Tell me we are not watching crap tennis

Biotic

Professional
Ferrer peaked in the wrong era.
Coincidentally, that's the same era that was 6-9 years back labeled as the weakest era ever by the same people that to this day show nothing else but genuine concern for the future of tennis.

Just how do they not get tired of this?
 

ChrisRF

Hall of Fame
Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.

Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.

Djoker has it as easy as it gets.

Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.
Well, "All Time Great" is an artificial category and people who care for it go only by numbers anyway. So since some day the Big 3 will retire and somebody has to win then, some of those weak Next Gen players will win 5 or 6 Slams and therefore become an ATG by default.

Also Tsitsipas really shouldn’t have been your hope to stop Djokovic.

Apart from that I agree though. It’s not a great era to watch right now. It will be better when Fedal return, but for how long?
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
There is a great comedy value in claims that Djokovic has/had it easy. If you take time machine and put Tonight's Tsistipas in 2005, the question is whether he would lose a match for the season; players playing then had obvious technical faults. Coric vs Tsitsipas was an extraordinary match; the level of play in this USO is incredible.
You have to rate tennis now against itself. No sane person is arguing that Novak is anything else but an obvious ATG. That's not the problem. He is either continuing to evolve (I actually believe that is so) or the others are just getting weaker, but the distance between him and the rest is almost absurd now. It's a lot like Nadal at RG. Or explain how Fed did what he did in 2017. If the top players are evolving or at least able to keep an amazing level as they age, where are the others?
 
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Nole_King

Professional
This is ridiculous.

Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.

Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.

Djoker has it as easy as it gets.

Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.

Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.

Tennis is in deep deep trouble.


Looking at the competition sometimes I feel that all that Andy needs is keep showing up in slams and with some luck he may end up winning one.

Imagine the havoc that @Mainad is going to create if that happens.
 

beard

Legend
This is ridiculous.

Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.

Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.

Djoker has it as easy as it gets.

Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.

Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.

Tennis is in deep deep trouble.

Fed fans in ruins... :-D
I hope Novak will have Chung in SF and Cilic in F....
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
You have to rate tennis now against itself. No sane person is arguing that Novak is anything else but an obvious ATG. That's not the problem. He is either continuing to evolve (I actually believe that is so), but the distance between him and the rest is almost absurd now. It's a lot like Nadal at RG. Or explain how Fed did what he did in 2017. If the top players are evolving or at least able to keep an amazing level as they age, where are the others?
Dear Gary, thank you for your comments.

In my opinion, Djokovic is dramatically improving; he never served better, sliced better, volleyed better, hitting overheads better; hitting forehand better. There is added layer of Federer's game in his game now; he looks like a next stage in game evolution. However, other players are doing the same thing as well. Thiem, Tsitsipas, RBA and other have attained incredible heights, and, for me, when I look their technique they are miles ahead of previous generations. This is also the reason why Djokovic have problems when playing with them (RBA, Thiem etc.; with current level he would annihilate previous fields). It is my honest opinion that the best Wimbledon version of Federer is the one in 2019. People say Djokovic played poorly, I say Federer made him to look like that.

Best wishes
 

beard

Legend
It really is a bit ridiculous how weak the NextGen are. Fed and Nadal have benefitted from it too, but it's almost 2021!! Come on guys, wake up! Literally no one has broken through the big 4 generation except Stan. At this rate Djokovic will be winning slams in 2027.
"Slay"



MN tm :-D
 

Standaa

G.O.A.T.
It really is a bit ridiculous how weak the NextGen are. Fed and Nadal have benefitted from it too, but it's almost 2021!! Come on guys, wake up! Literally no one has broken through the big 4 generation except Stan. At this rate Djokovic will be winning slams in 2027.
Stan didn’t really break through the Big 4. he got luck with draws, peaked for three slams and happens to be a tough match-up for Djokovic.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
The saddest part is, Djoker is visibly past his peak and yet he is still mopping the field.
Just hand him his fourth USO title already.
He's probably lacking in endurance as compared to some years back but his mindset is stronger than its ever been and he's still quick as a cat and lazer focused. Plus even 39 year old Federer would wipe out all these guys on Djoker's side of the draw. These are mostly just clowns and losers taking up space.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
This is ridiculous.

Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.

Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.

Djoker has it as easy as it gets.

Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.

Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.

Tennis is in deep deep trouble.

Fed fans: NOvak you can't just beat chumps like Fed early on and break His records

Djokovic: Huehue Slam count go brbrbr wheeh wheeh
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Coric is like 1 year older than Tsitsipas and honesty has had better slam results than Stefanos has.

Tsitsipas really has done nothing at the slams since that Aus Open SF. He’s like what Zverev was. Good at B03, **** at B05.
 

FreeBird

Legend
Fast grass matches had the best W-UE ratios but apparently it's disgusting servebotting, no? Not how it works pal...
That's why I wrote 'grueling rallies'..It was not some Raonic/Federer/Karlovic/Isner hitting aces or with 1-2 punches. Despite tlong rallies, the W/UE is positive (even excluding the aces for both).

