Stuck on Serve - Opening Face?

[yegreatone]

Hey folks - been working on my serve for about 1.5 yrs. Feel like I am getting good leg drive and racquet drop, but in videos it looks like my racquet face is opening too soon. I do not think the grip is the issue (I hold between bevels 1/2); so not really sure where to go from here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[ballmachineguy]

You turn toward your target when you jump. Let the path of the racquet turn the upper body. You lose a lot of power rotating. The arm can’t go fast if the shoulder is moving forward that much. May be the cause of your contact issue. Either way, launch straight up and any turning if your upper body will be handled by where you swing the racquet.
You also drop the racquet from trophy position too soon before launch.

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Throw the edge of the racket at the ball. You care too much about controlling the results, that's why your racket face is opening up early.

 

[yegreatone]

thanks both . I'll work on the overrotating (know it's an issue).

 

[SV10is]

I'd start by simplifying things down a little bit. You do not need to jump to hit a fairly good serve and you're clearly having trouble finding the proper timing to use that jump as part of your service motion as opposed to just jumping. See how hard Djokovic can hit during practice while he barely hops:

The next thing I would do is make sure I have a little more time to swing. You're going to have a little more time once you stop exaggerating that jump. If you can't quite hit that trophy position just right yet, I'd consider tossing slightly higher.

Now that this is out of the way, take a look at Djokovic again. You don't have to bring the racket up the same way he does, but you do have to make sure the hitting side of your string bed doesn't point at the sky before you start swinging. And he does briefly hit that 90ish elbow bent, racket tip to the sky, tossing arm up kind of posture we call the trophy position before he hits. The idea here is that you're preparing to throw your hand up, so you align your shoulders to point up.

Another tip would be for tossing. You seem to be bending your arm which can lead to a whole host of problem (and you can't hit a proper serve if the ball is in the wrong spot). Here's a few things that can help:
1. I always start with my arm straight and my upper arm touching my rib cage. That way, you always start in exactly the same position and you're not tempted to player with your elbow;
2. You should start low and gradually accelerate your arm up to toss at the proper height. No jerking suddenly up here!

If all fails, you can also try to play it like Roddick, Nadal and Monfils with an abbreviated motion. The key point, though, is you need to hit that trophy position before you swing. And, yes, trying to hit the ball with the edge of your racket is a good mental picture for what you're trying to do. I also find that hitting overheads helps figuring out where the ball needs to be and when you should swing. Just make sure you do have the right posture when hitting overheads too. (And you can practice those alone by smacking a ball down hard with your racket so you get a very high bounce you can chase).

 

[TennisDawg]

Something I’ve been working on is to delay the move to the trophy pose until the ball has been tossed into the air or has left my hand. If you look at that great video of Djokovik that’s what he does. Compare that to your service motion where your racquet arm is already in trophy pose at the same time your tossing arm is ready to toss the ball. I’m finding that it gives me a more smooth fluid motion and it may also help with your open racquet.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Hey folks - been working on my serve for about 1.5 yrs. Feel like I am getting good leg drive and racquet drop, but in videos it looks like my racquet face is opening too soon. I do not think the grip is the issue (I hold between bevels 1/2); so not really sure where to go from here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

That looks like a Waiter's Tray with the racket tilted a little bit from 'Facing the Sky'. The majority of active tennis players have a WT technique.

Forum Search: Waiter's Tray technique
Member: Chas Tennis

Forum Search: internal shoulder rotation ISR serve
Member: Chas Tennis

See some finds from 2015 & 2016 and also recent ones.

 

[yegreatone]

Thanks all.

Ballmachineguy - your tip was spot on. I focused on "tucking in" my left shoulder and the results were amazing. (Still have some early racquet drop, but I have been slowly getting that better over time, to the point where on some serves, if I focus, I can start the leg drive as the racquet passes my head.)

Chas - hmm not sure I follow. I get good racquet drop and pronation, so I assume that’s not WT. see these photos:

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Image 182180-C3-871-F-4-CC9-BCFB-3-E38508-AC71-A hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

8-AE96-FB0-93-A5-474-D-A88-F-FAC10-F683-DFD

Image 8-AE96-FB0-93-A5-474-D-A88-F-FAC10-F683-DFD hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

470-D059-D-5-BD6-4-B1-D-9-E16-78-AE0-CB48021

Image 470-D059-D-5-BD6-4-B1-D-9-E16-78-AE0-CB48021 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

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Image 64121-D9-B-9815-46-B9-893-B-C11-FABBFE0-A0 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Chas Tennis]

....................................................................................

