Swing Vision AI line calls and Analysis

mcblunder

New User

swupnil

Rookie
@mcblunder you can go back to iPhone SE 2nd gen and it’ll work in real-time. Technically you can use on even older phones and it won’t be real-time, but less than 1% of our customer does that. Since inception, we’ve consistently seen that the engagement, retention and overall feedback is an order of magnitude worse for folks who don’t get real-time processing. As such, we will not spend extensive resources on Android until we see several flagship devices that are capable of real-time processing. Eventually when we do launch, older non-real-time devices will be supported since it’s quite easy to do that, but most of the heavy lifting is building the app infrastructure and AI algorithms. It’s just not worth it for us to spend all that effort when we have objective data showing it’s going to be a 10x worse experience.
 

Traviswd77

New User
I recently saw that the swingvision branded and designed phone mount was available and bundled with signing up for Pro, so I finally decided to buy an iphone and a subscription, but the mount that arrived was a QM-1. Is there any way that I can get a refund on the qm-1 phone mount and purchase a swing mount instead?
 

swupnil

Rookie
@Traviswd77 weve never advertised or offered the Swing Stick with the bundle. We only offered it standalone as a prototype unit in March (we’re out of stock now).

It won’t come with the bundle until the summer when we’ve ramped up production volume.

You can contact our team at support@swing.tennis if you’d like a refund in the meanwhile, but we won’t have the next batch of Swing Sticks until June.
 

Traviswd77

New User
@Traviswd77 weve never advertised or offered the Swing Stick with the bundle. We only offered it standalone as a prototype unit in March (we’re out of stock now).

It won’t come with the bundle until the summer when we’ve ramped up production volume.

You can contact our team at support@swing.tennis if you’d like a refund in the meanwhile, but we won’t have the next batch of Swing Sticks until June.
Right, it just said "Phone mount". I'm the one that interpreted that as the new one.
 

derick232

Rookie
@swupnil I've been using swing vision for a long time but just recently saw a video for playsight. It looks like a more permanent solution for clubs, is this a direction swingvision will eventually be going or is the plant to stick with individual members? Also, any time line on when pickleball will be implemented?
 

sjwoo

Rookie
@swupnil, do you envision either bringing back the Semi-Pro level or, if not that, a new level where you can pay by hour? For me personally, 4-6 hours per month would be perfect...even the 10 hours at Semi-Pro (I think that's what it was, can't recall it for sure now since it's been a while) was overkill. Thank you!
 

forzamr_b

Rookie
Anyone use the line challenge feature? How is it and should I get an apple watch to use this feature?

I am usually an android guy but recently got a cheap used iphone se 3rd gen just for SV.
In my opinion, the value-add of the watch is score tracking and the resultant accurate match stats.

The line challenge is cool when it works. Sometimes these connectivity issues occur:
  • Watch can’t connect to the phone and you are unable to successfully get into the line challenge feature
  • You are able to get in, but the screenshots of the last X shots fail to load
  • The screenshots load but you are unable to review the point
The accuracy of the line challenge also depends on how good of a camera viewing angle you have (as per SV guidelines) and whether you are able to operate at 1.0x zoom.

For myself, I’m able to have my lines all unobstructed with a fence mount, but the camera zoom is at 0.7x or 0.8x. With this set-up, I still have doubts over the accuracy of the line calls for balls landing on the far side of the court.

So this is usually how I explain its use with opponents:
  1. There’s a degree of error, so we rely on human line calls as the default. Line challenge is only used if there are disputes or when we are unsure and cannot make a call ourselves.
  2. If the line challenge fails to load, we will replay the point.
  3. Understand and accept that with the degree of error, when you review the match footage post-match, you may find that the AI made the wrong call.
I could be mistaken, but the “footage” shown during the line call seems to be a “mock-up” (just like Hawkeye), rather than a snippet of the actual camera footage. So it’s not like you can review the footage and make your own judgement call. @swupnil are you able to confirm?
 
Would it be possible to use two devices (one on each end) and synch them? Even (just spit-balling here), 4 (eg two more on net posts facing inwards, like In/Out devices) to give a full 3D all round display ;)
 

nawoo

Rookie
Is it possible for me to use a gopro11 and record my match in 4k resolution, and then import the video to Swing vision to process and edit the video? Will i still be able to get the speed stats for shots and ball heat map?

