N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I meant it must sock to be so close but I think this is a very positive match for Fritz overall and hopefully he takes it as such. I do expect him to do well throughout the year. Hard to digest socks, I agree.
Taylor Made Fix For Men's Tennis On The Fritz!
- Thread starter stringertom
- Start date
I meant it must sock to be so close but I think this is a very positive match for Fritz overall and hopefully he takes it as such. I do expect him to do well throughout the year. Hard to digest socks, I agree.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Yeah, but in a way this match was gravy after digging out of the 0-4 hole in the third vs elder Zverev in the qualies. While I was pulling for a win, reality is he'll have this experience and a bit more time to get back in "the lab" and work on his formula.
I'm hoping he can play some 250's (Delray, Memphis) real soon and keep building from his success at the Challenger level and get the needed experience on the ATP tour.
Just came back from the match, very disappointed with Jack Sock. I wanted to see him play a bit today so I've been keeping tab on the official app all afternoon because the first 2 matches on his court went on forever, I knew they would move the match to another court. Once confirmed, I went there and found a sit. I am not saying I am a fan of his but I was there to see him play so naturally hoping him to win. But towards the end, I was willing for him to lose. I just can't stand his demeanor during the match.
The game started off well, both players actually had some good baseline game, I still don't know how Jack hit those forehand, half the time he looks like he was late and out of position, he just flicked his wrist and the ball flies though to the other side like a bullet. When he lost the 2nd set, things started going downhill. He was literally tanking the 3rd set, not attempting to go for anything and pretend to care about returning. At the start of all these, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because I knew he was sick over the weekend. I thought he was just trying to hang in which is courageous in a way. But he continued to act like he doesn't care rather than being physically challenged. Along the way he got into a small argument with a spectator who called him out on his tanking; a ball dropped in just before one of Fritz' 2nd serve (for no reason he picked up the ball and hit it as hard as he could over the fence and got a warning for it) plus a couple line calls. They had the physio and doctor on stand by for a set and a bit but they were never called for his supposed illness. 4th set started he was playing ok again, then came his fall. He was lucky the physio and doctor and an official had been there all along, so they were able to jump in straightaway to assess him and later retape his ankle. After that, it was all ok, no sign of any distress again. He started yelling come on.
Do I think he was pretending to be sick to put off his opponent? No. I think he was genuinely sick. But if you insist on playing and not calling doctor, then you are fair game. He acted like he was going to throw in the towel any moment. Yeah fair enough, a bit of gamesmanship to hopefully extend your chance of finishing the match but to do this to your fellow countryman who is younger and less experienced just doesn't feel right. I've never heard or read anything bad about Jack Sock before so was quite surprised to see that live.
On the other hand, I cannot say enough praise for his opponent young Taylor Fritz. I knew nothing about him before the match (still don't, will google more later). He got a good game that he can work on. But more importantly, I think he handled the situation well enough. Yes, he lost concentration during the 4th set but he was mostly behaving very professionally for someone so young and still new to the top level.
Sorry a bit of a rant but have to get it off my chest somewhere.
The game started off well, both players actually had some good baseline game, I still don't know how Jack hit those forehand, half the time he looks like he was late and out of position, he just flicked his wrist and the ball flies though to the other side like a bullet. When he lost the 2nd set, things started going downhill. He was literally tanking the 3rd set, not attempting to go for anything and pretend to care about returning. At the start of all these, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because I knew he was sick over the weekend. I thought he was just trying to hang in which is courageous in a way. But he continued to act like he doesn't care rather than being physically challenged. Along the way he got into a small argument with a spectator who called him out on his tanking; a ball dropped in just before one of Fritz' 2nd serve (for no reason he picked up the ball and hit it as hard as he could over the fence and got a warning for it) plus a couple line calls. They had the physio and doctor on stand by for a set and a bit but they were never called for his supposed illness. 4th set started he was playing ok again, then came his fall. He was lucky the physio and doctor and an official had been there all along, so they were able to jump in straightaway to assess him and later retape his ankle. After that, it was all ok, no sign of any distress again. He started yelling come on.
Do I think he was pretending to be sick to put off his opponent? No. I think he was genuinely sick. But if you insist on playing and not calling doctor, then you are fair game. He acted like he was going to throw in the towel any moment. Yeah fair enough, a bit of gamesmanship to hopefully extend your chance of finishing the match but to do this to your fellow countryman who is younger and less experienced just doesn't feel right. I've never heard or read anything bad about Jack Sock before so was quite surprised to see that live.
On the other hand, I cannot say enough praise for his opponent young Taylor Fritz. I knew nothing about him before the match (still don't, will google more later). He got a good game that he can work on. But more importantly, I think he handled the situation well enough. Yes, he lost concentration during the 4th set but he was mostly behaving very professionally for someone so young and still new to the top level.