Chas - hmm not sure I follow. I get good racquet drop and pronation, so I assume that’s not WT. see these photos:

....................

8-AE96-FB0-93-A5-474-D-A88-F-FAC10-F683-DFD

Image 8-AE96-FB0-93-A5-474-D-A88-F-FAC10-F683-DFD hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

....................
.........................

Looks WT to me.

 

[TennisDawg]

I'd start by simplifying things down a little bit. You do not need to jump to hit a fairly good serve and you're clearly having trouble finding the proper timing to use that jump as part of your service motion as opposed to just jumping. See how hard Djokovic can hit during practice while he barely hops:

The next thing I would do is make sure I have a little more time to swing. You're going to have a little more time once you stop exaggerating that jump. If you can't quite hit that trophy position just right yet, I'd consider tossing slightly higher.

Now that this is out of the way, take a look at Djokovic again. You don't have to bring the racket up the same way he does, but you do have to make sure the hitting side of your string bed doesn't point at the sky before you start swinging. And he does briefly hit that 90ish elbow bent, racket tip to the sky, tossing arm up kind of posture we call the trophy position before he hits. The idea here is that you're preparing to throw your hand up, so you align your shoulders to point up.

Another tip would be for tossing. You seem to be bending your arm which can lead to a whole host of problem (and you can't hit a proper serve if the ball is in the wrong spot). Here's a few things that can help:
1. I always start with my arm straight and my upper arm touching my rib cage. That way, you always start in exactly the same position and you're not tempted to player with your elbow;
2. You should start low and gradually accelerate your arm up to toss at the proper height. No jerking suddenly up here!

If all fails, you can also try to play it like Roddick, Nadal and Monfils with an abbreviated motion. The key point, though, is you need to hit that trophy position before you swing. And, yes, trying to hit the ball with the edge of your racket is a good mental picture for what you're trying to do. I also find that hitting overheads helps figuring out where the ball needs to be and when you should swing. Just make sure you do have the right posture when hitting overheads too. (And you can practice those alone by smacking a ball down hard with your racket so you get a very high bounce you can chase).

If you can't quite hit that trophy position just right yet, I'd consider tossing slightly higher.

Another thing to consider is to delay getting to trophy pose as Djokovik does in video. Relatively easy to incorporate.

 

[nyta2]

Hey folks - been working on my serve for about 1.5 yrs. Feel like I am getting good leg drive and racquet drop, but in videos it looks like my racquet face is opening too soon. I do not think the grip is the issue (I hold between bevels 1/2); so not really sure where to go from here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

hard to see vid on my phone, but if you’re opening too soon… I like mac i’d idea of overcompensating by intentionally incorrectly doing things…

in your case, hit a dozen or so balls with the edge of the frame… then open a tiny bit more from there

 

[yegreatone]

Whoops! Corrected here:

 

[SV10is]

Whoops! Corrected here:

Some people refer to waiter's tray as initiating the swing from a trophy pose where the string bed is open to the sky, but @Chas Tennis usually means to simply say that it opens up too early. Professional players are swinging the edge at the tennis ball until later in the swing. That said, I think it's going to be hard to swing on edge that late with the ball falling that close to the baseline and tossing that much to the left side of the court on a flat serve.

It's also not something you can actually control: it happens way too fast. I don't know if @Chas Tennis has suggestions for drills, say, on how to correct the problem or if all he can tell you is that it's not what top ten ATP players do.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Some people refer to waiter's tray as initiating the swing from a trophy pose where the string bed is open to the sky, but @Chas Tennis usually means to simply say that it opens up too early. Professional players are swinging the edge at the tennis ball until later in the swing. That said, I think it's going to be hard to swing on edge that late with the ball falling that close to the baseline and tossing that much to the left side of the court on a flat serve.

It's also not something you can actually control: it happens way too fast. I don't know if @Chas Tennis has suggestions for drills, say, on how to correct the problem or if all he can tell you is that it's not what top ten ATP players do.

I have not described Waiter's Tray as you say I did.

Always directly quote what people say.

