***Stringway Machine Users Club***

[Technatic]

But it makes more sense to the (not Dutch) readers if you make a nice table/graph showing what your settings are, and the results.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding. This note does not mean anything more than sharing a little internal information concerning this new development with those who are interested.


Our prime activity at the moment is the production of the first series of these machines. And a complete new product with so many parts needs a lot of attention for many details.

To make graphs of internal tests has no urgency at all.

 

[Technatic]

Just some pictures of the LW machine in the case and how it is fixed in the case.
We start shipping orders in about 2 weeks.

 

[MAX PLY]

Nice. What are the dimensions of the case?

 

[Technatic]

"Hand luggage" dimensions 55 x 35 x 20 cm

 

[fireandwind]

"maybe you should work-out a bit. Most people have stronger leg-muscles as arm-muscles"

Really ?

• I go to gym 3-4 times a week during winter time, summer times a bit less
• I stretch 5 times a week for more than an hour
• I ride bike 15-50 km almost every day, also during winter time
• Depending on the winter I do cross country skiing 500 - 1000 km a year , sometimes more than 60 km a day
• I play tennis several times a week, during summer time sometimes for more 3 hours in a row (singles)
• I play 30-40 rounds of golf a summer with heavy carry on bag in a hilly course
• A few years back I played 2 hour tennis in the morning (singles) followed by a full round of golf and then played tennis (doubles) for 2 hours in the afternoon/evening, used my bike to go to tennis courts, 3 km one way
• I have gone to mountains( Alps, Dolomites and Rocky Mountains) for skiing 12 years in a row and doing off piste, powder and mogul skiing, besides that I used to go often to local hills here in Finland
• A few years back I in a fitness test with a bike ergometer my fitness level would have been excellent for an 18 year old, I was 50 at that time
• I used to go jogging in the mornings several time a week but due to my knees I do not do that any more.
• I still fit in the clothes I was wearing 30 years ago

What kind of work-out you recommend I should do ?

what a wonderful life you are having. You must be retired or have lots of money and don't need to go to work.

 

[Technatic]

Hereby some more picture from the production

The constant pull “drive system”.

Assembled parts.

The handle can be rotated for transport

 

[Technatic]

We are assembling the production units hereby some pictures

 

[MathieuR]

↑beauty↑

 

[onehandbh]

Everything looks fantastic to me except...

while the luggage may be within checkin dimensions, the contents being metal may not be allowed by the airlines/airports

 

[Technatic]

Everything looks fantastic to me except...

while the luggage may be within checkin dimensions, the contents being metal may not be allowed by the airlines/airports

I do not know about airport rules but I do know that we can not make a fully plastic stringing machine.
Perhaps you must just check it in instead of handlugage.

I assume nobody is going to string during the flight.

 

[scf]

I assume nobody is going to string during the flight.

Could be a nice way to spend the air time

 

[onehandbh]

What is the total weight of the case including the stringing machine?

 

[letplaytennis]

Is there a link to your site that you could provide? Pictures not loading for me.

 

[Technatic]

Is there a link to your site that you could provide? Pictures not loading for me.

I am afraid that that is not allowed on this forum for suppliers.
Send me a pm and I will be glad to help you.

What is the total weight of the case including the stringing machine?

The machine including flying clamps weighs 7,36 kg
The case with the mounting plate 3.75 kg

 

[Technatic]

Just some pictures from the production

The turntable and main frame are assembled in a rotatable mounting tool which can be locked in different angles

The 4 nuts to fix the brackets for the tensioner are delivered at the right place inside the frame with this “wagon”.

Every machine is checked on many points

 

[Technatic]

We sent out the first 34 Light weight machines.

And it is of course exciting after such a long development period what the users find of a new product.

The fastest guy to response was the big motivator behind this project, who is well known on this forum Jaeceeparis. He works a lot with French pros and motivates them to string their own racquets.

I love the machine, easy to set-up and easy to use, . . .

