strong eastern forehand vs semi-western forehand grip

Spoderblitz

New User
(Apologies if I posted it on the wrong forum)

For me, I'm using the strong eastern (In between e/sw) but I'm planning on switching to the semi western as it is quite difficult for me to hit high balls and hitting more spin.

Which one's better all round?
Which one would you prefer to use?

Thanks.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
While the SW grip variations has become the de facto standard in pro tennis it is not necessarily the best all around grip for you. Elite such as Federer, Dimitrov and Del Potro use an Eastern (or a modified Eastern). Quite a few WTA players use it as well. With non-elite players, Eastern grip will often work best. No right answer. I depends on the needs and abilities of the individual. Some players, like me, will employ a modified Eastern for most of my shots but I will often switch to a SW for certain situations -- like high balls. Many pros and non-elite players will employ more than 1 Fh grip. But this is not necessarily for everyone.

With his Eastern grip variations, Federer can still hit more topspin than most players. According to the article below, Roger's avg topspin is 2700 rpm compared to 3200 rpm for Rafa, the topspin king. Rafa's heaviest topspin has measured around 4900 pm. Roger is not too far behind with 4500 rpm. This is more than most ppl will achieve with a SW grip.

http://jimfawcette.typepad.com/fnet/2012/02/federer-hits-with-more-spin-than-nadal-.html


Coach Brady Heite does a decent job of discussing the pros and cons of Eastern grips.

 
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Slicerman

Professional
I actually use "strong eastern forehand grip" (in between bevel 3 and 4) because I like the variety it gives my forehand and it feels the most natural to me. I find it good for handling shoulder high balls, low balls and everything in between. To me its versatile enough to hit anything from flat drives to high loopers. I tend to improvise my forehand on the fly and use both straight arm and bent arm swings depending on the situation. My ideal forehand contact height is around chest level.
 

Dragy

Legend
(Apologies if I posted it on the wrong forum)

For me, I'm using the strong eastern (In between e/sw) but I'm planning on switching to the semi western as it is quite difficult for me to hit high balls and hitting more spin.

Which one's better all round?
Which one would you prefer to use?

Thanks.
You should carefully consider your goals. As it was said by fellow posters, strong eastern is perfectly good for spin. Going for SW might give you a chance to naturally play higher balls and impart more spin (not just "give" more spin, but allow for steeper swingpath with natural racquet face angle control).

The high ball part is a bit tricky. How you get those balls? Do you play on clay against heavy hitters with tons of spin and depth? As this is the only case you really are forced to play lots of high balls - falling back to hit on descend would be giving away too much space, if ever possible due to close fence; hitting on the rise is a problem due to inconsistent bounce with lots of vertical movement.
If the high-bouncer is shorter, it's absolutely ok to hit it on descend, from just behind the baseline - you shouldn't always step in and play at peak. If the surface is consistent, you have the on-the-rise option, which is also better than hitting shoulder-hight. So possibly improve footwork and try positioning yourself in such a manner that you are not forced to hit the high-bouncer on peak.

With your average tennis player, troubles arise from high bouncers, but from short balls and low slices as well. Changing grip you might improve in one area, but lose in other. Lose shot penetration for spin as well. So I suggest that you think carefully before going for change with your reasoning.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
(Apologies if I posted it on the wrong forum)

For me, I'm using the strong eastern (In between e/sw) but I'm planning on switching to the semi western as it is quite difficult for me to hit high balls and hitting more spin.

Which one's better all round?
Which one would you prefer to use?

Thanks.
What exactly are your problems with high balls and why do you need spin? You need to define the problem in these terms like whether you are overhitting and hence looking for more spin. Yes, you will get more spin with SW but it's easier to hit through with an Eastern/Extreme Eastern.
 

TBT

New User
(Apologies if I posted it on the wrong forum)

For me, I'm using the strong eastern (In between e/sw) but I'm planning on switching to the semi western as it is quite difficult for me to hit high balls and hitting more spin.

Which one's better all round?
Which one would you prefer to use?

Thanks.

You have to hold the racquet in the grip that you find most comfortable, short players tend to use more extreme grips because they need more spin. Regarding the high balls you can tailor your footwork to pick them up or down at the ideal stroke zone. I see a lot of players playing in the western on clay and I do not think this is a natural grip. You have to see how good it feels.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW backhand grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.
 
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TBT

New User
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.

I use a SW grip and I can say that in the same way that you have problems with high balls, I have problems in making winners, my balls always have spin even when I try to hit flat balls. So I play on clay so it's ok, but often this is frustrating. There is no ideal world.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW backhand grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.

Jeff Eisenstein?
 

Spoderblitz

New User
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW backhand grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.

