Targets on the courts.

D

DevilsChildXD

Rookie
So today I was at drills and even though I've been doing this for weeks I just noticed that the coaches put two cones on the court around no mans land near the singles line and I hit 6 in 1 1/3 hours. my last two were with serves and those cones were in the service box. I don't know how beneficial this method is but do you think I should get my high school tennis team to start using cones or would that be to much of a hassle? My tennis team isn't the best they usually go for winners and miss and have no control or consistency. Everybody is around a 3.0-3.5 level except for me and the captains.

What do you guys think? Also what are the pros and cons of the cones? Oh and we use tennis ball cans for cones lol.
 
I use cones when I go into drills with my coaches, it just gives you a target to aim for. Some people like having a solid target and others actually need it. I would suggest it to your HS team, it really can't hurt.
 
USERNAME said:
I use cones when I go into drills with my coaches, it just gives you a target to aim for. Some people like having a solid target and others actually need it. I would suggest it to your HS team, it really can't hurt.
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Any suggestions on where to put them? Like for baseline ground strokes, volleys, and serves?
 
cones are bad because it's coincidence when you hit them.

Since placement is very important some expert coaches (like schönborn) thus recommend target areas with a size that is dependent on the level of the player.

Later you can still make them smaller if the players get better.

In every training it's important to have sucess controll. this is not possible with cones where you hit 2 out of 30, which is just coincidence. a player that shanks 12 of those 30 and hit the cone 3 times is by that standard better than one who hits none, but all 3 feet around the cone. that is frustrating.

So better use something like a 4 by 4 feet carpet as a taget. then let them hit on it. so they can controll how much their sucess is.

then when players hit the zone with 70% of their strokes or so make the zone a little smaller.

that's the way you improve consistency, but not by hitting a stupid cone, that would be pure coincidence even for Raonic:D. I mean, is a shot that lands 5 inches away from the cone worse? give the kids realistic goals.

Of course cones are better than just playing with no target, since they create awareness for placement instead of just hitting along with no plan where to hit. but they are not a good training to control sucess and motivate kids since if you are actually hitting them is more coincidence unless you are federer (and even he would not hit more then 2 out of 5).
 
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dominikk1985 said:
cones are bad because it's coincidence when you hit them.

Since placement is very important some expert coaches (like schönborn) thus recommend target areas with a size that is dependent on the level of the player.

Later you can still make them smaller if the players get better.

In every training it's important to have sucess controll. this is not possible with cones where you hit 2 out of 30, which is just coincidence. a player that shanks 12 of those 30 and hit the cone 3 times is by that standard better than one who hits none, but all 3 feet around the cone. that is frustrating.

So better use something like a 4 by 4 feet carpet as a taget. then let them hit on it. so they can controll how much their sucess is.

then when players hit the zone with 70% of their strokes or so make the zone a little smaller.

that's the way you improve consistency, but not by hitting a stupid cone, that would be pure coincidence even for Raonic:D. I mean, is a shot that lands 5 inches away from the cone worse? give the kids realistic goals.

Of course cones are better than just playing with no target, since they create awareness for placement instead of just hitting along with no plan where to hit. but they are not a good training to control sucess and motivate kids since if you are actually hitting them is more coincidence unless you are federer (and even he would not hit more then 2 out of 5).
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You sir are a genius lol what do you think about using a small hula hoop?
 
DevilsChildXD said:
You sir are a genius lol what do you think about using a small hula hoop?
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Why not.The targt shouldn't be too big, but large enough so that players hit around 50% (maybe less in the first time he's going for target areas). just adjust the size.

You can use everything, be creative:D.
on hardcourts you an also use tape.

You could start very big, for example first devide the backcourt(beween service line and baseline) in two halfs by extending the line between the service boxes to the baseline. that sounds easy, but many players actually have a problem hitting that half of the backcourt ten times in a row, usually because they become shorter (balls that are shorter than to the service line are often killing players in matches).

to hit that area consistently in long rallies you need some placement skill. just hit the ball deep and into the right "box". As soon as you can do that consistently, make the box a little smaller by shifting the lines(i'm talking about the short and middle line-just use the side- and baseline for the outside lines) 4 feet behind the service line and 4 feet right or left of the middle. you will see that it becomes a little harder and you try until you master that.

If you do that progress regularly you will become a master in ball placement and run the opponent around the court in matches. makes much more sense than trying to shoot for a too small target.

this approach needs a little more patience, but is more satisfying and sucessfull in the end. in 2 or 3 months you will get real good sucess.
don't be shy to start real big. the kids will laugh first when you give them an entire half of the backcourt, but they will quickly stop laughing if they see that the struggle to fullfil the task of hitting that box ten times in a row. I have seen it taking 20 minutes till a team reaches the ten strokes per player (20 overall) even with solid junior players because they overhit, hit too short or too flat over the net.

