Talking during a point--need clarification

[Maui19]

I was playing in a doubles match recently. In the middle of the match, one of my opponents started calling out during points. It was always after we had hit the ball, so I guess he had the right to communicate. However I could never quite make out what he was saying, and it sounded like he was making line calls. Actually, I'm not sure exactly what he was saying over there--he definitely wasn't saying "yours" or "switch" or things of that nature. He may have been calling balls good from time to time. At any rate, I found it very distracting, causing me to let up several times thinking he was making an out call. After this went on for a while, I went to the net and politely asked him to refrain, since I kept thinking he was making calls.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I had the right to ask that, since the ball was always headed to his side of the net. I don't know the code all that well. Was I within my rights to ask him to refrain, or did he have the right to talk as he wished when the ball was headed toward his team?

I should say he was a very nice guy, a pleasure to play against and didn't have any problem with my request, and I have no doubt that this was NOT any form of gamesmanship.

 

[blakesq]

Why didn't you simply ask him, "what are you saying", and let him know that you weren't sure if he was calling your balls in or out. Of course you have the "right" to ask him to do anything you want. And, he will typically have the right to refuse, unless he is required to comply according to the rules of tennis. My understanding is that when the ball traveling towards your opponents, they can typically talk to each other. However, if they are yelling stuff that is hindering you, then you must call a hindrance immediately. HOwever, if you want to be nice about it, simply ask them what they are talking about after the point, and let them know that you thought they may be calling a ball out or dead, or something.

I was playing in a doubles match recently. In the middle of the match, one of my opponents started calling out during points. It was always after we had hit the ball, so I guess he had the right to communicate. However I could never quite make out what he was saying, and it sounded like he was making line calls. Actually, I'm not sure exactly what he was saying over there--he definitely wasn't saying "yours" or "switch" or things of that nature. He may have been calling balls good from time to time. At any rate, I found it very distracting, causing me to let up several times thinking he was making an out call. After this went on for a while, I went to the net and politely asked him to refrain, since I kept thinking he was making calls.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I had the right to ask that, since the ball was always headed to his side of the net. I don't know the code all that well. Was I within my rights to ask him to refrain, or did he have the right to talk as he wished when the ball was headed toward his team?

I should say he was a very nice guy, a pleasure to play against and didn't have any problem with my request, and I have no doubt that this was NOT any form of gamesmanship.

 

[esgee48]

They may communicate with each other after you have struck the ball and the ball is on the way towards them. Typically, it should be 'Mine, Yours, Let it Go, Bounce it or nothing.' You cannot talk to them while the ball is in the air. You can yell CLEARLY at your partner 'Short' if it is a lob, but you shouldn't say 'Look Out' as that may cause your opponents to stop the point.

 

[Nellie]

There is nothing magic about "out" or other words, and you can, in fact, talk during the point except with the purpose of distracting the opponent (e.g., yelling "Hey!" just when your opponent is hitting). Think of playing a grunter like Sharapova and how distracting (but legal) that would be. You have to get into your head to hit the ball regardless of the opponent's talking and then stop only when you or the opponent concedes that the ball is out.

 

[Maui19]

There is nothing magic about "out" or other words, and you can, in fact, talk during the point except with the purpose of distracting the opponent (e.g., yelling "Hey!" just when your opponent is hitting). Think of playing a grunter like Sharapova and how distracting (but legal) that would be. You have to get into your head to hit the ball regardless of the opponent's talking and then stop only when you or the opponent concedes that the ball is out.

When the ball is landing on your opponents side, and they are calling something that sounds like "out," it is distracting no matter how much you tell yourself to keep playing.

 

[jswinf]

Were they speaking a different language to each other? That could explain not being able to understand what he was saying, maybe it was "c'mon, Hector, shift your ass" in Portugese or something.

More seriously, I guess you just ignore what they're saying unless you're sure it's "out," and if an opponent stops play after one of your returns and says "I called that last one out" you say "OK, sorry, your point."

