Team in our League adding Self-rated High level players

[Nostradamus]

This is so typical of some in-experienced captain making dumb decisions. We have a local league and USTA league. Not everyone knows of this local league since most of the USTA guys don't play in this. but the level 4.0 or 4.5 are about the same roughly. Now this new captain thinks he can self-rate these several guys that have been playing 4.5 level( Played College tennis too) in the local league and add them to his USTA 4.0 team and get away with it. :???:
He thinks now he can win the division and go to the playoffs and maybe the nationals. I play in this local league and USTA league both, so I can clearly see this is cheating. but these guys haven't played USTA league before so they are Self-rating to 4.0.
This really is bad because it give other teams in the division that was close to winning the division last year, NO chance to compete for the playoff spot. What kind of Blatant Cheating is this ?

 

[schmke]

If someone played college tennis, there are guidelines and rules for what level a player must self-rate at. If someone violates one of these rules in self-rating, bring it to the LC's attention and it can be resolved.

 

[Nostradamus]

If someone played college tennis, there are guidelines and rules for what level a player must self-rate at. If someone violates one of these rules in self-rating, bring it to the LC's attention and it can be resolved.

How do I prove that ? I spoke with LC. and he stated that they can't do anything til someone files Grievance against these players. Which means they have to play a few matches then my friend captain can file a grievance.

 

[gmatheis]

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/11 Local Grievance forms.pdf

That's the local grievance form. Basically you need specific info. Like you say someone played college tennis ... that's not specific. You need to say which person played at what school.
You also claim they played 4.5 , you need to be specific as to what you mean by that... did they play in 4.5 tourneys? did they play 4.5 league? And even more so you should have verifiable proof of this stuff. Links to college team rosters, links to tennislink records etc.

You need to PROVE that this person has violated the experienced player guidelines, or that they circumvented the USTA system somehow (like by signing up as a self rated 4.0 with their middle name when they were a 4.5 in the system with their regular name)

 

[Nostradamus]

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/11 Local Grievance forms.pdf

That's the local grievance form. Basically you need specific info. Like you say someone played college tennis ... that's not specific. You need to say which person played at what school.
You also claim they played 4.5 , you need to be specific as to what you mean by that... did they play in 4.5 tourneys? did they play 4.5 league? And even more so you should have verifiable proof of this stuff. Links to college team rosters, links to tennislink records etc.

You need to PROVE that this person has violated the experienced player guidelines, or that they circumvented the USTA system somehow (like by signing up as a self rated 4.0 with their middle name when they were a 4.5 in the system with their regular name)

It doesn't affect me. I play in 4.5 division. but my best friend is captain of a 4.0 team. and he worked really hard during winter to get his guys ready for this summer season and was thinking he has a good chance to win this division. but Now with these cheaters, that chance has decreased a great deal.
These guys played in 4.5 league but not USTA. and they were very competitive and have beaten guys that play in USTA 4.5 leagues too. so that gives you good idea of level of these guys.

 

[gmatheis]

It doesn't affect me. I play in 4.5 division. but my best friend is captain of a 4.0 team. and he worked really hard during winter to get his guys ready for this summer season and was thinking he has a good chance to win this division. but Now with these cheaters, that chance has decreased a great deal.
These guys played in 4.5 league but not USTA. and they were very competitive and have beaten guys that play in USTA 4.5 leagues too. so that gives you good idea of level of these guys.

Actually that doesn't give anyone a good idea of anything, and would not be enough to prove anything in a grievance. At the very least you would have to show that their opponents were VALID 4.5's. Playing in a 4.5 league doesn't make you a 4.5, there are plenty of 4.0's(or less) that play up.

Also if it isn't even a USTA league the USTA may not consider that information relevant for a grievance.

It sounds to me like evidence of participation on a college team, or their junior tennis history would be your best bet.

