Swiatek the truest "ATP style" player in WTA?

[beltsman]

People throw around terms like "ATP forehand" and such, but I think it's the FH and also the movement + footwork to set up points. And I think Swiatek is the truest representation of this. Other WTA players have used the "flip" or "ATP" forehand before, but I've never seen a WTA player use it like she does to dominate points and set up the ad court FH power position that is the key in ATP matches. She made Pliskova, a top 10 player, look like an amateur. Mainly it had to do with her footwork and FH to set up the high percentage killshots.

Thoughts on Swiatek?

 

[Dolgopolov85]

People throw around terms like "ATP forehand" and such, but I think it's the FH and also the movement + footwork to set up points. And I think Swiatek is the truest representation of this. Other WTA players have used the "flip" or "ATP" forehand before, but I've never seen a WTA player use it like she does to dominate points and set up the ad court FH power position that is the key in ATP matches. She made Pliskova, a top 10 player, look like an amateur. Mainly it had to do with her footwork and FH to set up the high percentage killshots.

Thoughts on Swiatek?

I'd say specifically she is like the women's Nadal. She uses topspin on clay in the same way as he does - both to kick it up and to force deep balls back in court. A combination which gets intensely uncomfortable for the opponent. She's able to run through opponents when she hits that groove - as she did last year at RG or in the final yesterday - more so because the women are not used to this style of play. Which is both aggressive but has a lot of shot tolerance. When faced with uncomfortable shots, she does enough to stay on in the point rather than going for a wild winner and conceding the point which is what the women are more wont to do.

Yes, using her feet to move around to where a big forehand was available. Especially in the backhand corner spot from where you can go both inside in or inside out. That particular tactic is as old as Graf/Lendl but Swiatek combines that with a modern topspin based game. And her underrated backhand. There was a point in the first set where Pliskova was applying pressure on her backhand. Again, Swiatek just weathered the storm and turned tables by going for a DTL BH winner herself. This more strategic approach to tennis is new on the women's side and they are going to take time to sort her out. And in the meantime, if she improves her serve even a little, she will get harder to beat. That's her one slight weakness. It's not a bad serve (at least on clay, that second delivery is going to take a beating on hard court) but it's definitely not a strength.

 

[dapchai]

I'd say specifically she is like the women's Nadal. She uses topspin on clay in the same way as he does - both to kick it up and to force deep balls back in court. A combination which gets intensely uncomfortable for the opponent. She's able to run through opponents when she hits that groove - as she did last year at RG or in the final yesterday - more so because the women are not used to this style of play. Which is both aggressive but has a lot of shot tolerance. When faced with uncomfortable shots, she does enough to stay on in the point rather than going for a wild winner and conceding the point which is what the women are more wont to do.

Yes, using her feet to move around to where a big forehand was available. Especially in the backhand corner spot from where you can go both inside in or inside out. That particular tactic is as old as Graf/Lendl but Swiatek combines that with a modern topspin based game. And her underrated backhand. There was a point in the first set where Pliskova was applying pressure on her backhand. Again, Swiatek just weathered the storm and turned tables by going for a DTL BH winner herself. This more strategic approach to tennis is new on the women's side and they are going to take time to sort her out. And in the meantime, if she improves her serve even a little, she will get harder to beat. That's her one slight weakness. It's not a bad serve (at least on clay, that second delivery is going to take a beating on hard court) but it's definitely not a strength.

No wonder she's the women's Nadal. The girl had trained at the Rafa Nadal Academy for a while before becoming the player we are watching today. Absolutely killer FH. That almost single-handedly won her last year RG.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

No wonder she's the women's Nadal. The girl had trained at the Rafa Nadal Academy for a while before becoming the player we are watching today. Absolutely killer FH. That almost single-handedly won her last year RG.

Had no idea about that. Totally makes sense. The technique isn't so ATP and sometimes she gets too open stance and swings without enough wingspan on short balls like a Graf forehand. But the game style is distinctly influenced by Nadal. Wow.

 

[dapchai]

Had no idea about that. Totally makes sense. The technique isn't so ATP and sometimes she gets too open stance and swings without enough wingspan on short balls like a Graf forehand. But the game style is distinctly influenced by Nadal. Wow.

