Suggestion for the Shot Clock...

[Robert F]

To take the power and subjectivity out of the umpire's chair, I suggest the following to give the players the control of the match tempo in regards to the Shot Clock.

Once a point ends, whichever player steps into position (server or receiver) the clock starts for the other player to get ready. Give the other player 15 seconds after the original player takes their position.

This way if the crowd is cheering loudly no one steps up to the plate until it cools off, or if they played a long agonizing point they might wait to take their spots (or the fitter player might get on the sport right away to the detriment of the other player). With aces, the server might just step over and then the receiver only has 15 seconds to get back in place--no need to towel off and walk to the back wall. Players might become more selective when to go to the towel.

Hence, either player could get a warning and possible penalty for not being ready after the first player takes their spot.

 

[Lleytonstation]

To take the power and subjectivity out of the umpire's chair, I suggest the following to give the players the control of the match tempo in regards to the Shot Clock.

Once a point ends, whichever player steps into position (server or receiver) the clock starts for the other player to get ready. Give the other player 15 seconds after the original player takes their position.

This way if the crowd is cheering loudly no one steps up to the plate until it cools off, or if they played a long agonizing point they might wait to take their spots (or the fitter player might get on the sport right away to the detriment of the other player). With aces, the server might just step over and then the receiver only has 15 seconds to get back in place--no need to towel off and walk to the back wall. Players might become more selective when to go to the towel.

Hence, either player could get a warning and possible penalty for not being ready after the first player takes their spot.

Or people against Rafa would step right into position everytime. So would Fed. That would create problems.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Actually the shot clock rules clearly state that the shot clock should be started the moment the previous point ends, so ATP is systematically violating their own policy when enforcing the rule.

 

[Robert F]

Yes, that is partly the idea. Many have complained why some of the bigger guns get away with long breaks. Let the other player have some control in the situation. I suggest 15 seconds, but 20 might be more reasonable.

 

[Shaolin]

Actually the shot clock rules clearly state that the shot clock should be started the moment the previous point ends, so ATP is systematically violating their own policy when enforcing the rule.

I believe it is to be started immediately after the umpire calls the score not after the point ends.

 

[SumYungGai]

I say just make it 30 secs from the end of the previous point not matter what. Clock can be going while the umpire announces the score. Subjectivity gone.

 

[Centrius]

They should get rid off it.

 

[victorcruz]

Yes, that is partly the idea. Many have complained why some of the bigger guns get away with long breaks. Let the other player have some control in the situation. I suggest 15 seconds, but 20 might be more reasonable.

Sounds like the ideas of someone that has never left the basement. Try playing sports buddy. And get back to us about how everyone should be able to play 15 seconds after every point.

 

[Technology Ruined Tennis]

There would be no issue If the delicate geniuses could handle crowd noise throughout the match like every other athlete.

 

[The Blond Blur]

To take the power and subjectivity out of the umpire's chair, I suggest the following to give the players the control of the match tempo in regards to the Shot Clock.

Once a point ends, whichever player steps into position (server or receiver) the clock starts for the other player to get ready. Give the other player 15 seconds after the original player takes their position.

This way if the crowd is cheering loudly no one steps up to the plate until it cools off, or if they played a long agonizing point they might wait to take their spots (or the fitter player might get on the sport right away to the detriment of the other player). With aces, the server might just step over and then the receiver only has 15 seconds to get back in place--no need to towel off and walk to the back wall. Players might become more selective when to go to the towel.

Hence, either player could get a warning and possible penalty for not being ready after the first player takes their spot.

That would create even more problems. You're supposed to play at the speed of the server any way.

 

[Lleytonstation]

I say just make it 30 secs from the end of the previous point not matter what. Clock can be going while the umpire announces the score. Subjectivity gone.

This is the answer. Simply 30 seconds regardless of anything just as soon as the point ends.

 

[ADuck]

We know what the intention of your suggestion is.

 

[LETitBE]

after hard points watch how many times nadal faults

is it fatigue or tactical to get a breather

he is a slimey sh#t

 

[Rafa24]

Actually the shot clock rules clearly state that the shot clock should be started the moment the previous point ends, so ATP is systematically violating their own policy when enforcing the rule.

i thought the rule was the close was started after announcing the score.