I have an iphone 12 but I use the selfie front camera for recording with swing vision and the focal length is not wide enough to cover the whole court

how do you guys record with the back camera and still manage to align it properly? Its a pain in the ass to align. I don't have an apple watch. My gen 2 apple watch is now no longer supported by Swing vision, dont want to have to buy another apple watch just to use with Swingvision
 

forzamr_b

Rookie
Is it possible for me to use a gopro11 and record my match in 4k resolution, and then import the video to Swing vision to process and edit the video? Will i still be able to get the speed stats for shots and ball heat map?

I have an iphone 12 but I use the selfie front camera for recording with swing vision and the focal length is not wide enough to cover the whole court

how do you guys record with the back camera and still manage to align it properly? Its a pain in the ass to align. I don't have an apple watch. My gen 2 apple watch is now no longer supported by Swing vision, dont want to have to buy another apple watch just to use with Swingvision
Yes possible to import the video and get the shot stats. What you’ll miss out on is the scoreboard and score tracking which you won’t have without an Apple Watch anyways.
 

nawoo

Rookie
Yes possible to import the video and get the shot stats. What you’ll miss out on is the scoreboard and score tracking which you won’t have without an Apple Watch anyways.
ok awesome. i do my own score tracking on a custom template anyway

I can't stand using my apple watch and having to fiddle with it every single point during a match.
 
ok awesome. i do my own score tracking on a custom template anyway

I can't stand using my apple watch and having to fiddle with it every single point during a match.
Weird. I find it super easy to swipe up and down on watch. Takes less time than my usual fidget (fiddling with the strings LOL)! ;)
 

nawoo

Rookie
Weird. I find it super easy to swipe up and down on watch. Takes less time than my usual fidget (fiddling with the strings LOL)! ;)
Haha i saw Mark Sansait doing it on his youtube videos. After every single point, he had to fiddle with his watch. I felt it was pretty distracting and doesn't look so good on video haha
 

swupnil

Rookie
@legcramp if you're able to setup on the fence with 1x zoom, the line challenge feature is killer. In my personal experience it regularly gets calls right that my opponent and I have no clear decision about. We actually show an actual video, but it is cropped and zoomed into the ball.

@forzmr_b Interesting to hear that you thought it was an animation! It's actually a lot easier and less resource intensive if we made it an animation since currently we're sending the video files over - looks like we might be wasting resources to do this haha

@TesseractOrion we are working on 2 cam option. Don't think we will do 4 cam as 2 cam will get the line calling to a very high accuracy level, high enough that the ITF could use the system for international competitions.
 

swupnil

Rookie
@nawoo the single easiest way to setup is to use Apple Watch + Swing Stick / QM-1. It's trivial to setup this way and 75%+ of our customers have this set up now.

I'd highly recommend getting an SE watch, it's fairly affordable on Amazon and heavily discounted. It'll let you do challenges too.

Also you should try our autoscoring beta (DM me for access) - you'll just have to keep score Game by Game (or enter the Final Set scores) and the point-by-point scoreboard + match stats will be autogenerated for you. It's pretty incredible.
 

happyloman

Professional
@swupnil I've been using swing vision regularly on the Pro plan and am very happy with your software in general

Question: why do some of the exports come out in 1020 (while some are 720)? -- These are all sessions on the Pro plan btw.
Edit: Maybe it's due to Youtube requiring extra time to finish processing the file. Some of the youtube uploads are 720 while some are both 1020/1080.



Is there a plan to update/change the app/web interface anytime soon? I find that the "flat" structure of the sessions makes loading of older sessions cumbersome and time consuming. Would be nice to have a time/session type (match vs practice, etc) filter. My Apple SE app (dedicated use to swing vision only so it has no other memory-consuming apps) has been crashing everytime I scroll to a really old session (meaning there are hundreds of sessions currently being displayed) so I've had to make the decision to delete all non-matches in order to decrease the number of sessions in my profile.

Another wishlist item -- would be nice to have historical trends across sessions :)
 
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silverwyvern4

Semi-Pro
@swupnil I've been using swing vision regularly on the Pro plan and am very happy with your software in general

Question: why do some of the exports come out in 1020 (while some are 720)? -- These are all sessions on the Pro plan btw.

Is there a plan to update/change the app/web interface anytime soon? I find that the "flat" structure of the sessions makes loading of older sessions cumbersome and time consuming. Would be nice to have a time/session type (match vs practice, etc) filter. My Apple SE app (dedicated use to swing vision only so it has no other memory-consuming apps) has been crashing everytime I scroll to a really old session (meaning there are hundreds of sessions currently being displayed) so I've had to make the decision to delete all non-matches in order to decrease the number of sessions in my profile.