BRAVO

Of course we hope that others will be as happy as John with their new machine.

 

[Technatic]

The first 20 + machines are in use for more than a week so it was important to hear the comments of users.

The general feeling was very good only some questions and remarks:

- The use of the fast clamp racquet support was not completely clear. The little nut is only used to adjust and not to tighten, that is done by switching the lever.

- It is better to clamp the lever with a normal Alan bolt with an Alan Key instead of with the little wheel. We will adjust this and add the Alan key to remaining orders that we have to ship. This key can also be used to rotate the knob on the Tension handle away for transport.

- Stringers have to become confident with the racquet support. The direct system at the head is about the same as Ektelon and Prince used for a long time with 2 supports at 66 mm distance. We tested the system at 72 lbs without any problem.

This is the link to the manual with more information.

http://www.stringway-nl.com/pdf/Manuals ENG/MS140-MANUAL.pdf

 

[Technatic]

Major “innovations” in “Stringing-machine-thinking” could be:

- A good stringing machine does not need to be heavy for best possible functioning as long as all the forces work in the right directions on the parts.

- A spring is a much more durable and reliable constant pull drive system than complicated and expensive electronic systems.

- A simple direct racquet support with a screw which supplies the reaction force for the forces of all the main strings may be better than indirect supports with “friction mounted” towers.

- The discussion about fixed or flying clamps for best results will never end.

John Elliot proves that the highest consistency and accuracy can be obtained with flying clamps with all the string jobs that he does for French pros.

 

[Karma Tennis]

- A spring is a much more durable and reliable constant pull drive system than complicated and expensive electronic systems.

@Technatic, one thing I have never seen discussed in the forums - but perhaps has been and I have missed it - is the impact of changing climatic conditions on the spring(s) in the Stringway machines.

I live in an area where the climatic conditions change quite significantly over the course of the year from 0 Degrees C in Winter to 45 Degrees C in Summer. We also see huge variations in humidity levels anywhere from 5% up to 100%. Of course we don't string our racquets at these extremes.

Do you think the springs in your CP spring machines, or in any of the different Crank Lockout systems that use springs are affected significantly by climatic changes? I can't imagine that electronic systems would be affected too much if at all.

 

[Technatic]

@ Karma Tennis,

IMO, when the comparison must be made between electronic machines and “spring driven” machines in extreme conditions, the spring has a huge advantage.

Spring steel still has to function well in very difficult conditions, think of all the springs in the engine of your car so near to the combustion, like valve- and piston- springs. These springs make a huge number of movements without getting weaker.

Electronic components like semi conductors and resistors are very sensitive for temperature changes.

Most electronic force transducers, in scales and stringing machines are still strain gauges built with resistors which change in value when they are stretched.

These systems need special temperature compensation when they have to work at higher temperartures.

 

[onehandbh]

@ Karma Tennis,

IMO, when the comparison must be made between electronic machines and “spring driven” machines in extreme conditions, the spring has a huge advantage.

Spring steel still has to function well in very difficult conditions, think of all the springs in the engine of your car so near to the combustion, like valve- and piston- springs. These springs make a huge number of movements without getting weaker.

Electronic components like semi conductors and resistors are very sensitive for temperature changes.

Most electronic force transducers, in scales and stringing machines are still strain gauges built with resistors which change in value when they are stretched.

These systems need special temperature compensation when they have to work at higher temperartures.

Also the materials used in steel or alloy springs typically need VERY extreme temperatures to have a noticeable impact. We're talking about temperatures where a human would not survive.

 

[Karma Tennis]

Also the materials used in steel or alloy springs typically need VERY extreme temperatures to have a noticeable impact. We're talking about temperatures where a human would not survive.

But the properties of metal springs change as they are stretched aren't they? Springs do wear out over time and use. Otherwise we would never need to replace them. As springs wear out, wouldn't climatic changes have subtle effects on the spring? I guess, the question is whether the effect would be too small to megatively impact on string tensioning. And I guess we do have String Calibration processes to keep on top of any changes.