 

[Nostradamus]

Actually that doesn't give anyone a good idea of anything, and would not be enough to prove anything in a grievance. At the very least you would have to show that their opponents were VALID 4.5's. Playing in a 4.5 league doesn't make you a 4.5, there are plenty of 4.0's(or less) that play up.

Also if it isn't even a USTA league the USTA may not consider that information relevant for a grievance.

It sounds to me like evidence of participation on a college team, or their junior tennis history would be your best bet.

well, these guys were playing against guys that play in USTA 4.5. and beating them. Scores are Online as this league also posts scores Online like USTA does.

 

[OrangePower]

It doesn't affect me. I play in 4.5 division. but my best friend is captain of a 4.0 team. and he worked really hard during winter to get his guys ready for this summer season and was thinking he has a good chance to win this division. but Now with these cheaters, that chance has decreased a great deal.
These guys played in 4.5 league but not USTA. and they were very competitive and have beaten guys that play in USTA 4.5 leagues too. so that gives you good idea of level of these guys.

If your friend and his teammates worked hard over the winter to improve their games, then they will be happy to have the chance to play some good players, no?

Or is he just upset that their sandbaggers are going to upstage his sandbaggers?

 

[goober]

well, these guys were playing against guys that play in USTA 4.5. and beating them. Scores are Online as this league also posts scores Online like USTA does.

Scores online from another nonUSTA league won't matter.They won't even consider it as proof of anything. I showed an LC that a guy won an open level usta tourney including beating multiple 4.5 and 5.0 players and he got a 4.0 ESR rating. I got a response from the LC that open tournaments results don't count.

The only thing you can get them on if they self rate and you can prove their college or high level junior experience. If you can't do that, all your friend can hope is that they get DQ'ed. But an experienced and unscrupulous captain will know how to keep their ratings down.

 

[tennis4josh]

This is so typical of some in-experienced captain making dumb decisions. We have a local league and USTA league. Not everyone knows of this local league since most of the USTA guys don't play in this. but the level 4.0 or 4.5 are about the same roughly. Now this new captain thinks he can self-rate these several guys that have been playing 4.5 level( Played College tennis too) in the local league and add them to his USTA 4.0 team and get away with it. :???:
He thinks now he can win the division and go to the playoffs and maybe the nationals. I play in this local league and USTA league both, so I can clearly see this is cheating. but these guys haven't played USTA league before so they are Self-rating to 4.0.
This really is bad because it give other teams in the division that was close to winning the division last year, NO chance to compete for the playoff spot. What kind of Blatant Cheating is this ?

If these players have no substantial experience (College tennis or top state level rankings in high school) you cannot accuse them of cheating. They can rate themselves at whatever level they please. USTA has computer algorithm in place to catch people who rate themselves lower.

-Josh

 

[Nostradamus]

If your friend and his teammates worked hard over the winter to improve their games, then they will be happy to have the chance to play some good players, no?

Or is he just upset that their sandbaggers are going to upstage his sandbaggers?

They worked hard thru drills and practices. they didn't improve so that they can play cheating sandbaggers. they improved so that they can have better results in their own division. That is what USTA is all about. That is fair good sportsmanship and spirit of USTA.
Not what these cheaters are doing by taking advantage of Self-rating system.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Nostradamus ... I find it hard to believe that you have made nearly 4000 posts on this forum and you are surprised by all of this.

The facts on USTA ....

1) It is a great organization for setting up competitive matches against people you may not already know.
This is true 90% of the time ... the other 10% are sandbaggers or folks trying to play up.

2) The rating system is both thier greatest strength and its weakness.

People want to know their rating, we obsess about it here. Then as soon as we know the rating we either want to improve it or play under it.

However this obsession with ratings drives people to do things like sandbag ... there is little you can do about it other than get better and hope the USTA catches them. Rest assured that your friend is not going to make it to Nationals without beating a few self rated sandbaggers along the way. It is unfortunate that he will have to play these sandbaggers locally.