FH-dominant with heavy topspin when attacking, but can improvise different styles especially on clay (pretty sure she learned a lot from Nadal). When she's in control of the match her opponents could only expect her UEs (which she made quite often at 2021 AO sadly), so when she's error-free we would watch complete beatdowns like her matches at RG last year or the double bagel yesterday.

 

[Nate7-5]

She had a couple everything bagels with lox on top today

 

[Bender]

I'd say specifically she is like the women's Nadal. She uses topspin on clay in the same way as he does - both to kick it up and to force deep balls back in court. A combination which gets intensely uncomfortable for the opponent. She's able to run through opponents when she hits that groove - as she did last year at RG or in the final yesterday - more so because the women are not used to this style of play. Which is both aggressive but has a lot of shot tolerance. When faced with uncomfortable shots, she does enough to stay on in the point rather than going for a wild winner and conceding the point which is what the women are more wont to do.

Yes, using her feet to move around to where a big forehand was available. Especially in the backhand corner spot from where you can go both inside in or inside out. That particular tactic is as old as Graf/Lendl but Swiatek combines that with a modern topspin based game. And her underrated backhand. There was a point in the first set where Pliskova was applying pressure on her backhand. Again, Swiatek just weathered the storm and turned tables by going for a DTL BH winner herself. This more strategic approach to tennis is new on the women's side and they are going to take time to sort her out. And in the meantime, if she improves her serve even a little, she will get harder to beat. That's her one slight weakness. It's not a bad serve (at least on clay, that second delivery is going to take a beating on hard court) but it's definitely not a strength.

Great analysis.

She openly talks about how much of an influence Nadal has been, so her movement patterns, especially running around the backhand to hit forehands at every opportunity, is nice to see in the women's game. Running around the forehand to hit inside out backhands and cross court backhands from the middle of the court is quite a common occurrence on the women's tour and I think both the directionals and the risks/rewards aren't that great especially when hitting them in the forecourt, which might be one reason why there's such a dire lack of netplay in the women's game as well.

CC + I/O + I/I + the occasional DTL forehands + CC + DTL backhands

as opposed to

CC + DTL forehands + CC + DTL + I/O backhands

 

[ChaelAZ]

People throw around terms like "ATP forehand" and such, but I think it's the FH and also the movement + footwork to set up points. And I think Swiatek is the truest representation of this. Other WTA players have used the "flip" or "ATP" forehand before, but I've never seen a WTA player use it like she does to dominate points and set up the ad court FH power position that is the key in ATP matches. She made Pliskova, a top 10 player, look like an amateur. Mainly it had to do with her footwork and FH to set up the high percentage killshots.

Thoughts on Swiatek?

I like her a lot, but dismantling Pliskova had nothing to do with her play style, which to this point had only been as effective as every other style on tour. If it were some magical panacea she would be dipping in round of 16 and 32 matches. It was a great performance, and she has done the same in other finals too, but it is more she did well this time is all.

 

[Keizer]

Pliskova was garbage yesterday too. Iga is much more dangerous on clay than any other surface, though.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I like her a lot, but dismantling Pliskova had nothing to do with her play style, which to this point had only been as effective as every other style on tour.

Actually, when a player who only played her first WTA tournament in 2019 is already showing such dominance (and as a late teen in a very physical style of play), there is a good argument to be made for its greater effectiveness.

 

[6august]

Actually she has short- very short backswing on both side. Short take-back means her capability to accelerate racquet head is very phenomenal. She's more ATP than many ATP players.

))))

 

[chrischris]

Nice hourly wage for Iga in the final.

 

[JackSockIsTheBest]

What about Jen Brady?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Actually, when a player who only played her first WTA tournament in 2019 is already showing such dominance (and as a late teen in a very physical style of play), there is a good argument to be made for its greater effectiveness.

And the others before, like Evert, Austin, Graf, etc. when they came on tour and started dominating their technique was what made it so?

There are PLENTY of women using modern forehands that aren't making any progress as a champion. Stouser has been a long time modern technique player without dominating anyone.

It is not the technique.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

And the others before, like Evert, Austin, Graf, etc. when they came on tour and started dominating their technique was what made it so?

Evert and Austin is too far back in time for me to comment but certainly Graf represented a kind of technique that wasn't there in the women's game at that point. Likewise with the Williams sisters.

There are PLENTY of women using modern forehands that aren't making any progress as a champion. Stouser has been a long time modern technique player without dominating anyone.

