Switched to Full Western on forehand

Rafael Nadal uses a forehand grip close to a full western, which places the palm of the hand underneath the racket handle:

.

Nadal is on Bevel 5 or 6 (Western grip):

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
sureshs said:
I made an important post-pandemic change. I switched from a SW Federer grip on FH to a Full Western Nadal grip.

So much better. I now believe that hitting topspin and dealing with incoming topspin both REQUIRE the FW grip for stability. It is just impossible to get the timing and racket face angle correct otherwise.
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Uh... Federer uses Eastern grip... Rafa uses SW... you’ve gone to Djokovic’s FH if your heading to western.

trust that I have watched endless video of thier forehands. While each is slightly modified from traditional E/SW/W... they’re each closest to those grips.
 
Chadwix said:
Grip 2 is 4 1/4"?

tenor.gif
Click to expand...
^ This. Rafa clearly doesn’t use Western
 
sureshs said:
Rafael Nadal uses a forehand grip close to a full western, which places the palm of the hand underneath the racket handle:

.

Nadal is on Bevel 5 or 6 (Western grip):

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
His palm is mostly behind the handle on the photo in the article :-D
 
vex said:
Uh... Federer uses Eastern grip... Rafa uses SW... you’ve gone to Djokovic’s FH if your heading to western.

trust that I have watched endless video of thier forehands. While each is slightly modified from traditional E/SW/W... they’re each closest to those grips.
Click to expand...

See my earlier post with links
 
sureshs said:
Rafael Nadal uses a forehand grip close to a full western, which places the palm of the hand underneath the racket handle:

.

Nadal is on Bevel 5 or 6 (Western grip):

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...


A word of caution: it's really hard to hit off of a second bounce with a Western grip.
 
Shroud said:
Well then you might be better friends with the net....

New racquet and I think it might work with the western. Will see. But that heavy high trajectory ball seems to be beyond me. And control. You have all that dude.
Click to expand...

Your shots are fast and through the court, they might be more risky than going higher with more spin but they are way more effective at taking the opponent’s time away. Which is just right for your net rushing style.

I played this super defensive player last night that retrieves everything and floats slices back off both wings, this guy is more than just a pusher. He will come to the net often and if I came in he could hit a lob that landed a foot from the baseline almost every time unless I hit a very good approach shot.

He put it on me 2 and 2 and I had a few more game points I could have had but not many. That’s where my loopy spiny shots were not very effective against this guy. Your faster lower trajectory shots would work much better. Those floaters that he could consistently hit 3/4 court are not easy for me to get enough pace on, so I would end up going for too much and making too many UE.

I can usually out grind most guys but not this fella he was too good for me. That is why I need to get better at hitting the lower trajectory shots. I can hit them decent at times but not consistent enough. Your style shots would be more effective against an opponent like this.
 
Chadwix said:
Grip 2 is 4 1/4"?

tenor.gif
Click to expand...
What can I say, I don't feel like I need to hold a girthy racquet to drum up some self-confidence
sureshs said:
Rafael Nadal uses a forehand grip close to a full western, which places the palm of the hand underneath the racket handle:

.

Nadal is on Bevel 5 or 6 (Western grip):

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
Not only is that site inaccurate, it's also outdated. At best Rafa's used a strong SW grip, otherwise the amount of racquet lag he gets would not be possible.
 
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tlm said:
Your shots are fast and through the court, they might be more risky than going higher with more spin but they are way more effective at taking the opponent’s time away. Which is just right for your net rushing style.

I played this super defensive player last night that retrieves everything and floats slices back off both wings, this guy is more than just a pusher. He will come to the net often and if I came in he could hit a lob that landed a foot from the baseline almost every time unless I hit a very good approach shot.

He put it on me 2 and 2 and I had a few more game points I could have had but not many. That’s where my loopy spiny shots were not very effective against this guy. Your faster lower trajectory shots would work much better. Those floaters that he could consistently hit 3/4 court are not easy for me to get enough pace on, so I would end up going for too much and making too many UE.

I can usually out grind most guys but not this fella he was too good for me. That is why I need to get better at hitting the lower trajectory shots. I can hit them decent at times but not consistent enough. Your style shots would be more effective against an opponent like this.
Click to expand...
Its always about matchups I suppose. But I have to tell you that its easy to take your own time away by hitting the net...

That guy sounds like he would be tough to play. Its one thing to float slices and another to come in behind them. I like a target myself but lots of players tend to panic when the opponent forces it at the net. And even with a good target its hard to hit pass after pass. Tough day a the office. Bet you get him next time.

If I could send DNA I would.
 
Shroud said:
Its always about matchups I suppose. But I have to tell you that its easy to take your own time away by hitting the net...