Sorry a bit of a rant but have to get it off my chest somewhere.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Very interesting account, and I did feel Sock's behaviour was somewhat dishonest during the match. Thanks for the firsthand account.
Chicharito
Hall of Fame
I wonder if Sock's behavour will go viral?
His actions at an exho did so why not a Grand Slam? #MrSportsmanship
His actions at an exho did so why not a Grand Slam? #MrSportsmanship
stringertom
Bionic Poster
What little ESPN2 showed of the tail end of the third set led me to believe you, Jack, were not fully recovered from your bout with the Kiwi flu. Apparently, I was wrong and you were just in the middle of a tank. The Pentagon has called and asked for rights to name their new strategic tank in your honor, Jack! #LincolnSock
Sad move but, in your small little mind, a win is a win. You've lost me as a fan. Suddenly, Rosol has become my first of many favorite players to face you.
Sad move but, in your small little mind, a win is a win. You've lost me as a fan. Suddenly, Rosol has become my first of many favorite players to face you.
Serve&Bash
Semi-Pro
Seriously. I've pretty much seen every top 10 player play the rope-a-dope before multiple times especially when they are having some physical ailments.
Meles
Bionic Poster
What the Seck was that?
Meles
Bionic Poster
All of the comments on Sock are ridiculous. Rosol? You've got to be kidding me. Sock's heart was shown by how he stayed behind with the fans. This is just one match (with the flu).
Meles
Bionic Poster
Its hard to evaluate Fritz given Sock's condition, but he did play lights out against Ferrer while coming down with this bug. Guilty of fall asleep at the swich and tuned in with Sock up 5-2 or something in the fourth set. Overall Sock's game looked above par (did not see Fritz's two set wins.) Sock is a threat to go very deep in the tournament if he can find the high level he had against Ferrer.
Never saw Fritz on a big stage, and very impressed. The winning persona/attitude on the court was amazing. The serve was excellent and bound to improve (other than Kyrgios, maybe the best young server?) Fritz looks like Sampras with attitude. Probably too big to be as dominate as Pete, but future slam contender.
Why did it take Fritz 10 minutes to tie his shoes in the middle of the game? (glad Sock broke him with two straight winning shots after that.)
Never saw Fritz on a big stage, and very impressed. The winning persona/attitude on the court was amazing. The serve was excellent and bound to improve (other than Kyrgios, maybe the best young server?) Fritz looks like Sampras with attitude. Probably too big to be as dominate as Pete, but future slam contender.
Why did it take Fritz 10 minutes to tie his shoes in the middle of the game? (glad Sock broke him with two straight winning shots after that.)
Meles
Bionic Poster
As your technology consultant I must say as an ESPN/cable subscriber you should have an email address and password from your provider (get it from them if you don't remember.) With this you can use Watch ESPN on any device to watch all 20 courts live. You can also watch the full replay of the Fritz match (even on an Iphone for which I'd recommend some 1.5 magnification electronics head piece, which often have a built in LED light for the full geek look.) Feel free to converse on the subject.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
I'm sorry but that was pure gamesmanship on Sock's part to tank as fully as he did after being broken early in the third set. It robbed Fritz of any potential momentum he had developed late in the second set and through his first break in the third. I can understand if you get down 30-0 while receiving to not push hard for a break against a big server, especially late in a match. That's conserving energy. Sock wasn't even trying for the last three games and that cheats the opponent and the people in the stands. Pure BS, especially when the kid across the net is in the same shoes (and socks
) Sock was wearing five years ago and from the same country. It will make for a very contentious locker room when they play DC sometime soon in the future. I saw none of that rot in the Hewitt/Duckworth match last night.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Re Murray, weary commentators have remarked, "He's been known to play possum."
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
I like how Kyrgios tanked 1 game against Gasquet at Wimbledon(in a match he lost), everybody flipped out.
Sock tanks basically an entire set and goes on to win, yet it's all gravy.
To the guy who said all the top players do this...No, I've seen Djokovic, Murray, Isner etc grimace and winge, yet play like they are fine aka "rope a dope". That's pure gamesmanship. But I've only seen a handful of players blatantly tank like Sock did. Not running after anything. Intentionally swatting balls way out. Then he turns his ankle which looked terrible based on his (over)reaction. But comes back out moving better than he did the whole match. 5th set he's screaming come on nearly every point.
I like Sock, and want him to have a good tournament. But was not a fan of the antics. At all. Fritz handled it pretty well I thought.
Sock tanks basically an entire set and goes on to win, yet it's all gravy.