I have gone to sectionals for the last three years and finished 2nd or 3rd each time. Every year we were the only team that did not have any self rated players ...

It is a sad fact that in order to win a USTA sectional or national event you will likeley need several self rated players playing out of level. At the very least you will have to beat them.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Make self rated players ineligible for post season and all of your problems will be solved.

 

[Bdarb]

What school did they play at? There are plenty of dIII schools who don't field a full line up of 4.5's. Some schools are lucky if the 3 singles and below are 4.0's...

 

[gmatheis]

Make self rated players ineligible for post season and all of your problems will be solved.

While that sounds good at first you run into 2 problems

1 - If self rated players are not allowed to play post season it will be harder for them to get a team since any team with championship aspirations would have no use for them.

2 - If you told me that I have wait until my 2nd year to even have a chance to go to states/sectionals/nationals I may never have started in the first place.

 

[Cindysphinx]

While that sounds good at first you run into 2 problems

1 - If self rated players are not allowed to play post season it will be harder for them to get a team since any team with championship aspirations would have no use for them.

2 - If you told me that I have wait until my 2nd year to even have a chance to go to states/sectionals/nationals I may never have started in the first place.

Self-rates would have to join bottom teams that don't have playoff aspirations. Or they could form their own teams and dominate but not advance.

I don't think most people who start playing league tennis do it because they are desperate to go to the post-season. Most new players are somewhat unsure of their level and are more interested in getting integrated onto a team. I can assure you that when I played my first USTA season, nationals was the farthest thing from my mind.

 

[goober]

Self-rates would have to join bottom teams that don't have playoff aspirations. Or they could form their own teams and dominate but not advance.

I don't think most people who start playing league tennis do it because they are desperate to go to the post-season. Most new players are somewhat unsure of their level and are more interested in getting integrated onto a team. I can assure you that when I played my first USTA season, nationals was the farthest thing from my mind.

^^^ pretty much this. I don't know any new players that join USTA leagues with the intent of going to nationals their first year. I only know captains that want self rated players to do so. Pretty much all new players I have met that have never played USTA are simply looking to play more tennis and maybe join a team. Most are blissfully unaware about sectionals/playoffs.

 

[gmatheis]

Self-rates would have to join bottom teams that don't have playoff aspirations. Or they could form their own teams and dominate but not advance.

I don't think most people who start playing league tennis do it because they are desperate to go to the post-season. Most new players are somewhat unsure of their level and are more interested in getting integrated onto a team. I can assure you that when I played my first USTA season, nationals was the farthest thing from my mind.

Actually what they would do is form their own team and sandbag for one season , now they are all computer rated and not subject to strikes and free to sandbag their way into Nationals with less to worry about than before(no more dynamic DQ).

 

[Cindysphinx]

Actually what they would do is form their own team and sandbag for one season , now they are all computer rated and not subject to strikes and free to sandbag their way into Nationals with less to worry about than before(no more dynamic DQ).

Maybe the true hard-core cheaters would do this. Sign up, pay money, throw games and matches, wait for November ratings -- all part of a devious plan to take over the tennis world and earn a pen and a hat.

Nah. Most sandbaggers do not have the patience to invest all of that time and energy.

Funny thing. I think USTA wouldn't lose a dollar of revenue by making this rule change. Sandbaggers would still sign up. Captains with playoff aspirations would just have to recruit top computer-related players -- which is as it should be.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Maybe the true hard-core cheaters would do this. Sign up, pay money, throw games and matches, wait for November ratings -- all part of a devious plan to take over the tennis world and earn a pen and a hat.

Nah. Most sandbaggers do not have the patience to invest all of that time and energy.

Funny thing. I think USTA wouldn't lose a dollar of revenue by making this rule change. Sandbaggers would still sign up. Captains with playoff aspirations would just have to recruit top computer-related players -- which is as it should be.

