Switch to a lighter racket or stick with my current sticks?
- Thread starter nickb
- Start date
0d1n
Hall of Fame
If you love the Fischers but are bothered by the weight why don't you just get some in your right grip size so that the extra weight for enlarging the grip isn't needed instead of changing to a Radical and then weighting that one up ...etc. Too complicated ... I like simple things. Get some Fischers in your right grip size, and you will have your "lighter" sticks in a flash.
nickb
Banned
Even in stock form the Fischers will swing much heavier than a Radical with 10 grams on the handle...the fischers dont swing that easy.
Nick
0d1n
Hall of Fame
Hmmm OK...
I had the 330 grams Black/Red/White Pro no 1 (1 gen older than your black red ones I think), and even though this one was 330 grams unstrung it swung only slightly heavier than a LM Radical I thought. The added mass was noticeable though ...
I would think yours would swing pretty similarly stock ... and with some 10-15 grams less in mass than your "sleeved" ones... it WILL count in a long match (even if the difference is in the handle).
I actually find the MSpeed 320 grams one for example to be more maneuverable than the LM Radical...mainly due to balance and low swing weight. Your version of Pro no 1 might swing heavier than the MSpeeds and/or the black/red/white version though ... I don't know...even though the specs I've seen on the internet give it a pretty low SW rating.
ChappyOnIce
New User
Nick,
My experience is quite the opposite. Most of the top players at my club tend to use the sticks at are 320 - 350 grams and 5 - 10 pts head light.
I have 2 FXP Heat's which are pretty light out of the gate at 285 grams unstrung. Over the course of the last year I have added lead tape and weight in the handle and found that at 340 grams (strung) with 8 pts head light, I can hit a much more solid ball, have more controlled and firmer volleys, and less arm pain after long sessions. I'm 40, 5'8", and 150 pounds soaking wet.
I also noticed that many/most of the best doubles players on tour use a heavier than normal racquet which is very head light.
If you want to experiment, go out and get an older model lightweight frame that you can customize and experiment with weight. This way you can always adjust later.
nickb
Banned
Its interesting really what type of rackets the best players in my area use....here are some examples:
Player 1- Played wimbledon and got to final of junior dubs
ure driveplayer 2- Ex world ranked player whos best was 300- Ncode team
player 3- ex 50 in world U18s- Babolat 255g unstrung
player 4- played wimbledon and was around 400 in world: Slazenger 300g
It amazes me that they can play with those rackets yet still play at an very very high level winning tournaments. They all say that there is no reason to use a heavier stick.
Ive just bought a head LM radical so will hit with it for a week and see what happens.
Cheers
Nick
ChappyOnIce
New User
You might find that the added weight in a heavier frame will be better on your arm/elbow when coaching all day. Will you be hitting balls all day pretty heavily? Or will you mostly be demostrating and feeding?
nickb
Banned
caesar66
Professional
Hey nick, you may find the LM radical to your liking, but I found it to have a hollow, unstable feel. I highly recommend trying out the iradical mp, to me its a much more solid stick. I used to use the OS, but got ahold of a midplus and played for a while back to back with the lm midplus and liked the I alot better. just a thought.
HyperHorse
Banned
Dude what's your height/weight???
Personally I'd say stick with the heavier frames and hit the weights room.
Also what grip do you use on the forehand?
Do you use the multi segmented backswing on the forehand?
Personally I'd say stick with the heavier frames and hit the weights room.
Also what grip do you use on the forehand?
Do you use the multi segmented backswing on the forehand?
Nick,
I have never hit with the Fischer's you are talking about but if it is anything like the newer Pro 1's then it is quite low powered. Perhaps the combination of the low powered racquet with what I consider to be a low powered string (Poly) is causing you to have to swing hard enough to generate pace that you are tiring early. Have you tried a string setup that gives you a little more pace so that you can swing at an easier speed?
The other thing you haven't mentioned is whether you train with weights or not. This can make a huge difference in your endurance. A stronger muscle will have more endurance than a weaker one. Perhaps throwing around a few weights if you don't already could make the use of your current setup easier on your body and give you better endurance.
Good luck,
Greg
I have never hit with the Fischer's you are talking about but if it is anything like the newer Pro 1's then it is quite low powered. Perhaps the combination of the low powered racquet with what I consider to be a low powered string (Poly) is causing you to have to swing hard enough to generate pace that you are tiring early. Have you tried a string setup that gives you a little more pace so that you can swing at an easier speed?
The other thing you haven't mentioned is whether you train with weights or not. This can make a huge difference in your endurance. A stronger muscle will have more endurance than a weaker one. Perhaps throwing around a few weights if you don't already could make the use of your current setup easier on your body and give you better endurance.