Another wishlist item -- would be nice to have historical trends across sessions :)
I wonder if they labeled resolution are not correct and they're all 1080p 60fps
 

chic

Hall of Fame
@swupnil I've been using swing vision regularly on the Pro plan and am very happy with your software in general

Question: why do some of the exports come out in 1020 (while some are 720)? -- These are all sessions on the Pro plan btw.

Is there a plan to update/change the app/web interface anytime soon? I find that the "flat" structure of the sessions makes loading of older sessions cumbersome and time consuming. Would be nice to have a time/session type (match vs practice, etc) filter. My Apple SE app (dedicated use to swing vision only so it has no other memory-consuming apps) has been crashing everytime I scroll to a really old session (meaning there are hundreds of sessions currently being displayed) so I've had to make the decision to delete all non-matches in order to decrease the number of sessions in my profile.

Another wishlist item -- would be nice to have historical trends across sessions :)
Do you play indoors a lot?
I know a lot of phone cameras automatically lower the resolution and or FPS if they're not getting enough light to the sensors.
Si detectors efficiency drops off in bluer light and a lot of tennis courts have very cool lighting at night or indoors that can make it hard for the camera to function at full capacity.
 

happyloman

Professional
I wonder if they labeled resolution are not correct and they're all 1080p 60fps
I'm referring to the feature where you can "export" the video from SwingVision out to a file. The file itself (not the labeled resolution) is sometimes 720, and sometimes 1080 (even thought the source is 1080).
Edit: Maybe it's due to Youtube requiring extra time to finish processing the file. Some of the youtube uploads are 720 while some are both 1020/1080.
 
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happyloman

Professional
Do you play indoors a lot?
I know a lot of phone cameras automatically lower the resolution and or FPS if they're not getting enough light to the sensors.
Si detectors efficiency drops off in bluer light and a lot of tennis courts have very cool lighting at night or indoors that can make it hard for the camera to function at full capacity.
No, all sessions are outdoors.
 

swupnil

Rookie
@happyloman thats strange if you’re seeing 1080p in the app UI. I would double check the file that’s exported prior to uploading to YouTube - it should be 1080p every time.

Session filters for iOS and web are coming in Q3! And trends across sessions are coming in Q4. These are going to be really nice and even show how you compare on any particular stat to the average of your NTRP/UTR. Going to be next level :)
 

forzamr_b

Rookie
Thinking of getting a wide angle lens attachment for my iPhone 13 mini so I can operate at 1x zoom and cover all the court lines. Anyone have recommendations for brand/model? I would prefer one that doesn’t require a special phone case. Thanks in advance!
 
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nawoo

Rookie
Will we get 4k export anytime soon? Lol. I dont use cloud services so i normally just export to phone, then upload onto youtube, or export onto macbook. What if i want 4k export but don't need the cloud services, do i still need to subscribe to ultra tier?

1080p is really blurry on my 65in oled tv lol
 

silverwyvern4

Semi-Pro
Will we get 4k export anytime soon? Lol. I dont use cloud services so i normally just export to phone, then upload onto youtube, or export onto macbook. What if i want 4k export but don't need the cloud services, do i still need to subscribe to ultra tier?

1080p is really blurry on my 65in oled tv lol
It's not recorded in 4K
 
On my refurbished iPhone SE (2020) the on device processing never seems to finish: Says 2 and a half hours (similar to match time) but when I check later it says "Oops" (battery low or something, even tho it's 100% on mains power).

On website it says 100% completed "This video is still uploading to the cloud. Please try again later."

PS SwingVision is the only thing I use iPhone for. Battery runs out before 3 hour mark, even with a small 2000 mAh powerbank attached :(
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
On my refurbished iPhone SE (2020) the on device processing never seems to finish: Says 2 and a half hours (similar to match time) but when I check later it says "Oops" (battery low or something, even tho it's 100% on mains power).

On website it says 100% completed "This video is still uploading to the cloud. Please try again later."

PS SwingVision is the only thing I use iPhone for. Battery runs out before 3 hour mark, even with a small 2000 mAh powerbank attached :(
you need to turn off adaptive brightness and turn down the brightness, otherwise using it outside the auto brightness will likely turn up the screen to max brightness and the screen will take up a lot of battery.
 
Oh I see. (y) Thanks for that. I'm not a user of the Apple eco-system much, only got the phone due to SwingVision's inability to program for Android devices.
 

thecatch33

New User
On my refurbished iPhone SE (2020) the on device processing never seems to finish: Says 2 and a half hours (similar to match time) but when I check later it says "Oops" (battery low or something, even tho it's 100% on mains power).

On website it says 100% completed "This video is still uploading to the cloud. Please try again later."