I agree .... the only time I have stepped off the court disheartened in a USTA match was in sectionals against self rated players. I have never felt outgunned against a rated opponent.

I wonder what that world would look like. New players picking teams at their correct level rather than being pressured to rate low for nefarious captains. Weak teams from the previous year taking on self rated players since they do not have playoff aspirations.

Clearly some new players would be lost ... the USTA simply would not have captains with the same motivation to recruit new talent. However, those captains would then be recruiting established players so I suspect the attrition rate would go down.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Actually what they would do is form their own team and sandbag for one season , now they are all computer rated and not subject to strikes and free to sandbag their way into Nationals with less to worry about than before(no more dynamic DQ).

I doubt it ... in my experience sandbagging is driven by the captains, not the sandbaggers. Take away the motvation to recruit sandbaggers and that problem disapears.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I agree .... the only time I have stepped off the court disheartened in a USTA match was in sectionals against self rated players. I have never felt outgunned against a rated opponent.

I wonder what that world would look like. New players picking teams at their correct level rather than being pressured to rate low for nefarious captains. Weak teams from the previous year taking on self rated players since they do not have playoff aspirations.

Clearly some new players would be lost ... the USTA simply would not have captains with the same motivation to recruit new talent. However, those captains would then be recruiting established players so I suspect the attrition rate would go down.

What a beautiful world it would be.

New players would wind up on non-competitive teams. They would make friends. They would have a tennis orbit.

The league would have better parity. The weaker teams would suddenly be a threat for an upset.

Maybe they would even stick with their tennis orbit even when more ambitious captains came a'callin'.

IME, at least 50% of players will not leave an existing tennis orbit to go to a more competitive team. Most ladies know that it won't be so easy to get back into the orbit once they leave.

 

[Orange]

If the players are truly 4.5-level players, it is quite possible that they will be DQed when playing in a 4.0 league.

I was relieved to see that a self rated true 3.5 was DQed in three matches when playing in both a 3.5 league and a 3.0 league. Her wins were 6-1,7-6 in 3.5 doubles, 6-0, 6-1 in 3.5 singles, and 6-0, 6-0, in 3.0 doubles. Sometimes the system works.

 

[g4driver]

If the USTA would cross reference their Juniors database with their Adult Database, the USTA could easily stop juniors who have sectional rankings from self-rating 3.5 /4.0 when they hit 18 years old.

The USTA doesn't care and that is why they don't address the issue.

 

[Nostradamus]

So what would be the best course of action for my buddie this summer ? League coordinator has told him that if captains file grievances against this team after matches have been played, he will address it. but then, I am not sure what the coordinator would actually do ?
can these self rated cheaters be DQ'ed midway thru the season ? I have seen this before, though I never really knew the reason why.

 

[OrangePower]

They worked hard thru drills and practices. they didn't improve so that they can play cheating sandbaggers. they improved so that they can have better results in their own division. That is what USTA is all about. That is fair good sportsmanship and spirit of USTA.
Not what these cheaters are doing by taking advantage of Self-rating system.

Don't you think your friends improved so that they could play higher-quality tennis?

Or do you really think their main motivation was so that they could get to nationals and be rec tennis GOATS? Because that would be sad.

USTA is about giving people competitive matches, not about going to nationals.

 

[OrangePower]

Make self rated players ineligible for post season and all of your problems will be solved.

That's the most logical thing to do. Ergo, it won't happen

 

[OrangePower]

So what would be the best course of action for my buddie this summer ? League coordinator has told him that if captains file grievances against this team after matches have been played, he will address it. but then, I am not sure what the coordinator would actually do ?
can these self rated cheaters be DQ'ed midway thru the season ? I have seen this before, though I never really knew the reason why.

If he can prove that these players lied on their self-rating questionnaire, then he can file a grievance.

Otherwise, just play the matches and let the computer do its job. If these players really did self-rate too low, they will get DQ'd during the season based on their results.