Good luck,
Greg
0d1n
Hall of Fame
I found it "hollow" as well, but not "unstable" (for it's weight class I thought it was pretty damn stable). I actually think it's more stable than the I version due to higher swing weight/weight and it definitely is more powerful.
Overall I also preferred the I version because of the feel/feedback, and I think with just A BIT of weight the power/stability problem would be solved. They are pretty hard to find though...so I'm not sure if that would help the OP.
Haven't yet hit with the "microgel version" but people seem to say that the "feel" is better than the LM/FXP...but since "feel" is so subjective I will have to test it myself
.
nickb
Banned
I hit with a nearly western grip...but playing most of my tennis on indoor carpet has caused my forehand to be much flatter than I would like.
On the multi segmented backswing: I would say yes ( I have a modern style of forehand)...my forehand is quite wristy and I hit with a closed racket face.
Im around 6.1 ft
Not sure on the weight right now...I have a thin build.
Nick
nickb
Banned
Yeah they are low powered...ive used multis, guts and syn guts in there but they break really fast and I get sick of stringing. I really like the ALU Power so wouldnt want to change that.
I dont do any weight lifting but will be starting soon..
Nick
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Are you sure these guys don't have their stock racquets weighed up somehow, like maybe lead under the bumper or inside the handle? Have you actually weighed their racquets?Its interesting really what type of rackets the best players in my area use....here are some examples:
Player 1- Played wimbledon and got to final of junior dubs
player 2- Ex world ranked player whos best was 300- Ncode team
player 3- ex 50 in world U18s- Babolat 255g unstrung
player 4- played wimbledon and was around 400 in world: Slazenger 300g
It amazes me that they can play with those rackets yet still play at an very very high level winning tournaments. They all say that there is no reason to use a heavier stick.
Ive just bought a head LM radical so will hit with it for a week and see what happens.
Cheers
Nick
nickb
Banned
No lead...just stock rackets. They all love light rackets...they will use anything under 320g and just take the best sponsorship deal that includes a few light sticks. One guy uses a babolat z lite and hits a very very heavy ball...
I know they are stock as ive played with each of the rackets.
Nick
skraggle
Professional
One more thing:
JollyRoger posted a really informative guide to racquet selection. Definitely helped me look at things in a new way:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=160692
JollyRoger posted a really informative guide to racquet selection. Definitely helped me look at things in a new way:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=160692
ChappyOnIce
New User
I know that pros are...well...pros, but you can see the weight of their sticks in this thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=48880
Not a single one under 300 grams and the mean is close to 350. I understand you are not a pro, but this tells me that you really need more heft to compete at that level.
Some people overlook other aspects of their game like racquet preparation and having compact backswings...not that you do, just making suggestions.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=48880
Not a single one under 300 grams and the mean is close to 350. I understand you are not a pro, but this tells me that you really need more heft to compete at that level.
Some people overlook other aspects of their game like racquet preparation and having compact backswings...not that you do, just making suggestions.
This thread just goes to show that different players like/use different weighted frames depending on their background, ability and type of swing. Quite a few "Open" level players that I hit with use sticks that are between 12-13 ounces. A friend of mine played the Satellite circuit and is at least a 6.0 and he uses a weighted nCode 95 to about 13.5 ounces. He's ranked in doubles. Another friend is a top player in the region and he uses an oversize, sub 11 oz. lightweight racquet that is about 8 years old. I see all kinds of weights and head sizes at tournaments and I do not think that you can really make many generalizations re: this issue. The range of frames used by very good players is huge.
nickb
Banned
Alafter
Hall of Fame
Good luck!
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
Plain and simple switch to a lighter stick - Try the 300 Dunlop, MG Radical mp, Babolat Storm & if the power is not there, then try the Wilson N or K Pro, O3 wht..etc.
joe1987
Semi-Pro
Hey nick, I had the same problem as you. I went from my Lm radical to a n90. It was very stable and I really liked it but its gave me a slight elbow pain and was not a flickable as the Lm radical. My game was moving more towards double so I switched back. What I didn't like was that my shots lost some weight to it but I could move my racket faster and hence better reaction time which was especially important in doubles.
I recommend that you try some other rackets as well. Asian k90, yonex ns rq7, k or n blades. I didn't like prince's 03 rackets and I've never tried dunlops but coming from the Lm rad. I think you may like those I suggested.
I recommend that you try some other rackets as well. Asian k90, yonex ns rq7, k or n blades. I didn't like prince's 03 rackets and I've never tried dunlops but coming from the Lm rad. I think you may like those I suggested.
A lot of it has to do with swingweight IMO. I have tried to "go light" over the years and got nothing but poor results and arm injury. Whipping around an 11oz stick did me no good against big hitters or good competition. That said, some 11 oz'ish frames have nice swingweights at around 320 which can work for me. I generally play better, with good arm comfort, with a racquet in the 12 oz. range with a swingweight at 320 +/- 3 or 4. Going light didn't work for me at all - and I tried several times. However, like one of the other poster's said......the range in weights and sizes of frames being used by good players is pretty wide.
nickb
Banned
I would never go back to a midsize head and have tried all the K/N rackets without any luck...I think the LM Radical is my last hope!
