Surprising Mod

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
So I modded all 4 of my RF97's to match spec wise.............adding lead to the buttcap to get the balance and static weights pretty much the same, but there was one frame that still felt cumbersome as if it had a much higher swing weight. I didn't measure the swing weight to compare, but instead I added 3 grams of lead just below the throat under the grip. The difference was amazing. I mean a HUGE difference with such a small amount of lead.

My typical mods have always been buttcap, 12, 3 or 9. So if you have a sluggish frame and you've tried all the typical mods, you may want to try adding lead just below the throat under the grip.
 

Anton

Legend
I also recently found that placing lead at the top of the grip has a an effect on swing dynamic in a way that placing lead elsewhere does not.

I have it on both my PT2.0 and BP Pro, it really helps with getting racket to lag easily.

With PB Pro I was literally in the middle of a set, having just popped strings on Pro Tour and couldn't feel my stroke, the load up was just too vague. Slapped 1.5grams right above the top of the grip on the change over and was instantly at home.
 
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asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I also recently found that placing lead at the top of the grip has a an effect on swing dynamic in a way that placing lead elsewhere does not.

I have it on both my PT2.0 and BP Pro, it really helps with getting racket to lag easily.

With PB Pro I was literally in the middle of a set, having just popped strings on Pro Tour and couldn't feel my stroke, the load up was just too vague. Slapped 1.5grams right above the top of the grip on the change over and was instantly at home.

Yeah, it's a place i've never placed lead in all my years of modding. I could have salvaged many frames that I got rid off. That location is one of the 3 axis points on a racquet I believe.
 

dcheung

Rookie
Oh yes, I did this to the Asian BLX90 which has a lower swing weight and putting the lead at the v-throat or lower position under the grip didn't make much difference to me, the adding of lead there really enhance the stability and solid feel.
 

Anton

Legend
It's true - very important yet easy mod. There is tons of info, on these boards, regarding that kind of mod and what does it affects. Search for MgR/I.
Beware: Once you go down that rabbit hole, there's no way back!

Nuh, no need to, I know when it swings right and I know how to fix it if it doesn't.

Thats all that matters.
 

gazz1

Semi-Pro
I can never quite understand the impact of adding a few grams of weight at the bottom of the racket.
I can see the impact by measuring the balance, but then when I play I place my hand, which weighs several hundred grams, in exactly the same location on the racket - Isn't that the same effect as adding at least some weight to the lower handle?

I can notice weight added at the top of the handle - as Trav has explained in detail on these threads, it does make the racket come around faster.
 
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BlueB

Legend
He was an extremists and a bit of a loose screw. Promoted adding huge amounts of weight and even obsessed about the shape of lead, without really understanding the math/physics behind it...
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
I can never quite understand the impact of adding a few grams of weight at the bottom of the racket.
I can see the impact by measuring the balance, but then when I play I place my hand, which weighs several hundred grams, in exactly the same location on the racket - Isn't that the same effect as adding at least some weight to the lower handle?

I can notice weight added at the top of the handle - as Trav has explained in detail on these threads, it does make the racket come around faster.
The effect of weight added to the butt becomes important if you have a 2hb. Added mass there will slow down how fast the racquet comes around on your 2hb (because the pendulum pivot point is halfway up the handle, where the left wrist joint is), without affecting how fast the racquet comes around on the forehand (as the wrist pivot point is even with the butt end on a fh).
 

polksio

Semi-Pro
So I modded all 4 of my RF97's to match spec wise.............[...] I didn't measure the swing weight to compare [...]
051b7d93394fc94c082f1801bc4ccfb2.jpg
 

Crashbaby

Semi-Pro
The effect of weight added to the butt becomes important if you have a 2hb. Added mass there will slow down how fast the racquet comes around on your 2hb (because the pendulum pivot point is halfway up the handle, where the left wrist joint is), without affecting how fast the racquet comes around on the forehand (as the wrist pivot point is even with the butt end on a fh).
Does the above have the same effect on the one handed backhand?
 