I don't think Wawrinka uses a SW backhand grip. I know Gasquet and Henin do.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW backhand grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.

But Salzenstein did a video on the forehand recently where he advocated an SW grip.

 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
I like eastern. It just so happens the greatest forehands in tennis history used eastern as well. Plenty of spin, easier to drive, good for low balls too.
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
I heard a discussion on this with Jeff Eisenstein and John Yandell. It related to the one handed bh grip but I think it applies to fh as well.

They both agreed that a SW backhand grip like Wawrinka was too extreme for club players. Club players simply do not see the high incoming calls to justify the SW. Best to go with Eastern.

Not sure I agree as I sometimes have trouble with high balls using an Eastern. ANd it also seems like the SW guys have higher margin and can hit forever in rallies.
The OP was asking about forehands.
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
I don't really know how to answer this question without more information. The grip is just one part of a overall system. Without understanding the entire system it's really hard to recommend anything.

The spin that everyone is talking about is a function of the swing. The grip affects that to some degree, but a SW grip by itself isn't going to give you swing that produces tons of topspin. You can hit super flat with a SW grip. It's actually a pretty versatile grip.

FWIW, I've transitioned from an E grip about 10 years ago to a full SW for the last couple of years, stopping off at a mod-E for a couple years. But during that time I was changing my swing. I was making it more ATP and less classical (no comment on which is better, it's just what I wanted to do). The grip changes were driven by the swing changes. With the more ATP-ish stroke the SW felt better.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The OP was asking about forehands.

As stated, the interview was from the Jeff Salzenstein 1hbh topspin backhand course few years ago, but the argument can be applied to the forehand.

Interview stated that Wawrinka's SW 1hbh grip is too extreme for club players (natural contact point is too high and they are not dealing with the 7.0 incoming height), so it follows that Eastern should be used on the forehand as well. And that is John Yandell's position -- Eastern on both sides.

Jeff has since changed his view and now leans towards SW.
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I don't think Wawrinka uses a SW backhand grip. I know Gasquet and Henin do.

IIRC, the course said Wawrinka has a much higher natural contact point than Federer's Eastern grip due to his more extreme grip and that is one reason why he is not as troubled by Nadal's high shots to his bh.

I took this to mean SW but maybe it is in between Eastern and SW.
 
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zalive

Hall of Fame
If you play with the poly string bed IMO SW grip is absolutely better because it's easier/more natural to handle the launch angle.
If you play with other types of strings (string bed without snapback) Eastern or more closed Eastern (this is strong Eastern to you I guess?) is fine.

IIRC, the course said Wawrinka has a much higher natural contact point than Federer's Eastern grip due to his more extreme grip and that is one reason why he is not as troubled by Nadal's high shots to his bh.

I took this to mean SW but maybe it is in between Eastern and SW.

Anyone using a OHBH swing which includes loopy ("U") shaped swing path is better off with using an extreme grip like SW BH grip rather than E BH grip, because the swing path is steeper, and SW BH grip makes it easier to keep the launch angle in control.
 
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TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
While the SW grip variations has become the de facto standard in pro tennis it is not necessarily the best all around grip for you. Elite such as Federer, Dimitrov and Del Potro use an Eastern (or a modified Eastern). Quite a few WTA players use it as well. With non-elite players, Eastern grip will often work best. No right answer. I depends on the needs and abilities of the individual. Some players, like me, will employ a modified Eastern for most of my shots but I will often switch to a SW for certain situations -- like high balls. Many pros and non-elite players will employ more than 1 Fh grip. But this is not necessarily for everyone.

With his Eastern grip variations, Federer can still hit more topspin than most players. According to the article below, Roger's avg topspin is 2700 rpm compared to 3200 rpm for Rafa, the topspin king. Rafa's heaviest topspin has measured around 4900 pm. Roger is not too far behind with 4500 rpm. This is more than most ppl will achieve with a SW grip.

http://jimfawcette.typepad.com/fnet/2012/02/federer-hits-with-more-spin-than-nadal-.html


Coach Brady Heite does a decent job of discussing the pros and cons of Eastern grips.

The article states Federer hits with a more neutral FH grip. What does that mean?
 

crazyups

Professional
The article states Federer hits with a more neutral FH grip. What does that mean?
I don't think it's Federer's grip that used to give him problems with high balls. It's more that he didn't practice it as much as recently and also that he used a 90 square inch racquet and now uses 97. Wawrinka actually has a mild eastern backhand grip and Fed's is a little more extreme(regular eastern). Their techniques are different also. Just look at pictures of both during contact and you will see that Fed's knuckle on his index finger is a little higher on the bevels than Wawrinka's. Wawrinka is stronger in his arm/hand/upper body which helps with high balls.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
So many replies but in my opinion no really useful ones.