 

[Chadalina]

i thought the rule was the close was started after announcing the score.

Yep, thats what krygios had issues with, ump was calling the score immediately on his serve, while waiting on the opponents.

The guy tonight was very slow, gave extra 5-6 secs. I guess it makes the crowd cheer

 

[ChaelAZ]

The match of Cilic vs Nadal, the ump had the shot clock going immediately after the point ended and did not wait for crowds noise as most umps do with discretion. Nadal called once and Cilic called once. No big deal so I guess Nad haters are going to have to find another useless thing to complain about.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I believe it is to be started immediately after the umpire calls the score not after the point ends.

According to the ATP rules it is to be started immediately after the point ends. There is no connection between calling the score and the starting of the shot clock.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

The match of Cilic vs Nadal, the ump had the shot clock going immediately after the point ended and did not wait for crowds noise as most umps do with discretion. Nadal called once and Cilic called once. No big deal so I guess Nad haters are going to have to find another useless thing to complain about.

Good thing that Cilic is one of the slower players on tour and also that Nadal has profited most from this rule when it mattered, so I guess the defenders of that gamesmanship and clear violation of the rules will have to find consolation of such examples to excuse the long standing breaking of the rules and clear advantage for Nadal.

 

[Rabin]

People are so desperate to still give Rafa a hard time over the time he takes, they were so hoping the shot clock would give him trouble. Sad to see really.

 

[blablavla]

People are so desperate to still give Rafa a hard time over the time he takes, they were so hoping the shot clock would give him trouble. Sad to see really.

It is not aimed at Nadal in particular.
He will retire sooner or later, but the problem of long and boring tennis matches will remain long after he is gone.

Point of enforcing the rule is following.
A player can choose which strategy to employ.
- let's say more risk, that yields net winners, but as well more mistakes
- running and chasing all balls till your opponent will make a mistake

The second strategy leads to long and boring matches.
Which generates issues with TV broadcasting in particular and with interest to tennis in general.

Without such strategy, a well known player easily cuts a corner, and gets more time to recover between the points, by taking the towel, bouncing the ball a gazillion of time before service, and many other tricks.
As starting the next point in a few seconds after hitting a 50 shots rally results in an increasing chance of losing the next one, for a player whose game relies on running, running, running.
While enforcing the rule will bring a bit of balance and might allow a clash of styles, together with a bit easier prediction of match time, which in combination will result in more interest for tennis, long after Nadal, Djokovic and Murray will retire.

 

[Rabin]

It is not aimed at Nadal in particular.
He will retire sooner or later, but the problem of long and boring tennis matches will remain long after he is gone.

I've seen Rafa been accused of many things, playing boring matches is a new one though, so props for that.

If people can't wait 30 seconds until a point is played then tennis probably isn't the right sport to follow for them.

 

[ADuck]

It is not aimed at Nadal in particular.
He will retire sooner or later, but the problem of long and boring tennis matches will remain long after he is gone.

Point of enforcing the rule is following.
A player can choose which strategy to employ.
- let's say more risk, that yields net winners, but as well more mistakes
- running and chasing all balls till your opponent will make a mistake

The second strategy leads to long and boring matches.
Which generates issues with TV broadcasting in particular and with interest to tennis in general.

Without such strategy, a well known player easily cuts a corner, and gets more time to recover between the points, by taking the towel, bouncing the ball a gazillion of time before service, and many other tricks.
As starting the next point in a few seconds after hitting a 50 shots rally results in an increasing chance of losing the next one, for a player whose game relies on running, running, running.
While enforcing the rule will bring a bit of balance and might allow a clash of styles, together with a bit easier prediction of match time, which in combination will result in more interest for tennis, long after Nadal, Djokovic and Murray will retire.

I don't agree. More time between points leads to higher quality tennis as both players have enough energy to play each point and thus have a more entertaining match.

 

[Shaolin]

According to the ATP rules it is to be started immediately after the point ends. There is no connection between calling the score and the starting of the shot clock.