That guy sounds like he would be tough to play. Its one thing to float slices and another to come in behind them. I like a target myself but lots of players tend to panic when the opponent forces it at the net. And even with a good target its hard to hit pass after pass. Tough day a the office. Bet you get him next time.

If I could send DNA I would.
Click to expand...

I haven’t played this guy in a few years and he has always been tough I was 2-4 against him then. But he did win the division I was in and the year end playoff last time we were in the same league so he is a good player. But in those days he was basically just a very consistent pusher type player and I would be close even though he won more than I did. But now he is much improved with his added net play combined with an unbelievable good defensive game. Some times you just have to say too good.
 
Keep in mind Fed is also famous for shifting grip during contact, yes you read me, during contact with the ball, so his grip is more like a range instead of one specific grip. It also depends on the ball and what kinda shot he is trying to make as well on specific surface on specific weather condition (I guess depending on even his string tension as well).
 
pencilcheck said:
Keep in mind Fed is also famous for shifting grip during contact, yes you read me, during contact with the ball, so his grip is more like a range instead of one specific grip. It also depends on the ball and what kinda shot he is trying to make as well on specific surface on specific weather condition (I guess depending on even his string tension as well).
Click to expand...

You mean he changes his grip in the 1 - 4 milliseconds max dwell time?
 
I seriously have dreamt of the day when Sweetsureshs changes to a grinding style, and it has finally happened.

To see him gracefully dance from side to side, between the white lines would be a true delight for not only TeeTee, but the world at large.

Patiently waiting upon Western Grip videos.
 
pencilcheck said:
Keep in mind Fed is also famous for shifting grip during contact, yes you read me, during contact with the ball, so his grip is more like a range instead of one specific grip. It also depends on the ball and what kinda shot he is trying to make as well on specific surface on specific weather condition (I guess depending on even his string tension as well).
Click to expand...
got evidence of the shifting grip?
 
pencilcheck said:
Keep in mind Fed is also famous for shifting grip during contact, yes you read me, during contact with the ball, so his grip is more like a range instead of one specific grip. It also depends on the ball and what kinda shot he is trying to make as well on specific surface on specific weather condition (I guess depending on even his string tension as well).
Click to expand...
4ms. Don't think so. There are 250 of those in 1 second. Can't be done that quickly. Roger might be god-like but he ain't no Barry Allen (or Kal-El).

The racket may twist in his hand on off-center shots. But, by the time that happens, the ball has already left the building.
 
sureshs said:
Rafael Nadal uses a forehand grip close to a full western, which places the palm of the hand underneath the racket handle:

.

Nadal is on Bevel 5 or 6 (Western grip):

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
"Close to full Western" is not the same a full Western. Jeff Cooper calls is a 3/4 Western (halfway between a SW and a full Western. Despite what OT may or may not say, most other sources indicate that Rafa uses something between a classic SW and a full W. Some images shown of his forehand grip certainly do look like a standard bevel 6 SW. That would be a bevel 4 SW for a right-handed player. Other images appear to be a more extreme version of the SW. Because his grip size is on the small size for his hand, it can be difficult to get I read on his exact Fh grip

Players who are closer to a full W than Nadal, include Khachanov, Nishikori, Sock, and Kyle Edmond

www.nytimes.com

The Evolution of Tennis in Four Grips (Published 2019)

Over the years, players have moved their grips farther and farther under the handle. It creates a lot of topspin, and some strange looking swings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
4ms. Don't think so. There are 250 of those in 1 second. Can't be done that quickly. Roger might be god-like but he ain't no Barry Allen (or Kal-El).

The racket may twist in his hand on off-center shots. But, by the time that happens, the ball has already left the building.
Click to expand...


You don't understand. Switching grip doesn't necessary mean doing it consciously or using his hands, and based on how ball trajectory after contact, it doesn't look like a shank, therefore it has to be part of his loose grip and his stroke production is rigid but also not rigid in different parts.

I'm doing my best to focus on important details, as this helps understanding the bigger picture of what Fed is trying for for his stroke production.
 
pencilcheck said:
You don't understand. Switching grip doesn't necessary mean doing it consciously or using his hands, and based on how ball trajectory after contact, it doesn't look like a shank, therefore it has to be part of his loose grip and his stroke production is rigid but also not rigid in different parts.

I'm doing my best to focus on important details, as this helps understanding the bigger picture of what Fed is trying for for his stroke production.
Click to expand...


WTF you're talking about, buddy... just take the L...
 
travlerajm said:
I think the straight-arm attack on the ball makes Nadal's forehand grip look more extreme than it is.
Click to expand...

yeah he’s definitely not way under the racket like a jack sock or sam querrey, real western forehands...his swing plane is just crazy the way he rips up over the ball. also it’s why he can hit such a penetrating ball, his less-extreme-than-it-looks grip puts a little more racket behind the ball and hits through it in a way that more extreme grip can’t do as well.
 