Heres my advice OP, the only advice you will ever need:

Stop overanalyzing useless stuff and asking other people things like which grip is better because its a d*mb question. Its almost like asking what color racquet is better, when the answer is personal preference. Instead try out different variations and use what works BEST for YOU.
Why would you use some grip that some guy says is better if another grip would work better for you personaly?

Sometimes I really don't get these questions.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
I don't think it's Federer's grip that used to give him problems with high balls. It's more that he didn't practice it as much as recently and also that he used a 90 square inch racquet and now uses 97. Wawrinka actually has a mild eastern backhand grip and Fed's is a little more extreme(regular eastern). Their techniques are different also. Just look at pictures of both during contact and you will see that Fed's knuckle on his index finger is a little higher on the bevels than Wawrinka's. Wawrinka is stronger in his arm/hand/upper body which helps with high balls.
So, what is a neutral FH grip?
Article should explain that but they leave it to interpretation.
 

MisterP

Hall of Fame
Just slightly adjust the grip for high balls. It isn't that hard to do. We do it all the time when switching back and forth between forehands and backhands, slice and topspin.

Source:

Been using an extreme eastern grip since I started tennis 5 years ago, and anything above the waist is a crap shoot with that grip.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
tennis-grips-hand-guide.jpg


What do you call a FH grip with the heel of hand on 2 and base knuckle on 3?
I mostly use that one.
 

MisterP

Hall of Fame
tennis-grips-hand-guide.jpg


What do you call a FH grip with the heel of hand on 2 and base knuckle on 3?
I mostly use that one.

The eastern grips shown above are for backhands, not for forehands. An eastern forehand grip, according to the diagram above, would be Green: 3 Red: 2.

So, the grip you're describing would be an eastern forehand grip. An extreme eastern forehand grip would be Green: 3/4 Red: 2/3
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
The eastern grips shown above are for backhands, not for forehands. An eastern forehand grip, according to the diagram above, would be Green: 3 Red: 2.

So, the grip you're describing would be an eastern forehand grip. An extreme eastern forehand grip would be Green: 3/4 Red: 2/3

Oh, that makes sense, so my initial understanding which is which grip was ok then :) thanks!
 
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Bender

G.O.A.T.
Went from a strong SW grip to a normal SW grip to a strong E grip. The following is purely an observation of how the grips fared for me and me only:

High balls are easier to hit with the strong E / very conservative SW grip because you can hit through the ball at that height far better than you can with the SW, ASSUMING that you make contact well in front of the body like you're supposed to. That results in an almost laser-like forehand. With my old SW and extreme SW grip, I found myself overspinning those balls despite hitting well in front of my body (I play with a straight-ish arm forehand most of the time). With the straight arm FH, the SW grip resulted in a naturally over-closed racquet face, coughing up short but heavy topspin balls.

With a double bend, the SW is probably going to be better, assuming the grip is the only difference. With a straight arm forehand, on a high ball, the strong E grip naturally results in a modestly closed racquet face. With a double-bend, that same EE grip has a tendency to leave the racquet face too open, resulting in the tennis version of Kerbal Space Program.
 

BaddJordan

New User
I love the extreme eastern grip, its just comfortable and its easier for low balls for me. There is no right or wrong answer, its what you feel more comfortable on.
 

justballtennis

New User
It’s all preference and what you would like to get out of the ball! As a coach, I would always teach semi western unless the player had a good outcome with an eatern grip. I would always recommend eatern, it’s the most widely used and can naturally gain more spin and feel than an eastern. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t get spin and feel with an eastern. If you’re willing to change, be patient as it can take a while in getting used to.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
The only way to find out is to try the semi western and see how it works out for you. If you play a lot of competitive tennis on higher bouncing surfaces against young players then semi western is common place.
On the other hand if you spend most of your time on grass and synthetic grass and you tend to have a more old school classical game then eastern may work for you better.
I'm all for fostering individual styles rather than getting everyone to play the same way, but you need to find out what works for you better. While the game constantly evolves and popular styles dominate, doesn't mean you can't innovate.
 

Smarticus523

New User
I use a SW grip and I can say that in the same way that you have problems with high balls, I have problems in making winners, my balls always have spin even when I try to hit flat balls. So I play on clay so it's ok, but often this is frustrating. There is no ideal world.
The racquet also has a lot of effect on spin. Do you use a Babolat by chance? If so, that racquet puts spin on everything... It's crazy. Perhaps in addition to other fixes, try a different racquet briefly to see if it's you or the racquet...
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
The racquet also has a lot of effect on spin. Do you use a Babolat by chance? If so, that racquet puts spin on everything... It's crazy. Perhaps in addition to other fixes, try a different racquet briefly to see if it's you or the racquet...
Wat
 
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