 

[onehandbh]

But the properties of metal springs change as they are stretched aren't they? Springs do wear out over time and use. Otherwise we would never need to replace them. As springs wear out, wouldn't climatic changes have subtle effects on the spring? I guess, the question is whether the effect would be too small to megatively impact on string tensioning. And I guess we do have String Calibration processes to keep on top of any changes.

Temperature does have an effect but the range of temperature within living conditions for humans on earth would have negligable effect.

Now if the spring was made of water or some other materal that has a much lower melting point then yes, it would be noticeable.

 

[Technatic]

But the properties of metal springs change as they are stretched aren't they? Springs do wear out over time and use. And I guess we do have String Calibration processes to keep on top of any changes.

The loss of tension in a spring depends on the number of movements and the maximum stress in the spring material.

The “trick” with our Spring driven machines is that the springs are “over dimensioned” so that the stress in the material remains far below the stress that is allowed maximum allowed.

That this principles works is proven by our foot operated machines:

We build these machines since 1992, and there are machines from that year still working without ever replacing the spring.

We sell the MS200 to a sport shop chain on the Philipines for over 10 years, these machines are really abused day in day out.

They have to replace parts which are never ordered for other old machines, but I can not remember replacing one spring.

The more we worked with springs the more we learned that springs are fantastic: cheap, simple, reliable and very accurate.

But of course:

Every designer has his preferences which he likes to trust and to use most.

 

[Technatic]

Racquet-stress-deflection-mounting-tensions

I had a discussion with 2 Stringway users about different matters, but about the same subjects. This discussion proved that there are quite some misunderstandings:

- About the deflection of a racquet before and after stringing.

- About the difference for the racquet between direct and indirect racquet support on stringing machine.

- About the difference between stress and deflection.

Because the stress in a racquet is a major matter for stringers I made a document about this matters which you can download with this link:

http://www.stringway-nl.com/pdf/Racquet-stress-deflection-tensions.pdf
I hope it is useful for you.

 

[Karma Tennis]

Racquet-stress-deflection-mounting-tensions

Thank you for the very interesting information.

How does all of this change when Load Spreaders are used at the 12 oclock position?

Is the stress on a racquet really much of an issue in situations where racquets are being replaced on a frequent basis? Say every 150 hours of use?

 

[Technatic]

How does all of this change when Load Spreaders are used at the 12 oclock position?

IMO The worst thing of indirect supports is the very narrow support at 12 oclock. Many racquets which come off such a support show damage because of the huge pressure between the support and the inside of the racquet.

If the old fashioned banana would be used, like in the old Ektelon, it would give a big improvement.

So Load Spreaders are certainly better because theylower the pressure and if they are stiff enough they provide some direct support.

Is the stress on a racquet really much of an issue in situations where racquets are being replaced on a frequent basis? Say every 150 hours of use?

The stress in the racquet is very high but the lucky thing nowadays is that they are really very strong and the stringing tensions are much lower.

However a perfect stringer should minimize remaining stress after stringing, which means that the Length and width of the string area are the same after stringing as they were before without strings.

 

[Karma Tennis]

IMO The worst thing of indirect supports is the very narrow support at 12 oclock. Many racquets which come off such a support show damage because of the huge pressure between the support and the inside of the racquet.

If the old fashioned banana would be used, like in the old Ektelon, it would give a big improvement.

So Load Spreaders are certainly better because theylower the pressure and if they are stiff enough they provide some direct support.

The stress in the racquet is very high but the lucky thing nowadays is that they are really very strong and the stringing tensions are much lower.

However a perfect stringer should minimize remaining stress after stringing, which means that the Length and width of the string area are the same after stringing as they were before without strings.

Ok, so I notice a lot of modern stringing machines have very narrow supports at 12 and 6 positions. These supports often have rubber caps and basically "clamp" the racquet horizontally.

