Swing Vision AI line calls and Analysis

Badmrfrosty

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
Just got an email and ordered this.

Swing Vision

It claims you can use just your iPhone to review line calls and get a detailed analysis of your play. Like automated shot tracking and match tracking. It would be cool to have accurate data on shot placement, speed, spin, etc... I don't have a PlaySight near me or I would definitely go play there. It's supposed to do all that just from Iphone.

I'm super skeptical as these things always tend to over-promise and underdeliver, but said full refund if after 2 weeks you don't like it. I'm going to try it out as if it works like promises killer app, but have a feeling it is going to be buggy and not accurate like the other data tracking tech nerd tennis stuff I've bought.

Anyone know about this or used the apple watch app they have? Anyone use that basketball app steve nash is pushing? Seems like a similar concept.

iphonex-combined-play.png
 
ive also had this email - its very expensive - with discount its $149 a year

i just dont see how this can work! if the iphone is at one end of the court there is no way it will be able to detect if a ball is in or out approx 30 meters away!
 
Yeah I got it for 99$ from that link above but they give you a 2 week trail so I'm canceling if it doesn't work. I'd love for line calls to work but would really just like advanced stats like what you get with play sight.

It would be cool to get automatic match stats like what my first/second serve mph was. Where I was hitting it. Which first serves location were not returned in.

I'll believe it when I see it but if it works exactly as it says I'll gladly pay the money. I'm skeptical as the in/out device seems to have a lot of issues.
 
Hey @Badmrfrosty thank you for your interest in SwingVision! I'm the founder :)

I just want to clarify that our initial launch will be focused on shot tracking and analysis. You'll be able to see trends and heat maps around where your shots are landing, their accuracy during a session, etc. You'll be able to answer questions like:
  • How many forehands am I hitting relative to backhands?
  • How often do I slice my backhand vs. hit topspin/flat?
  • How often does my forehand down-the-line go in vs. my forehand cross-court?
  • How accurate is my serve out-wide versus my serve down-the-T?
  • What's my most/least accurate serve/groundstroke direction?
We collect more data every week, and our shot tracking models are getting better every week as well. At our current rate of progression, some time in 2021 we'll be accurate enough that we can objectively call the lines at least as accurately as a human on the court (this is why we say "(2021)" on our website next to the automated match tracking features).

Hopefully we'll be 2x as accurate as humans and end all on-court arguments :)
 
Last edited:
swupnil said:
Hey @Badmrfrosty thank you for your interest in SwingVision! I'm the founder :)

I just want to clarify that our initial launch will be focused on shot tracking and analysis. You'll be able to see trends and heat maps around where your shots are landing, their accuracy during a session, etc. You'll be able to answer questions like:
  • How many forehands am I hitting relative to backhands?
  • How often do I slice my backhand vs. hit topspin/flat?
  • How often does my forehand down-the-line go in vs. my forehand cross-court?
  • How accurate is my serve out-wide versus my serve down-the-T?
  • What's my most/least accurate serve/groundstroke direction?
We collect more data every week, and our shot tracking models are getting better every week as well. At our current rate of progression, some time in early 2020 we'll be accurate enough that we can objectively call the lines at least as accurately as a human on the court (this is why we say "(early 2020)" on our website next to the automated match tracking feature sets).

Hopefully we'll be 2x as accurate as humans and end all on-court arguments :)
Click to expand...

Hi @swupnil , Is there any demo video for the features listed? I think a video that shows the application/software working will get more people interested in the purchase.

Do you have plans to release this on Android as well?
 
rider4ever said:
Hi @swupnil , Is there any demo video for the features listed? I think a video that shows the application/software working will get more people interested in the purchase.

Do you have plans to release this on Android as well?
Click to expand...

@rider4ever Yes, we just updated the website to include a demo - you can watch it here! Android will come in 2020.

TorontoTennis said:
To what degree of accuracy in terms of cm,mm,inches, etc.? How are you compared to In/Out, which I could never get working properly but some have?
Click to expand...

@TorontoTennis We'll be more accurate, and perhaps more importantly, more reliable than In/Out. No calibration issues, no hardware issues. Just use your state of the art smartphone and get a better app every week through software updates. As long as it can see the court, it will work :)

We'll release some more information about accuracy closer to launch. The cool part is that we are collecting more and more data constantly, and our algorithms are getting more and more accurate every week!
 