Lets face it if Federer won it today like that, same people would be writing about high quality tennis at such an age. It would already be declared as the best match of 2020.
There will be euphoria all around.
Twitter will be full of video clips of those saved BP/MP (oh wait they already did it for Shanghai 2019 match against Zverev)
There would be people getting emotional about saved match points (oh wait they already did against Sandgren).

But hey, here we have two next gen players doing it who dont fit their agenda and thus the tennis played is 'crap'
 
This is ridiculous.

Tsits is supposed to be the next great? Yeah right.

Never want to hear how Fed had it easy.

Djoker has it as easy as it gets.

Trash tennis being played. No All Time Greats present except for Djoker.

Djoker is two or three tiers above what we are seeing.

Tennis is in deep deep trouble.

Wait For Super Meddy boy and Ultra Tiger Timmy to save the day
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Coric is like 1 year older than Tsitsipas and honesty has had better slam results than Stefanos has.

Tsitsipas really has done nothing at the slams since that Aus Open SF. He’s like what Zverev was. Good at B03, **** at B05.
Also we’ve got a pair of 21 year olds already in the 4R with Shapovalov and Davidovich Fokina. 23 year olds Zverev and Coric also in the 4R.
And in the bottom half there’s 24 year old Berrettini, Khachanov and Medvedev, 22 year olds Tiafoe and Rublev, 21 year olds Ruud, De Minaur, JJ Wolf and Moutet. And capping it all off is 20 year old Félix.
So of the 24 players left in the draw, 14 are 24 and under. That’s a lot better than past slams.
 

AceyMan

Semi-Pro
their peak level is crap too
They can play amazing tennis. Watch the FAA v Rublev 2020 Adelaide semi (if you have TChan access). What. a. match.

But, yeah, NextGen slugfests don't happen as often as when the GOATs are against each other (or whoever else is hot/Top 10 at the time).
 
That's why I wrote 'grueling rallies'..It was not some Raonic/Federer/Karlovic/Isner hitting aces or with 1-2 punches. Despite tlong rallies, the W/UE is positive (even excluding the aces for both).

Lets face it if Federer won it today like that, same people would be writing about high quality tennis at such an age. It would already be declared as the best match of 2020.
There will be euphoria all around.
Twitter will be full of video clips of those saved BP/MP (oh wait they already did it for Shanghai 2019 match against Zverev)
There would be people getting emotional about saved match points (oh wait they already did against Sandgren).

But hey, here we have two next gen players doing it who dont fit their agenda and thus the tennis played is 'crap'
Not that many rallies, fifth set skews it. Especially Tsitsipas service games saw lots of quick points.

Nah, don't care about gushing blindly. I'm a realistic pessimist about this stuff. Thought Fed's AO campaign was utter lulzworth with how they couldn't close an obviously iffy Federer out until Djokovic did it. Good on him to keep fighting at this age but I knew the prize would be getting blasted unceremoniously by fit Djoko and it was.

The match we're in this thread for was decent until Tsitsipas meltdown. Unacceptable number of errors from then on, including outright shanks and two DFs in the breaker. Some good shots as had to be, but mostly a mess.
 

McGradey

Semi-Pro
Djokovic isn’t being challenged hence why he looks so sharp, and he does look insanely sharp.

But he isn’t being tested.

Look how Struff rolled over in that last set. He couldn’t wait for it to be over.

The youngsters all reek of fear when they face Djokovic.

Without Federer and Nadal, only Medvedev, Thiem and RBA even look like they are up for the scrap when it comes to Djoker.

The rest are like origami; fold under pressure.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Lots of youth and depth of field in this Slam, I don't know what these people complain about.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Dear Gary, thank you for your comments.

In my opinion, Djokovic is dramatically improving; he never served better, sliced better, volleyed better, hitting overheads better; hitting forehand better. There is added layer of Federer's game in his game now; he looks like a next stage in game evolution. However, other players are doing the same thing as well. Thiem, Tsitsipas, RBA and other have attained incredible heights, and, for me, when I look their technique they are miles ahead of previous generations. This is also the reason why Djokovic have problems when playing with them (RBA, Thiem etc.; with current level he would annihilate previous fields). It is my honest opinion that the best Wimbledon version of Federer is the one in 2019. People say Djokovic played poorly, I say Federer made him to look like that.

Best wishes
I don't disagree. I watched some highlights tonight, and I saw a lot of Fed stuff, slice backhands, slice dinks. Other stuff. This is amazing evolution by the Big 3, because they are all looking to improve, never just coasting. I give credit to all of them, but let's credit Murray his amazing effort in the year he reached #1, and what Wawrinka did was equally amazing.