I've also seen older machines that have narrow supports but have additional components that permit the racquet to be clamped vertically. (IE the racquet is clamped down flat onto the turntable using a protective spacer, a wide cog nut, and then a securing lock nut.) Does this vertical clamping secure the racquet in a way that makes it less prone to stress at the 12 position?

I agree that Load Spreaders are a good thing if they can be used.

I also accept that the hoop dimensions should remain the same. However, tennis string is flexible. Surely, unless the tension is very very high, won't the strength and flexibilty of the frame overide that of the string in most situations such that the frame will usually return to its proper dimensions after a short period of time?

I would have thought that if the stresses exceeded the tolerance of the racquet hoop then the racquet would crack on the stringing machine well before the stringing process had been completed.

 

[Technatic]

I've also seen older machines that have narrow supports but have additional components that permit the racquet to be clamped vertically. (IE the racquet is clamped down flat onto the turntable using a protective spacer, a wide cog nut, and then a securing lock nut.) Does this vertical clamping secure the racquet in a way that makes it less prone to stress at the 12 position?

Yes but only a little. The horizontal force that these vertical clamps supply is only by friction. The force of the centre support with 18 mains at 50 lbs is 900 lbs. With friction coefficient of 0,2 and a clamping force of 200 lbs (that is what a screw does about) the horizontal component is only 40 lbs.

I also accept that the hoop dimensions should remain the same. However, tennis string is flexible. Surely, unless the tension is very very high, won't the strength and flexibilty of the frame overide that of the string in most situations such that the frame will usually return to its proper dimensions after a short period of time?

No this is not a matter flexibility of strings and against the flexibility of the frame. It is the balance between the forces in cross and main direction.

However, if the frame is “prestretched” by the deflection that deflection will work on the string.

If it is a good string with much elastic elongation and only little remaining there will be no loss of tension in the string.

But if it is a mono with a lot of remaining and only little elastic elongation the deflection of the racquet will certainly lower the tension in the string.

I would have thought that if the stresses exceeded the tolerance of the racquet hoop then the racquet would crack on the stringing machine well before the stringing process had been completed.

The machine offers the support against the forces of the strings so the stress in the racquet should remain acceptable but that depends on the mechanics in the racquet.

It went terribly wrong on the machines with indirect support with the first Drop shaped racquets where the mains ended at the throat.”These cracked on the machine for 2 reasons:

- There was a struggle in the racquet because the widening at the head side was huge and very small at the throat.

- The cross strings starting at the throat increased this struggle resulting in huge pressure of the out side supports at the head side.

On machines with direct supports these racquets could be strung from throat to head without a problem.

 

[Technatic]

"String-store-hole".

HI guys,

Maybe this is an idea for other stringers also:

One of the time consuming things for stringers is to find the end of the string every time.

The LW traveler has 2 little 2 mm holes in the support plate with a 45 degrees countersink to store the end of the stroke.

In this way the stringer always knows where to find the end of the string.


And these holes are easy to drill in any machine.

 

[MAX PLY]

Nice innovation. But I won't be drilling holes in any machines soon--I keep it fine without help.

 

[yyyggg222]

Totally agree, unnecessary extra. MS140 looks good, but expensive and complicated.
In the past, there was portable stringing machine Laserfibre MS200 ECO. It came in 2 versions: standard ECO Traveler version with a single slim steel beam turntable with flying clamps and cast aluminum turntable with possibility to use fixed clamps.
Simple, reliable, no frills machine. See pictures and review at
http://www.keohi.com/tennis/laserfibre/
Where is this machine now?

 

[yyyggg222]

"maybe you should work-out a bit. Most people have stronger leg-muscles as arm-muscles"

Really ?