Tennis_Monk said:
When is it launching? The website says October but doesn’t seem to indicate a specific date?
Click to expand...
@Tennis_Monk We're fixing the last few bugs, doing some more thorough testing, and also have to get approval from the App Store so there isn't a fixed date yet. Targeting last week of October but potentially sooner!
 
swupnil said:
@Tennis_Monk We're fixing the last few bugs, doing some more thorough testing, and also have to get approval from the App Store so there isn't a fixed date yet. Targeting last week of October but potentially sooner!
Click to expand...

Loving the feedback/input from you.

Im very interested in your product.
 
Hi, I tested video analytics today for the first time. It's pretty good, however it was not intuitive for me to set up the camera. I used tripod. I used watch as well, so You can compare data.
The first impression is that You are doing Your best on the court knowing there's a cam somewhere analysing everything You do. The last impression is that watching myself on cam is a horrible experience. I am playing much better in my head, please fix it ;)
The middle impression is that fully loaded iphone XS dies after 1,5-2 hours with no warning. If the app could monitor the battery and give feedback (watch maybe) it would be nice.
And I do not feel very comfortable knowing there's tripod behind my back - still thinking about it while moving back to topspin.

I am still impressed with the possibilities.
 
burzum said:
Hi, I tested video analytics today for the first time. It's pretty good, however it was not intuitive for me to set up the camera. I used tripod. I used watch as well, so You can compare data.
The first impression is that You are doing Your best on the court knowing there's a cam somewhere analysing everything You do. The last impression is that watching myself on cam is a horrible experience. I am playing much better in my head, please fix it ;)
The middle impression is that fully loaded iphone XS dies after 1,5-2 hours with no warning. If the app could monitor the battery and give feedback (watch maybe) it would be nice.
And I do not feel very comfortable knowing there's tripod behind my back - still thinking about it while moving back to topspin.

I am still impressed with the possibilities.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback! Good to know it makes you play better :)

As for allowing you to enjoy watching yourself, we will have a solution for that later this year where you can easily watch your best rallies only ;)

We’ll be adding some additional instructions on the tripod setup, though you may want to try using the fence mount instead? It’s quite simple to prop up and you never have to worry about running into it on the court!

We’ll look into the battery alerts — awesome idea! We’ll also be introducing an update later in the year that will give you the option to analyze the video overnight rather than real time — this should help a lot.

Another thing to try would be to put your phone on Airplane mode so that it’s not using extra resources for any background uploading/downloading from other apps (y)
 
How did you test? I paid for this back in september and still haven't gotten any word that it is live. Just opened the app and it says coming soon.
 
Badmrfrosty said:
How did you test? I paid for this back in september and still haven't gotten any word that it is live. Just opened the app and it says coming soon.
Click to expand...

We opened the app up for some beta testing with existing active users of the watch app. Set for release today! Stay tuned :)
 
rider4ever said:
Still shows coming soon. Do we need to update the app or something? Checked app store and see no updates.
Click to expand...

Please check again! It was approved around 7PM PT last night, but took some time to propagate throughout the store in all geographies. All set now :)
 
Tennis_Monk said:
Unfortunately Downloaded latest and still same.
Click to expand...

Could you share a screenshot? You can also email us at support@swing.tennis and we can get this resolved offline.

Maybe the "Coming Soon" you're referring to is the match tracking? If so, that won't be released until 2021. This current release is focused on singles rallying. We'll slowly support more scenarios over the next few months!
 
Last edited:
Badmrfrosty said:
Just got an email and ordered this.

Swing Vision

It claims you can use just your iPhone to review line calls and get a detailed analysis of your play. Like automated shot tracking and match tracking. It would be cool to have accurate data on shot placement, speed, spin, etc... I don't have a PlaySight near me or I would definitely go play there. It's supposed to do all that just from Iphone.

I'm super skeptical as these things always tend to over-promise and underdeliver, but said full refund if after 2 weeks you don't like it. I'm going to try it out as if it works like promises killer app, but have a feeling it is going to be buggy and not accurate like the other data tracking tech nerd tennis stuff I've bought.

