Teen Phenom Zverev's Tennis Game has Parallels to Borg

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Walter Krumholz

New User
I was watching Zverev play Thiem today, and I had Flashbacks of Bjorn Borg. But In my opinion Borg was better at 19 than Zverev relative to their peers. The most striking similarities are: catlike movement, speed, consistency, prefer to stay in backcourt, prefer pace, excessive topspin with power both sides, Lanky, Long Blonde-Dirty Blonde Locks peering from under headband. Borg was mentally stronger, although lanky physically stronger, more consistent, more stoic-Ice Borg, more mature, more fit, more intense. Both prefer pace, don't like short balls or underpin drawing them toward net. Zverev 6'5" height makes it more difficult to get under short balls with his topspin strokes. He has trouble bending his knees on low balls; which Thiem and Nadal exploited. Zverev is not that confident at net. I once saw Borg play Ilie Nastase when Borg was 16 or 17, and Nastase beat him. Nastase complimented Borg with Comment "We're Playing Tennis, Borg is playing something else" Zverev's Serve rivals Boris Becker's serve, but Borg's serve was good in its own right. Borg Started playing Professionally at 17, and this was an advantage. He had more experience by the time he reached 19. I don't like the idea that Zverev is Coached by his Father; Too many Oedipal issues. Boris Becker offered to coach Zverev but Zverev demured complaining that he couldn't afford Boris Becker as traveling Coach. Perhaps Zverev feared antagonizing his Father. Castration Anxiety if he provokes his father? Zverev should cut the Umbilical Chord & Travel with Boris Becker, or select another Professional Coach to Steward or oversee his progress. I'm sure there are billionaire German Patriots or Endorsement companies willing to sponsor Zverev so he can afford Boris Becker or another Pro Coach of his choosing. Zverev is more adept at smashing his racquets when angered than Borg. Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future-Oscar Wilde. Does anyone know if Zverev has watched Films of Borg's Matches or idolizes Borgs Game. Maybe Bjorn Borg, should take Zverev under his wing and talk to Zverev about his pressures of Teen celebrity. Maybe Borg can give him some advice-not as a formal coach, but as a mentor
 
Walter Krumholz said:
I was watching Zverev play Thiem today, and I had Flashbacks of Bjorn Borg. But In my opinion Borg was better at 19 than Zverev relative to their peers. The most striking similarities are: catlike movement, speed, consistency, prefer to stay in backcourt, prefer pace, excessive topspin with power both sides, Lanky, Long Blonde-Dirty Blonde Locks peering from under headband. Borg was mentally stronger, although lanky physically stronger, more consistent, more stoic-Ice Borg, more mature, more fit, more intense. Both prefer pace, don't like short balls or underpin drawing them toward net. Zverev 6'5" height makes it more difficult to get under short balls with his topspin strokes. He has trouble bending his knees on low balls; which Thiem and Nadal exploited. Zverev is not that confident at net. I once saw Borg play Ilie Nastase when Borg was 16 or 17, and Nastase beat him. Nastase complimented Borg with Comment "We're Playing Tennis, Borg is playing something else" Zverev's Serve rivals Boris Becker's serve, but Borg's serve was good in its own right. Borg Started playing Professionally at 17, and this was an advantage. He had more experience by the time he reached 19. I don't like the idea that Zverev is Coached by his Father; Too many Oedipal issues. Boris Becker offered to coach Zverev but Zverev demured complaining that he couldn't afford Boris Becker as traveling Coach. Perhaps Zverev feared antagonizing his Father. Castration Anxiety if he provokes his father? Zverev should cut the Umbilical Chord & Travel with Boris Becker, or select another Professional Coach to Steward or oversee his progress. I'm sure there are billionaire German Patriots or Endorsement companies willing to sponsor Zverev so he can afford Boris Becker or another Pro Coach of his choosing. Zverev is more adept at smashing his racquets when angered than Borg. Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future-Oscar Wilde. Does anyone know if Zverev has watched Films of Borg's Matches or idolizes Borgs Game. Maybe Bjorn Borg, should take Zverev under his wing and talk to Zverev about his pressures of Teen celebrity. Maybe Borg can give him some advice-not as a formal coach, but as a mentor
Click to expand...
Wall of text with p*ss poor grammar (including random capitalization and no paragraphs)?

