Switch to a two hander?

[vin]

I am having some major indecision on my backhand. I'd really appreciate anyone's insight here.

I've been using a one handed topspin backhand for the past year and a half. I hit it well and for the most part it comes fairly natural. It sometimes breaks down under pressure, but I know why and know it can be fixed.

Keep in mind that I already have a slice backhand so the advantages of a slice backhand over a two hander don't really apply here.

I guess there's really three things to consider. How it suits my game, how effective I am with it, and how it adds to my enjoyment of the game.

My game: I try to be an all court player, but it is my preference and my strength to be aggressive from the baseline. I think a two hander would suit my game better because it is a more stable and compact stroke which makes it easier to deal with pace and hit with power more consistently. I get good power with my one hander, but not consistently. I also sometimes have trouble dealing with pace and wide balls with the one hander.

In addition, I prefer driving the ball with topspin over slicing it. The two hander would give me this option for high balls.

How effective: Today I was playing points with the two hander and was able to hold my ground during fast cross court rallies. I was returning serve ok with it also. I felt like it was easier to deal with pace and high balls, but harder to generate my own pace and hit passing shots. Of course I was hitting some wimpy shots into the net and sailing some into the back curtain, but overall I was impressed with how well I was hitting it for the first time in 11 years.

Looking forward, it seems like a more dependable shot because even if it breaks down, it seems like there's still good chance to hit a half way decent shot. The one hander seems to be more all or nothing. If it breaks down slightly, forget about it.

Enjoyment: I have to say that the one hander is much more fun and satisfying to hit (when hit well), but I have a good feeling that winning with a two hander would be a lot more fun than losing with a one hander.

So, for those that have endured my babbling, here are some questions:

Should I pursue this switch? If so, how should I go about incorporating the two hander into matches? My USTA league starts next weekend!

Is it really true that the two hander is typically a more powerful and aggressive stroke?

What is the best grip combination? I seem to like semi western on top and continental on bottom. Eastern on top seems to be popular as well?

 

[Power Game]

I made the switch from a onehander this summer. I had lots of power and control with the one hander but sometimes it got inconsistent.
The reasons I switched are:
1. Handling high balls (lots of spin and kick at college) is easier with 2 hands. With 1 hand I could only neutralize the ball, but I can be aggressive with 2 hands.
2. Service returns. It's hard to rip serve returns with one hand, with 2 hands it is much easier because it lets you stay very compact and hit the ball

I still use the one hander for slice and defense. It is really good to be able to hit both...

 

[Rickson]

Don't do it, Vin. You have a solid 1hbh already and it's not worth ditching right now. I've seen 2 solid backhanders go toe to toe, Justine Henin-Herdenne and Lindsay Davenport, and Justine overpowered Lindsay easily with her 1hbh. The 1hbh is a trickier shot to master, but it can be done. Keep practicing the 1hbh and when you have your bad days, just don't frustrate yourself and play the backhand as best you can that day. The 1hbh is a great shot and I know you can make it more dependable than it is now. Don't give up on it just because you had a few bad games with it. Think of all the days when it was on and you had great games with it.

 

[vinouspleasure]

changing to two hander

Many, many years ago, during my college years, I taught tennis. I figured I should learn to hit a decent two hander if I was going to teach both one-handed and two-handed and to this day, after an hour of hitting them, I can hit a nice two hander. Here are my thoughts:

- It's not as easy to switch as it seems. Initial success is often hard to maintain.

- You might learn to hit an open stance one hander to help with the wide balls. I find this gives me more time. Also, I wonder if you're preparing early enough?

- I would not suggest trying this in your usta league. Give yourself a reasonable time frame and game plan to make the switch before trying this in a league. Personally, I wouldn't even be thinking about trying it in a match right now. I'd do something like this:
- take 6 half hour lessons with a pro over the course of 3 weeks.
- In between lessons, hit buckets of ball on your own.
- Practice in front of a mirror at night.
- Imagine yourself hitting good strokes for 10 minutes a day.
- Hit a against a ball machine.
- Once you are able to hit well against a ball machine, rally with a friend.
- Once you;re able to rally with a friend, play points on the ground, where you have to hit nothing but backhands.
- Once you're happy wiht that, play some easy practice matches.

well, that's my advice, I'm sure others will have their own ideas.