To the guy who said all the top players do this...No, I've seen Djokovic, Murray, Isner etc grimace and winge, yet play like they are fine aka "rope a dope". That's pure gamesmanship. But I've only seen a handful of players blatantly tank like Sock did. Not running after anything. Intentionally swatting balls way out. Then he turns his ankle which looked terrible based on his (over)reaction. But comes back out moving better than he did the whole match. 5th set he's screaming come on nearly every point.
I like Sock, and want him to have a good tournament. But was not a fan of the antics. At all. Fritz handled it pretty well I thought.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
why Fritz almost beat Sock ?? wow, this kid will become another Sampras soon,,,very soon....
tacou
G.O.A.T.
Weird match. I was convinced Sock was going to retire with illness, then I saw him hit the ground and rolled my eyes -- on the replay, it's clear he rolled his ankle pretty bad.
Yet after all that, he wins 5th comfortably.
Fritz definitely has a big game. If he develops stamina and any sort of consistency he seems to be a lock for top 20.
But yeah very strange happenings
Yet after all that, he wins 5th comfortably.
Fritz definitely has a big game. If he develops stamina and any sort of consistency he seems to be a lock for top 20.
But yeah very strange happenings
tacou
G.O.A.T.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't make sense to me. You say you feel he was genuinely sick, but that if he's out there on court he is "fair game." Uh what do you mean? He didn't lose and use it as an excuse or anything. He overcame his illness and a bad ankle roll and won the match. Where was the gamesmanship you speak of?? He was clearly physically no good and mentally losing it and Fritz -- who I agree carried himself very well and showed some serious talent -- couldn't close him out. Oh well.
tacou
G.O.A.T.
I agree it was rude to fans, but how does it cheat Fritz? Sock gifted the kid an easy set (well a set and a half actually as it began in the second). Fritz should've continued to swing away.I'm sorry but that was pure gamesmanship on Sock's part to tank as fully as he did after being broken early in the third set. It robbed Fritz of any potential momentum he had developed late in the second set and through his first break in the third. I can understand if you get down 30-0 while receiving to not push hard for a break against a big server, especially late in a match. That's conserving energy. Sock wasn't even trying for the last three games and that cheats the opponent and the people in the stands. Pure BS, especially when the kid across the net is in the same shoes (and socks
Also, I noticed Sock started playing better basically right when the sun went down.
I think he went into this match less than 100 percent. We know he is sick. As the match wore on he started feeling worse and after going down early in the third, he said Forget this set.
It got cooler out, he regrouped, and won the match.
Again, as a Sock fan, I'm not claiming this was a gem of his. But all he did was give away an entire set. Fritz couldn't take advantage.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
I'd guess 100% of the tour would be happy to be on the receiving end of some "gamesmanship" which gifted a 6-0 set.
tacou
G.O.A.T.
Exactly
Meles
Bionic Poster
Agree to disagree on this one. Sock had some health issues. If he keeps doing this then its an issue. Tanking sets are within the rules of the game and if a player is down in the set and needs to do it to win the match due to their own condition issues then they should tank. 6-0 was pretty crazy, but did not see the set.I'm sorry but that was pure gamesmanship on Sock's part to tank as fully as he did after being broken early in the third set. It robbed Fritz of any potential momentum he had developed late in the second set and through his first break in the third. I can understand if you get down 30-0 while receiving to not push hard for a break against a big server, especially late in a match. That's conserving energy. Sock wasn't even trying for the last three games and that cheats the opponent and the people in the stands. Pure BS, especially when the kid across the net is in the same shoes (and socks
I didn't see or read his post match interview if it's at all available somewhere. But i'd like to hear his explanation of what actually happened out there.
I said it already. I thought it was courageous if he was trying to hang in and close out the match while feeling the after effect of the flu. But he literally didn't attempt to put in any effort the whole set and also slowing down play. Would i feel as bad if he had done that in a match against Federer? No. My problem with him was he employed such tactic against a fellow countryman who's younger and less experienced. If i was Fritz, i would have asked the umpire to tell Sock to speed up because he was slowing down play while receiving. And this is what i meant by fair game. He chose to continue, then he should just play by same rule.
You may see him as 'gifting' a set to Fritz but i see him as slowing down Fritz' momentum because the whole match had changed from full blown baseline battle to Fritz practising his serve.
I am not here to bash Sock and i don't know how much of the game was actually shown (including all the little things happened during changing over...like he was throwing sweaty towels at the cameraman on site). I was just recounting what i saw and how i felt while being there from start to finish.
tacou
G.O.A.T.
I watched the whole match on ESPN3. Again, I respect your opinion, I just think going down 2-1 including a 6-0 3rd set is digging yourself a deep hole, not a form of gamesmanship
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
I guess your theory is you can waste a set but so disrupt your opponent that you will ultimately prevail ?