At one instant only the high level serve has racket 'edge on to the ball' and - words alone are not enough to pin that down - it takes pictures of edge on.

The bottom red arrow shows the instant that the racket is edge on to the ball (in my usage). That is the only instant that I apply 'edge on' to the serve. Many others discuss the racket being edge on at different times. It is so screwed up that 'edge on' should never be used without a picture because the misinformation is growing.

We are living in the dark ages of the new and wonderful Information Age. The more rotten scrambled eggs that we post ('edge on'), the more difficult it is for readers to find what is true. For tennis strokes, learn to look at high speed videos as many/all? popular word descriptions of tennis strokes fall apart when viewing high speed videos.

The Waiter's Tray has the racket face facing the sky, at about the same time. In all cases, that cannot become a high level serve. There is, however, another technique, where the racket face faces the sky, ISR is being used for racket head speed, but it is not a Waiter's Tray technique or a high level serve.

The tennis term minds vs the high speed video minds are each giving their descriptions. The answer is to use both words plus high speed videos together.

Science encountered this situation centuries ago, and decided that things must be made clear for understanding to progress. Maybe it means this or maybe it means that? - in a cut and paste world - gives us what you are seeing.

Someday, someone might post a strip of frames from the Waiter's Tray above a strip of frames from a high level serve, and hopefully that display would end the 'edge on' muddle.

 

[SV10is]

Someday, someone might post a strip of frames from the Waiter's Tray above a strip of frames from a high level serve, and hopefully that display would end the 'edge on' muddle.

It's great that you do not like how people use that phrase with some good reasons and that we can all tell that the OP doesn't serve like a professional player, but that doesn't tell anyone how they should go about fixing it. I absolutely get the fun of doing research and, it may be helpful in designing proper drills and diagnostics, but we'd all be more interested in knowing how you'd fix the problem.

So, what should OP do? What should we all do? We'd all like to be hitting like top ATP players.

It's a tips and instructions forum. We're interested in problems only if they come with solutions.

 

[Chas Tennis]

It's great that you do not like how people use that phrase with some good reasons and that we can all tell that the OP doesn't serve like a professional player, but that doesn't tell anyone how they should go about fixing it. I absolutely get the fun of doing research and, it may be helpful in designing proper drills and diagnostics, but we'd all be more interested in knowing how you'd fix the problem.

So, what should OP do? What should we all do? We'd all like to be hitting like top ATP players.

It's a tips and instructions forum. We're interested in problems only if they come with solutions.

Knowing what to do and what not to do comes first before learning how to do it. When >60% of active tennis players use a Waiter Tray, first priority is broader understanding. Since they don't know that their WT technique is not the best known technique - do you see that as an issue?

There's stroke analysis and communication, that's what I'm working on. For teaching tennis strokes there are many more instructors, because it pays, and large numbers of instructional videos. Your complaint about learning tennis strokes should not be directed to an analysist whose overwhelmed trying to make sense of the presented and observable information. First though, there is a problem with what is true about tennis strokes. As long as what's true is in shambles for the large majority of players and instructors, that is the highest priority. A scientific standard hasn't emerged except at the highest levels and it's not communicating down from there.

The 'edge on to the ball' vs 'face the sky' racket orientation is an extremely useful checkpoint. It allows everyone to analyze the serve for WT in less than one second. You can do it by eye for your serving opponent! But on this forum, those words have been re-purposed to ambiguity and this great checkpoint is no more on the forum. So for the greatest ignorance in tennis strokes - that the high level serve uses internal shoulder rotation significantly for racket head speed - where are we with the majority of tennis players? [2022 is 27 years after ISR was confirmed by tennis researchers.] Very few can see or use the crystal clear serve checkpoint. Few players have any idea of how the serve works. Hardly anybody understands or acknowledges the serving issue, including instructors.

And you want a free 100 word paragraph from an analysist that would replace 1,000,000 paid tennis instructors.

(If anyone has heard an estimate of the worldwide number of tennis instructors, please post the link. )

 

[Happi]

 

[yossarian]

It's great that you do not like how people use that phrase with some good reasons and that we can all tell that the OP doesn't serve like a professional player, but that doesn't tell anyone how they should go about fixing it. I absolutely get the fun of doing research and, it may be helpful in designing proper drills and diagnostics, but we'd all be more interested in knowing how you'd fix the problem.

