Swing Weight vs. RHS

[Shroud]

Well, two stripes of lead 5 inches wide centerd at 12 (+ 10 pts sw to about 335), to the ps 18x20 made magic ) The confidence on the forehand side skyrocketed - all was in and spin/power was easily adjusted, huge and predictable. I runned around the bh a lot, mainly cause the forehand was so easy and accurate, the other reason - the bh was off and I clipped the courd a thousand times. Underspin bh was also off. Everything has a tradeoff, thats just life. The advice was spot on, thanks a lot!

Its a guess based one my own racket but it seems the higher sw rackets have a lower launch angle (I say guess because I had different strings and tensions so I could be wrong) and that would explain your results clipping the cord.

Glad you are liking it!

 

[movdqa]

The backhand is more sensitive to timing and a big sw difference will change your timing. It just requires adjustments.

 

[newyorkstadium]

Great thread Shroud and I remember you saying in the past, travlerajm, that you would go higher swingweight if you could serve well with it. I've always found it's the serve that limits how high I can go, as I don't get the velocity and my shoulder feels it. It could be a technique issue, mind. After reading these positive experiences, I might have to hit the practice courts and put forward increasing my swingweight and twistweight. Hopefullly it pays off and I can better deflect some of the big topspin forehands in my summer league.

@travlerajm , I sent you a message. Could you let me know on here if you got it? Sorry to go off topic, I've been having issues sending messages lately.

 

[Shroud]

Great thread Shroud and I remember you saying in the past, travlerajm that you would go higher swingweight if you could serve well with it. I've always found it's the serve that limits how high I can go, as I don't get the velocity and my shoulder feels it. It could be a technique issue, mind. After reading these positive experiences, I might have to hit the practice courts and put forward increasing my swingweight and twistweight. Hopefullly it pays off and I can better deflect some of the big topspin forehands in my summer league.

@travlerajm , I sent you a message. Could you let me know on here if you got it? Sorry to go off topic, I've been having issues sending messages lately.

Thanks NYS. On the serve I think there is an advantage on the serve with a higher sw. At least for topspin serves and well you dont have to swing as fast on the flats to get a great serve. I think its doable. And if you can get a sweet spot between RHS and SW I can only see the serve benefitting

 

[Shroud]

The backhand is more sensitive to timing and a big sw difference will change your timing. It just requires adjustments.

FWIW I find on my BH that if I tune my MgRI my BH benefits from the racket pulling through a bit at contact for some reason.

 

[movdqa]

FWIW I find on my BH that if I tune my MgRI my BH benefits from the racket pulling through a bit at contact for some reason.

I haven't made any changes to my frames - I just use them as I received them and they are great, once I got used to them. They were made for a Netherlands ATP player and I really like them. I'm not inclined to do a lot more work on frames for a while (the lead is under the bumper so it would mean replacing all of the bumpers at a minimum).

 

[Power Player]

Great thread Shroud and I remember you saying in the past, travlerajm, that you would go higher swingweight if you could serve well with it. I've always found it's the serve that limits how high I can go, as I don't get the velocity and my shoulder feels it. It could be a technique issue, mind. After reading these positive experiences, I might have to hit the practice courts and put forward increasing my swingweight and twistweight. Hopefullly it pays off and I can better deflect some of the big topspin forehands in my summer league.

@travlerajm , I sent you a message. Could you let me know on here if you got it? Sorry to go off topic, I've been having issues sending messages lately.

If your shoulder feels it, thats probably technique. You are probably arming the serve. At the same time, when the SW is too high it will hinder your tip speed.

The higher SW helps reinforce when I arm the serve and keeps me smooth and relaxed. I'm really digging the 355 SW now that I am getting used to it (dropped down from 365). It actually feels right on the cusp of being too light, but it is not. I think when you fine tune SWs you want to get it in that wheelhouse.

 

[newyorkstadium]

If your shoulder feels it, thats probably technique. You are probably arming the serve. At the same time, when the SW is too high it will hinder your tip speed.

The higher SW helps reinforce when I arm the serve and keeps me smooth and relaxed. I'm really digging the 355 SW now that I am getting used to it (dropped down from 365). It actually feels right on the cusp of being too light, but it is not. I think when you fine tune SWs you want to get it in that wheelhouse.

