build a good SnapBack effect string bed?

What is confusing to me is that hyper g is rated as a spinning string but it doesn’t slide that well... but it spins well because of the bite it gives to the ball due to its shape.

so let me me see if I understand...
A synthetic gut mains with allu power Rough cross will be a good option for feel and spin if I can generate my own spin.
And for example the same allu power rough cross with hyper g main will be like a spinning beast combination ?

what’s your opinion on this polyfibre hightec string on an hybrid?
Is it any good on crosses or mains trying to achieve a good SnapBack effect or is there better option?
I’m referring this polyfibre string because I heard it’s round and soft wich makes it good for sliding and gives a good pocketing.

thanks and sorry if I’m trying to complicate it ahah..

The typical hybrid setup is gut mains, poly crosses. Gut strung higher due to initial tension loss, cross string of typically a string rated high in tension maintenance (so the poly doesn't lose tension too much faster than the gut), round (so it doesn't slice into the gut/fray), and "slick" (to promote snapback effect with minimal friction).

Not saying there aren't other philosophies but this is the in a nutshell version of the typical gut/poly hybrid.


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Dartagnan64]

The typical hybrid setup is gut mains, poly crosses. Gut strung higher due to initial tension loss, cross string of typically a string rated high in tension maintenance (so the poly doesn't lose tension too much faster than the gut), round (so it doesn't slice into the gut/fray), and "slick" (to promote snapback effect with minimal friction).

Not saying there aren't other philosophies but this is the in a nutshell version of the typical gut/poly hybrid.


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

This is my thinking on the subject.

If spin is what you want the number one hybrid is a shaped or textured thin gauge poly main and a smooth round thin gauge poly cross. At low tensions. In an open string pattern frame.
Next best hybrid for spin is a gut main with a smooth poly cross.

Basically you want the mains to grab the ball and the crosses to allow the mains to move.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

This is my thinking on the subject.

If spin is what you want the number one hybrid is a shaped or textured thin gauge poly main and a smooth round thin gauge poly cross. At low tensions. In an open string pattern frame.
Next best hybrid for spin is a gut main with a smooth poly cross.

Basically you want the mains to grab the ball and the crosses to allow the mains to move.

Yes thank you. that’s what I’ve been learning. ( never payed atentivos to de details of stringing and always played with full bed poly.)

so following that logic.
i don’t have budget to use gut, since I play almost everyday.
I’m trying to find a nice low price combo between performance and price.

I find two strings that people rated good although they are low priced: polyfibre hightec and gosen og sheep micro.

would any of these work well with hyper g in mains?
My guess is that the polyfibre would be a good cross allowing hyper g to move and snap while it gives more comfort (being a less stiff poly) and nice pocketing from what I’ve heard.
Seems a nice hybrid in theory for me!

The gosen I think it would be good in crosses with hyper g in mains only for more confort.

but trying to emulate gut/poly, maybe the polyfibre crosses with the gosen main, would play similar?
Very different I believe but a smooth SnapBack feel if well strung.
Usually you string the crosses with less 1 or 2kg right?

 

[Wacos]

If u like straight Hybrid, u can use head velocity black (not white) in the crosses.
They are a very slippery multi: nice control, comfort, a good amount of snapback at a very good price.

Go for a round spin friendly poly for the mains to minimize friction with the crosses.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

If u like straight Hybrid, u can use head velocity black (not white) in the crosses.
They are a very slippery multi: nice control, comfort, a good amount of snapback at a very good price.

Go for a round spin friendly poly for the mains to minimize friction with the crosses.

And regarding tensions?

multi is softer and has less bite to the ball, but it pockets more than poly.

So imagine I’m stringing a poly in mains with 22kg. The head velocity in crosses with less tension will allow the ball to enter the string bed letting the main SnapBack and bite the ball with low effort. ( I think)

but if you string the head velocity with higher tension than the mains, I guess the ball will Enter the string bed aswell because it’s a softer string letting the the mains SnapBack aswell but this time with more control from the high tensioned HV in the crosses.

is this correct?