LocNetMonster

Professional
Seen a few racquets modded like this. Never thought about trying it myself until now. Just tried it on Wilson Brave, PCT and Radical MP. The effect of the 11grams on Radical, 8 inches from bottom tip, seemingly had the most noticeable in a positive way with shadow swings. Barely any change to overall balance, but better acceleration out of a wrist lag. The same weight on the Brave and PCT, at the same location, made the swing feel a bit more sluggish. Tried it on the Brave down an inch and half and it felt good. The PCT felt better without the weight. Looking forward to see how this affects striking the ball when it warms up again here.
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
Many old 80’s and 90’s racquets came with a good 10g lead or a plastic collar at the top of the handle. Djokovic had a fair bit of lead at the top of his handle too. Certainly has an effect.
 

polksio

Semi-Pro
The effect of weight added to the butt becomes important if you have a 2hb. Added mass there will slow down how fast the racquet comes around on your 2hb (because the pendulum pivot point is halfway up the handle, where the left wrist joint is), without affecting how fast the racquet comes around on the forehand (as the wrist pivot point is even with the butt end on a fh).
Mass at 10cm in front of the center of rotation speeds it up and mass 10cm behind (which only happens in the two hander) slows it down?
Slowing down the racket can be useful in the case of the two hander because the racket essentially becomes 60 inches and gets yanked around too easily I guess?
How do you measure this "secondary MGR/I" ? Should one aim for matching both MGR/Is?
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
We are all aware that today it's so common for racquets to be so out of spec and that even frames with the same measured specs can arrive at those same specs with mods in completely different locations, even when the racquets at their base (start) point are seemingly exact.

How many of us have had frames where the measured specs were exactly the same but the racquets played completely different.

Quality control is so bad that we may need to begin modding the frames in unconventional methods. Not only weight in the standard buttcap, 3/9/12/throat locations, but perhaps even specific locations along the pallet under the grip.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Mass at 10cm in front of the center of rotation speeds it up and mass 10cm behind (which only happens in the two hander) slows it down?
Slowing down the racket can be useful in the case of the two hander because the racket essentially becomes 60 inches and gets yanked around too easily I guess?
How do you measure this "secondary MGR/I" ? Should one aim for matching both MGR/Is?
I'd just mod away and keep trying to see what works without analyzing the science. Once the two frames swing the same leave it alone. If you want to focus on the science, maybe use that as a baseline and that's it. I don't think I trust that frames i measure are completely exact even if my tools say so. It's all in the swing test.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I can never quite understand the impact of adding a few grams of weight at the bottom of the racket.
I can see the impact by measuring the balance, but then when I play I place my hand, which weighs several hundred grams, in exactly the same location on the racket - Isn't that the same effect as adding at least some weight to the lower handle?

I can notice weight added at the top of the handle - as Trav has explained in detail on these threads, it does make the racket come around faster.
This is funny. Based on your perspective which I don't logically get, If you added weight at the bottom of the frame and then held the frame to swing the racquet, then you have the total of the added weight of the lead AND the weight of your hand in your example. That's TWO sources of weight versus 1.

Use the suggested mods as a baseline, try different scenarios and see which one you play best with. Sometimes over analyzing something is not only confusing but a complete waste of time. It's all about how you play with the racquet and how it swings for you after modding.
 

Wheelz

Hall of Fame
I'd just mod away and keep trying to see what works without analyzing the science. Once the two frames swing the same leave it alone. If you want to focus on the science, maybe use that as a baseline and that's it. I don't think I trust that frames i measure are completely exact even if my tools say so. It's all in the swing test.
When do you feel you need at 1 vs 20 ? I guess thats what Im wondering and @polksio
 

polksio

Semi-Pro
I'd just mod away and keep trying to see what works without analyzing the science. Once the two frames swing the same leave it alone. If you want to focus on the science, maybe use that as a baseline and that's it. I don't think I trust that frames i measure are completely exact even if my tools say so. It's all in the swing test.
There's always gonna be a trial and error in all cases but i still wanna know the formula for it precisely so i can see if the science matches the feel so i know if i can rely on it from then on or not
 

BlueB

Legend
There's always gonna be a trial and error in all cases but i still wanna know the formula for it precisely so i can see if the science matches the feel so i know if i can rely on it from then on or not
MgR/I formula:
W(kg) × 980.5 x Balance(cm) / SW

Trav, please correct if I have scrwd this up.
 