The radical felt nice when playing dubs last week so im looking foreward to hitting with it and playing some singles 2night.
Nick
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Hey nick, what's the overall change that's going on? Are you a serve and volleyer in the process of adopting some more baselining in your game? Fill us in here because it sounds like you are going into a phase that I just came out of. I used the heavy Wilson 6.1 Classics for a long time and they worked well for me as a S&V player, but I tried lighter racquets when I decided to expand my proficiency at the baseline... I even used the LM Radical for a while.
One thing that I found in my search was that I couldn't function up at net with a frame that was too light for me, but I'm a knuclehead and it took me a lot of time and racquets to work that out. If you're trying to hang with the baseline bangers until you can get to the net, you're still going to need to be confident with your volleys - your new Radical may deliver that for you, but I'd just caution you to be careful about giving away some of your strength, particularly your volley abilities.
My new frames are only two or three tenths of an ounce lighter than my old Wilson's and they can plow volleys and half-volleys great, but their extra flex has given me a new lease on life at the baseline. So that's me... Just wanted to encourage you avoid an expensive trade-off in your game. Good luck with that new bat!
One thing that I found in my search was that I couldn't function up at net with a frame that was too light for me, but I'm a knuclehead and it took me a lot of time and racquets to work that out. If you're trying to hang with the baseline bangers until you can get to the net, you're still going to need to be confident with your volleys - your new Radical may deliver that for you, but I'd just caution you to be careful about giving away some of your strength, particularly your volley abilities.
My new frames are only two or three tenths of an ounce lighter than my old Wilson's and they can plow volleys and half-volleys great, but their extra flex has given me a new lease on life at the baseline. So that's me... Just wanted to encourage you avoid an expensive trade-off in your game. Good luck with that new bat!
nickb
Banned
Cheers...I do S and V most of the time and have very good volleys. Sounds like im similar to you..im trying to stay back against better players and finish off the point at net (I sometimes get passed often by very good players)..
Have just had my first session with the LM rad..see below..
Nick
nickb
Banned
First session
Just had a 3 hour hit with my LM Radical and it went very well...
For the first 1.5 hours I hit like complete shi*t...I was missing everything and it felt like the racket had no stability and was getting knocked around. I was ready to put the racket back in the bag when I realised my backswing was shorter than usual and started taking bigger cuts at the ball/hitting more spin. From then on I played awesome...
At the 1.5 hour mark I had lost a set and was down 4-0 in the second..I was going mad at the Radical!...after I adjusted my swing and got used to volleying with it I came back and won the 2nd set 7-5. Lost the 3rd 6-4 but it was a great set.
The main issue I had in my mind before was the volleys with a lighter racket...I was really suprised...I found the LM great at net and I hit some of the best touch shots ive ever hit. Another thing I noticed was no double faults and more spin on the 2nd serve. I can really go after my serve with the LM and made put aways easier at net.
Oh and I felt fresh after...not tired like usual.
Im 60-70% sure im gonna switch and get some more LMs but will spend a good week playing some dubs and singles...then see what happens.
Think I need to drop the string tension to 53lbs as the ALU felt a bit stiff in the dense string pattern...I may also go hybrid.
Cheers
Nick
Just had a 3 hour hit with my LM Radical and it went very well...
For the first 1.5 hours I hit like complete shi*t...I was missing everything and it felt like the racket had no stability and was getting knocked around. I was ready to put the racket back in the bag when I realised my backswing was shorter than usual and started taking bigger cuts at the ball/hitting more spin. From then on I played awesome...
At the 1.5 hour mark I had lost a set and was down 4-0 in the second..I was going mad at the Radical!...after I adjusted my swing and got used to volleying with it I came back and won the 2nd set 7-5. Lost the 3rd 6-4 but it was a great set.
The main issue I had in my mind before was the volleys with a lighter racket...I was really suprised...I found the LM great at net and I hit some of the best touch shots ive ever hit. Another thing I noticed was no double faults and more spin on the 2nd serve. I can really go after my serve with the LM and made put aways easier at net.
Oh and I felt fresh after...not tired like usual.
Im 60-70% sure im gonna switch and get some more LMs but will spend a good week playing some dubs and singles...then see what happens.
Think I need to drop the string tension to 53lbs as the ALU felt a bit stiff in the dense string pattern...I may also go hybrid.