However, I think it's also fair to keep careful watch on the younger guys. Because if they only step up after the Big 3 are all over 35, which of course would make the others 36 and 41, then that just points out that there is a lag. Then we will never be able to say those who finally get slams are in that same category. When the Big 3 are that old they will start to lose just because they are all too old to win, or get injured. I think it's fair to ask why no one younger can step up even when you have the so called lost generation pushing 30.
 
Tennis will always produce good matches, but currently it doesn't produce the rivalries that make it great and which are the stuff of which consists the fiber of the ATGs. The next ATG should have been here around 2014. Anyone oblivious to that situation should know that he is bending backwards to avoid the reality.

:cool:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I didn't know that there was a train timetable for these things, but if you think an ATG should have arrived on Platform One in 2014 then I'll presume you've looked it up.

Tennis will always produce good matches, but currently it doesn't produce the rivalries that make it great and which are the stuff of which consists the fiber of the ATGs. The next ATG should have been here around 2014. Anyone oblivious to that situation should know that he is bending backwards to avoid the reality.

:cool:
 
There is a great comedy value in claims that Djokovic has/had it easy. If you take time machine and put Tonight's Tsistipas in 2005, the question is whether he would lose a match for the season; players playing then had obvious technical faults. Coric vs Tsitsipas was an extraordinary match; the level of play in this USO is incredible.
Err no professor, you're are being biased that it's funny.
Can you exactly provide me numbers which indicate Tsitsipas will not lose?

Let me start, Serve speed: Tsitsipas flirts from 120-140 mph range.

Nothing beyond Federer, Roddick,Safin and plethora of other players. Actually people like Roddick used to average higher that Tsitsipas.

Now,as per Cincy graphics, Tsitsipas FH RPM was in high 2000s. (Around 2900s)


Federer,Roddick,Nadal,Gonzolez even Ancic from that era has been clocked at higher averages at lower 3000s throughout a match and for Nadal and Federer mid to high 3000s. For Nadal against Mathieu in RG 2006, It was 3700s for a set.

Tsitsipas averages 78-85 mph on his strokes, which is something Blake, Safin,Roddick, occasionally Federer, e.t.c could easily do.(I will have to look up for graphics for this one but I think at one of YEC, probably 2007 they actively showed the average speeds)

Nadal,Federer,Gaudio,Coria,Hewitt defended better than Tsitsipas. (Not based on numbers but not debatable imo)

Federer, Nadal, Agassi,Hewitt returned better than Tsitsipas (higher RPW)

And as for mental clutchness, there were several better players.

This is off the top of my head.

Waiting for your numbers proffesor.
 
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ABCD

Hall of Fame
I don't disagree. I watched some highlights tonight, and I saw a lot of Fed stuff, slice backhands, slice dinks. Other stuff. This is amazing evolution by the Big 3, because they are all looking to improve, never just coasting. I give credit to all of them, but let's credit Murray his amazing effort in the year he reached #1, and what Wawrinka did was equally amazing.

However, I think it's also fair to keep careful watch on the younger guys. Because if they only step up after the Big 3 are all over 35, which of course would make the others 36 and 41, then that just points out that there is a lag. Then we will never be able to say those who finally get slams are in that same category. When the Big 3 are that old they will start to lose just because they are all too old to win, or get injured. I think it's fair to ask why no one younger can step up even when you have the so called lost generation pushing 30.
Dear Gary, I think that we largely agree, maybe we just view age scale differently. I believe that 30s are new 20s and that 40s will become new 30s in tennis. In my opinion, game is so complex now that time is required to fully develop.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Err no professor, you're are being biased that it's funny.
Can you exactly provide me numbers which indicate Tsitsipas will not lose?

Let me start, Serve speed: Tsitsipas flirts from 120-140 mph range.

Nothing beyond Federer, Roddick,Safin and plethora of other players. Actually people like Roddick used to average higher that Tsitsipas.

Now,as per Cincy graphics, Tsitsipas FH RPM was in high 2000s. (Around 2900s)


Federer,Roddick,Nadal,Gonzolez even Ancic from that era has been clocked at higher averages at lower 3000s throughout a match and for Nadal and Federer mid to high 3000s. For Nadal against Mathieu in RG 2006, It was 3700s for a set.

Tsitsipas averages 78-85 mph on his strokes, which is something Blake, Safin,Roddick, occasionally Federer, e.t.c could easily do.(I will have to look up for graphics for this one but I think at one of YEC, probably 2007 they actively showed the average speeds)

Nadal,Federer,Gaudio,Coria,Hewitt defended better than Tsitsipas. (Not based on numbers but not debatable imo)

Federer, Nadal, Agassi,Hewitt returned better than Tsitsipas (higher RPW)

And as for mental clutchness, there were several better players.

This is off the top of my head.

Waiting for your numbers proffesor.
Have a great day and life.

Best wishes
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Felix gives me hope, he can do what the others have failed to do - take the bull by the scruff of its neck and SLAM
 
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