It is not the technique.

Well, it's not just about having a modern forehand. I never said it was down to just that. Swiatek has less of an ATP forehand anyway than Stosur but her enormous RHS helps her whip up tremendous topspin. So in that sense, it's absolutely her technique that accounts for a large part of her dominance. You can add to that her movement and high percentage tactics but those would not make her a champion without the technique that allows her to hit massive topspin without having to settle for a slower shot speed (like Kasatkina's forehand).

 

[Jason Swerve]

And the others before, like Evert, Austin, Graf, etc. when they came on tour and started dominating their technique was what made it so?

There are PLENTY of women using modern forehands that aren't making any progress as a champion. Stouser has been a long time modern technique player without dominating anyone.

It is not the technique.

These people admit that they don't watch WTA tennis. Not worth taking what they say seriously. It's another hype wave that'll blow over in a month.

 

[smalahove]

And the others before, like Evert, Austin, Graf, etc. when they came on tour and started dominating their technique was what made it so?

There are PLENTY of women using modern forehands that aren't making any progress as a champion. Stouser has been a long time modern technique player without dominating anyone.

It is not the technique.

I watch a fair amount of WTA tennis, and I'm interested in which players you feel have a similar FH as Iga.

 

[smalahove]

I'd say specifically she is like the women's Nadal. She uses topspin on clay in the same way as he does - both to kick it up and to force deep balls back in court. A combination which gets intensely uncomfortable for the opponent. She's able to run through opponents when she hits that groove - as she did last year at RG or in the final yesterday - more so because the women are not used to this style of play. Which is both aggressive but has a lot of shot tolerance. When faced with uncomfortable shots, she does enough to stay on in the point rather than going for a wild winner and conceding the point which is what the women are more wont to do.

Yes, using her feet to move around to where a big forehand was available. Especially in the backhand corner spot from where you can go both inside in or inside out. That particular tactic is as old as Graf/Lendl but Swiatek combines that with a modern topspin based game. And her underrated backhand. There was a point in the first set where Pliskova was applying pressure on her backhand. Again, Swiatek just weathered the storm and turned tables by going for a DTL BH winner herself. This more strategic approach to tennis is new on the women's side and they are going to take time to sort her out. And in the meantime, if she improves her serve even a little, she will get harder to beat. That's her one slight weakness. It's not a bad serve (at least on clay, that second delivery is going to take a beating on hard court) but it's definitely not a strength.

Pliskova likes to play flat, and loves flat pace. She even tried to inject quite a bit of pace on the CC BH at times, but as soon as Iga managed to shape the ball again, Pliskova struggled.
I watch quite a bit of WTA tennis and it is super transparent that because women have less upper body strength, they don't like high bouncing balls. For those who doubt this, pay attention next time you watch a women's what happens the few times someone sends over a high ball. One in a while, you see a winner, but most of the time it's UE bonanza (of FE actually). And it's not like the men don't have issues with this, because they do as well, which is why Rafa likes to pump up a high spinning BH DTL when he needs to recover ...

 

[Keizer]

I watch a fair amount of WTA tennis, and I'm interested in which players you feel have a similar FH as Iga.

On that tour Kasatkina, Hercog, Swiatek, Brady, Sevastova are the ATP forehand players I can name. Kuznetsova is sort of in between cause her racket gets partially behind her back but she has a lovely forehand too. Dementieva also had a nice short swing and really used her core well.

 

[Jason Swerve]

Pliskova likes to play flat, and loves flat pace. She even tried to inject quite a bit of pace on the CC BH at times, but as soon as Iga managed to shape the ball again, Pliskova struggled.
I watch quite a bit of WTA tennis and it is super transparent that because women have less upper body strength, they don't like high bouncing balls. For those who doubt this, pay attention next time you watch a women's what happens the few times someone sends over a high ball. One in a while, you see a winner, but most of the time it's UE bonanza (of FE actually). And it's not like the men don't have issues with this, because they do as well, which is why Rafa likes to pump up a high spinning BH DTL when he needs to recover ...

True or not, they need to learn to hit on the rise. A solution to everything.