This is also a thing to look for. pro strokes look flat, but usually they clear the net by 3-4 feet unless they are going for a winner. so span a line 3 feet over the net and let them hit nice,relaxed topsin shots over it. you will be surprised how much deeper and more consistent the players will hit.

too often young players try to "shave" the net to hit winners, which is not what the pros do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

debt in strokes is 90% of the sucess, if you hit short you get chased around, but just by hitting deep topsin with some height you will beat most players even if you don't have a weapon.

If you coach a HS team that is not so good I would concentrate on very few things. do the same a lot. for example let them hit a lot of deep topsin shots over a line into the backcourt, mostly crosscourt. they will be bored, but if they can replicate those nice shots in a game and don't hit those short strokes into the service box they will be surprised how many matches they win without going for risky strokes. that doesn't mean just push, you can easily make pressure and run people around with those shots as nadal shows.

don't be too fine and try to do too many things. master a few things (for ex. the thing I mentioned) because if you do too many things they won't be able to translate that to matches.
 
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i was watching some training vid and the coach advised using runways for service accuracy. it was extremely useful when i practiced serves out wide. you can use cones, balls, discs or whatever.

as an example, say you want to practice serves out wide. you would take about 8 balls and line a path from the corner of the service box toward the serving position. 4 balls on each side which creates the runway. it creates a very nice visual.
 
dominikk1985 said:
cones are bad because it's coincidence when you hit them.

Since placement is very important some expert coaches (like schönborn) thus recommend target areas with a size that is dependent on the level of the player.

Later you can still make them smaller if the players get better.

In every training it's important to have sucess controll. this is not possible with cones where you hit 2 out of 30, which is just coincidence. a player that shanks 12 of those 30 and hit the cone 3 times is by that standard better than one who hits none, but all 3 feet around the cone. that is frustrating.

So better use something like a 4 by 4 feet carpet as a taget. then let them hit on it. so they can controll how much their sucess is.

then when players hit the zone with 70% of their strokes or so make the zone a little smaller.

that's the way you improve consistency, but not by hitting a stupid cone, that would be pure coincidence even for Raonic:D. I mean, is a shot that lands 5 inches away from the cone worse? give the kids realistic goals.

Of course cones are better than just playing with no target, since they create awareness for placement instead of just hitting along with no plan where to hit. but they are not a good training to control sucess and motivate kids since if you are actually hitting them is more coincidence unless you are federer (and even he would not hit more then 2 out of 5).
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Yes, I agree.
 
Ash_Smith said:
^^^maybe you could use cones to mark out target areas?!

Ash
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That certainly would be better but keep in mind the target areas keep changing and are seldom in the same place twice during a point.

However, I think your correct in suggesting more than one or even a couple of cones. There easy but not very effective.
 
DevilsChildXD said:
Any suggestions on where to put them? Like for baseline ground strokes, volleys, and serves?
Click to expand...

Make a zone in the cc corner and another zone for the short angle cc for the forehand, then do the same for backhand having them alternate on which zone they hit to. Ex= *all fh* 2 balls to the cc corner zone and 2 balls to the short angle cc zone. You can make zones for dtl, inside out, and inside in shots which covers the baseline. For volleys you want to practice hitting to the corners and hitting angled putaways, hitting up the middle is pretty simple imo. So again set up zones to hit to and give them a pattern to follow. Another great thing to do on volleys is simply put the feeder at net at the opposite side of where you want them to hit, gives them the feel of having to pass someone. For better players set up approach, volley, putaway patterns. This is simple stuff that almost every recreational coach does and will help just about every player, I mean I have had my father drop feed me on the baseline with target zones set up and it works to groove your strokes.
 
One thing to consider when using ANY target: if the student/player is adjusting the form to accomadate the aim, then the targets are NOT helpful. (They are encouraging the player to use what FEELS like they can hit the target with rather than developing technique.)

If the player consciously is trying to hit the cone with the stroke components that they are working towards, then the targets are helpful.

It doesn't matter if you hit the cone/target or not. It is the feed back relative to the aim within the stroke pattern you are working that the targets provide which is helpful.

In other words, if you are using a stroke pattern that is within the bounds of effective technique, and you aim at a target, any miss of the target will give you the necessary feedback to adjust your aim accordingly, still using the proper technique.

This is a common problem among pros and coaches who think having kids 'hitting' targets is the goal. NO. It should be secondary to the kids knowing they are using the form that will allow them to create the right spin, speed, and repetitive stroke pattern which will allow them to hit the target a whole bunch more!

