Swinging up on the ball on serve - question

[goeblack]

Went to the courts this morning and locked this new swing path in. Wow I was in hog heaven. I just could not wait until my 2:00 showed up to get a hold of this.

I took my practice serves,( mostly as a nice effort to let him get a look. I hate it when a guy says "these are good" right from the get go.) Well I fired the first serve off and missed by a couple of inches out wide.(I am a lefty by the way.)
Then of course, I am thinking, I hope I do not start with a double fault. Then with this grand new motion, I fired one down the T. Wow, that ball started high and dropped just long, but it hit the fence farther up than any serve I have ever hit. Even so, I getting a little concerned. This kid is really good and I do not want him to break me straight away.
So, now the trouble starts. In an effort to be a little on the safe side, I without knowing, try to execute this grand new serve without giving it 100%. Now I find myself trying to hit with the blade, but reverting back to the side arm motion.

Long story short, I said "oh hell no, I am locking this jewel in no matter what. Yes I had more than my average double faults, but I was not coming off this serve no matter what.
All ended well and I left very optimistic. I won quite a few free points on my serve when I thought about the SWING PATH which leaves pronation just plain a requirement.

 

[Power Player]

Yep it is all about getting the right swingpath for sure..worked on it more tonight and really enjoy the movement you can get on the ball..

Btw i saw your question on big hitter and tb and while the price and quality is right on bh, the tour bite is the best poly i have used in my wilson.

 

[goeblack]

I can not express what this tip has done for me. Maybe I had a quirk identical to PP. Then again maybe this tip is just plain golden for many who have the time to really study what this guy is saying. I have tried everything, I mean everything to get a little extra on my serve.(not that bad to begin with but) this is the bomb tip for me.

No pain. No extra effort. Only problem is trying not to giggle when I see my opponent reaction as the ball flies by.

 

[user92626]

goeblack and PP,

What's the tip again? I kinda get lost in the sea of texts. Or maybe you can elaborate a bit more.

 

[5263]

Well their serves are obviously great and would serve as a good model. However, you have to consider that there are a ton of pros who don't have that motion and STILL have world class serves. My point is, amateur players need to focus on the the things that EVERY pro does and not get caught up trying to copy the differences.

I love your main point here about focusing on things every pro server does, but don't agree there are world class servers who don't have that motion. All the great servers hit with that technique to a greater or lesser extent. I think you are just not getting what PPlayer is trying to describe and how Lhitter's suggestions plays into it.

They are making excellent points that go into all excellent service motions.
Not sure what PowerPlayer was doing before though, lol.

 

[HunterST]

I love your main point here about focusing on things every pro server does, but don't agree there are world class servers who don't have that motion. All the great servers hit with that technique to a greater or lesser extent. I think you are just not getting what PPlayer is trying to describe and how Lhitter's suggestions plays into it.

They are making excellent points that go into all excellent service motions.
Not sure what PowerPlayer was doing before though, lol.

Yeah, there's probably a lot of miscommunication going on. To me, it just looked like a lot of people were saying that a key to the serve is finishing with the arm high like Pete Sampras does. That in itself can't be a fundamental because many, in fact most, high level servers don't finish like that. Maybe they were talking about something else, though. There should be ample video evidence if it is a key to a big serve.

 

[DeShaun]

I had some pronation issues on serve due to way too much baseball playing in which I threw sidearm (shortstop), then played lacrosse and shot with some of the same motion.

This resulted in an unstable wrist on serve and made injury a lot easier. In working past this, I have been retraining myself to use a loose arm and whip through the ball. I find that part easy to grasp, but getting it consistent was tough.

Anyway, I was working on hitting more of a kick serve..just hitting up on the ball and over it. What I started to notice was that this was allowing me to pronate through the ball properly and finish with the racquet butt end up pointed up. Once I got this part down, I started noticing that I was able to hit some rather big serves and was not just limited to kickers.

The adjustment I made was visualizing the racquet face facing my back on the racquet drop and leading with the blade. Instead of thinking of chopping the ball in half with the blade, I thought about attacking the ball with the leading edge basically being the 3 o clock area on the racquet face. It is tough to describe, but basically how you would hit a kick serve. I was wiping up the back and through the ball instead of just brushing it with spin.

My old motion consistent of my racquet coming at the ball with the edge leading, but the racquet was not laying across my back, but more straight behind me. This seemed to make it tough to control the swing up to contact and proper pronation.

Not sure if this makes sense, but basically the amount of spin and pace plus consistency from this motion seems to really encourage a healthy "snap through" the ball and results in some serious heat and action. Started wondering if this type of service is how many servers hit a flatter ball that still can drop into the box with a lot of pace and accuracy.

The snap encouraged by the motion you describe may be due to the ball rolling down into hitting the lower half of the oval which forces the top half over-and-towards the net, snapping of your wrist for you.

 

[goeblack]

Since I have been so engulfed with this thread perhaps, I could provide some observations.

HunterST, I think your point is well taken for the majority of people trying to improve their serve. Great advice, not to go off on some extreme motion that will likely get them off track.

But I do not think that Power Player had that in mind at all.
I think his point, which has proven extremely beneficial to me, is that if someone who has played this game for a while can discover that they have a quirk in their serve. Something that, for whatever reason, has stuck in their brain and caused them to think they are doing something they are not.