 

[Eric Matuszewski]

Hey vin, happy holidays,

I started making the switch about a year ago and it's now clearly my best shot. My one hander was my best shot but I frequently got killed with it on the run and returning serves.

The switch to 2hands gave me great improvements on the run on the return and in general consistency as evidenced by video tape (I can't believe I won with my 1 hander when I watch those tapes and compare to the new tapes). New me would kill old me no question. If only I had made this switch 10yrs ago.

The only con was that I don't have the feel for the backhand volley anymore. (I never came in that much anyway though so it wasn't a big loss).

the transition to 2 hands took many stages (Alot of work, but very satisfying to see the changes happening).

At first I couldn't imagine being able to hit a 2 hander as hard, but eventually the power came along with the extra benefits.

I found that the biggest challenge was getting my left hip and arm to do more of the work (with the one hander this side didn't do much for me).

If you can hit open stance topspin one handers on the run you'll have an easier time with the switch than I did. (You'll have to use that left leg more like a two hander).

Once I conquered that there were other parts but that was the biggest hurdle.

Using slow motion clips of Safin, Ferrero, Coria and Agassi gave me alot of the info I needed and I wouldn't have been able to make this switch without a ball machine. (It took alot of repition on a consistent basis).

 

[JoostT]

Hey vin, happy holidays,
If you can hit open stance topspin one handers on the run you'll have an easier time with the switch than I did. (You'll have to use that left leg more like a two hander).

If you could hit open stance topspin one handers you would not have needed to switch to a two hander .

 

[Eric Matuszewski]

Very true Joost, I'm glad someone is paying attention.

The only missing shot left if you had the topspin open stance on the run with one hand would then be the consistent aggressive topspin/flat serve returns (fast grip change).

Not that it's impossible to be aggressive with the one hander, but just that it works less frequently when used in this circumstance (this opportunity comes around frequently even for non net rushers, so if you can take advantage of it you increase your chance of winning greatly).

If the server always serves your backhand on second serves there's less of an issue. (You just get your grip early and take a crack). But most of us aren't that lucky.


I'll repeat the traditional analysis of the question which I've found holds true thru my own experiment:

POTENTIALLY... 2 handers get more break chances (easier response to serves), 1 handers hold easier (more likely to benefit from serving by having a confident volley to end the point immediately on weak returns).

 

[Xevoius]

Vin,

I have felt this way a couple of times within the last six months and it is probably because I play against 3 players with really strong two-handed backhand strokes. One smashes service returns down my throat and the other two just don't make many mistakes and use nice short strokes.

I personally think that the one-hander has more potential but takes more work to become a trusted consistent shot. My god, decent backhand service returns are tough to make for me especially when the player starts kicking it high.

I actually really tried to switch for about 2 months and could get great topspin but I never managed to get even 3/4 of the pace that I could get with my one-hander. I even started out playing tennis with a two-hander and cannot remember why I switched in the first place (probably becuase my two-hander sucked too).

Anyways my current thinking is this, either way I need to stick to one shot and it seems that my one hander has shown more potential (when it is on) so I need to spend more time hitting this shot by not running around it and try to consciously make it one of my weapons. I am now going to rate my game on the level of my backhand because I know the 5.0 players are going to exploit the crap out of it. I suggest taking the time you would spend on developing your two-hander in getting your one-hander up to speed.

Don't forget the fact that the one-hander is a very hard to read shot if you rotate your shoulders properly and that can give you a great advantage. That and the fact that most of the two-handers that I know secretly wish they could use a one-hander give you the mental edge .

Good luck and keep us informed on what you decide on and your progress.

 

[Eric Matuszewski]

Quote:
Today I was playing points with the two hander and was able to hold my ground during fast cross court rallies. I was returning serve ok with it also. I felt like it was easier to deal with pace and high balls, but harder to generate my own pace and hit passing shots.

I had the exact same experience when I started.