Curious said:
Why do you think it’s so rare? The strong Western or even the normal western grip.
Click to expand...
A western forehand is a huge liability on carpet and grass, and can also prove quite challenging on hardcourt if your opponent hits quite flat.

The advantages over an Eastern or SW just aren’t worth it for most recreational players.
 
Cashman said:
A western forehand is a huge liability on carpet and grass, and can also prove quite challenging on hardcourt if your opponent hits quite flat.

The advantages over an Eastern or SW just aren’t worth it for most recreational players.
Click to expand...
I used to laugh at terms like strong Eastern , strong SW etc. Half bevel grips didn’t make sense to me but lately I’ve been between eastern and SW ( knuckle on edge between bevel 3 and 4). I believe that’s the best fh grip now. :)
 
Cashman said:
A western forehand is a huge liability on carpet and grass, and can also prove quite challenging on hardcourt if your opponent hits quite flat.

The advantages over an Eastern or SW just aren’t worth it for most recreational players.
Click to expand...
I’ve played a lot of tennis over the years and never played on carpet or grass courts so that’s no concern.
 
Pitti said:
Wow. I feel like the girl is constantly hitting with the wrong side of the racquet
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It certainly looks like an optical illusion. In watching the start of her forward swing, you wonder which side of the racquet she is going to use. Freak of nature. This might be Anna-Lena Grönefeld (retired). Mauresmo might have had a similar Fh grip.

@ptuanminh, this is not a full Western. This is beyond extreme. Further West than West. The so-called Hawaiian grip, since Hawaii is further West than the West Coast / California.
 
I tried it and have played 2 sets of singles and 3 of doubles. Since I use the same grip for the FH as I do the BH, its different for both wings now. Here is a vid of some points with some gratuitous net points mixed in.

I never seem to get that loopy modern top with any grip. Though I do get a decent amount of top I pretty much drive through the ball. Also a few took some weird bounces.

Lots of mishits too from the differnt angle. I may keep playing like this. Also the foot fault police who hassled me before can suck it this time...

 
Shroud said:
I tried it and have played 2 sets of singles and 3 of doubles. Since I use the same grip for the FH as I do the BH, its different for both wings now. Here is a vid of some points with some gratuitous net points mixed in.

I never seem to get that loopy modern top with any grip. Though I do get a decent amount of top I pretty much drive through the ball. Also a few took some weird bounces.

Lots of mishits too from the differnt angle. I may keep playing like this. Also the foot fault police who hassled me before can suck it this time...

Click to expand...
Looks solid! Why you hold back on serve?
 
Shroud said:
I tried it and have played 2 sets of singles and 3 of doubles. Since I use the same grip for the FH as I do the BH, its different for both wings now. Here is a vid of some points with some gratuitous net points mixed in.

I never seem to get that loopy modern top with any grip. Though I do get a decent amount of top I pretty much drive through the ball. Also a few took some weird bounces.

Lots of mishits too from the differnt angle. I may keep playing like this. Also the foot fault police who hassled me before can suck it this time...

Click to expand...

This looks like it was headed towards a bagle. That poor guy has no Backhand and no chance.

The reason it looks like you don’t get a loopy top is because you dont really get under the ball. You kind of do this wrist hinge thing and the racquet looks like it slaps the ball. It’s pretty effective, especially against this guy who has no real pace. I think you may have timing issues with bigger hitters, but you can also just redirect their pace if you wanted.

If you want a modern ball trajectory, you are going to want to get more under the ball and drive it with your whole body. You will need to be a little more mobile and get ready a bit earlier. That actually wont be a huge problem based on this video. You get ready pretty early. The question will be if you can do it against guys who can really hit the ball.
 
Power Player said:
This looks like it was headed towards a bagle. That poor guy has no Backhand and no chance.

The reason it looks like you don’t get a loopy top is because you dont really get under the ball. You kind of do this wrist hinge thing and the racquet looks like it slaps the ball. It’s pretty effective, especially against this guy who has no real pace. I think you may have timing issues with bigger hitters, but you can also just redirect their pace if you wanted.

If you want a modern ball trajectory, you are going to want to get more under the ball and drive it with your whole body. You will need to be a little more mobile and get ready a bit earlier. That actually wont be a huge problem based on this video. You get ready pretty early. The question will be if you can do it against guys who can really hit the ball.
Click to expand...
Well the new grip had several shanks. I won 7-5. and it was 4-4 when we ran out of light. Its closer than the video makes it look.

Ok I can try to get under things more and see what happens though if you mean knee bend it probably wont happen :(
 
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