So, what should OP do? What should we all do? We'd all like to be hitting like top ATP players.

It's a tips and instructions forum. We're interested in problems only if they come with solutions.

I’ve been down this road before with him. Turns out it’s circular

don’t waste your time

 

[yegreatone]

@Happi say more?

 

[SV10is]

Knowing what to do and what not to do comes first before learning how to do it.

First of all, that's obviously false. Manifestly, the thousands of high level players who preform the service motion properly and the instructors and coaches who designed drills to lead them down that path have had absolutely no use for your research. It's an open question whether that knowledge may help accelerate the process and guide instructions. Hypothetically, it might be useful, but it's definitely not a necessity.

When >60% of active tennis players use a Waiter Tray, first priority is broader understanding.

No. Their priority is acquiring the right skill.

And you want a free 100 word paragraph from an analyst that would replace 1,000,000 paid tennis instructors.

No. I asked for any advice on your part. Anything that resembles a proper drill to eliminate the problem you see would do. And that would not be an attempt to replace instructors... Tips, tricks and drills are poor substitutes for having an expert help you practice and provide immediate feed back and correction.

You might not have noticed, but the premise of this entire sub-forum is precisely answering the question I asked you. Everyone is here sharing tips, tricks, and drills for free. Yet, many people on here still pay for lessons from time to time. Amazing, isn't it?

 

[SV10is]

I’ve been down this road before with him. Turns out it’s circular. Don’t waste your time.

It would seem that it is indeed a waste of time to ask him anything useful.

 

[yossarian]

It would seem that it is indeed a waste of time to ask him anything useful.

Chas has a brain that operates like an engineer. Which is why he excels at analysis. However, he is seemingly incapable of recognizing that not everyone learns or processes information in the same way that he does. I’ve reiterated time and time again that people a) are not consciously thinking about biomechanics during movement, b) that plenty of people are able to learn to serve properly without any knowledge of what they are doing on a biomechanical level and c) that biomechanical data has no practical meaning unless you can translate the information into an easily digestible cue (I.e. step on the gas rather than plantarflex your talocrurual joint)

I’ve also asked if his biomechanI s expertise has allowed him to develop a high level serve. Unsurprisingly he has been hesitant to answer

don’t even ask about the time he was obsessed over Federer “looking through his racquet strings“ to see the ball at contact

 

[Happi]

@Happi say more?

Dont worry too much about open racquet face on take back, like in the video I posted a lot of world class players did that.

Also be aware that serve motion is very individual, and you dont even see 2 pros with exactly the same motion. So dont worry too much about looks.

IMO the most important thing is to have very very relaxed arm motion. Like a spagetti arm.

 

[SV10is]

Chas has a brain that operates like an engineer. Which is why he excels at analysis. However, he is seemingly incapable of recognizing that not everyone learns or processes information in the same way that he does. I’ve reiterated time and time again that people a) are not consciously thinking about biomechanics during movement, b) that plenty of people are able to learn to serve properly without any knowledge of what they are doing on a biomechanical level and c) that biomechanical data has no practical meaning unless you can translate the information into an easily digestible cue (I.e. step on the gas rather than plantarflex your talocrurual joint)

I’ve also asked if his biomechanI s expertise has allowed him to develop a high level serve. Unsurprisingly he has been hesitant to answer

don’t even ask about the time he was obsessed over Federer “looking through his racquet strings“ to see the ball at contact

So, he doesn't think like an engineer: engineers apply scientific knowledge and field expertise to solve practical problems. An engineer that can't do that isn't an engineer, but a very expensive liability.

And I am more than inclined to dive into detailed analysis. I'm a PhD candidate in economics and specialize in econometrics: my whole day is spent on nuances and details. However, at the end of the day, that has to be part of a discussion about what to do -- the end goal always is to provide actionable knowledge to various decision makers.

Dude's on a tips and instructions forum providing neither tips, nor instructions while insulting others who do -- and he somehow feels smart about it.

 

[Pumpkin]

The thing that stuck out to me was the landing. You look like a gymnast dismounting from an apparatus . You land on your left foot and then hop to gain balance. It takes an age for the right foot to come down and then it comes down behind you! By the time you finish this routine you would have a lot of trouble retrieving a return.

The jump you are doing is adding zero power to the serve and in fact, it is detracting from it. You are just jumping up in the air for the sake of it. It's not an extension of correct technique.