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

They may communicate with each other after you have struck the ball and the ball is on the way towards them. Typically, it should be 'Mine, Yours, Let it Go, Bounce it or nothing.' You cannot talk to them while the ball is in the air. You can yell CLEARLY at your partner 'Short' if it is a lob, but you shouldn't say 'Look Out' as that may cause your opponents to stop the point.

Nope:

From the code page 49

32. Talking during point. A player shall not talk while a ball is moving toward an opponent’s side of the court. If a player’s talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play a ball, the player loses the point. For example, if a doubles player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at the player’s partner to get back and if the shout is loud enough to distract an opponent, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses
the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

32. Talking during point. A player shall not talk while a ball is moving toward an opponent’s side of the court. If a player’s talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play a ball, the player loses the point. For example, if a doubles player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at the player’s partner to get back and if the shout is loud enough to distract an opponent, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance.

 

[Angle Queen]

They may communicate with each other after you have struck the ball and the ball is on the way towards them. Typically, it should be 'Mine, Yours, Let it Go, Bounce it or nothing.'

We had an opponent nail us recently for using the underlined term. They thought we were calling a "let" -- even though there wasn't anything to indicate that might be the issue. So, I've resolved to change my language to "bounce it." Ugh. Any other suggestions?

As for the question at hand....talking in between...has never been an issue for, or against, me. But I did see it happen today...on the court next to me. In a USTA match, my teammate actually offered to give up a point because she'd been 'talking to [herself]'. Thankfully, her opponent was equally as gracious and the issue was resolved in my teammate's favor. The opponent admitted she was not distracted but whatever was said on the other side.

Guess I'll be more cognizant to what I say...on court.

 

[spot]

If he was saying something after YOU hit the ball then why on earth would you confuse that with a line call? The other team absolutely has the right to communicate when the ball is heading towards their side of the net. You were unreasonable in asking them to stop. If they were talking before you hit it or immediately after they hit it then the situation would be different.

 

[Cindysphinx]

We had an opponent nail us recently for using the underlined term. They thought we were calling a "let" -- even though there wasn't anything to indicate that might be the issue. So, I've resolved to change my language to "bounce it." Ugh. Any other suggestions?

Not really, but I have a question. If you yelled "Let it go" and your opponent let it go, then it doesn't matter whether your opponents thought they heard you call a let. They weren't hindered because their shot went out.

As for the question at hand....talking in between...has never been an issue for, or against, me. But I did see it happen today...on the court next to me. In a USTA match, my teammate actually offered to give up a point because she'd been 'talking to [herself]'. Thankfully, her opponent was equally as gracious and the issue was resolved in my teammate's favor. The opponent admitted she was not distracted but whatever was said on the other side.

Yeah, a lot of people don't understand the "no talking" rule. They think if they talk, they lose the point.

I had a teammate in practice do this. She said something right before I was hitting. I hit the ball and we all kept playing. After her team won the point, she offered to give us the point because she said something while the ball was on its way to us. Um, no. I wasn't hindered, so there's no problem.

 

[spot]

In an ALTA match the other team wrongly took a point at a critical point. I wasn't there to see it but this is how it went. The teams were tied 3-3 in the third set and their team was serving ad-out. Our player hit a ball past the net player that looked to be a winner. My other player said "yeah!!" or something along those lines. The opponent at the baseline ran over and got a racquet on it and sailed the ball well beyond the baseline. At that point the opponent who was at the net claimed the point due to a voice Hindrance because our player was talking as the ball was going to his partner. There was talk of looking up the rule but the opposing player said that he knew the rules and they were allowed to take the point.

Of course once his partner swung at the ball the team is not allowed to go back afterward and claim the point. But my team didn't know the rules and we lost the point and eventually the match. Just showing once again that it pays to know the rules!

 

[Cindysphinx]

32. Talking during point. A player shall not talk while a ball is moving toward an opponent’s side of the court. If a player’s talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play a ball, the player loses the point. For example, if a doubles player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at the player’s partner to get back and if the shout is loud enough to distract an opponent, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance.

