Stroke ratings

[beltsman]

We always talk about who has "better" strokes, but the conversation is often apples to oranges with some people giving more weight to power, or consistency, etc.

I like to think of it as:
- Attacking consistency (ability to attack without error)
- Attacking damage
- Rally consistency
- Rally damage (how much a rally ball hurts an opponent
- Dynamic rating (ability to "create" with the shot)
- Elasticity (ability to withstand pressure and return ball)

What do you think?

Here are my prime Federer, Nadal, Djokovic ratings for FH (out of 10):

Prime Federer FH:
Attacking consistency - 9
Attacking damage - 10
Rally consistency - 8
Rally damage - 9
Dynamic rating - 10
Elasticity - 9

Prime Federer BH (includes slice):
Attacking consistency - 6
Attacking damage - 8
Rally consistency - 6
Rally damage - 5
Dynamic rating - 10 (flick winners, angles, passing shots, etc)
Elasticity - 9 (slice allowed Federer to absorb pace)

Prime Nadal FH:
Attacking consistency - 7
Attacking damage - 9
Rally consistency - 10
Rally damage - 10
Dynamic rating - 10
Elasticity - 10

Prime Nadal BH:
Attacking consistency - 7
Attacking damage - 8
Rally consistency - 7
Rally damage - 6
Dynamic rating - 10
Elasticity - 10

Prime Djokovic FH:
Attacking consistency - 6
Attacking damage - 7
Rally consistency - 10
Rally damage - 8
Dynamic rating - 7
Elasticity - 10

Prime Djokovic BH:
Attacking consistency - 10
Attacking damage - 9
Rally consistency - 10
Rally damage - 9
Dynamic rating - 8
Elasticity - 10

Alcaraz FH:
Attacking consistency - 7
Attacking damage - 10
Rally consistency - 7
Rally damage - 9
Dynamic rating - 10
Elasticity - 9

 

[The Guru]

Why is Nadal's BH rally consistency so low? Nadal almost never missed trading BHs in his prime.

 

[OKUSA]

the only way to beat nadal in his prime was to attack his forehand. it was the only thing that broke down under pressure. shouldn't be 10/10 elasticity imo

 

[tudwell]

Yes, this type of analysis is a lot more interesting and accurate than just giving a blanket X/10 rating for an entire shot (or an entire match – every facet of the game subsumed into one number!).

I agree that, under your terminology, the "dynamic" factor is where Fedal really differentiate themselves on the forehand side from Djokovic. I think you might underrate his rally damage – he outmuscles many players on the forehand side, it's just usually a bit more meticulous because he's not going for flashy shotmaking winners but instead slowly breaking things down. Which, yes, is inevitably tied to rally consistency as well, but that's what makes Novak so incredibly tough to beat. Plenty of players can make as few errors as he does, but they can't make that few errors and hit with the level of depth and (very controlled, very meticulous) aggression that he does.

I also feel like Nadal's rally damage on the forehand side is somewhat inflated by being a lefty? On high-bouncing surfaces against the right kind of player, the most anodyne, spinny forehand he can hit will elicit error after error. He would still have one of the greatest forehands of all time even if he were a righty, of course, but he wouldn't have quite the same level of cheat-code dominance in cross-court rallies.

 

[beltsman]

Why is Nadal's BH rally consistency so low? Nadal almost never missed trading BHs in his prime.

7 is low? Not to me. It held up okay but could break down. Fed imposed his FH on the Nadal BH a lot too. I think 7 is about right, maybe an 8.