Elcer

New User
So I modded all 4 of my RF97's to match spec wise.............adding lead to the buttcap to get the balance and static weights pretty much the same, but there was one frame that still felt cumbersome as if it had a much higher swing weight. I didn't measure the swing weight to compare, but instead I added 3 grams of lead just below the throat under the grip. The difference was amazing. I mean a HUGE difference with such a small amount of lead.

My typical mods have always been buttcap, 12, 3 or 9. So if you have a sluggish frame and you've tried all the typical mods, you may want to try adding lead just below the throat under the grip.

Deleted
 
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gazz1

Semi-Pro
This is funny. Based on your perspective which I don't logically get, If you added weight at the bottom of the frame and then held the frame to swing the racquet, then you have the total of the added weight of the lead AND the weight of your hand in your example. That's TWO sources of weight versus 1.

Use the suggested mods as a baseline, try different scenarios and see which one you play best with. Sometimes over analyzing something is not only confusing but a complete waste of time. It's all about how you play with the racquet and how it swings for you after modding.
It’s not hard to understand. We add a gram or two at the bottom of the racket to reach a magical MGR/I of 21.0, then wrap a great big hand, with an arm attached to it, around that finely tuned racket.
Don‘t you think that that might impact that fine tuning in some way?

We look for such precision with these calculations, meanwhile there’s this great big elephant in the room that we’re ignoring.

Happy to be wrong on this one.

And I should add that I have found Travs research very helpful as I now know how to make my racket come around faster or slower.
 
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nyta2

Legend
I can never quite understand the impact of adding a few grams of weight at the bottom of the racket.
I can see the impact by measuring the balance, but then when I play I place my hand, which weighs several hundred grams, in exactly the same location on the racket - Isn't that the same effect as adding at least some weight to the lower handle?

I can notice weight added at the top of the handle - as Trav has explained in detail on these threads, it does make the racket come around faster.
hehe, you were reading my mind...
in general, my idea of adding weight to the handle/butt, was just to use the heaviest leather grip i could find, and maybe add lead under the grip...
never tried adding weight just above the handle...
in general, been fiddling with making the rf97 more maneuverable.
@travlerajm do you have a link to your threads?
 

BlueB

Legend
hehe, you were reading my mind...
in general, my idea of adding weight to the handle/butt, was just to use the heaviest leather grip i could find, and maybe add lead under the grip...
never tried adding weight just above the handle...
in general, been fiddling with making the rf97 more maneuverable.
@travlerajm do you have a link to your threads?
Why not ditch the lead and put lightest grip instead of leather, lightest strings you can find and maybe shave the head guard a bit, if maneuverability is what you were after?
 

nyta2

Legend
Why not ditch the lead and put lightest grip instead of leather, lightest strings you can find and maybe shave the head guard a bit, if maneuverability is what you were after?
light grip, no weighting in handle... that just makes it more head heavy? to me headlight=maneuverable
Or simply buy a ProStaff?
hehe, yeah, lighter racquet (recently got the pure aero+... still higher SW, but lighter)... but keep going back to the rf97 cuz i really miss the plow through...
partners have also told me that the ball i produce with the rf97 gives them more trouble...
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
It’s not hard to understand. We add a gram or two at the bottom of the racket to reach a magical MGR/I of 21.0, then wrap a great big hand, with an arm attached to it, around that finely tuned racket.
Don‘t you think that that might impact that fine tuning in some way?

We look for such precision with these calculations, meanwhile there’s this great big elephant in the room that we’re ignoring.

Happy to be wrong on this one.