Nope, didn't read
 
Walter Krumholz said:
I don't like the idea that Zverev is Coached by his Father; Too many Oedipal issues. Boris Becker offered to coach Zverev but Zverev demured complaining that he couldn't afford Boris Becker as traveling Coach. Perhaps Zverev feared antagonizing his Father. Castration Anxiety if he provokes his father? Zverev should cut the Umbilical Chord & Travel with Boris Becker, or select another Professional Coach to Steward or oversee his progress.
Click to expand...

Not bad points but let's not forget that Zverev's dad was an actual pro player so he probably has quite a few things to teach him. His own brother should spend some time teaching him how to play more forward, IMO. Against Nadal at the AO it was clear that little Z. doesn't feel that comfortable coming to the net. Having said that, they just won a doubles tournament with Mischa so he's hopefully progressing on that front.
 
jussumman said:
I read it and it reads surprisingly easy. You totally miss out due to taking a grammar **** position. If this was in ALL CAPS then that's a deal breaker for me.
Click to expand...
You may have had a point if were just criticising minor mistakes. But no, the entire post is f**ked.

When it's obvious that they have put little to no effort into writing a presentable post, then I am not reading it.
 
Borg at 16 was superior to AZev in everyway even speed, esp FH and volleys.
Serve is a different story and a reason Azev has been so dominant so far.
Even peak Nadal could not chase down topspin lobs after like Borg did.
If you see footage of one contest vs Rod Laver at 5.30 even before that
you can see the speed of this guy that unlike Rafa he moved like fine silk
a combo of Fed and Rafa all in one.

This match is like an old Fed vs a young Rafa but on faster clay than RG
and equal wood sticks that dont favor western grips or Rafa like spin.
Borg was a beast, A Zev is a little faster Delpo with a better BH weaker FH
and weaker mental strength disguised in an era of pushery.
Delpo at the similar age beat peak Fed at USO and lost in 5 at RG that year
so will see how Azev goes at USO17 if he can challenge the best in 5

 
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racquetreligion said:
Borg at 16 was superior to AZev in everyway even speed, esp FH and volleys.
Serve is a different story and a reason Azev has been so dominant so far.
Even peak Nadal could not chase down topspin lobs after like Borg did.
If you see footage of one contest vs Rod Laver at 5.30 even before that
you can see the speed of this guy that unlike Rafa he moved like fine silk
a combo of Fed and Rafa all in one.

This match is like an old Fed vs a young Rafa but on faster clay than RG
and equal wood sticks that dont favor western grips or Rafa like spin.
Borg was a beast, A Zev is a little faster Delpo with a better BH weaker FH
and weaker mental strength disguised in an era of pushery.
Delpo at the similar age beat peak Fed at USO and lost in 5 at RG that year
so will see how Azev goes at USO17 if he can challenge the best in 5

Click to expand...
Delpo is a good metric, but they are quite different. Delpo's forehand is so much better its not even funny. Zverev may end up with the best two-handed backhand the game has seen. Delpo is an aggressive player while Zverev is much more defensive. We've really never seen a large player like Zverev. I'd say Safin is kind of the stats parallel with Zverev having hope of a better return game. Zverev has great mental strength, but I do like "disguised in an era of pushery". Zverev's strength is pushing himself to extend rallies longer which is no mean feat when you are 6' 6" tall.o_O

Don't see Zverev matching Delpo (which is a good metric) because he's got the build of a stick insect so not enough strength and stamina to pull that off. 2018 US Open might be possible, but I'd like to see him do a lot better on North American hard courts where his game was quite suspicious last year. Wimbledon and the French may end up being his best early slams.
 