Anyone know about this or used the apple watch app they have? Anyone use that basketball app steve nash is pushing? Seems like a similar concept.

iphonex-combined-play.png
Click to expand...

wow,, if Roddick had this in his day, he would have won multiple wimbledons
 
swupnil said:
Could you share a screenshot? You can also email us at support@swing.tennis and we can get this resolved offline.

Maybe the "Coming Soon" you're referring to is the match tracking? If so, that won't be released until 2020. This current release is focused on singles rallying. We'll slowly support more scenarios over the next few months!
Click to expand...
When I click “ video “ menu at the bottom, that’s when I see coming soon. Not sure if there’s another menu option to record video
 
swupnil said:
Please check again! It was approved around 7PM PT last night, but took some time to propagate throughout the store in all geographies. All set now :)
Click to expand...

Tried the video analysis today. The shot tracking looks good and the ins, out and shot placement is useful info. Don't think anything like this available on the market at this price range. So Good job on implementing and I hope the app takes off and is successful.

I have a couple questions regarding some features.
1. Is the video overlay as shown in your demo part of this release? I don't see the overlay in the video but it's only been a couple hours after the recording. If not, when do you plan to release it?

2. When is the side change support feature estimated to release? I think this should be the priority since the app becomes very limited if you need stick to one side.

Again. Thanks for the good work. The tennis community needs an app like this.
 
rider4ever said:
Tried the video analysis today. The shot tracking looks good and the ins, out and shot placement is useful info. Don't think anything like this available on the market at this price range. So Good job on implementing and I hope the app takes off and is successful.

I have a couple questions regarding some features.
1. Is the video overlay as shown in your demo part of this release? I don't see the overlay in the video but it's only been a couple hours after the recording. If not, when do you plan to release it?

2. When is the side change support feature estimated to release? I think this should be the priority since the app becomes very limited if you need stick to one side.

Again. Thanks for the good work. The tennis community needs an app like this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback! Both of those features will come in around the same time. Hard to say exactly when but early 2020 is the target.

The good news is that once we can handle side changes, we will also be able to track more than 2 players (i.e. doubles) so it’s going to be an epic update!

UPDATE: We now support changing sides and doubles :)
 
Last edited:
Znak said:
Bump.

Anyone have any experience using the app they want to share? Found their Instagram quite interesting:

https://www.instagram.com/swingtennis/?hl=en
Click to expand...

I just used it the other day. Very cool and lots of detail. The only complaint is that the shot speed is definitely not accurate. Other than that it has lots of great features. And if you're playing a lot of matches or uploading highlights then I think the $10/month is worth it. One of the coolest features is being able to watch every instance of a specific stroke. So if I want to see all my forehands in a match it will cut each one out and play it in a long sequence. And that can be done with any stroke and with either player. The ball tracking is also really awesome and can break them down by stroke as well. it's really interesting to see your ball placement and hitting position compared to your opponent.

I don't have an apple watch or else the score keeping feature would be really handy.
 
derick232 said:
I just used it the other day. Very cool and lots of detail. The only complaint is that the shot speed is definitely not accurate. Other than that it has lots of great features. And if you're playing a lot of matches or uploading highlights then I think the $10/month is worth it. One of the coolest features is being able to watch every instance of a specific stroke. So if I want to see all my forehands in a match it will cut each one out and play it in a long sequence. And that can be done with any stroke and with either player. The ball tracking is also really awesome and can break them down by stroke as well. it's really interesting to see your ball placement and hitting position compared to your opponent.

I don't have an apple watch or else the score keeping feature would be really handy.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the review! Are the videos stored locally? If so how much space does a 1 or 2 hour match take up roughly and do you delete them after? Interesting, because it makes all the features I was looking for in the In/Out device available in an app. Just hoping an android version comes out in the near future.
 