If we take any player and ask which do you prefer (1) an opponent that is slowing down play and otherwise attempting to slow your momentum including by losing the set 6-0 or (2) so-called straight up play but you may or may not take the set, who's picking number #2 ? Maybe Djoker if he needs more time on court. ;-)
You seem annoyed that Sock wasn't playing "fair" and for reasons I don't get some extra added insult because he's a "fellow countryman" (that matters somehow ?) and "younger and less experienced" (as if he owes young Fritz a gentlemanly welcome to the tour while the youngster is trying to take his points and his paycheck). Anyway, whether you enjoyed Sock's performance he lost the set you are complaining about 6-0 so any gamesmanship was by any reasonable calculus a giant fail.
I don't think the issue is gamesmanship from what you describe; instead it goes to tanking which was discussed on another thread some time back. And my personal view hasn't changed that tanking is an entire match concept. Which raises another issue given the news lately. It is absolute madness in this sport to allow any inter-match bets of any kind. I don't favor betting on the matches at all but inter-match betting is not defensible to me if there is any desire to prevent bet fixing.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Lots of other teenagers in the draw and all but Donaldson and Kozlov are through to 2R. Escobedo and Mmoh went through 3 rounds of qualifying and did not disappoint in 1R vs Rola (impressive for E-Square) and a WC (meh for M-Square).
Gytha
Legend
Herios
Rookie
He climbed fast so far, but between 100 and 150 ranking, the point gap is not so small, so he will gain ground slower from here on un the challenegrs, unless he wins it all. But the way he is playing, I am sure by April or so, he will get there.
If USTA does not give him some WC, there are morons. (They wasted them for many years on Harrison, who is lower rankd now than 4 years ago!!!)
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Let's hope Delray and/or Memphis give him a WC or two. Delray extended WCs to Rublev and Kozlov last year so there may be precedent. Also at Memphis, where Donaldson and Kozlov got WCs.
Today's loss to Duckworth means just a few points gained in Maui.
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Herios
Rookie
Today
Today's loss also shows he needs to spend more time playing these guys ranked around 100-150. He is not yet experienced enough to be able to defeat the guys ranked in a top 100 on a regular basis.
Today's loss also shows he needs to spend more time playing these guys ranked around 100-150. He is not yet experienced enough to be able to defeat the guys ranked in a top 100 on a regular basis.
LinePainter
Professional
Suprised no one updated this thread when Fritz beat Johnson 7-6 7-6 in Memphis. He plays Becker next round which is totally winnable, then the winner of Young/Berankis which is also winnable. Let's go Fritzy!
stringertom
Bionic Poster
I would have gotten to this update but work got in the way. Thanks for doing it!
His path to a final is fairly "flat"...DY is the giant of those three at an even 6'0". Despite this altitude deficiency, both Becker and Berankis pack very large serves. The QF also features a 16-year age gap...Becker is aulderer than fedr!
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Yes, a realistic chance. Winning in two TBs vs Johnson shows he's playing big points well so if he gets to crunch time vs an in-form serving Becker, THF can survive. If Becker slips a gear, as he did in his second set vs Paul, it might be even easier. If it goes three, young legs trump long teeth.
Im certain he'll get a WC for Indian Wells. His dad is in pretty good with Jose Higueras and most likely Steve Simon as well. Not to mention he's the hottest young American prospect at the moment.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
A SoCal prodigy is a natural for IW plus he planted seeds in South Florida by going the USTA training route. If Delray has given him a WC, Miami will definitely consider going that way too.
Herios
Rookie
The most logical pick for a WC in IW should be Taylor, among all the young Americans. There is no other player who deserves it more.
Meles
Bionic Poster
He's getting wildcards after the Johnson victory. Probably would of without it.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
I'm sure a future GOAT thread was created the instant he beat Johnson in two breakers. I just didn't search for it.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
Delray would give you a wildcard if you could bring in fans. But do these wildcards help players. Did it help young Young ? Or Harry ? To take just two notable examples of players receiving a plethora of WCs early in their careers. Yes, you get points and money immediately and I don't discount that but it may be better for developing your game if you earn your way in. And then there is the issue of general fairness on the tour which I do realize is a distant second or third or more to drawing fans which Fritz certainly will do in IW over whomever would otherwise scrap into the tournament.
I guess what my rambling post is saying is if I'm running the tourney he gets a WC but if I'm coaching him I might prefer he come through qualies. Actually, if I'm coaching him I'm wondering if it still isn't too late to fix that weird forehand.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
A Fan joins
One more win he enter in the top 100
One more win he enter in the top 100
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