Walter Krumholz said:
I was watching Zverev play Thiem today, and I had Flashbacks of Bjorn Borg. But In my opinion Borg was better at 19 than Zverev relative to their peers. The most striking similarities are: catlike movement, speed, consistency, prefer to stay in backcourt, prefer pace, excessive topspin with power both sides, Lanky, Long Blonde-Dirty Blonde Locks peering from under headband. Borg was mentally stronger, although lanky physically stronger, more consistent, more stoic-Ice Borg, more mature, more fit, more intense. Both prefer pace, don't like short balls or underpin drawing them toward net. Zverev 6'5" height makes it more difficult to get under short balls with his topspin strokes. He has trouble bending his knees on low balls; which Thiem and Nadal exploited. Zverev is not that confident at net. I once saw Borg play Ilie Nastase when Borg was 16 or 17, and Nastase beat him. Nastase complimented Borg with Comment "We're Playing Tennis, Borg is playing something else" Zverev's Serve rivals Boris Becker's serve, but Borg's serve was good in its own right. Borg Started playing Professionally at 17, and this was an advantage. He had more experience by the time he reached 19. I don't like the idea that Zverev is Coached by his Father; Too many Oedipal issues. Boris Becker offered to coach Zverev but Zverev demured complaining that he couldn't afford Boris Becker as traveling Coach. Perhaps Zverev feared antagonizing his Father. Castration Anxiety if he provokes his father? Zverev should cut the Umbilical Chord & Travel with Boris Becker, or select another Professional Coach to Steward or oversee his progress. I'm sure there are billionaire German Patriots or Endorsement companies willing to sponsor Zverev so he can afford Boris Becker or another Pro Coach of his choosing. Zverev is more adept at smashing his racquets when angered than Borg. Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future-Oscar Wilde. Does anyone know if Zverev has watched Films of Borg's Matches or idolizes Borgs Game. Maybe Bjorn Borg, should take Zverev under his wing and talk to Zverev about his pressures of Teen celebrity. Maybe Borg can give him some advice-not as a formal coach, but as a mentor
Click to expand...
Well I never thought of Bjorg and that is quite a fanciful comparison you make that was enjoyable to read. I disagree with a coaching change when things are going so well. Hopefully they will decide to add a Becker like coach in another year when Zed has more of a chance at slams.

Zverev is to me very much like a big version of Djokovic. They are very similar with similar weaknesses (net play). Zverev is slower than Djokovic, but has more reach for good first returns. Zverev has a bigger serve.

Zverev was a bit off today, so you didn't even see him at his best.:D
 
Its quite sad we are all looking for the future big thing thanks to the era of the pushery

It makes M Zevs win over Muzzler at the AO and Stepaneks almost win over Muzzler
round 1 of last RG clay both serve volleying on almost every point....so surreal

As for AZev and MZev their FHs are ironically their weaker sides however MZev
is also not flash on his BH side so even more crazy that he could beat the world No1
peak pusher by charging him with a slice BH and serve that was Wally Masur level.
 
Sabratha said:
Comparing this kid to Borg now ROFL.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I still don't see it. Borg had legendary fitness like an Olympic athlete. Also about 7 inches shorter. For this year still expecting Zverev's best surfaces to be clay and grass. Seems loosely a Soderling type who would not have his sub-Big4 footspeed as easily exposed on clay, but also took to grass like a duck to water last year.
d12fcefc1d57cf2f03cf8c4ccc429761
 
racquetreligion said:
As for AZev and MZev their FHs are ironically their weaker sides however MZev
is also not flash on his BH side so even more crazy that he could beat the world No1
peak pusher by charging him with a slice BH and serve that was Wally Masur level.
Click to expand...

Wally Masur level, hahaha!

Not to be underestimated though, Wally Masur; a very fine technician, very professional, studious, but lacking a killer instinct most of the time against big names.

The world number 1 Pusher/drill master was indeed thoroughly exposed by both Mischa as well as Radek...
 
racquetreligion said:
Borg at 16 was superior to AZev in everyway even speed, esp FH and volleys.
Serve is a different story and a reason Azev has been so dominant so far.
Even peak Nadal could not chase down topspin lobs after like Borg did.
If you see footage of one contest vs Rod Laver at 5.30 even before that
you can see the speed of this guy that unlike Rafa he moved like fine silk
a combo of Fed and Rafa all in one.