Znak said:
Thanks for the review! Are the videos stored locally? If so how much space does a 1 or 2 hour match take up roughly and do you delete them after? Interesting, because it makes all the features I was looking for in the In/Out device available in an app. Just hoping an android version comes out in the near future.
Click to expand...
It's stored locally by the looks of it. and took up about 6 gb for a 1.5 hr match. Though I'm sure once you export or share it you should be able to delete it, or maybe delete the original and just keep the cut version which would save a lot of space. I think having an apple watch adds a lot of potential features like in/out calls. But I think at this point it doesn't analyze the match in real time, as that would take a lot of battery. Another complaint is that the screen is on the whole time. I would think it would be easy enough to let the screen sleep while its recording and save some battery. It is a battery hog. I plan on using it in a few hours as well. I'll update with anymore useful information.

It's a great app as is right now, but has a lot of potential to be better with android, which I think they said would be available in 2020.
Highlight clip from my match the other day. I'm in the white shirt.

2020-08-13T20:50:30.059Z_Highlights.mp4

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Just to give an example of the inaccuracy of the shot speed. My first serve averages is between 105-110, I believe it was saying my flat serves were around 70 mph.
 
Last edited:
derick232 said:
It's stored locally by the looks of it. and took up about 6 gb for a 1.5 hr match. Though I'm sure once you export or share it you should be able to delete it, or maybe delete the original and just keep the cut version which would save a lot of space. I think having an apple watch adds a lot of potential features like in/out calls. But I think at this point it doesn't analyze the match in real time, as that would take a lot of battery. Another complaint is that the screen is on the whole time. I would think it would be easy enough to let the screen sleep while its recording and save some battery. It is a battery hog. I plan on using it in a few hours as well. I'll update with anymore useful information.

It's a great app as is right now, but has a lot of potential to be better with android, which I think they said would be available in 2020.
Highlight clip from my match the other day. I'm in the white shirt.

2020-08-13T20:50:30.059Z_Highlights.mp4

drive.google.com drive.google.com
Click to expand...

You should upload this to YouTube. Can’t view it from link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Znak said:
Thanks for the review! Are the videos stored locally? If so how much space does a 1 or 2 hour match take up roughly and do you delete them after? Interesting, because it makes all the features I was looking for in the In/Out device available in an app. Just hoping an android version comes out in the near future.
Click to expand...
The videos are stored locally at first but the app uploads it to the swingvision cloud if you leave the app open for a bit at home after your session. You can then use the optimize storage feature on the app to delete all uploaded videos.

I have been using this app from its launch and it has come a long way since. The highlights is a great feature that got added within the last month and is what makes the app worth it. Like @derick232 mentioned, the shot speeds are off especially for the player on the farside of the camera.
 
rider4ever said:
I have been using this app from its launch and it has come a long way since. The highlights is a great feature that got added within the last month and is what makes the app worth it. Like @derick232 mentioned, the shot speeds are off especially for the player on the farside of the camera.
Click to expand...


Do you know if there is anyway to create your own highlights? It would be nice to be able to watch the points and star them, then compile them into custom highlights. As of right now I can only look at points over 5 shots, 7 shots, most tiring etc. I'd like to be able to add in aces, and 1-2 punches into the highlights as well.
Another great feature they should add is the ability to go back an annotate the match with the score for those not using the apple watch. You could do it manually but it could be made much easier if it was done in the app.

Here's another video I took yesterday, this time from a tripod. Much better match than the first one.
drive.google.com

Derick vs David 6-4, 3-6, 6-4.mp4

drive.google.com drive.google.com
 
derick232 said:
Do you know if there is anyway to create your own highlights? It would be nice to be able to watch the points and star them, then compile them into custom highlights. As of right now I can only look at points over 5 shots, 7 shots, most tiring etc. I'd like to be able to add in aces, and 1-2 punches into the highlights as well.
Another great feature they should add is the ability to go back an annotate the match with the score for those not using the apple watch. You could do it manually but it could be made much easier if it was done in the app.

Here's another video I took yesterday, this time from a tripod. Much better match than the first one.
drive.google.com

Derick vs David 6-4, 3-6, 6-4.mp4

drive.google.com drive.google.com
Click to expand...
There’s an option to include/exclude rallies in your highlights. You will see this when you see the video in rally by rally mode. This should let you choose rallies you want in your highlights. The problem is that all rallies are included by default and you will have to exclude all the rallies you don’t want.