 

[andfor]

As part of the grievance the protester has to supply evidence. If they played college tennis that documentation can be found on archived college team websites and in the results section of the ITA website. It's not that hard find this and send it along with the protest.

 

[gmatheis]

So what would be the best course of action for my buddie this summer ? League coordinator has told him that if captains file grievances against this team after matches have been played, he will address it. but then, I am not sure what the coordinator would actually do ?
can these self rated cheaters be DQ'ed midway thru the season ? I have seen this before, though I never really knew the reason why.

If he has any actual evidence that they violated the experienced player guidelines when self rating (which is what the questions it asks you are based on) a grievance will be upheld.

If on the other hand all that he has is things like "I think they played some college tennis" , or "they played in this non-USTA 4.5 league and won" the grievance hasn't got a chance.

1 other thing he can do is instruct his players to tank matches against any self rated players ... get beat 0-6, 0-6 if they can ... this should generate a strike and they would need only 2 more strikes. If they get them it will reverse those losses. (this is all assuming that this isn't something that doesn't give strikes like combo doubles)

 

[gameboy]

Unless you can produce some real evidence that those players in question answered the self-rate questions wrongly, I see nothing here that says they are sandbagging. Improving yourself just to get to nationals is kinda sad anyway. If I am working hard to get better, that is because I want to play with better players (which is what these "sandbaggers" will provide) and play better tennis, not because I want some meaningless trophy.

 

[Nostradamus]

If he has any actual evidence that they violated the experienced player guidelines when self rating (which is what the questions it asks you are based on) a grievance will be upheld.

If on the other hand all that he has is things like "I think they played some college tennis" , or "they played in this non-USTA 4.5 league and won" the grievance hasn't got a chance.

1 other thing he can do is instruct his players to tank matches against any self rated players ... get beat 0-6, 0-6 if they can ... this should generate a strike and they would need only 2 more strikes. If they get them it will reverse those losses. (this is all assuming that this isn't something that doesn't give strikes like combo doubles)

so if a self rated player wins 3 matches in a row by score of 6-0 6-0 then he will be DQ'ed ?? what are the likelihood of that happening ? very small even for a Ringer, I think.

 

[gameboy]

so if a self rated player wins 3 matches in a row by score of 6-0 6-0 then he will be DQ'ed ?? what are the likelihood of that happening ? very small even for a Ringer, I think.

No, they just have to play better than expected for a 3.5 player. Players DQ all the time. It is not that rare.

 

[lostinamerica]

It is my observation, real sandbaggers win their matches 4&4 and lose bad inexplicably.

 

[Govnor]

USTA League tennis....

 

[asimple]

USTA is about giving people competitive matches, not about going to nationals.

Two of my 40+ teams went to districts over this last weekend (4.0 and 4.5). Due to scheduling and location I unfortunately couldn't play for both teams and ended up going with the 4.5 team for exactly this reason although I did play the last match on the 4.0 team when the 4.5 was out of contention. The 4.0 team had a much better chance of advancing, but I really was interested in competitive matches which I definitely got. I ended up winning one in a tiebreaker and losing the other in a tiebreaker. The last match I actually came back from being down a set and 0-5 in the second.

In terms of the original point of the thread though, I am a C rated player who improved over the off season as well, and am planning on improving this upcoming year as well as I am incredibly frustrated at some of the losses I have taken this year. While legally being within the rules, I am not sure that I am any less of a sand bagger than the self rated guys. As someone who is actively recruited for 4.0, I am not sure that the captain with the C rated players is any better. I will be really glad when I get bumped this year though as I really don't like 4.0 tennis. I'd stop now, but I made commitments to teams that I need to follow through with.