• I go to gym 3-4 times a week during winter time, summer times a bit less
• I stretch 5 times a week for more than an hour
• I ride bike 15-50 km almost every day, also during winter time
• Depending on the winter I do cross country skiing 500 - 1000 km a year , sometimes more than 60 km a day
• I play tennis several times a week, during summer time sometimes for more 3 hours in a row (singles)
• I play 30-40 rounds of golf a summer with heavy carry on bag in a hilly course
• A few years back I played 2 hour tennis in the morning (singles) followed by a full round of golf and then played tennis (doubles) for 2 hours in the afternoon/evening, used my bike to go to tennis courts, 3 km one way
• I have gone to mountains( Alps, Dolomites and Rocky Mountains) for skiing 12 years in a row and doing off piste, powder and mogul skiing, besides that I used to go often to local hills here in Finland
• A few years back I in a fitness test with a bike ergometer my fitness level would have been excellent for an 18 year old, I was 50 at that time
• I used to go jogging in the mornings several time a week but due to my knees I do not do that any more.
• I still fit in the clothes I was wearing 30 years ago

What kind of work-out you recommend I should do ?

I recommend to you to use leg extension machine on regular basis. It did help me a lot.

 

[onehandbh]

Totally agree, unnecessary extra. MS140 looks good, but expensive and complicated.
In the past, there was portable stringing machine Laserfibre MS200 ECO. It came in 2 versions: standard ECO Traveler version with a single slim steel beam turntable with flying clamps and cast aluminum turntable with possibility to use fixed clamps.
Simple, reliable, no frills machine. See pictures and review at
http://www.keohi.com/tennis/laserfibre/
Where is this machine now?

The new MS140 looks much better and it is also portable.
If I didn't alrready have an ML90 (for many years) I would buy the MS140.

 

[Technatic]

Totally agree, unnecessary extra. MS140 looks good, but expensive….

I think it is hardly an extra, just a hole which costs nothing.

The MS140N is our cheapest machine.

and complicated.

These opinions of users tell differently:

* About the "string-store-hole" in the support plate:

Ah, now I know what it is for!
That's an excellent idea, this machine is really "designed by stringers for stringers"!

* Next time I use the string end holder and make note about it. Just a feedback to you that I did several stringing this week with the traveler machine and I find it really fantastic. Simple, fast and stable racquet fixing together with very reliable flying clamps and constant pull !

* I feel that the stringer is very sturdy, and my first time using flying clamps. Glad I got the Triple and Double combination.

* Gisteren heb ik de bespan machine ontvangen waarvoor mijn dank; ziet er geweldig fraai uit.
In English: Yesterday I received the stringing bespan machine for which my thanks; looks great.

* I have successfully strung 5 racquets and would like to give my brief feedback.

Stringing was real pleasure, your clamps are amazing. I'm really happy with the machine.

* French agent: All 5 clients are pleased with their new machine, me too !!!
Thanks Fred, a great job mate.

* Prettig bespannen op de traveler. En je kunt mooi zuinig bespannen het spanmechanisme zit dicht bij het racket.
In English: Pleasantly stringing on the traveler. And you can string economically the tensioner is close to the racket.

 

[Technatic]

In the past, there was portable stringing machine Laserfibre MS200 ECO. It came in 2 versions: standard ECO Traveler version with a single slim steel beam turntable with flying clamps and cast aluminum turntable with possibility to use fixed clamps.

This is the actual traveler of that Lasermachine that we made.

But that machine was much heavier and less transportable than the MS140.

 

[yyyggg222]

MS140 is portable, but it's not so light, over 10kg with the case. How often do you need to travel with the stringing machine? What you need is to put away your machine in the closet after the stringing. It should have easy assembly as well. You don’t want to spend much time setting it up.

Laserfibre MS200 Eco has the same as MS140, 4 point support, but better clamping system. MS140 fast clamping system would make difficult to access central holes. I’m not sure about Babolat retainer in MS140, but I think you wouldn’t be able to use it for stringing some racquets.