I have given the support team feedback on this and request them to add a mode where all rallies are excluded and I can just include what I want. They agreed to find a way to add this mode. I have given plenty of feedback since the start of this app and most of it was implemented. So I am sure this mode will come soon
 
Light exposure is another problem, you can see in the video I posted, and it is quite annoying. The software doesn't do great with changing light conditions usually caused by clouds. Sometimes it looks great, others it's dark. and other times its very exposed.
 
Anyone who's using the watch app, how accurate do you find the RPM reading is on your shot displays? Have you found that information in the phone app anyplace? Seems like it only shows up on the watch once and then is gone.

@swupnil I'd love to be able to filter different racquets or string setups on a single session. Being able to see that data and compare my performance with each instead of just going with my gut would be awesome I think.
 
derick232 said:
It's stored locally by the looks of it. and took up about 6 gb for a 1.5 hr match. Though I'm sure once you export or share it you should be able to delete it, or maybe delete the original and just keep the cut version which would save a lot of space. I think having an apple watch adds a lot of potential features like in/out calls. But I think at this point it doesn't analyze the match in real time, as that would take a lot of battery. Another complaint is that the screen is on the whole time. I would think it would be easy enough to let the screen sleep while its recording and save some battery. It is a battery hog. I plan on using it in a few hours as well. I'll update with anymore useful information.

It's a great app as is right now, but has a lot of potential to be better with android, which I think they said would be available in 2020.
Highlight clip from my match the other day. I'm in the white shirt.

2020-08-13T20:50:30.059Z_Highlights.mp4

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Just to give an example of the inaccuracy of the shot speed. My first serve averages is between 105-110, I believe it was saying my flat serves were around 70 mph.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the video! I've also been playing around with the app these past few days and for the most part it has been fun to play around with after match play. My biggest complaint / gripe is that I also don't really trust the shot speed on serve. Groundies seem somewhat accurate, but serve speed seems all over the place. Also, I noticed that that the app called some of your bigger flat balls slices and some kickers flat balls, I've noticed something similar.

I'll upload some highlights from matchplay this morning in a bit. My phone is currently "analyzing" the video and I expect it'll be a few hours at least until I have the results.

Also, this was a total fluke but I hit a gnarly forehand framer while using the UBeesize tripod that Swing Vision recommends. I had the tripod mounted on the fence and low and behold my framer nailed my phone and the screen was demolished...off to the apple store tomorrow for a new phone :(
 
Blakefan17 said:
Thanks for sharing the video! I've also been playing around with the app these past few days and for the most part it has been fun to play around with after match play. My biggest complaint / gripe is that I also don't really trust the shot speed on serve. Groundies seem somewhat accurate, but serve speed seems all over the place. Also, I noticed that that the app called some of your bigger flat balls slices and some kickers flat balls, I've noticed something similar.

I'll upload some highlights from matchplay this morning in a bit. My phone is currently "analyzing" the video and I expect it'll be a few hours at least until I have the results.

Also, this was a total fluke but I hit a gnarly forehand framer while using the UBeesize tripod that Swing Vision recommends. I had the tripod mounted on the fence and low and behold my framer nailed my phone and the screen was demolished...off to the apple store tomorrow for a new phone :(
Click to expand...
Ouch! I've used a mix of the tripod and fence mount and I'm always concerned about nailing the tripod.
Yes I don't really trust the ball speed in general but especially on the serve. It will be a great feature when it if actually accurate.
It does take a while to export the video first from the app to wherever you're putting it. I have been putting them in a google drive folder so then it takes even longer to upload it there after exporting, and that has only been the highlight videos. Looking forward to seeing your highlights.
 
Hi All! Thank you so much for sharing your feedback here. I'll try to provide some official answers to these question (apologies for not explaining all of this thoroughly within the app!)

@Znak the videos are stored locally AND backed up to the cloud once you're on WiFi. You can remove them locally any time using the Optimize Storage button in your Profile Settings. In a future update we will add preferences around automatically freeing up space by auto-deleting backed up sessions that are 7/14/30 days old.

@derick232 we've been wanting to put the display to sleep as well but (as far as I understand) iOS doesn't allow third-party apps to record video when the display is off. Perhaps some day!