There are some tricks to the grip, if you get blisters on your left hand there are some changes you need to make. (Inside thumb area, Inside pointer finger, pads below ring finger). The pads one was the most frustrating (you fix it by changing the position of the fat on the hand so its farther counter clockwise and not stretched which feels strange at first because your pushing on the plane with your palm and less with the pads (unlike the forehand).

 

[Rickson]

I can actually hit with both to this day, but I use the 1hbh all the time these days because I always wind up in a closed stance on the backhand side. I also hold the racquet by the throat instead of hand over hand like I used to so my preparation also has me leaning to the 1hbh. I don't understand why you'd switch from a 1hbh to a 2hbh, but if it's what you want to do, who am I to stop you? The 2hbh has some advantages on late balls and high balls, but the 1hbh has advantages on the opposite, early balls and low balls. Do what you think is best for you, but my opinion is to stick with the 1hbh.

 

[papa]

Well, there are advantages to both as BB and others have stated for a long time. I tried to use the one-handed approach last summer ----- hit thousands of balls but I find that I'm more comfortable with two-hands. I think if you use two-hands you should try and keep the hands together.

Not sure I understand Eric's comments about the "fat" on the hands. If your hands get sore, wear gloves - golf gloves.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Quote: (you fix it by changing the position of the fat on the hand so its farther counter clockwise and not stretched which feels strange at first because your pushing on the plane with your palm and less with the pads (unlike the forehand).

Eric, you lost me on that one. Assuming you're righthanded, are you talking about a grip change with your left hand, or a different way of holding onto the handle altogether?

Also, in emphasizing the PALM of your hand, aren't you referring to an Eastern forehand grip with the left hand (which is a common left-hand grip for a right-handed two hand backhand)?

Could you clear that "fix-it" tip up?...thanks

 

[jun]

I was thinking about switching to two hander during the summer. I had been using one hander for past 5~7 years. I predominantly sliced and my topspin one hander was a liability. I couldn't generate much swing speed, and just poor preparation and all.

I could hit ok two hander w/o much practice, but I decided not to. If I was going to switch to two hander, I wanted my two hander to be as good as my forehand. I didn't want some so-so two hander. Then I realized that it would take a lot of time to develop strong two hander.

My one hander improved a lot and is ok shot now, and I am pretty happy with it, although it still needs a lot of work.

If you make the decision, then stick with it and don't look back. I think that's the MOST IMPORTANT PART of it. I may have switched if I had time and money to spend on my two hander. But I didn't. So I stuck with one hander, and try to make it better and try to make my forehand and slice bh much stronger to cover it up.

 

[Eric Matuszewski]

Semi-western describes bone placement only, it does not include the specifics on how the skin (which gets loose and can move when you close your hand even slightly) needs to be placed when you grip the backhand.

Here's a protocol that might illustrate "hand fat" and grip.
Bad version=blistering:
with the aid of the right hand hold the racket tightly against the FINGERS first.

slide while maintaining grip/skin contact TOWARD WRIST untill the grip is placed at semi-western. THIS WILL CAUSE BLISTERING.

Better version =No blistering on ring finger pad.
start grip on PALM directly BELOW THUMB and while keeping contact with skin move the grip toward FINGERS until semi-western is reached. The skin between fingers and palm will now be loose and will not blister when the racket twists (clockwise) because of "slack".

Let me know if this is clear enough.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Vin,

I dont know about this. You have a good onehander for what it is for. However, this is certainly up to you. The onehander is a shot that is a lot like a bow and arrow. Although some can generate a significant amount of pace, the onehander is a great shot for placement shots while using the forehand to close.

The biggest key to the onehander is knowing you need to mix it up with the backhand slice. It is a very pretty stroke to power through that high bouncing ball with a onehander as you rise with the shot. However, in those situations a slice is also a good choice which you see Federer go to often. Federer is a master at mixing up that backhand and with obviously great success.

The onehander allows you to develop a very good all-court game which means you can incorporate different styles in your game plan if needed.

If you do switch the twohander and your backhand volleys go astray, dont be afraid to volley with a twohanded backhand. The hands need to be on the grip very lightly. I do this often and can really pound the backhand volley. I have never had a problem with reach except when I am out of shape but the reach issue was more of a conditioning problem then a stroke problem.