This match is like an old Fed vs a young Rafa but on faster clay than RG
and equal wood sticks that dont favor western grips or Rafa like spin.
Borg was a beast, A Zev is a little faster Delpo with a better BH weaker FH
and weaker mental strength disguised in an era of pushery.
Delpo at the similar age beat peak Fed at USO and lost in 5 at RG that year
so will see how Azev goes at USO17 if he can challenge the best in 5

Click to expand...

RE.: Borg speed

In that clip at 5:30 Borg covers about 14 metres in just under 2.5 seconds, 9 paces incl. slide, averaging a speed of 20km/h!! - considering he had to slide and change direction at the net, and slide at top speed to not run into the back boarding, this athletic feat is quite astonishing, running down a topspin lob like that.

McEnroe btw said a few years ago that Borg still was unsurpassed in terms of athletic ability. You can see from that insanely fast sprint why.
 
ANDYbhGENIUS said:
RE.: Borg speed

In that clip at 5:30 Borg covers about 14 metres in just under 2.5 seconds, 9 paces incl. slide, averaging a speed of 20km/h!! - considering he had to slide and change direction at the net, and slide at top speed to not run into the back boarding, this athletic feat is quite astonishing, running down a topspin lob like that.

McEnroe btw said a few years ago that Borg still was unsurpassed in terms of athletic ability. You can see from that insanely fast sprint why.
Click to expand...

hard not to admire Borgs athletic beauty and Im sure Edberg took more than a few pages from Borg vs Macca as inspiration
I miss the swedes in the top 10 also the swedish fans that are so entertaining yet respectful of their opponents

I see Azev having the same prowess in Slams to knock out one or 2 good players but often fall short managing a slam or 2 etc
even so far as to be like a modern Stich, Krajicek, kafelnikov and Korda hybrid but with unstable FH wing
 
Zverev can stand back on clay and not be punished for it due to his immense power off both wings. Plus the tour is very aged, especially the top players, so any young gun has a higher chance to do well on that surface.
 
There does seem to a generalization or a convenient generalization when it comes to branding players "Pushers". So with this logic David Ferrer is a pusher, so is Hewitt, Djokovic and even Monfils...lumping players into the Brad Gilbert category isn't something I agree with. What is the difference between a Counter-Puncher and a Pusher? What is visible is that serve and volley players do expose Counter-Punchers and Pushers, they always have done. I see the term Pusher as a negative or as an insult.

In tennis, a pusher is a defensive player who "pushes" back any shot they can chase down, without deliberately hitting a winner. They can angle shots, aim deep, as well as produce effective lobs. Pushers are extremely quick and consistent, rarely making errors. This style of play, similar to a "human backboard", often tires and frustrates more offensive opponents. They will try to win games by eliciting unforced errors from the opponent, i.e. by waiting for them to make the first mistake and losing the point. Pushers love to "dink" balls back with sidespin or backspin, placing their shots at disadvantageous locations for their opponents. The pusher's strategy also tends to involve a fair amount of psychological warfare.
 
Most totally would agree on your observations but the general consensus is we are tired of slow courts
and over extended baseline rallies with nothing but extended patience until the opponent wears out.

We are all human and will call out each other for different reasons but it is not lack of respect just
wanting to see more variety instead of homogenized conditions which favor baseline only tennis.

Other factors such as racquets and strings play a smaller role as witnessed with Muzzler vs MZed.
They both used virtually the same Head Pro Stock fiber with slight variations for individual preferences
and cosmetics but in reality the classic styled frame is the most prominent in majors.

In the mens game I only recal Nadal, Lendl, Becker and Wilander as the only Slam winners with
uniquely styled frames. Nadal the only one today with a 100% modern frame thanks to the conditions and balls.
I dont see anyone winning RG using S&V but it is a welcome breath of fresh air and hope the ATP continues
to look for ways to balance the conditions to suit all variety of players for the game to attract more numbers.

I dont see another youngster in todays selfie world becoming a consistent slam winner the world has changed
plnety in the last 10 years, kids are not motivated as before too many distractions

zombies.jpeg

cellphones-zombieapocalypse.jpg


Tennis is the most Focus demanding dynamic sport and the mobile phone is
responsible for a change in brain activity that is detrimental for it
 
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