 

[OrangePower]

Two of my 40+ teams went to districts over this last weekend (4.0 and 4.5). Due to scheduling and location I unfortunately couldn't play for both teams and ended up going with the 4.5 team for exactly this reason although I did play the last match on the 4.0 team when the 4.5 was out of contention. The 4.0 team had a much better chance of advancing, but I really was interested in competitive matches which I definitely got. I ended up winning one in a tiebreaker and losing the other in a tiebreaker. The last match I actually came back from being down a set and 0-5 in the second.

In terms of the original point of the thread though, I am a C rated player who improved over the off season as well, and am planning on improving this upcoming year as well as I am incredibly frustrated at some of the losses I have taken this year. While legally being within the rules, I am not sure that I am any less of a sand bagger than the self rated guys. As someone who is actively recruited for 4.0, I am not sure that the captain with the C rated players is any better. I will be really glad when I get bumped this year though as I really don't like 4.0 tennis. I'd stop now, but I made commitments to teams that I need to follow through with.

You have the right attitude, and actually I think most players do. There's no real glory to be had here; most of us just want to play some good tennis. So most players once they get a good feel for where they really stand, will want to play at the level that best reflects their own level, no matter what their formal rating is.

I think most times when a player is sandbagging badly, it's really because the captain recruited them. And it's easier to get a self-rated player to sandbag I think because often they are truly unaware of where they really fit in, and so it's easier for the captain to get them to play at a lower level.

In my opinion the best strategy for dealing with sandbaggers is to just not stress out over it. Just show up for matches and play whoever is in front of you. People worry too much over making post season runs etc, instead of just enjoying the fact that league gives us a bunch of competitive matches to enjoy during the regular season. And isn't that what it should all be about anyway.

 

[J_R_B]

You have the right attitude, and actually I think most players do. There's no real glory to be had here; most of us just want to play some good tennis. So most players once they get a good feel for where they really stand, will want to play at the level that best reflects their own level, no matter what their formal rating is.

I think most times when a player is sandbagging badly, it's really because the captain recruited them. And it's easier to get a self-rated player to sandbag I think because often they are truly unaware of where they really fit in, and so it's easier for the captain to get them to play at a lower level.

In my opinion the best strategy for dealing with sandbaggers is to just not stress out over it. Just show up for matches and play whoever is in front of you. People worry too much over making post season runs etc, instead of just enjoying the fact that league gives us a bunch of competitive matches to enjoy during the regular season. And isn't that what it should all be about anyway.

I would gladly accept a bump. In fact, I've been actively trying for years. I've gone undefeated for whole seasons, played up a couple matches, and beaten players who've been bumped. Last year, I didn't have time to play up, but I went 14-2 at 4.0 with one 0 & 0 win, two 1 & 0, two 0 & 2 wins and only 2 three-setters in 14 wins, but still, no dice. C'est l'vie, I guess. I'm 4-0 with all straight set wins including a double bagel so far this year...

 

[sam_p]

I would gladly accept a bump. In fact, I've been actively trying for years. I've gone undefeated for whole seasons, played up a couple matches, and beaten players who've been bumped. Last year, I didn't have time to play up, but I went 14-2 at 4.0 with one 0 & 0 win, two 1 & 0, two 0 & 2 wins and only 2 three-setters in 14 wins, but still, no dice. C'est l'vie, I guess. I'm 4-0 with all straight set wins including a double bagel so far this year...

Do you play in a league where you end up playing lots of 3.5's playing up? If so, and your aren't beating them "badly" enough then it may be negatively affecting your dynamic rating.

Or, if you are playing doubles it can make a big difference how strong your partners are as well.

If you really are looking to get bumped up make sure you are efficient in your wins over weaker players and seek opportunities to play the strongest 4.0s and play up at 4.5 as well.

 

[asimple]

You have the right attitude, and actually I think most players do. There's no real glory to be had here; most of us just want to play some good tennis. So most players once they get a good feel for where they really stand, will want to play at the level that best reflects their own level, no matter what their formal rating is.

