Struggling with consistency on groundstrokes

[tennisboss]

I've been playing tennis for about almost a year (15 yrs old) - and have gone a LONG way. I hope I'm not overrating myself, but I think I'm about a solid 3.5. I struggle with consistency - I have a really good topspin FH and BH, but they're not reliable and any time I try to really go after it one of three things can happen - I hit an amazing winner or it spins into the net or goes slightly too deep (topspin dips it down but is more on the topspin lob side). I don't think my issue lies on a technical level, I'm 6 ft tall so I have to really brush up on those low balls, but any time I decelerate my racquet head and lift the ball, I get dominated in a rally - especially since I practice with solid 4.0 players. I also have periods where I shank the ball five times in a row - could be mental, but I generally have a good attitude and think sometimes my footwork and timing is really lazy. What should I do to improve groundstroke consistency and last in a rally? I can hit with really good amounts of speed and topspin, but that's when consistency starts to decline, and sometimes I have to resort to "lifting" the ball up and doing these really slow topspin shots. I'm thinking of getting a coach, I would clearly improve a lot, but parents aren't letting me yet (during pandemic, hopefully, they get me a coach later)

 

[Steady Eddy]

I think you're doing well considering: one year is not long for playing tennis, 15 is actually a bit old to take up the game if you have high aspirations.

The good news is that you have access to 4.0 players and if you keep practicing with them you'll master the groundstrokes in another year. Work on having an all court game and by the time you're 18 you'll be a solid tennis player. Probably for the rest of your life!

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I've been playing tennis for about almost a year (15 yrs old) - and have gone a LONG way. I hope I'm not overrating myself, but I think I'm about a solid 3.5. I struggle with consistency - I have a really good topspin FH and BH, but they're not reliable and any time I try to really go after it one of three things can happen - I hit an amazing winner or it spins into the net or goes slightly too deep (topspin dips it down but is more on the topspin lob side). I don't think my issue lies on a technical level, I'm 6 ft tall so I have to really brush up on those low balls, but any time I decelerate my racquet head and lift the ball, I get dominated in a rally - especially since I practice with solid 4.0 players. I also have periods where I shank the ball five times in a row - could be mental, but I generally have a good attitude and think sometimes my footwork and timing is really lazy. What should I do to improve groundstroke consistency and last in a rally? I can hit with really good amounts of speed and topspin, but that's when consistency starts to decline, and sometimes I have to resort to "lifting" the ball up and doing these really slow topspin shots. I'm thinking of getting a coach, I would clearly improve a lot, but parents aren't letting me yet (during pandemic, hopefully, they get me a coach later)

Don't neglect the "simpler" exercises like self-feeds, partner feeds, ball machine, and the wall. Get comfortable hitting one sound stroke rather than trying to string a bunch of them together and under the stress of a rally. Set up targets and get good at nailing them. Then you can start to introduce more dynamic movement and rallies and match play.

It will take longer than if you just push and wait on UEs but your improvement ceiling will be higher and your long-term development more complete, IMO.

One thing that might help is to film yourself from the side but from far enough away that you can capture the entire length of the court: now you'll be able to see the trajectory of the ball and get a better idea of what to tweak than if you filmed from a more traditional position.

I would consider the 3Fs: footwork, focus <mental toughness>, fitness, and spacing.

Shanking 5 times in a row is likely poor focus. Also, make sure you're not lifting your head up prematurely to watch where the ball is going. Force yourself to keep your eyes locked on the contact point for an extra second [Federer is the poster child for this attribute].

 

[user92626]

tennisboss,

A way to verify if your problem is due to footwork is to self-drop or toss balls in front of you and wack it over. Can you make at least 8 out 10 times in the way that you're happy about? If you cannot, there's some technical errors in your swing.

Footwork is cited and credited alot in this place. Ironically, 99% of people play doubles (if they ever play matches) and in dubs you need about two steps to cover your court but people mess up their shots randomly all the time.

 

[Mountain Ghost]

Elevation inconsistencies.on ground strokes commonly come from two things ... ... ... the racquet-face angle changing through the forward stroke and contact zone ... and positioning inconsistencies ... often too close to the ball and not being able to hit out.

It would be good to take lessons from the best pro in your town ... but a lot can be done on your own by practicing "intelligent" technique with a constant ball source ... like a feeder friend or a ball machine. Truth is ... there are certain technical components in tennis that require too many exact repititions in a row to embed the correct muscle memory ... if you're just hitting with other players ... especially if THEY are at the same less-than-steady level as you are.

I have found great success working with players on some tennis stroke components ... using a table tennis environment ... table, robot, extended paddle. But it requires diligent oversight ... because many advanced table tennis techniques and movements are not only not transferable to full scale tennis technique ... but they will actually damage it.

~ MG

 

[user92626]

Elevation inconsistencies.on ground strokes commonly come from two things ... ... ... the racquet-face angle changing through the forward stroke and contact zone ... and positioning inconsistencies ... often too close to the ball and not being able to hit out.



~ MG

Interesting. About racket face changing thing, i wonder, the swing is happening extremely fast, beyond humans awareness, how is it produced?

 

[Mountain Ghost]

Interesting. About racket face changing thing, i wonder, the swing is happening extremely fast, beyond humans awareness, how is it produced?

The main mental focus of elevation control on a forehand ... is actually the ELBOW ... where its "attitude" should remain constant (pointed down) ... before, during and just after contact ~ MG

 

[user92626]

The main mental focus of elevation control on a forehand ... is actually the ELBOW ... where its "attitude" should remain constant (pointed down) ... before, during and just after contact ~ MG

Oh man you're speaking Greek to me now. No idea what u just said.