Just to clarify, I just meant my arm "muscles" tire quicker from serving with a high swingweight stick. It would obviously help if I did some gym work but gyms aren't for me. I've never had shoulder pain from serving thankfully. I do struggle to generate enough tip speed with high SW sticks too, to get the mph. Whilst I've never served well with high SW sticks, that easy power from the high SW is fun to serve with. I'll try and work on it, when I experiment with higher SW setups in the next week or so.

 

[asifallasleep]

@Shroud RHS and high SW are mutually xclusive. The more torque required to accelerate the racket the longer it takes to come up to speed. Also once that high SW racket comes up to speed it takes longer to stop it and turn it around for the next shot, unless you just want to sit on the baseline and hit balls. A high SW racket will also slow you down on the court. Your arms and legs will always move in unison. If one arm pumps slower the other will follow and slow down. If your arms slow down your legs will do the same.

Change in SW, more often than not, makes a pretty big difference. Going up in SW, at least for me, is easier than going down. It takes longer for me to become accustomed to lower SWs than higher ones, but no matter which direction the SW change goes I can almost immediately see the advantages of both. Once you find something closer to what is best suited for your game the less you will be inclined to change.

A difference of +5 from my preferred swing weight just really kills me. I'm shocked at how such a relatively small difference effects me so greatly. I now understand why the pros want their frames to be exact. I played exclusively with the new slightly heavier stick (as I wanted a 3rd frame) for 3 weeks thinking i would adjust and I could not. I was playing lights out consistently before and now my game has been horrible. Just as you stated, i couldn't get the RHS and my footwork just slowed down. Everything slowed down. I had to work extra hard just to have a chance.

I have to get rid of this new stick. Crazy. I may have to send one of my preferred frames to TW and use their racquet matching service to secure a 3rd frame.

 

[beltsman]

I hit with 100 swingweight. RHS 4 lyfe.

 

[graycrait]

I have a Prince Ripstick, supposedly stock its SW is 365 at 29" and less than 10oz, yet I found the racket unbalanced and too light. I stuffed poly pillow batting in the handle until it weighed 11.4 oz and 5 pts HL. Now I am looking around for another. Best thing is that it functions well choking up, has a 16x21 pattern in 104". It works well with a $3.00 set of syn gut. I am close to the Holy Grail.

 

[donquijote]

I have 2 of the same rackets but I removed all the lead from one. The fully leaded has a 400SW the one without the lead is around 330.

I really like the RHS of the 330 one and see the advantage of that and it being sooo light to maneuver. But I miss the 400sw and its solidity and effortlessness.

Is there a way to get both? Say a 340- 350sw? Or are they mutually exclusive? at what point does RHS start to diminish and what is the sweet spot for both? The magical 370SW is almost right in the middle between these two extremes.

Do you look something similar to this?

 

[movdqa]

Shroud has posted so many videos of himself that I'm surprised that anyone doesn't know what he looks like.

She's pretty close though:

 

[donquijote]

Shroud has posted so many videos of himself that I'm surprised that anyone doesn't know what he looks like.

She's pretty close though:

Aww that's a legend! <3

 

[Shroud]

Do you look something similar to this?

I am the one on the right. so yeah I am ripped!

FWIW I am not sold on the idea the muscles are required to use high SW. Now if you are muscling the ball all the time then maybe its so, but with right technique the racquet does most of the work.

 

[Shroud]

Shroud has posted so many videos of himself that I'm surprised that anyone doesn't know what he looks like.

She's pretty close though:

Yeah I am dangerous with those vids....

Is that Date?

 

[movdqa]

Yeah I am dangerous with those vids....

Is that Date?

Yup.

 

[movdqa]

Racquet felt great today. More power, control and spin.

BTW, as far as late takebacks go, take a look at Sverev's (Mischa) match against Djokovic recently. Talk about a takeback at the last moment on his forehand!

 

[Shroud]

Racquet felt great today. More power, control and spin.

BTW, as far as late takebacks go, take a look at Sverev's (Mischa) match against Djokovic recently. Talk about a takeback at the last moment on his forehand!

Glad its working for you.

Finally got to hit with the shortened and polarized Prince lightening and was really excited at how controlled and solid it was bit still with good rhs and manueverability. Keeper i think.

On the tips section they were hazzling me about the late take back and earlier is harder for me to do but seems to have some benefits. I will check that out. Also i swear Courier starts his take back when the ball bounces... Its not TT approved but i would take Couriers FH easily even if it meant using the PS85. Which one day i will fix by cutting down and leading up as Trav did in his super powers thread.