In real life the umpire calls the score and then starts the shot clock

 

[Tennis_Hands]

In real life the umpire calls the score and then starts the shot clock

I know. The point is, when some people argue about it that it is a legit delay because the umpire HAS to call the score first that is untrue and actually against the rules. If the established practice is such that is OK, unless the practice is being used to intentionally slow down the play while foregoing the rules the ATP themselves established.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Sounds like the ideas of someone that has never left the basement. Try playing sports buddy. And get back to us about how everyone should be able to play 15 seconds after every point.

Thread says "15 seconds after one of the players steps into position", not directly since the previous point ended. Why doesn't it make sense? If one of the players is ready, the other shouldn't make him wait extra.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

... stripping 5 slam titles at each time violation ?

 

[AMGF]

The match of Cilic vs Nadal, the ump had the shot clock going immediately after the point ended and did not wait for crowds noise as most umps do with discretion. Nadal called once and Cilic called once. No big deal so I guess Nad haters are going to have to find another useless thing to complain about.

That just means that the clock works. I've timed Nadal many times when the shot clock was not enforced and he was taking 30-35sec+ routinely. Nadal can easily serve inside 25sec, he just chooses to **** his opponent (and everyone watching) and take his sweet time. That shot clock is the best new rule to happen in tennis in the last 20 years.

Next: get the players to fetch their own damn towels, they have 25sec, it's more than enough to get them themselves.

 

[Sport]

According to the ATP rules it is to be started immediately after the point ends. There is no connection between calling the score and the starting of the shot clock.

According to the ATP rules, the point ends only when the umpire calls the score adding a new point. No umpire call, no new point.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

According to the ATP rules, the point ends only when the umpire calls the score adding a new point. No umpire call, no new point.

That would be incorrect. Post the rule that states what you say.

 

[Tshooter]

A thread designed to smoke out Kyrgios’s screen name.

 

[Tshooter]

... stripping 5 slam titles at each time violation ?

But only taken from any F.O. titles a player may have. An easy to understand, transparent and across the board fair to all players rule.

 

[Robert F]

My point is to give the players some flexibility. Doesn't have to be 15 seconds, that could be field tested. Again, it is after one of the players steps up to the plate. If they have a gasser of a point, both guys can go towel off and get a sponge bath. But on the other hand, if one guy is gassed due to poor conditioning, the other guy can step up to the plate and then start the clock.

Hope is to take away some of the discretion from the umpires, I'd be fine with a consistent use of the current rule too.
Hope is to keep matches moving at a reasonable rate while giving some flexibility for crowd applause, big points, long points etc.

 

[Shaolin]

My suggestion for shot clock: Get rid of it and tell the umpires to do their job.

 

[Dartagnan64]

My suggestion for shot clock: Get rid of it and tell the umpires to do their job.

Shot clock should be for the players so they know how much time they have. Its also objective and takes away accusations of favoritism and umpires running faster clocks for certain players. But it should be enforced. And I watched the Nadal match last night and when he did finally go past his allotted time, he got a warning. So I saw no indication of umpires not "doing their job".

 

[octobrina10]

Yep, thats what krygios had issues with, ump was calling the score immediately on his serve, while waiting on the opponents.

The guy tonight was very slow, gave extra 5-6 secs. I guess it makes the crowd cheer

In Cinicinnati 2019, Kyrgios accused the chair umpire of rushing his service routine by starting the service clock early.
Listen to the video:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1161952480986632192

 

[Shaolin]

Shot clock should be for the players so they know how much time they have. Its also objective and takes away accusations of favoritism and umpires running faster clocks for certain players. But it should be enforced. And I watched the Nadal match last night and when he did finally go past his allotted time, he got a warning. So I saw no indication of umpires not "doing their job".

I wasn't implying they weren't doing their job with the shot clock in usage. They don't do their job without the shot clock.

The fact of the matter is that pro tennis was fine for decades without the shot clock. Then Nadal came along with his time wasting and umpires scared to call time violations on him. So they have a whole shot clock system set up just because he has the umpires scared. Pretty sad.