Any chance to explain it with a photo? Draw some crude lines, circles to highlight what u mean

 

[Dragy]

The main mental focus of elevation control on a forehand ... is actually the ELBOW ... where its "attitude" should remain constant (pointed down) ... before, during and just after contact ~ MG

I have doubt about this. I’m supposed to start ISR (rotating elbow from pointing down to pointing back/to the side) approaching contact. If I hold it down, my racquet face actually opens as arm swings forward and up:

 

[Hit 'em clean]

Fastest way to improve is practice... no way around it. Get on a ball machine (best practice without a partner), drop and hit balls by yourself into the open court (highly underrated practice), hit against a wall, etc. At your level you still really need to work on consistency the most... getting balls back and having confidence to swing out while producing consistent spin and consistent depth control.

Trying to 'practice' while playing matches will not provide the same amount of improvement and can impede improvement. Matches are important, but not a time to 'try' new things as you will always revert to what you're comfortable with which may not be what you're trying to work on. Practice is where you can groove and imprint changes to the point where you can than use them naturally in a match. Once you have solid reliable strokes it is much easier to then learn strategy which will give you another bump in your level.

I would also recommend getting a coach to give you direction as trying to self diagnose issues at your level is very difficult. You can waste a lot of time and energy trying to improve something only to find out that what you think you're doing is wrong... or worse what you think you should be doing is wrong. You don't want to waste practice time practicing bad mechanics and ideas.

If you can find a good partner to practice with (better player is often better if they are nice to give you the time) that's really good practice as you can work on crosscourt drills, down the line, etc.

Practice is your fastest means of improvement... hit as many balls as possible.

 

[Mountain Ghost]

Elbow is ... "Pointed Down" ~ MG

Elbow is ... "Pointed Down" ~ MG

 

[user92626]

I have doubt about this. I’m supposed to start ISR (rotating elbow from pointing down to pointing back/to the side) approaching contact. If I hold it down, my racquet face actually opens as arm swings forward and up:

Did you train from this dojo? It's nice!

 

[Dragy]

Elbow is ... "Pointed Down" ~ MG

Elbow is ... "Pointed Down" ~ MG

I thought we've been discussing how it changes (or doesn't change), not how it appears at a single contact frame. I used single picture as it quite shows the extreme consequence.
For players with strong grips (SW to W) it's quite typical to keep elbow down longer, but even they have that release and internal rotation, which is well displayed through extension phase:

If we look at players with more conservative grips, rotating arm internally into contact is very clear - look at biceps orientation at lag phase and around contact:

 

[Mountain Ghost]

No ... We are talking about a "solid 3.5" (OP) ... who is having elevation control problems ... which is dealt with ... at HIS level ... by maintaining a constant racquet face angle ... the one that works at contact ... throughout more of the stroke path ... ... ... "before, during and just after contact" ~ MG

 

[Dragy]

No ... We are talking about a "solid 3.5" (OP) ... who is having elevation control problems ... which is dealt with ... at HIS level ... by maintaining a constant racquet face angle ... the one that works at contact ... throughout more of the stroke path ... ... ... "before, during and just after contact" ~ MG

That's exactly the issue for me: as arm swings forward and up, racquet face naturally opens up unless you compensate with arm rotation:

 

[Mountain Ghost]

That's exactly the issue for me: as arm swings forward and up, racquet face naturally opens up unless you compensate with arm rotation:

It only opens up for you because you probably didn't have someone teaching you a mindful series of stroke progressions ... which STARTS with one where the racquet face is vertical at EVERY point in the stroke ... from ready position ... to racquet back position ... to contact ... and to follow through up and over the left shoulder. Most people want to just copy what the pros do ... before they are ANYWHERE near ready for the variables that the pros are able to be successful with ~ MG

 

[user92626]

It only opens up for you because you probably didn't have someone teaching you a mindful series of stroke progressions ... which STARTS with one where the racquet face is vertical at EVERY point in the stroke ... from ready position ... to racquet back position ... to contact ... and to follow through up and over the left shoulder. Most people want to just copy what the pros do ... before they are ANYWHERE near ready for the variables that the pros are able to be successful with ~ MG

I like what you said about stroke progressions*. Thumbs up for you.

It's different from other coaches say JohnY, who only mentions 3 things.


(*that's because I learned from this type of progression years back and believe in it It's alot more complete. Serving me well over the years)

 

[Dragy]

It only opens up for you because you probably didn't have someone teaching you a mindful series of stroke progressions ... which STARTS with one where the racquet face is vertical at EVERY point in the stroke ... from ready position ... to racquet back position ... to contact ... and to follow through up and over the left shoulder. Most people want to just copy what the pros do ... before they are ANYWHERE near ready for the variables that the pros are able to be successful with ~ MG

Do you mean kind of saloon-door level swing?

BTW, I mean issue with your description, not with my swing.

 

[Dragy]

Did you train from this dojo? It's nice!

My school advocates more stable positions:

 

[Dragy]

I like what you said about stroke progressions*. Thumbs up for you.

It's different from other coaches say JohnY, who only mentions 3 things.


(*that's because I learned from this type of progression years back and believe in it It's alot more complete. Serving me well over the years)

To be clear, I'm all for progressions. Something caused @Mountain Ghost make some projections regarding my approach and my flawed history of development, which are not correct. I like something similar to what Brady demonstrates in the vid below to start learning FH topspin drive.

I believe that loop drop swing (do not confuse with loop backswing), or pendulum swing, is the very basis of good topspin drive. Now the proper RF orientation at contact should be mostly solved by proper contact point location. Adjustments are possible and frequently required, but model shot has to be free of such manipulations.
ISR (all-arm rotation raising racquet head above handle through contact zone) should be learned at some further stage of the progression. As well as more pronounced torso rotation, if it hasn't come naturally, and properly timed leg action to power the shot strongly.