PS SwingVision is the only thing I use iPhone for. Battery runs out before 3 hour mark, even with a small 2000 mAh powerbank attached :(
Good to know there are others experiencing this. I don't think it's related to your iPhone SE. I'm on iPhone 13 Pro and my videos are constantly not processing properly, forcing me to re-process them which takes 1.5 hours, during which time I can't use my phone for anything else. Video uploads have bugged out on me twice, as well, leading to the same "100% uploaded but still not complete" issue you also have.

Have you figured out how to resolve either problem? Support has been very frustrating...at best. They take days to respond and then respond with canned answers like "Have you tried restarting the app?" Then they go radio silent for a week before giving another canned response like "Are you connected to wifi?" For another issue with deleting an extra profile they literally never responded.

I'll give them a few more days to see if they can actually do anything before requesting a refund. I like the concept, but Swingvision is too buggy to be useable at the moment and with awful support. If I were a free user I'd be less annoyed, but not as a paid user.
 
Hi, I'm afraid I haven't found a resolution to the issue as of yet :(

Am looking at PlaySight for the club in future. Comes down to cost and effectiveness. In/Out was a disaster but that was a one-man band, am hoping future developments by larger, more professional companies will help fill the market need, as appears to be happening (y)

OK it's finally finished processing. Stats are wrong about serves (apparently we both got 100% first serves in LOL).

It's also a wee bit annoying having to tag oneself multiple times...
 
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Casper777

Professional
New user here...

Anybody knows how to use the autopanning feature that following the ball? Noob here and don't know if this isnsomething special of if you need an additionnal pièce of gear.

Also just got to try swingvision once sk far but not unusable due to the hot weather and the fact the iPhone heats up too much and stops everything after 5 minutes
 

silverwyvern4

Semi-Pro
New user here...

Anybody knows how to use the autopanning feature that following the ball? Noob here and don't know if this isnsomething special of if you need an additionnal pièce of gear.

Also just got to try swingvision once sk far but not unusable due to the hot weather and the fact the iPhone heats up too much and stops everything after 5 minutes
Autopanning happens when you export a video in vertical mode or instagram mode
 

thecatch33

New User
Hi, I'm afraid I haven't found a resolution to the issue as of yet :(

Am looking at PlaySight for the club in future. Comes down to cost and effectiveness. In/Out was a disaster but that was a one-man band, am hoping future developments by larger, more professional companies will help fill the market need, as appears to be happening (y)

OK it's finally finished processing. Stats are wrong about serves (apparently we both got 100% first serves in LOL).

It's also a wee bit annoying having to tag oneself multiple times...
Agreed, tagging yourself for every point is annoying but acceptable since it only takes a couple of minutes. It would be better if Swingvision didn’t advertise they use AI for auto tagging, but I digress…

For first serve stats, I think that’s a limitation of using final score (ie inputting the final score after everything is done). If you do game by game (and definitely point by point but that is super annoying to do), it will give you better serve stats. But to do that you need an Apple Watch, which if you don’t already is another big investment for getting Swingvision to work better.
 

initialize

Hall of Fame
@swupnil

I record myself using my ball machine a lot.

Many times I'll bring my tripod closer to the net to record myself volleying -- even when I go through a full hopper of about 90 balls, for some reason the app only shows about 30 volleys. This happens every single time I record myself volleying.

Any idea why? I also change the settings on my ball machine to feed balls at a shorter interval when I do this, could that be the problem?
 

swupnil

Rookie
@initialize it would be helpful if you can DM me a link. In general, the entire court needs to be visible or it’s going to throw off the AI.

And yes sorry all for the uploading and tagging issues. We have tens of thousands of paid customers and are trying to improve both of these aspects of the app more than any other.

We do use AI to cut down the number of images but it still needs to get a lot better. More coming this summer.
 

swupnil

Rookie
@thecatch33 sorry about the slow support. We're trying our best to keep up and recently hired our first full time employee for CX but it's still a very high volume to keep up with.

Could you try the latest 10.2.2? We have some massive fixes and improvements in that and have heard great feedback from others who recently had uploading issues.

Tons more fixes coming this summer.
 

aus89

Hall of Fame
maybe change that "and" in the thread title to an ampersand - not a bad marketing move though!
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Still suffering from the issue of not uploading to the cloud. Well, the iPhone (after several abortive attempts) says it's done but link to website doesn't agree (stuck @ 73% for days)... :(

Edit: Days later, same match will not export any more. Website still saying 73% so that's stuck too :confused:

Can't recommend this system as it's just too unreliable.
 
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