Cheers
Nick
nick, isn't the swingweight of the LM Radical something like 325? I always thought that the swingweight of the red/black Fischer Pro 1's were about 311 or so...maybe since you have the heat sleeve on it the swingweight is around 320+. That said, I am surprised that you feel fresher using the Rads vs the Pro #1's. If anything it should be the other way around. I always go by swingweight, but maybe you are on to something - that the static weight can effect your fatigue factor as well. On the flip side though, I believe that swingweight is an important factor in determining maneuverability. Best of luck!
nickb
Banned
Not sure what SW my Fischers are...the Radical felt very light to swing when compared. At first I just could not time the ball....
I have a heat sleeve on the Rad was well....the Fischer feels very difficult to get around the court in comparison. I quite like the feel of the LM as well...
Nick
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Moya has a ton of weight in the head, I would say his swingweight is comprable to my 14 oz bats.
J
nickb
Banned
OK ive made up my mind...im sticking with my Fischers and doing some gym.
The LM Radial is stable for its weight but not stable enough for me (returns mostly) and the fischers have sooo much more feel.
I may drop the poly and go to a softer string for some more pop...
Thanks to everybody that posted!
Nick
The LM Radial is stable for its weight but not stable enough for me (returns mostly) and the fischers have sooo much more feel.
I may drop the poly and go to a softer string for some more pop...
Thanks to everybody that posted!
Nick
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
nickb
Banned
Duzza
Legend
Wow....I had no idea you were 18. I imagined you were like in your 30s.....I've got nothing to say about your racquets, sorry...
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Ive been using the fischers for over 3 months
I stand by my claim, see below.
After using mids for 2 years (N90/K90/PS85) I switched to a MP this year and planned never to go back...this week I have been hitting with the Yonex RDX500 Mid and well im hooked on the racket.....pure BUTTER! At first it felt too flexy but after a day everything clicked....good serves, amazing slice, solid at net, great from the baseline and super comfortable. My god ive missed hitting my 1HBH with a mid!
Can I join?
Nick
hahaha...the RDX lasted 3 days....
yes you were right about the Fischers (also hated the grip shape)LOL
From early december. You heard it here first, before the end of Feb NickB will play a mid again, and cheat on his fischers.
J
nickb
Banned
OK so I have used other frames for like 2 days LOL
BTW smashed 1 of my rackets tonight...not happy
Nick
The Ripper
Semi-Pro
I have been demoing a Head FXP Prestige Mid and a KFactor 95 Team the last few days. Having come from a K90 at 13 oz. both felt lighter and easier to deal with. I really like the Prestige, very similar to the K90 but lower swingweight, more forgiving 93" head. Feels very comfortable, I can put the ball wherever I want it and serves are fantastic - plenty of speed and weight, and can put them on a dime! That's the good news. I then played a set with the KFactor team. Placement very good, perhaps not quite as accurate as the Prestige, serves accurate and easy to put in, but not as heavy, although probably faster. The big difference, I realized, was that I had time to "think" when playing with the K95! When setting up for my shot, I had time to think about my mechanics, where exactly I wanted to put the ball, what my opponent was doing, etc., etc. I haven't had that experience in quite awhile. So even though I can play very well with the heavier, smaller racket, the lower SW and lighter racket gave me more time, which, against a more aggressive player I would need to win - a ha!
So does that make sense? The guys playing 4.5-5.0 and above, do they have time to consider their return (most of the time), or are they always hitting reflexively with no time to consider? My guess is they have time to make decisions and adjustments before committing to their shot. Am I on the right track?
So does that make sense? The guys playing 4.5-5.0 and above, do they have time to consider their return (most of the time), or are they always hitting reflexively with no time to consider? My guess is they have time to make decisions and adjustments before committing to their shot. Am I on the right track?
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Among higher level players, there are two schools of returners. Guessers, and reactors.
I am a reactor, I see it and hit it. I may cheat over if you are having trouble serving to certain locations, but for the most part I react.
Then there are guessers, who try to figure out where you are going, and with what serve, and sit on that, and react to everything else.
At higher levels of play you pretty much decide what you are going to do with what ball before you dig in to return, there is no time to be thinking as the ball is comming through the air, with the rare exception of guys that get by at a high level with a lame serve.
Pretty much do your thinking before you are in the ready position, split step as the toss peaks, and then letter fly.
J
1012007
Hall of Fame
BTW smashed 1 of my rackets tonight...not happy
Nick
I smashed an old Wilson 6.2 hyper hammer few days back. Playing "dubs" and i smashed the ball for a winner off a serve. The frame just snapped. Oh well it was an old racket
If a returner is guessing , that means they are in over their head and trying to return the serves of someone who is significantly better than they are. You can, however, read some servers based upon their ball toss.
Also many players dont decide what return they are going to hit before the serve when they are playing someone with a good serve. if you are playing someone with a lame or average serve you can pull this off, but against a better server you are usually just reacting and trying to get the ball back to a part of the court where he cant put your return away or punish it