You are happy with ML90 because it's a good machine, maybe it’s not so light and portable as MS140, but simple and reliable. Keep it, you would regret if you swap it on MS140. Laserfibre MS200 Eco is a portable version of ML90.

 

[onehandbh]

It doesn’t look like the mounting system will cause any problems to me.

I am very happy with my ML90 and don’t plan and swapping it for a MS140 since the ML90 seems like it will last for a long, long time.

When I am not stringing a racquet, I put it away in a closet. Would have been nice to have something smaller and lighter like the MS140.

MS140 is portable, but it's not so light, over 10kg with the case. How often do you need to travel with the stringing machine? What you need is to put away your machine in the closet after the stringing. It should have easy assembly as well. You don’t want to spend much time setting it up.

Laserfibre MS200 Eco has the same as MS140, 4 point support, but better clamping system. MS140 fast clamping system would make difficult to access central holes. I’m not sure about Babolat retainer in MS140, but I think you wouldn’t be able to use it for stringing some racquets.

You are happy with ML90 because it's a good machine, maybe it’s not so light and portable as MS140, but simple and reliable. Keep it, you would regret if you swap it on MS140. Laserfibre MS200 Eco is a portable version of ML90.

 

[Technatic]

Laserfibre MS200 Eco has the same as MS140, 4 point support, but better clamping system. MS140 fast clamping system would make difficult to access central holes. I’m not sure about Babolat retainer in MS140, but I think you wouldn’t be able to use it for stringing some racquets.

HI yyyggg222,

Don’t you think that this would be a “little” unlogic from a company point of few?

I assume that you judge the MS140 by looking at the pictures and the video. (Otherwise you would have known about the Babolat retainer and that you can also use the small retainers of your machine).

In that case you have seen that the MS140 in the video has the support of your LF eco machine.

What reason could we have to develop a new system for the new machine, which is worse than the old system that we already have (since 1995).

Could it be that you can only compare systems well by using them both?

Or do stringers like a machine when there are a lot of clamps and a lot of steel instead of plastic?

Btw: The Babolat retainer has the advantage that it can hold all kind of bridges whatever the shape.

 

[yyyggg222]

I maybe wrong, it's only my opinion.
MS140 has better turntable, but not the racquet support.
MS 200 Eco has longer plates and there is no problem to get access to central holes.
To start stringing on MS140, you probably need to insert string before clamping the racquet. Fast clamp at the throat completely blocks the central holes.
I don't know why you changed it. The only reason I see, it's to have smaller size of turntable.
Using clamp for the base is a very good idea, but drop weight would work even better than the springs.
You can offer the options, MS140 with the springs and MS140 with drop weight.

 

[onehandbh]

You can offer the options, MS140 with the springs and MS140 with drop weight.

But that doesn’t make sense. The MS140 is supposed to be a lightweight portable stringer.

Adding a dropweight would be like adding giant offroad tires to a Mini Cooper.

 

[Irvin]

Deleted

 

[yyyggg222]

 

[yyyggg222]

What make sense is to give people what they want, even if it doesn't make sense to you.

 

[jwocky]

 

[yyyggg222]

I give up..

 

[MrSmith]

I have MS140 and I don't like 'fast clamps'. It would be interesting to get opinions the other MS140's users, and not Stringway.

 

[Technatic]

I have MS140 and I don't like 'fast clamps'. It would be interesting to get opinions the other MS140's users, and not Stringway.

Please keep in mind that it is very simple to “switch the fast clamp system off” and to use a normal knob.

Or to choose the normal knob system of the MS140N.

The knob will provide considerably less clamping force though.

 

[Technatic]

We understand that there are some misunderstandings about how to use the fast clamp system.

We will make a video.

 

[Casius_Juventus]

I was hoping to see some independent reviews (pros and cons) and videos of the MS140 along with full racquet stringing (as in the case of the French video of the MS200) to get a good gist of its operations but so far there have been none. I anxiously and excitedly await before I pull the trigger on any purchase.