I think I’ll try with hyper g and gosen micro to do some experiences.
one racket with gosen mains and the other gosen crosses. I’ll have to figure out the tensions in each combination.

 

[Wacos]

Normally, when the poly is stiffer than the multi, u need to string the multi higher than the poly at least 1 kg (2 lbs) just to have a consistent string bed, so u can go 22 mains, 23 crosses. But If you use a softer poly like head lynx, u can string them at the same tension.
In theory, the less tension u put in the crosses, the higher the launch angle will be, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve with your topspin.

In a reverse hybrid, since the poly are there to tame the power of the multi and the crosses are much shorter, u can go even lower with the tension of the poly.

U can even try with a shaped stiff poly in the mains, and a soft poly in the crosses: less comfort than using multi but more durable.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

Normally, when the poly is stiffer than the multi, u need to string the multi higher than the poly at least 1 kg (2 lbs) just to have a consistent string bed, so u can go 22 mains, 23 crosses. But If you use a softer poly like head lynx, u can string them at the same tension.
In theory, the less tension u put in the crosses, the higher the launch angle will be, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve with your topspin.

In a reverse hybrid, since the poly are there to tame the power of the multi and the crosses are much shorter, u can go even lower with the tension of the poly.

U can even try with a shaped stiff poly in the mains, and a soft poly in the crosses: less comfort than using multi but more durable.

I’ve seen polyfibre poly hightec.... seems to be. A powerful string. Not too stiff and rounded to allow sliding of the mains.
Power and pocketing while letting the mains bite and snap the ball.

would it be nice in crosses with hyper g in mains?
I’m guessing the tension should be less in the polyfibre or maybe the same because it’s a softer string and loses more tension comparing to hyper g... maybe the same tension would give a nice balanced string bed?

 

[USPTARF97]

Have played a few different setups with poly mains and polyfibre crosses. My thought was the polyfibre would soften up the string bed which it did but it stretches out so fast that there is a minimal amount of good playing time.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

Have played a few different setups with poly mains and polyfibre crosses. My thought was the polyfibre would soften up the string bed which it did but it stretches out so fast that there is a minimal amount of good playing time.

How many hours of good play?
Maybe it has to be pre stretched?

 

[USPTARF97]

How many hours of good play?
Maybe it has to be pre stretched?

2-3hrs, tried pre-stretch on a machine. Just made the string bed feel stiff and defeated the purpose of putting the soft poly in the cross.

 

[Rudi Bergner]

Have played a few different setups with poly mains and polyfibre crosses. My thought was the polyfibre would soften up the string bed which it did but it stretches out so fast that there is a minimal amount of good playing time.

They say Polyfibre hightec should be stringed with a little bit more tension than the usual poly. What tensions did you try?

 

[USPTARF97]

They say Polyfibre hightec should be stringed with a little bit more tension than the usual poly. What tensions did you try?

I went up 4lbs on the crosses.

 

[Kevo]

I tried a few of the polyfibre strings and they reminded me of big banger in terms of longevity, but worse. At first it feels good like you would expect based on initial review, but after a hitting session or two it loses it's initial feel. With big banger it kind of stays steady after the initial feel is gone so you can still play with it fairly well. Polyfibre seems to keep on losing tension every time you hit with it. I'm honestly surprised they still sell it, but I guess it's just because so many people either can't tell what's happening with their strings or just don't care or pay attention.

I contrast that with my current string which seems to play basically the same from the time I pull it out of the bag until it breaks. I usually have multiple racquets strung, so they sit in the bag for a couple of weeks or more after stringing before I hit with them. That time allows most of the initial tension loss to settle out before I ever play with it.

I just broke a string on a hard serve return yesterday and pulled the spare out of the bag and could hardly tell it was different other than the edges of the strings were a bit sharper. I am using Weiss Cannon Ultra Cable currently, but there are quite a few polys I've tried over the years that I have played that work this way as well. I like to get my money's worth out of a string.