I've always thought this example was overly simplistic.

Sure, with an overhead, a player has time to decide whether or not to hit it.

Some hindrances, though, are the kind that make you hesitate and that hesitation is enough to hinder you, even if you recover enough to try to make a play.

Say that a ball lands close to the line and the player hits a lob but says something while hitting it ("Nope!"). Opponents hear the sound, think it was an out call, and hesitate. They then make an effort to chase the lob but cannot reach it. Have they been hindered? Probably, even though they made an effort. Reasonable minds could differ, though. It's hard to say that neither partner could run a ball down had they not been robbed of their anticipation by the uttered sound.

 

[Maui19]

Some hindrances, though, are the kind that make you hesitate and that hesitation is enough to hinder you, even if you recover enough to try to make a play.

Say that a ball lands close to the line and the player hits a lob but says something while hitting it ("Nope!"). Opponents hear the sound, think it was an out call, and hesitate. They then make an effort to chase the lob but cannot reach it. Have they been hindered? Probably, even though they made an effort. Reasonable minds could differ, though. It's hard to say that neither partner could run a ball down had they not been robbed of their anticipation by the uttered sound.

That is exactly the kind of ambiguous situation we were facing.

 

[Skywalker91]

If that messes you up you need to work on your mental tennis game. Check out the Inner Game of Tennis by Timothy Gallwey

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I've always thought this example was overly simplistic.

While true I think it has to be. The more complexity you put into a rule the more likely we need lawyers (or officials) on the sidelines.

The rule is clear ... if you are hindered to the point you stop mid-point then you get the point. And to hinder me to the point I will stop mid point it has to be pretty bad ... it has only once in 10 years.

However, we know in practice the calling of hinderances almost never happens and almost every situation is decided by players playing the ball, which I think is better than tearing apart shades of grey once the point is over.

 

[Maui19]

If that messes you up you need to work on your mental tennis game. Check out the Inner Game of Tennis by Timothy Gallwey

Hey, thanks for the help. Great tip, greatly appreciated.

 

[SlapChop]

They were obviously not talking too loudly if you couldn't hear what they were saying.

They can communicate with each other and perhaps one is watching the line and is letting the other know if they think they should play the ball or what their plan of attack should be.

You should always play any ball unless you CLEARLY know that there was an out call.

 

[Angle Queen]

Not really, but I have a question. If you yelled "Let it go" and your opponent let it go, then it doesn't matter whether your opponents thought they heard you call a let. They weren't hindered because their shot went out.

Actually, in the situation I described, I was talking with my doubles partner. I was just inside the service line, slightly turned to face her and the baseline; she was in the backcourt chasing down a ball coming up the middle...and going to go long/out. She chose to take the ball out of the air (so we never saw/confirmed whether it was going out or not)...and hit a beautiful lob over both our opponents who were at net. No way there were going to OH or chase down her shot regardless of what had been said on our side.

We held our ground on what had been said, and after some light bickering, the point was resolved in our favor. They'd already won the first set and were up a break in the second. Next time, we might not have as accommodating opponents.

Still, my early 2011 season lessons are to not make assumptions about what happens on the other side of the net. Don't assume you hear the word let...and don't assume it was a double-bounce (that's another story but still fits with the general lesson).

 

[Cindysphinx]

Yeah, we need some sort of way for players to acknowledge a double-bounce.

I mean, the player is running up trying to make a play. The ball bounces twice, but it's close. They scoop it up over the net. What are they supposed to say? "Oh, hey. That was Not Up." By the time they say that, I will have crushed it right back at them. And then they are glaring at me.

In my experience, most people don't make a clear call on a double-bounce. They look downcast if they didn't get there, but they there is no clear signal they can make. This seems to happen to me a lot, because I play all double-bounces very aggressively right back at the player. They can get a little shirty with you, I've found.

 

[spot]

Cindy... if they don't say "no up", "2 bounce", or my prefered "Nonono" then I can't imagine how they would possibly be irritated for you finishing the point off.