I agree withe the sentiments of SV10is. Forget about jumping until you have good technique. After that, the jump will come naturally and add power and you will land properly.

 

[yegreatone]

Thanks @Pumpkin - while I hear you. I do disagree that the "jump" does not add power. I feel like I get way more power, and with less strain on my arm (basically just feels like it slingshots). Re. the right foot, I though that's how it's supposed to happen. In any event, I will give moderating it a bit a whirl.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Go full screen. Serve impact is around 2:15. Video starts about 2:08. Playback at low speed lets you notice things. Use Youtube playback speed 0.25x (click YT gear icon).

To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

When the arm is up, look at the elbow shadows suddenly rotate from ISR. The shadows are a direct indicator of ISR. The speed and angular rotation of ISR determines the quality of the high level serve.

Many high speed cameras will should this if
1) the motion blur is small because the sunlight is bright
2) the sunlight is at a favorable angle to show shadows
3) the camera is placed so that the resulting video resembles the video above.

Why screw around, just video the ISR directly?

Safety. Search Ellenbecker information on the angle of the upper to reduce the risk of shoulder impingement during the serve. Most ATP servers are examples of good practice for the upper arm angle to the shoulder joint that Ellenbecker recommends. See serve video above for the recommended angle of the upper arm relative to the line between the 2 shoulders.

Forum Search: Ellenbecker shoulder impingement
Member: Chas Tennis

 

[yossarian]

Bud are you incapable of having a normal human conversation

 

[Shroud]

Hey folks - been working on my serve for about 1.5 yrs. Feel like I am getting good leg drive and racquet drop, but in videos it looks like my racquet face is opening too soon. I do not think the grip is the issue (I hold between bevels 1/2); so not really sure where to go from here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jm1980]

Chas has a brain that operates like an engineer. Which is why he excels at analysis. However, he is seemingly incapable of recognizing that not everyone learns or processes information in the same way that he does. I’ve reiterated time and time again that people a) are not consciously thinking about biomechanics during movement, b) that plenty of people are able to learn to serve properly without any knowledge of what they are doing on a biomechanical level and c) that biomechanical data has no practical meaning unless you can translate the information into an easily digestible cue (I.e. step on the gas rather than plantarflex your talocrurual joint)

I’ve also asked if his biomechanI s expertise has allowed him to develop a high level serve. Unsurprisingly he has been hesitant to answer

don’t even ask about the time he was obsessed over Federer “looking through his racquet strings“ to see the ball at contact

The bolded are very important things to keep in mind.

High level servers are not conscious of what they are doing on a biomechanical level because the important parts of a serve are executed in a fraction of a second. In fact, one could argue obsessing over these details is detrimental to hitting a proper, biomechanically sound serve

 

[Pumpkin]

Thanks @Pumpkin - while I hear you. I do disagree that the "jump" does not add power. I feel like I get way more power, and with less strain on my arm (basically just feels like it slingshots). Re. the right foot, I though that's how it's supposed to happen. In any event, I will give moderating it a bit a whirl.

The right foot should come down ahead of the left and you shouldn't be hopping on the left foot.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Hammer that Serve is an instruction video to improve the Waiter's Tray technique. Pat Dougherty refers also to the "advanced serve." (referred to as the 'high level serve' on the forum) I did not listen carefully and misunderstood that video for a year or two.

Maybe that is the only instructional video that attempts to improve the Waiter's Tray technique. ? I don't remember any other video that claims to do that. OP, you are in the Tennis Serve Nuthouse.

The WT sets the side-to-side angle on the racket face (azimuth) before the forward swing and then closes the racket face continuously as it moves forward to impact. It looks as if the OP tilts his racket face some to encourage hitting a slice. That's why the racket face 'faces the sky' at one point. Very simple and logical. But the high level serve does not do that, the side-to-side racket face angle changes as the racket head moves to impact - that's the added ISR for racket head speed and control.

To learn what is true look at videos yourself.

 

[Shroud]

Hammer that Serve is an instruction video to improve the Waiter's Tray technique. Pat Dougherty refers also to the "advanced serve." (referred to as the 'high level serve' on the forum) I did not listen carefully and misunderstood that video for a year or two.

Maybe that is the only instructional video that attempts to improve the Waiter's Tray technique. ? I don't remember any other video that claims to do that. OP, you are in the Tennis Serve Nuthouse.