When hitting the twohander the key is to relax the hands and arms. Let the shoulders do the work and allow the hands to bring the racquet into the ball and go through while finishing high!

Make sure you rotate your front shoulder back to your chin for the backswing, then let the dog out, as you go through the ball allow your back shoulder to touch your chin BEFORE you break off. BIG KEY HERE!!!!

When you rotate your shoulders properly and have a forward to open stance, it helps your hips move freely. Also, when you complete the stroke come around with the back foot to begin recovery. This ensures you stayed in the stroke and did not cheat or break off too soon.

Practice with balls hit very slowly to you to help you gain a relaxed smooth stroke. When improving your stroke a fast paced ball hit to you can (without you knowing it) tense up your muscles. This can delay the education your body needs to have a smooth stroke when you need it most - during match situations.

 

[vin]

Thank you everyone for your opinions. This is certainly not going to be a clear cut decision.

I guess my primary worry is that when I start competing with 4.5/5.0 players, my one hander will be a liability on the baseline and on returns. And I'm not excited about resorting to slice to make up for the short comings.

I recorded a match I played this morning - one set using a two hander and the other using my one hander. Maybe I'll post some clips tonight for you guys to see what I have to work with.

When I play most 3.5/4.0 players, I can handle just about anything on the backhand side. And I'm actually quite good at passing with my one hander, both down the line and cross court. And as for power, sometimes I hit the ball so hard and with such little effort that I lose focus because I am so astonished that the ball I hit came from my swing.

However, when I hit with a 4.5/5.0 player that can pound the ball to my backhand side, I am so late that I can barely even get the ball back in play. Maybe this can be fixed and is not a good reason for switching? I also haven't had much opportunity to hit with players like this to get better at it.

Eric, your story is very inspiring and highlights the exact reasons why I would want to switch. On the other hand, BB, the fact that you prefer the two hander and think it's a superior stroke but still think I shouldn't switch has a big influence. With all the advice I have taken from you, you're the closest thing I've had to a coach.

BB, as you said, one of the keys to an effective one hander is mixing in slice. But my inherit preference is to pound the ball cross court (within reason of course) until I get a weak response. Can a one hander (topspin) really be effective at that? Or maybe this is not really a good way to play, but it sure is the way I like to play.

Or maybe I should redirect my attention to improving my slice which is long overdue. Maybe I'll like it better if I'm more effective with it.

I hate indecision.

 

[Rickson]

Mix it up, Vin. Slice and topspin should give you a good mix. I had trouble with balls that land behind me too, but since I started slicing them back, I've had a lot more success.

 

[JoostT]

The only missing shot left if you had the topspin open stance on the run with one hand would then be the consistent aggressive topspin/flat serve returns (fast grip change).

Not that it's impossible to be aggressive with the one hander, but just that it works less frequently when used in this circumstance (this opportunity comes around frequently even for non net rushers, so if you can take advantage of it you increase your chance of winning greatly).

If the server always serves your backhand on second serves there's less of an issue. (You just get your grip early and take a crack). But most of us aren't that lucky.

I am always waiting with my backhandgrip when returning serve. I do that because I can hit a forehand with my backhandgrip if realy rushed. I just don't prefer to use such an extreme western grip...

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Thank you everyone for your opinions. This is certainly not going to be a clear cut decision.

I guess my primary worry is that when I start competing with 4.5/5.0 players, my one hander will be a liability on the baseline and on returns. And I'm not excited about resorting to slice to make up for the short comings.

I recorded a match I played this morning - one set using a two hander and the other using my one hander. Maybe I'll post some clips tonight for you guys to see what I have to work with.

When I play most 3.5/4.0 players, I can handle just about anything on the backhand side. And I'm actually quite good at passing with my one hander, both down the line and cross court. And as for power, sometimes I hit the ball so hard and with such little effort that I lose focus because I am so astonished that the ball I hit came from my swing.

However, when I hit with a 4.5/5.0 player that can pound the ball to my backhand side, I am so late that I can barely even get the ball back in play. Maybe this can be fixed and is not a good reason for switching? I also haven't had much opportunity to hit with players like this to get better at it.