If kids or adults change their swing (to accomadate their aim...or lack thereof!), then they will never develop a reliable, repeatable swing pattern.

Think about it!!

Remember that most advanced or skilled stroke patterns, including grips, balance, footwork and the feel of spin, almost never feel comfortable or confident to any student. Thus, if they are aiming for a target, they will naturally change there stroke pattern to that which FEELS most comfortable and thus most confident to hit the target.

When this happens, they have failed. (In terms of advancing towards more skilled play.)
 
@Coaching mastery

I would agree with you on kids, that technique should be more important than placement.


but he was talking about high school players. shouldn't they have enough engrained (so that they don't have to think about that) technique to work on specific things like placement?

Also I would advice not to be too fine with placement zones. of course they shift a little, but the basic placement zones from the baseline are the deep corners+the short crosscourt. If they can hit them consistently they are ahead of many HS players.

Here are the main placement zone from the baseline. the deep corners and the short cc. The red zone is the kill zone. hitting there get's you in trouble. they should avoid hitting there. maybe you can make an hour where you mark that red zone and have them make push ups if they hit it. you will be surprised how many balls land there. don't do this too often since positive targets are better but for demonstration purposes this is also good every now and then.

As CM pointed out this is not good for kids with developing technique because they will cheat to guide the ball there, but with advanced players with a stable stroke technique I think this is a good training. In a math most of the balls should go into those blue zones, while many kids hit 60% of the balls into the red zone.



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It's important that they don't push to get there. They shouldn't rip the ball also. just nice topspin strokes with a good height and about 70-80% (start slower than that, then gradually increase) swing speed compared to maximum with clean technique and footwork.
 
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Yes, Dominik, I agree and I hope I didn't gloss over the fact that I feel very strongly about targets for players who have indeed established fundamentally sound strokes. They are critical for improving aim.

But I also know that adults are no different than kids when learning the game: they want to develop a solid game no different...and sometimes, more despretly than kids. Thus, my rules of thumb apply to ANY age student who wants to learn the game and play the game within the context of "skilled play."

Yes, those who have established poor stroke patterns and have been playing a long time are most likely NOT going to make the significant and frustrating changes necessary to develop a more prolific game. But, even those within this category would still fit my rule of thumb if they wanted to go through and change their game/strokes etc.
 
OK, I have a question concerning targets.

I have a practice partner. Both of us are working on our FHs and BHs, so we rally from the baseline a lot.

She dislikes using targets. I want to use targets.

When she agrees to use targets, she is picky about the type of target we use. She doesn't like it if we each put our hand towels down in no-man's land and play from behind the towel, as she worries she will trip on them. Same objection to marking a box with dog leashes. She also doesn't like how the ball bounces funny when you hit the dog leash or towel. She has at times suggested that the target on her side of the court be a single sock or a ponytail holder, to reduce the tripping hazard.

Now.

I am reluctant to spend $30 on a set of round rubber discs, but I think we need to use targets because otherwise the ball gets sprayed all over the place. Has anyone heard these sorts of concerns before?
 
Hula hoops are okay as far as larger area to land shots in...also, they impress the idea of making balls "Drop" into the target area as opposed to drilling a stand-up target. (Which usually limits the student's conceptual perception of topspin in favor of a 'shotgun' type trajectory.)

Chalk...if you want to make a lot of people angry! Since it won't wash off easily, (have you ever tried getting that stuff off your drive way!) and especially if you were to try it at a club. (Good way to have your membership revoked!! JK sort of!)

Large cones in a hula hoop would be idea. Towels aren't bad if you have nothing else. Tennis cans are okay...except if you hit them they go flying! (Heavy cones are best! and tilt them so that you are trying to get them INSIDE the cone...improves the idea of the downward trajectory concept I talked about.)

But remember, any target is only good if the student, regardless of age, is working within desired stroke mechanics while aiming.
 
Another thing you can do with "Hula Hoops" is attach them to old broom handles using a couple of 90 braces that you can get at Home Depot - Duct Tape work great.

Then, thread the handle through the net so you have a nice target at varying heights right over net to practice various placements - works good on volley placement but we've used it on other shots as well. You can buy these things, including the brooms at Dollar Store so for a few bucks you have something different that nobody objects to - quick set up and doesn't effect the net.

Chalk, as CM said is a pain. Don't know what they use in that stuff now but take his warning about using it. I also don't think its that easy to see - probably depends on court color.

Another, less dangerous target can be made out of rubber shower mats. Lightweight, stay on the court regardless of surface, easily seen, can be cut into arrows or circles and are inexpensive. Hula Hoop can present a tripping/sliding hazard when placed down on court surface so be careful here also.
 
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