 

[movdqa]

I don't know if it's how fast you take the racquet back as to how fast you realize where the balls are coming and are mentally prepared for it on that side and maybe already moving in the right direction. Sverev does kind of a double-pump. He brings the racquet to the forehand side of his body but not enough to actually hit the stroke. Then, he brings it back full and takes a pretty short stroke.

I was away for 10 days and didn't workout much during that time or the week before or after. I started working out again last week and kicked it up today and everything on the court felt a lot better. Playing around with lead tape shows me that there are advantages to specs but that fitness matters a lot more than lead tape.

 

[Serjojeee]

I don't know if it's how fast you take the racquet back as to how fast you realize where the balls are coming and are mentally prepared for it on that side and maybe already moving in the right direction. Sverev does kind of a double-pump. He brings the racquet to the forehand side of his body but not enough to actually hit the stroke. Then, he brings it back full and takes a pretty short stroke.

I was away for 10 days and didn't workout much during that time or the week before or after. I started working out again last week and kicked it up today and everything on the court felt a lot better. Playing around with lead tape shows me that there are advantages to specs but that fitness matters a lot more than lead tape.

And that matters even more with heavy players raquets, so I started to work with elastic bands this summer and it definitely helped. 15 years ago I could do 300 pounds deadlift. Even 160 is heavy now , I'm in bad shape. And 1-handed technique is bad for your back cause one side is doing everything, the other - tossing 50gms ball 6 feet high.

 

[Karma Tennis]

And 1-handed technique is bad for your back cause one side is doing everything, the other - tossing 50gms ball 6 feet high.

Can't quite understand this point. Your back rotates in opposite directions when hitting forehands or backhands. The rotation occurs regardless of whether you hit double handed or single handed ground strokes. Proper ground strokes are executed from the legs up. Back issues are usually an indication of poor stroke technique - often occurs when players "arm" their ground strokes which typically places excessive stress on the back.

The serve is usually single handed though so unless you have come up with a two handed serve technique, that stroke is always going to place stress on a players back. Although the stress can be minimised with appropriate stroke technique.

 

[movdqa]

Can't quite understand this point. Your back rotates in opposite directions when hitting forehands or backhands. The rotation occurs regardless of whether you hit double handed or single handed ground strokes. Proper ground strokes are executed from the legs up. Back issues are usually an indication of poor stroke technique - often occurs when players "arm" their ground strokes which typically places excessive stress on the back.

The serve is usually single handed though so unless you have come up with a two handed serve technique, that stroke is always going to place stress on a players back. Although the stress can be minimised with appropriate stroke technique.

A guy I play with regularly serves lefty and righty. Also plays lefty and righty, one-handed and two-handed backhands. So he gets a balanced workout.

 

[Shroud]

And that matters even more with heavy players raquets, so I started to work with elastic bands this summer and it definitely helped. 15 years ago I could do 300 pounds deadlift. Even 160 is heavy now , I'm in bad shape. And 1-handed technique is bad for your back cause one side is doing everything, the other - tossing 50gms ball 6 feet high.

Dude that seems super strong to me. Dont think i ever did any dead lifts but heck my 65lb amplifier was a pain to lift up 2 flights of stairs. I cant imagine 160 lbs even for a short time

 

[Serjojeee]

Sounds like orange rockerverb 100w You are feeling that 300 with my own weight of 160 exactly that way - as an impossible thing, that you are doing, love that feeling ) ) But bodybuilding is not possible imho, when you are playing a lot - the body will disintegrate...

 

[Shroud]

Why add weight at 12 if you want the heft back, add mass @ 6 o'clock just to see what happens. Still have mass behind the ball with only 1/7th the SW increase. And a lower SW increase gives you more RHS.

Hey Irvin. I tried this once and it was dreadful. Sorry for the late reply.

I was dumb enough to play 2 sets with it. Coming from lead at 10&2 to lead at 6pm the timing was so off. Everything was wrong. And there was no spin it seemed. Embarrassing. Dude was a way better player anyhow, but I should have switched back

Actually the lead was so much that I put it on the throat below 6pm on both sides of the throat.

Was going for a depolarized frame and ended up with a depolarized game.

 

[Irvin]

@Shroud I’m not sure where you’re going here on this old thread. There’s a pretty good difference between adding weight at 12, 6, or 10 & 2. Depening on what you’re trying to achieve for all could be used and many others.

 

[Shroud]

@Shroud I’m not sure where you’re going here on this old thread. There’s a pretty good difference between adding weight at 12, 6, or 10 & 2. Depening on what you’re trying to achieve for all could be used and many others.