Also just FYI, your video is analyzed in real-time if you use a phone with the A12 chip or newer (e.g. iPhone XR/XS, 11, SE (2020), etc.). The full list of real-time supported devices is here.
Note: We've had some iPhone XR/XS users report that real-time analysis sometimes doesn't work. The current solution is to force quit all other open apps before recording, but we are working on a major rewrite of the A.I. to increase power efficiency and resolve this issue.

@rider4ever we are indeed working on adding a point/rally "favorite" feature where you can star individual rallies and easily export all of your favorited ones. This should be out in a couple weeks :)

@cheyngry to keep the experience consistent between watch & video tracked sessions, we don't show RPM in the iPhone app. It is stored on the shots though, so we plan to bring this back in the future once we have RPM from video. Please note that with the watch we track the speed and RPM of your swing. With video we track the speed and (eventually) RPM of the ball. This why the watch RPM is in the hundreds rather than the thousands.

Lastly, speaking to ball speed accuracy, yes serve speed (as well as spin type & placement) are particularly challenging given how short & quick the ball trajectory is. To make matters worse, we are currently under-utilizing the A.I.'s potential and only processing a fraction of all video frames (there is a tricky balance between accuracy and battery life). As we optimize our A.I. to run at higher frame rate, serves should get a lot more accurate.

Stay tuned for some massive updates around this - this our 100% focus at the moment! :)
 
Last edited:
swupnil said:
Hi All! Thank you so much for sharing your feedback here. I'll try to provide some official answers to these question (apologies for not explaining all of this thoroughly within the app!)

@Znak the videos are stored locally AND backed up to the cloud once you're on WiFi. You can remove them locally any time using the Optimize Storage button in your Profile Settings. In a future update we will add preferences around automatically freeing up space by auto-deleting backed up sessions that are 7/14/30 days old.

@derick232 we've been wanting to put the display to sleep as well but (as far as I understand) iOS doesn't allow third-party apps to record video when the display is off. Perhaps some day!

Also just FYI, your video is analyzed in real-time if you use a phone with the A12 chip or newer (e.g. iPhone XR/XS, 11, SE (2020), etc.). The full list of real-time supported devices is here.
Note: We've had some iPhone XR/XS users report that real-time analysis sometimes doesn't work. The current solution is to force quit all other open apps before recording, but we are working on a major rewrite of the A.I. to increase power efficiency and resolve this issue.

@rider4ever we are indeed working on adding a point/rally "favorite" feature where you can star individual rallies and easily export all of your favorited ones. This should be out in a couple weeks :)

@cheyngry to keep the experience consistent between watch & video tracked sessions, we don't show RPM in the iPhone app. It is stored on the shots though, so we plan to bring this back in the future once we have RPM from video. Please note that with the watch we track the speed and RPM of your swing. With video we track the speed and (eventually) RPM of the ball. This why the watch RPM is in the hundreds rather than the thousands.

Lastly, speaking to ball speed accuracy, yes serve speed (as well as spin type & placement) are particularly challenging given how short & quick the ball trajectory is. To make matters worse, we are currently under-utilizing the A.I.'s potential and only processing a fraction of all video frames (there is a tricky balance between accuracy and battery life). As we optimize our A.I. to run at higher frame rate, serves should get a lot more accurate.

Stay tuned for some massive updates around this - this our 100% focus at the moment! :)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the answers!
Any update on when an android version will be out? Or is there a beta we could do some testing on for you? ;)
 
derick232 said:
Thank you for the answers!
Any update on when an android version will be out? Or is there a beta we could do some testing on for you? ;)
Click to expand...

No updates at this time other than that 2021 is the goal. With that said, we do have a special surprise coming out before the end of this year that will allow (some) Android users to analyze their videos without having to buy an iOS device ;)
 
@swupnil Desperately waiting for Android version. I checked out apps on Android store to analyze my serve speed and they were really bad. I had to manually place points of serve/ball bounce for an app on the video, to calculate serve speed :(

After watching all these Swing Vision videos, I've been contemplating switching to iOS completely. Meanwhile, any info you could share with us how you're able to track the ball this accurately in real-time? It's almost like magic man. Would love to learn more about the tech behind this.
 
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