The WT sets the side-to-side angle on the racket face before the forward swing and then closes the racket face continuously as it moves forward to impact. That's why the racket face 'faces the sky' at one point. Very simple and logical. But the high level serve does not do that, the side-to-side racket face angle changes as the racket head moves to impact - that's the added ISR for racket head speed and control.

To learn what is true look at videos yourself.

Yeah that vid needs to be watched carefully. 1st part is waiter tray but after that you are right its high level. Feel tennis also has a vid on wt and how to fix

 

[Chas Tennis]

Yeah that vid needs to be watched carefully. 1st part is waiter tray but after that you are right its high level. Feel tennis also has a vid on wt and how to fix

"1st part is waiter tray but after that you are right its high level." I did not say that.

I found that it switched back and forth, sometimes quickly, with a little "advanced serve" here and there. The instruction was about the Waiter's Tray and Pat Dougherty explains that early. He referred to the WT stroke as 'hammer that serve'. I rediscovered it correctly after a year or two.

Van der Meer referred to the WT technique as Waitress Serve I believe. There are other names.

It's the WT that is the most common technique of active tennis players by far. I believe that it is not possible with a WT to hit a kick serve, but my friend, he could hit a nasty slice serve.

This situation - when it comes to true-false information - I refer to as the Tennis Serve Nuthouse. Most studied tennis stroke........

 

[yegreatone]

I’m confused. Are you saying that I have a WT technique or not. My racquet is not pointed toward the sky.

@Pumpkin I think every pro lands on their left foot first.

 

[yossarian]

I’m confused. Are you saying that I have a WT technique or not. My racquet is not pointed toward the sky.

@Pumpkin I think every pro lands on their left foot first.

Waiters tray technique refers to the racquet face open toward the sky during early cocking. Chas seems to be under the impression that if the racquet face opens at any time toward the sky it’s indicative of WT error.

This is incorrect going by literally how every other expert has defined it

Chas refuses to recognize this when it is pointed out to him

ironically, despite how much Chas goes on an on about speaking in defined terms, he has made up his own. See this and “uppermost body turn“
Chas refuses to recognize this when it is pointed out to him

 

[Pumpkin]

I’m confused. Are you saying that I have a WT technique or not. My racquet is not pointed toward the sky.

@Pumpkin I think every pro lands on their left foot first.

Becker and possibly Cash landed on their right foot but I wasn't disputing that. You should land on your left and the right should come down in front of the left. Your right foot comes down behind your left, and when you land on your left you hop and land again on the left. Those are the two things that need correcting.

 

[yegreatone]

Becker and possibly Cash landed on their right foot but I wasn't disputing that. You should land on your left and the right should come down in front of the left. Your right foot comes down behind your left, and when you land on your left you hop and land again on the left. Those are the two things that need correcting.

@Pumpkin makes sense - thanks!

 

[Pumpkin]

I really implore you to stop jumping until you've built a solid foundation. You are like a person trying to do a wheelie before you can ride a bike. If you keep doing it you will be at high risk of injuring your left knee and you won't be able to train.

 

[yegreatone]

@Pumpkin Appreciate it, but I can hit a serve without jumping. So I do think I am at a point where I am trying to get more power, and using my shoulder less. See here:

 

[Morch Us]

@yegreatone how tight are you holding the racquet? I assume too tight.... I cannot think of any other reason your racquet stops moving to right abruptly during racquet drop finishing stage (just before moving up).

With enough relaxed grip the racquet head should naturally move more right in this phase. You want to think of it as a pull and release, instead of as a hold and hit. I would suggest practicing continous rotation motions using a rope with weight at the end, or use a soccer sock with a tennis ball inside. That should fix your issue, since you already have a pronation motion. Search for "serve master" and you will see how to use this for practicing pull and release.

 

[yegreatone]

So.... resurrecting this thread. Basically, been trying all the tips in here .... and nothing I do can help with the issue in the pic above, where basically my raquet is coming at the ball from an angle (but still on edge).

Really at a loss and not sure what else to do. I'm getting some pretty good power/spin .... but just not sure how big a deal this is or why it is happening ...

 

[yegreatone]

Actually ... looking at some recent videos .. might be getting a bit better? This was with my consciously trying to keep the non-hitting side of the raquet pointed to the deuce side.