Hey Irvin. I had read a thread on depolarization and made a stick that weighed the same as I was using which was 380g iirc, but with mass mostly at 6pm. It was a bit lower iirc. I def like a polarized stick.

And yes I don’t always know where I am going either…

 

[Power Player]

Glad to see this thread come back. It's timely for me since I partially tore an elbow ligament during last USTA season and had to finish out with that injury. Got my a** handed to me a few times, but after that I took 3 months off and recovered.

To get through that season I played with a weighted up APD strung with very low tension poly. SW was around 335 or so. I started with gut and multi in the 50's, but the 40#s low tension poly was easier on my arm. This was because I realized I had been back to swinging too hard and trying to flatten out the ball with more old school frames. It just doesn't work for me.

Anyway after I got better I grabbed some Rafa Origins since they were on a deep sale. Did not expect to really use them that much, but it's all I have been using since. Been working with a coach who runs me ragged and has me fine tuning the kinetic chain on groundies and serve. I am back to 355-360 SW and it's been going great so far. Will see how it evolves over the next few months. The high SW is probably the one racquet change that makes the most impact on the court. People notice when the ball is coming at them with that extra weight behind it, because I get comments like "wtf man, I thought your arm was injured".

I think up to 4.5, probably even to 5.0 and under, you can use this type of setup as long as you are committed to technical improvement. Arming the ball is not going to work. I think this is good for a lot of players like me who tend to over swing and abandon the kinetic chain sometimes in the heat of battle. The higher SW just keeps me relaxed and focused on my movement, because I dont need to do much above the waist.

Above 5.0 the game is going to be at another level of speed and I see why pros are dropping their SW into the 330s now. It's also why so many college players use stock frames. Why not, the ball is coming at you with heat. When the average ball is coming at you with serious pace, you don't need as much SW to generate a big shot, especially with good hand eye. But at normal rec level, there are just not a lot of players that are going to give that type of pace shot after shot. The best 4.0s in my area are patient and don't really hit hard unless they have a clear winner. It's more about placement over pace, staying relaxed, hitting deep and moving well.

 

[Shroud]

Glad to see this thread come back. It's timely for me since I partially tore an elbow ligament during last USTA season and had to finish out with that injury. Got my a** handed to me a few times, but after that I took 3 months off and recovered.

To get through that season I played with a weighted up APD strung with very low tension poly. SW was around 335 or so. I started with gut and multi in the 50's, but the 40#s low tension poly was easier on my arm. This was because I realized I had been back to swinging too hard and trying to flatten out the ball with more old school frames. It just doesn't work for me.

Anyway after I got better I grabbed some Rafa Origins since they were on a deep sale. Did not expect to really use them that much, but it's all I have been using since. Been working with a coach who runs me ragged and has me fine tuning the kinetic chain on groundies and serve. I am back to 355-360 SW and it's been going great so far. Will see how it evolves over the next few months. The high SW is probably the one racquet change that makes the most impact on the court. People notice when the ball is coming at them with that extra weight behind it, because I get comments like "wtf man, I thought your arm was injured".

I think up to 4.5, probably even to 5.0 and under, you can use this type of setup as long as you are committed to technical improvement. Arming the ball is not going to work. I think this is good for a lot of players like me who tend to over swing and abandon the kinetic chain sometimes in the heat of battle. The higher SW just keeps me relaxed and focused on my movement, because I dont need to do much above the waist.

Above 5.0 the game is going to be at another level of speed and I see why pros are dropping their SW into the 330s now. It's also why so many college players use stock frames. Why not, the ball is coming at you with heat. When the average ball is coming at you with serious pace, you don't need as much SW to generate a big shot, especially with good hand eye. But at normal rec level, there are just not a lot of players that are going to give that type of pace shot after shot. The best 4.0s in my area are patient and don't really hit hard unless they have a clear winner. It's more about placement over pace, staying relaxed, hitting deep and moving well.

Its interesting that you went up in sw after being injured. Sorry about your arm.

I did the same thing. If i never got te I would probably still be playing with a 93 pog.

Today I did some forehand work and started hitting with the hips and not the arm. Its a mini revelation. Some shots were just so effortless. Good point about the technique and arming the ball. For the record I get it about over swinging!


And btw i hit some high backhands with a 231g stick today. Omg. My elbow was not happy. Something to be said about some mass behind the ball.