I think most times when a player is sandbagging badly, it's really because the captain recruited them. And it's easier to get a self-rated player to sandbag I think because often they are truly unaware of where they really fit in, and so it's easier for the captain to get them to play at a lower level.

In my opinion the best strategy for dealing with sandbaggers is to just not stress out over it. Just show up for matches and play whoever is in front of you. People worry too much over making post season runs etc, instead of just enjoying the fact that league gives us a bunch of competitive matches to enjoy during the regular season. And isn't that what it should all be about anyway.

I don't know, with my limited experience. it seems like there are quite a few people who take winning in the league far more seriously than improving their game or getting good matches. I am probably on the other extreme as I have been turning down matches against weak teams. I'd welcome playing a sandbagger to get a good match.

I have been really happy with the 40+ 4.5 league though as there are a lot of ex-competitive players in this league who just are looking for good matches. I've actually picked up quite a few hitting partners through this. Clearly people want to win, but a national championship does not seem to be the main driving force. The 4.0 league is another story though.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I don't know, with my limited experience. it seems like there are quite a few people who take winning in the league far more seriously than improving their game or getting good matches. I am probably on the other extreme as I have been turning down matches against weak teams. I'd welcome playing a sandbagger to get a good match.

Two things ...

1st) the win at all costs attitude seems to be highest at the 3.5 and 4.0 level (where 70% of league tennis players live). Lower levels, I do not find those players as passionate and they seem oblivious for the most part ... at 4.5 and above and the density of equally skilled players is less and they just want to find good matches.

2nd) the only players that really care are the ones with a shot to win their local league. Almost all players know before the season starts they are not playing for trophies.

 

[J_R_B]

Do you play in a league where you end up playing lots of 3.5's playing up? If so, and your aren't beating them "badly" enough then it may be negatively affecting your dynamic rating.

Or, if you are playing doubles it can make a big difference how strong your partners are as well.

If you really are looking to get bumped up make sure you are efficient in your wins over weaker players and seek opportunities to play the strongest 4.0s and play up at 4.5 as well.

I understand all of the math involved. I just go out and play and do what I can do. I only played one 3.5 last year (a 0 & 2 win), but my double bagel earlier this season was also against a 3.5. Last year, I played about 50/50 singles and doubles. This year, I've played only one singles match and 3 doubles just because I have too many singles specialists on my team, so someone has to learn how to play doubles. As far as partners go, I won with a 72 year old partner in 18+ yesterday who hasn't won a match playing with anyone except me for 3 years (dizzl knows who I'm talking about...).

 

[sam_p]

I understand all of the math involved. I just go out and play and do what I can do. I only played one 3.5 last year (a 0 & 2 win), but my double bagel earlier this season was also against a 3.5. Last year, I played about 50/50 singles and doubles. This year, I've played only one singles match and 3 doubles just because I have too many singles specialists on my team, so someone has to learn how to play doubles. As far as partners go, I won with a 72 year old partner in 18+ yesterday who hasn't won a match playing with anyone except me for 3 years (dizzl knows who I'm talking about...).

Well, I would say then that you are almost certainly gradually moving your way up to the border and will be bumped at some point. Remember that if you started at some point as a 3.5C (don't know your USTA history obviously) then you will have to move up from a dynamic rating of 3.5 to 3.99 before you will be bumped to 4.5 after crossing the 4.0 border. Depending on the mix of people you play this will take longer or shorter. This is why a quality showing at 4.5 makes a BIG difference.

 

[J_R_B]

Well, I would say then that you are almost certainly gradually moving your way up to the border and will be bumped at some point. Remember that if you started at some point as a 3.5C (don't know your USTA history obviously) then you will have to move up from a dynamic rating of 3.5 to 3.99 before you will be bumped to 4.5 after crossing the 4.0 border. Depending on the mix of people you play this will take longer or shorter. This is why a quality showing at 4.5 makes a BIG difference.