 

[Keizer]

Pliskova likes to play flat, and loves flat pace. She even tried to inject quite a bit of pace on the CC BH at times, but as soon as Iga managed to shape the ball again, Pliskova struggled.
I watch quite a bit of WTA tennis and it is super transparent that because women have less upper body strength, they don't like high bouncing balls. For those who doubt this, pay attention next time you watch a women's what happens the few times someone sends over a high ball. One in a while, you see a winner, but most of the time it's UE bonanza (of FE actually). And it's not like the men don't have issues with this, because they do as well, which is why Rafa likes to pump up a high spinning BH DTL when he needs to recover ...

You are right. This is why Iga’s results have been so good on clay. She gets massive RPMs on the forehand and those are very difficult to deal with for other women. She also can recover just like Rafa with the high spinny balls that no woman can really take advantage of on clay.

 

[Jason Swerve]

You are right. This is why Iga’s results have been so good on clay. She gets massive RPMs on the forehand and those are very difficult to deal with for other women. She also can recover just like Rafa with the high spinny balls that no woman can really take advantage of on clay.

Including Barty in Madrid? Less than a month ago.

 

[Keizer]

Including Barty in Madrid? Less than a month ago.

I didn’t watch that match, but what’s the point here? One woman (an RG champ with a great serve in high altitude Madrid no less) beat her. Her results on clay have been manifestly better than her results on hard. Compare her match against Halep at RG to the match vs Halep at the AO. Her forehand is made for clay. No way she loses to Alexandrova on clay.

 

[Jason Swerve]

I didn’t watch that match, but what’s the point here? One woman (an RG champ with a great serve in high altitude Madrid no less) beat her. Her results on clay have been manifestly better than her results on hard. Compare her match against Halep at RG to the match vs Halep at the AO. Her forehand is made for clay. No way she loses to Alexandrova on clay.

Barty didn't 'beat' Swiatek like Swiatek beat Pliskova. In Madrid, Swiatek folded with mistakes. Back then (not even a month ago) folks were saying she couldn't handle match pressure. Now look at tunes changing in the slightest breeze. That'd be a lesson to anyone trying to prematurely gratify a youngster to ATG status before she's proven herself. She had a single good match. This same miscalculation is made time and time again.

 

[Keizer]

Barty didn't 'beat' Swiatek like Swiatek beat Pliskova. In Madrid, Swiatek folded with mistakes. Back then (not even a month ago) folks were saying she couldn't handle match pressure. Now look at tunes changing in the slightest breeze. That'd be a lesson to anyone trying to prematurely gratify a youngster to ATG status before she's proven herself. She had a single good match. This same miscalculation is made time and time again.

But who is saying she is an ATG? We all know she has technical problems, including the occasional tendency to error out (this was much more frequent in 2019) and an exploitable serve. What I am saying is that her clay game has the best potential of any player I have seen on the women’s side in a long time. The RG results from last year prove that, not this Pliskova match. Pliskova is a head case who had played two 3 setters the day before; she played horribly.

People compare her to Kenin and Ostapenko, but I think she has much more in her locker than either of those two players. Her losing to Barty, who has been on fire this year and has the best variety in the women’s tour shouldn’t change that.

 

[gadge]

What about Jen Brady?

Her movement isn’t as fluid as Iga

 

[Dolgopolov85]

But who is saying she is an ATG? We all know she has technical problems, including the occasional tendency to error out (this was much more frequent in 2019) and an exploitable serve. What I am saying is that her clay game has the best potential of any player I have seen on the women’s side in a long time. The RG results from last year prove that, not this Pliskova match. Pliskova is a head case who had played two 3 setters the day before; she played horribly.

People compare her to Kenin and Ostapenko, but I think she has much more in her locker than either of those two players. Her losing to Barty, who has been on fire this year and has the best variety in the women’s tour shouldn’t change that.

Further, she didn't fold to Barty. I watched that match and it was a high quality one even if Barty won in straight sets. Swiatek doesn't yet have much mileage on the tour and will figure out with time how to handle such tricky matches (like the one also that she lost to Halep at the AO).

 

[JackSockIsTheBest]

Her movement isn’t as fluid as Iga

True

 

[Sephiroth]

Go Iga!

 

[socallefty]

I’m a fan of Iga, but I don’t think her movement is that good especially when I watched her at the fast court at the AO. I think she does well only on slow courts like clay because her movement is her weakness. Her shots are great with much more topspin than other WTA pros and she will become a threat on all surfaces once her movement and anticipation gets better.