And I should add that I have found Travs research very helpful as I now know how to make my racket come around faster or slower.
I wanted to calculate the balance of my ink pen so i had to take into account the weight of the hand that's holding it to accurately get my measurements correct..........

So wait, all this time I should have been holding onto my racquet when it's placed onto my balance beam to get the correct measurements? Wow!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!
 
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gazz1

Semi-Pro
I wanted to calculate the balance of my ink pen so i had to take into account the weight of the hand that's holding it to accurately get my measurements correct..........
I'm not suggesting for a moment that you should factor in the weight of your hand in any calculation.

What I am saying is that the impact of your hand on the racket is immense and so precise calculations, impacted by 1 or 2 grams at the base of the handle, are fundamentally flawed (IMO) because of the significant influence of an external object. The racket doesn't swing itself now, does it?

Instead of searching for an MGR/I of 21.0, I tweak my racket, see what works, then tune my other rackets to the same spec.

So wait, all this time I should have been holding onto my racquet when it's placed onto my balance beam to get the correct measurements? Wow!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

Do you seriously think this is what I am implying?
 
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asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I'm not suggesting for a moment that you should factor in the weight of your hand in any calculation.

What I am saying is that the impact of your hand on the racket is immense and so precise calculations, impacted by 1 or 2 grams at the base of the handle, are fundamentally flawed (IMO) because of the significant influence of an external object. The racket doesn't swing itself now, does it?

Instead of searching for an MGR/I of 21.0, I tweak my racket, see what works, then tune my other rackets to the same spec.



Do you seriously think this is what I am implying?

At this point this entire conversation as does analysis of MGR/I or whatever is a waste of my time. Stick lead at different locations, swing the racquet and see what works. Stating the obvious in itself is pointless and then everyone opines and around and around we go. Stating the obvious just boggles me when common sense one would hope would deter any analysis or discussion to even take flight. I do hereby ban myself from the very thread I created. LOL.
 

BlueB

Legend
light grip, no weighting in handle... that just makes it more head heavy? to me headlight=maneuverable

hehe, yeah, lighter racquet (recently got the pure aero+... still higher SW, but lighter)... but keep going back to the rf97 cuz i really miss the plow through...
partners have also told me that the ball i produce with the rf97 gives them more trouble...
You missed the part about lighter strings and reducing the headguard - meaning less SW too...
 

LocNetMonster

Professional
I'd just mod away and keep trying to see what works without analyzing the science. Once the two frames swing the same leave it alone.
We look for such precision with these calculations, meanwhile there’s this great big elephant in the room that we’re ignoring
Stick lead at different locations, swing the racquet and see what works.

The ultimate goal of modding is to tailor a racquet to enhance a individual player's performance. Ultimately, because each player's swing mechanics are unique to themselves and given that there is tangible inconsistency in the manufacturing of racquets, finding what is optimal for each individual and that specific racquet is a continuous process of trial and error. I think recording the specs is fine and dandy, but ultimately meaningless for someone else unless they have the exact same body, swing mechanics and sticks that are exact in specs.
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
I am not Lou Ferigno. But I am a diehard person who trained hard for physical fitness and technique in my tennis. I concentrate on my strength, speed, agility and technique because I love to play tennis. I will do whatever it takes to get me to what I want. I play solely in singles only. Before I used to play in any competition for trophies but not now anymore because I enjoy playing matches for MONEY. I travel with my friends to different clubs on weekends just to play tennis. My setup in my racquet is my secret weapon to beat my opponents easily. I find a strong resistance to someone who have the same concept as mine. Those opponents that I beat easily are picking up and experimenting in their racquet with the concept of high static weight and high swing weight. Time will tell those guys will beat me soon. May I request you to please delete in your post about my setup because this is my secret weapon. My mistake I posted it because I thought I would like to share my experience. I appreciate it very much if you could delete it for me. Thank you. I do not know about you. Maybe you like a light racquet just like some women or grandma do.
Yeah ask for a favor with an insult. Hey Lou I love you in green! :love:
 
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