Of course, I guess a video would solve that problem rather quickly but, that is something that is not available to me today. So perhaps a person discovers that they are not doing a certain thing like they thought they were. So in order to correct this they go, to what is in their brain, is overkill. Then this in fact puts them where they should have been all along.

 

[Power Player]

Yeah, there's probably a lot of miscommunication going on. To me, it just looked like a lot of people were saying that a key to the serve is finishing with the arm high like Pete Sampras does. That in itself can't be a fundamental because many, in fact most, high level servers don't finish like that. Maybe they were talking about something else, though. There should be ample video evidence if it is a key to a big serve.

No that was never the point. Is all about the swing path, which others seemed to get.

Another tip. I use a abbreviated serve since i had a pretty bad wrist injury and it has helped me out a ton. Before i toss the ball, i have my racquet prepped basically.

Well the way i prep my racquet means a lot to getting the timing right. So what i did today was focus on that. I basically focused on my serving arm starting high and elbow bent 90 degrees so the racquet was already behind my head and simply just dropped down on the toss and swung up to contact.

This results in huge flat serves that require very little effort. From the ball bounce i am guessing some serves cleared the magical 100 mph mark, and i have not totally dialed in my kneed bend or toss placement.

I had a huge serve as a junior and it was all technically wrong, but i could still serve massively. When you are a kid, your body does not care, but once you hit around 25 or so, it starts to get angry. So this has been a complete service rebuild, which is very difficult to do when you are used to hitting bombs and bullying people with a huge first serve.

I never have once thought about finishing like sampras...lol. But i am finishing properly now and that is very important to protecting my wrist. So it all goes hand in hand.

The biggest issue for me serving was the timing of the racquet drop and toss..that is what finally got to my wrist and injured it. This regrooving of the swingpath and racquet prep has enabled me to serve properly and play pain free.

 

[Fay]

I had some pronation issues on serve due to way too much baseball playing in which I threw sidearm (shortstop), then played lacrosse and shot with some of the same motion.

This resulted in an unstable wrist on serve and made injury a lot easier. In working past this, I have been retraining myself to use a loose arm and whip through the ball. I find that part easy to grasp, but getting it consistent was tough.

Anyway, I was working on hitting more of a kick serve..just hitting up on the ball and over it. What I started to notice was that this was allowing me to pronate through the ball properly and finish with the racquet butt end up pointed up. Once I got this part down, I started noticing that I was able to hit some rather big serves and was not just limited to kickers.

The adjustment I made was visualizing the racquet face facing my back on the racquet drop and leading with the blade. Instead of thinking of chopping the ball in half with the blade, I thought about attacking the ball with the leading edge basically being the 3 o clock area on the racquet face. It is tough to describe, but basically how you would hit a kick serve. I was wiping up the back and through the ball instead of just brushing it with spin.

My old motion consistent of my racquet coming at the ball with the edge leading, but the racquet was not laying across my back, but more straight behind me. This seemed to make it tough to control the swing up to contact and proper pronation.

Not sure if this makes sense, but basically the amount of spin and pace plus consistency from this motion seems to really encourage a healthy "snap through" the ball and results in some serious heat and action. Started wondering if this type of service is how many servers hit a flatter ball that still can drop into the box with a lot of pace and accuracy.

I thought I was the only person who started playing tennis to try to get rid of a side arm motion ... I too played ball when I was younger (recreationally) on short stop and threw side arm. when I started playing tennis men said to me "see, women never learn to throw a ball when they are girls ..." I tried to explain I played but they just laughed.

so of course I was determined to fix my serve and after years and baskets of balls and a lot of video-taping I stumbled upon the swing path thing ....and am very glad to see some validation here online.

The added details about the racquet edge are helpful. thanks all for posting the technical stuff here! I had to wade thru so many arguments to get the good stuff, but it was worth it.

 

[Power Player]

Sorry about the derail there. I am glad you liked the info. It has helped me a lot.

Between the swing path, and the proper timing on the racquet drop, I can now serve without damaging my wrist.

 

[HunterST]

No that was never the point. Is all about the swing path, which others seemed to get.

Another tip. I use a abbreviated serve since i had a pretty bad wrist injury and it has helped me out a ton. Before i toss the ball, i have my racquet prepped basically.

Well the way i prep my racquet means a lot to getting the timing right. So what i did today was focus on that. I basically focused on my serving arm starting high and elbow bent 90 degrees so the racquet was already behind my head and simply just dropped down on the toss and swung up to contact.

This results in huge flat serves that require very little effort. From the ball bounce i am guessing some serves cleared the magical 100 mph mark, and i have not totally dialed in my kneed bend or toss placement.

I had a huge serve as a junior and it was all technically wrong, but i could still serve massively. When you are a kid, your body does not care, but once you hit around 25 or so, it starts to get angry. So this has been a complete service rebuild, which is very difficult to do when you are used to hitting bombs and bullying people with a huge first serve.

I never have once thought about finishing like sampras...lol. But i am finishing properly now and that is very important to protecting my wrist. So it all goes hand in hand.

The biggest issue for me serving was the timing of the racquet drop and toss..that is what finally got to my wrist and injured it. This regrooving of the swingpath and racquet prep has enabled me to serve properly and play pain free.

Can you point to a video that shows what you're referring to? I have some ideas of what you're talking about, but it's tough to be sure when I'm just going off of a textual description.