Eric, your story is very inspiring and highlights the exact reasons why I would want to switch. On the other hand, BB, the fact that you prefer the two hander and think it's a superior stroke but still think I shouldn't switch has a big influence. With all the advice I have taken from you, you're the closest thing I've had to a coach.

BB, as you said, one of the keys to an effective one hander is mixing in slice. But my inherit preference is to pound the ball cross court (within reason of course) until I get a weak response. Can a one hander (topspin) really be effective at that? Or maybe this is not really a good way to play, but it sure is the way I like to play.

Or maybe I should redirect my attention to improving my slice which is long overdue. Maybe I'll like it better if I'm more effective with it.

I hate indecision.

I do prefer the twohander for many reasons. But if the player can hit a onehander well, I would never try to influence the player to change unless it was very clear they should.

Yes, you can develop an excellent crosscourt onehanded backhand and pound the thing. I find the secret is in timing. In fact, the key to a very good onehander is timing - period. I find the key to a very good twohander is maintaining your balance and not rotating out of the shot. Both require good footwork and contact points accorrding to the player.

If you really want to put steam on the ball for the onehander I would suggest you learning to employ a delicate turning of the forearm just before contact. If you learn to strengthen the grip from the thumb side you can learn to go through while coming up the back of the ball firmly for some incredible topspin.

I do practice my onehander to keep it somewhat there. I need it for demonstration and rallies. I can really point the butt cap at the ball as I swing forward and then release the head of the racquet into the contact zone with a little forearm turn. If timed right, man can you smack the living daylights out of the ball. Sending it crosscourt is just a matter fo timing and a little bit of where you make contact with the ball!

What I love about the twohander is disguise. I can freeze my intentions until the last second. I also like it when I am pulled out wide and have a very short backstroke but can rip it with the "snap" or force of the wrists. Really surprises the heck out of opponents and sometimes myself. The twohander is definetly the more forgiving of the two on contact points and timing. This is especially handy on service returns. I also like to step in and clock the ball with a topspin twohander. Tremendous velocity can be achieved.

Different strokes for different folks. I must say though everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side!

 

[vin]

if the player can hit a onehander well, I would never try to influence the player to change unless it was very clear they should.

Well, I don't think it's clear at all. I like my one hander, so I'm going to stick with it. Instead of the two hander, I'll work on preparation, high balls, and slice.

Besides, after looking at my video, I realized I have more important things to work on than giving up on a decent backhand. The two strong points of my game - forehand and serve - still need a lot of work. This is certainly not an easy sport!

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[Xevoius]

Vin,

You keep taking the words right out of my head. I am at the same point of starting to compete with solid 5.0 players and all of them use a two hander. They also blast the hell out of their serve returns and seem to be almost as consistent on their backhands as they are on their forehands.

I realized that I can also have effective serve returns if I employ a very simplistic block type backhand that can often catch the server off gaurd especially if the are hitting a big bomber - try not to slice and simply focus on placement and hitting a flat to moderate topspin block shot with not much backswing at all. It will require you to really stand inside the baseline if the player is trying to spin their serves to your backhand which I am assuming all the 5.0s are doing. This problem alone made me question my backhand but I have l fiinally figured out how to deal with it. (BTW, I am still working on this shot)

I have a big loopy Haas type backhand that I learned is not good at all for serve returns but has me hitting winners with early preperation from the baseline. Your one hander should be a weapon from the baseline and if you are not able to get as much heat on it as your forehand you may want to evaluate the mechanics of your shot.

I love the way that the shoulder rotation on my backhands makes my opponents often assume that I am going downn the line when I am really setting up for a cross court blast.

 

[Rickson]

Good for you, Xevious! The 1 hander is a great shot to master.

 

[Yondan]

I am having a similar problem. I am a junior player and I currently use a one handed backhand. However, my two hander is only slightly behind it in pace and control. My backhand currently is my weaker shot and is in no way my go to shot so either backhand i choose it will not become my weapon. I will be playing mostly on clay and slower surfaces and I am not sure if switching to a two handed backhand will improve my consistency and service returns. I know that Kuerten, Gaudio, and Costa have won the FO, but their backhands were their weapons, which is not the same for me. Will a two handed backhand serve me better as consistent shot compared to my one hander?