 

[wangs78]

30 seconds is too long. That means on most points (no long rally and no crazy crowd noise), Rafa and Novak can stil bounce the ball 20 times. No no no. 20 seconds. Starting at the end of the last point with umpire having the ability to overrule if the previous rally was very long.

I also suggest that starting at 15 seconds a loud alarm/horn starts going off, progressively louder with each second to further penalize players who take too long.

 

[octobrina10]

That would be incorrect. Post the rule that states what you say.

¤¤ A serve clock and a warm-up clock will be implemented at the 2018 US Open in a joint initiative aimed at increasing the pace of play.
Serve Clock
Players will have 25 seconds to begin their service motion, although a chair umpire will have the ability and discretion to pause the clock. They will have the ability to resume the clock from the same time or reset the clock to 25 seconds.
During a game, this 25-second clock will begin once the chair umpire has announced the score following the previous point..¤¤

https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2018-07-11/shot_clock_warmup_clock_to_be_implemented_at_2018_us_open.html

 

[beard]

Actually the shot clock rules clearly state that the shot clock should be started the moment the previous point ends, so ATP is systematically violating their own policy when enforcing the rule.

Apparently everyone thinks you are wrong. Can you give us link that show that rule or please stop repeating that nonsense?

 

[Tennis_Hands]

¤¤ A serve clock and a warm-up clock will be implemented at the 2018 US Open in a joint initiative aimed at increasing the pace of play.
Serve Clock
Players will have 25 seconds to begin their service motion, although a chair umpire will have the ability and discretion to pause the clock. They will have the ability to resume the clock from the same time or reset the clock to 25 seconds.
During a game, this 25-second clock will begin once the chair umpire has announced the score following the previous point..¤¤

https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2018-07-11/shot_clock_warmup_clock_to_be_implemented_at_2018_us_open.html

Are you familiar with the ATP rulebook, or are you going to quote me articles from a site?

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Apparently everyone thinks you are wrong. Can you give us link that show that rule or please stop repeating that nonsense?

There was a thread where many people asked about it and I provided the precise information, quoting the exact place and page of the ATP rule book that says what I here say. Besides, I have too much fun watching the trolls foam at the mouth displaying their ignorance. I am not obliged to provide you with any information.

 

[beard]

There was a thread where many people asked about it and I provided the precise information, quoting the exact place and page of the ATP rule book that says what I here say. Besides, I have too much fun watching the trolls foam at the mouth displaying their ignorance. I am not obliged to provide you with any information.

So, you have nothing to provide as proof that you are right and everyone else are wrong? I expected that...

 

[Tennis_Hands]

So, you have nothing to provide as proof that you are right and everyone else are wrong? I expected that...

I have and I did. I just have more fun watching people that presumably know that there is nothing wrong with how the rules are applied, not knowing what rules are applicable in the first place. And they do make assurances that they don't care anyways.

You see, none of you has already quoted the ATP rulebook to show me that what you insist to be the case is true, and like you said, they are "almost everyone", so if you share the workload it should be easy peasy to prove me wrong.

Sport for example has been off for a couple of hours since I challenged him to provide the data. He is probably hard on reading that ATP rulebook, since he hasn't posted in this thread since then.

 

[beard]

I have and I did. I just have more fun watching people that presumably know that there is nothing wrong with how the rules are applied, not knowing what rules are applicable in the first place. And they do make assurances that they don't care anyways.

I guess you know better than all those referees and tennis officials who all wrongly use shot clock... Great...

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I guess you know better than all those referees and tennis officials who all wrongly use shot clock... Great...

I know for a fact that they don't follow their own rules, yes.

 

[octobrina10]

Are you familiar with the ATP rulebook, or are you going to quote me articles from a site?

GS tournaments don't use the ATP Rulebook.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

GS tournaments don't use the ATP Rulebook.

Everyone else does.

BTW, did you find the rule in the ATP rulebook already?

 

[Blade0324]

I'm just tired of hearing people ***** about the shot clock, pace of play etc. It is what it is, get over it.

 

[tacou]

This is a needlessly complex idea that creates many more problems than it solves.

 

[onehandbh]

The NBA should get rid of the shot clock and increase the amount of time a player can camp out under the basket to 1 minute and make all dunks worth 7 pts.