Self-rated at 4.0 in 2006. I have had at least a winning record every year except 2009, when tennis elbow limited me to only 6 matches against the toughest teams in the leagues I play in. I was undefeated in the regular season in 2006 (albeit in only 4 matches) but lost a district match. I was undefeated in 2008 at 4.0 but got crushed in a 4.5 match and didn't make districts. Furthermore, except for one loss last year, at least one partner of every opponent who has beaten me since 2009 has gotten rated up at year end themselves. I'm like the 4.0 Typhoid Mary.

 

[antq21]

J_R_B If you feel like you are a 4.5 then just play up. Find a captain to take you at 4.5.

 

[gmatheis]

Self-rated at 4.0 in 2006. I have had at least a winning record every year except 2009, when tennis elbow limited me to only 6 matches against the toughest teams in the leagues I play in. I was undefeated in the regular season in 2006 (albeit in only 4 matches) but lost a district match. I was undefeated in 2008 at 4.0 but got crushed in a 4.5 match and didn't make districts. Furthermore, except for one loss last year, at least one partner of every opponent who has beaten me since 2009 has gotten rated up at year end themselves. I'm like the 4.0 Typhoid Mary.

Yes please get out of the 4.0 pool because I'm 23-3 this season and I'm figuring that I'll get bumped I want to get any good 4.0's bumped to 4.5 so I never have to face them :shock:

 

[J_R_B]

J_R_B If you feel like you are a 4.5 then just play up. Find a captain to take you at 4.5.

I have thought about this, but I AM a captain of a 4.0 team, and I feel like I'd be letting my team down if I just abandoned them. They're a fantastic group of guys, and we're finally pretty good this year. My new plan this year is to put together a strong enough team to make nationals, and then we'll have to break it up, LOL. We're 3-0 so far, so we're still on track...

At some point, though, logic dictates that I can't keep doing this. My son is 9 and he's into travel soccer and my daughter is 7 and is in gymnastics, which will probably lead to competitions soon, and my time on weekends is dwindling (and obviously, my kids are more important than rec tennis). I could join a 4.5 team and be a sub and lose 3 matches a year and it would make a lot more sense for my family schedule. In fact, the 4.5 team at my club is 3-0 atop their division right now and have had to forfeit a court twice already. I could easily go out and take a bullet for them in those situations and still be on a winning team.

Also, I don't feel like a 4.5. I could compete with the lower teams that are made up of guys who probably should be 4.0s (and were before the big bump years), but I am nowhere close to competing with top 4.5s.

 

[Nostradamus]

I will recommend to my buddy that he also talk with other captains in his division. He is friendly with several other captains in 4.0 division. They won't appreciate what is happening with this cheater team. This new captain thinks he can get away with and take advantage of this self-rating system, he is in for rude awakening.

I am going to recommend to him that he talk with other captains and have them all file Grievance after the match with this team. USTA will most likely will take action.

 

[J_R_B]

I will recommend to my buddy that he also talk with other captains in his division. He is friendly with several other captains in 4.0 division. They won't appreciate what is happening with this cheater team. This new captain thinks he can get away with and take advantage of this self-rating system, he is in for rude awakening.

I am going to recommend to him that he talk with other captains and have them all file Grievance after the match with this team. USTA will most likely will take action.

That's fine, but it's not going to work if all you have is "but, they're too good". You'll have to research each of these guys, provide specific dates when they played college tennis or when they were ranked juniors or whatever, and crossreference that information with the self-rating guidelines to show that they are not rated correctly. The USTA self-rating grievance guidelines specifically state that grievances that are just whining about players being too good will be rejected.

 

[spinorama]

It's funny because you are mad that they are too good...aka you can't beat them, or WIN. So what if you DO beat them, then do you report them as being too good? No, you are happy because you won. It all boils down to how happy a person is winning vs losing. Most people love winning and hate losing, so they constantly are upset because if then win everything then they move up and start losing, or if they can't move up then its because they are losing....what a quandary.