Tell me we are not watching crap tennis

MeatTornado said:
This is quite a thread
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Apparently everyone has had enough of Imhotep :-D

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Lleytonstation said:
I guess your okay with third rate tennis?
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What you call third rate tennis has been present for three years or so already, with the exception of occasional flashes from the likes of Thiem, Zverev and Medvedev. Why is that a revelation now all of a sudden? Maybe it has something to do with Djokovic being in good form while Federer and Nadal didn't even attempt to stop him at this Slam? Because I am struggling to recall as much annoyance when those two were embarrassing the third rate field effortlessly not that long ago. Evaporated draws rarely happen to him so if he ends up vulturing this US Open all I could say is it's about damn time.
 
NoleFam said:
If RG is held, Nadal will be there and he doesn't care about records? Please.
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If he did, why would he skip a slam which he won 2 times in the last 3 years, and the only time he didn't win it was when he got the toughest possible draw? The competition this year is even weaker than it was when he won it in USO 2017, so don't tell me he didn't play because of strong competition.
 
Lleytonstation said:
You Djoker fans are fine with tennis in shambles as long as it gets you the record. Sad.
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And you will judge if tennis is in shambles or not? :-D

Fed fans:
"It's all old players in 4th round, tennis is in ruins"...
Next slam: "It's all young players in 4th round, tennis is in ruins"... :-D
 
NoleFam said:
Don't leave out the fact that Djokovic at 33, up to this point, is a better athlete than Federer at 33, and has declined less.
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How in the world do you determine that Djokovic is the “better athlete” than Fed? It’s utterly subjective and most would laughingly disagree. A better athlete than Fed would be able to hit overheads and volleys without issue.
 
StrongRule said:
If he did, why would he skip a slam which he won 2 times in the last 3 years, and the only time he didn't win it was when he got the toughest possible draw? The competition this year is even weaker than it was when he won it in USO 2017, so don't tell me he didn't play because of strong competition.
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He already said why. He doesn't want to switch so fast from hardcourt to clay and risk injury. How is the competition weaker than USO 2017? Lots of top players missed USO 2017, just like now really, and the participation rate is virtually the same. This year has a pandemic so what was 2017's excuse, yet you want to ignore that of course.
 
Used to be you had a slump, sophomore slump I think they call it, when you had your big breakout slam win. Nowadays, next gen have this slump after slam semis.
 
BeatlesFan said:
How in the world do you determine that Djokovic is the “better athlete” than Fed? It’s utterly subjective and most would laughingly disagree. A better athlete than Fed would be able to hit overheads and volleys without issue.
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Well most would already give him the edge over Federer in athleticism anyway, even at their prime/peaks, but Djokovic is more agile than Federer was at 33. He looks like he is hitting his overheads and volleys without issue here, if you actually watched his matches.
 
If you couldn't enjoy the Tsitsipas match, you're not a tennis fan. The moment a player expected to do well loses a match, someone's whining that the game is doomed. A tight five setter like that is fun to watch and has some real drama to it, what a sports fan should hope for. I've not been disappointed with the quality of play and though I haven't seen any stats, it seems like I'm seeing fewer double faults and bad errors, which I think is a consequence of having no crowd or crowd noise, so players can be a bit more focused as they play
 
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Federer and Nadal not there while Djokovic is - crap tennis in deep double. OP's avatar checks out.

Nobody should have expected better than this with no tennis played for nearly half a year before Cincinnati. Frankly Djokovic has played better than I thought he would. Medvedev has been alright too. And the matches like Tsitsipas Coric are why I'd rather still watch tennis than be repulsed by it.
 
mike danny said:
And his competition is far worse than Fed's at 33.

Still, one point and one set away and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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His competition is worse but not far worse.

But we are having the discussion because they didn't beat him. Almost doesn't count.
 
mike danny said:
And his competition is far worse than Fed's at 33.

Still, one point and one set away and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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I believe he's referring to athleticism. In terms of overall level of play, the two are still very, very close given Fed's shotmaking (and even bits of his footwork) was still great even as he got older. But Djokovic's athleticism hasn't declined the way Fed's has.
 
NoleFam said:
His competition is worse but not far worse.

But we are having the discussion because they didn't beat him. Almost doesn't count.
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Djokovic nearly lost to a 38 year old Fed and to Thiem. Maybe he has declined less, but he has definitely declined enough. Him edging out some matches that he should have lost doesn't change that.

And yes, his competition is much worse. Federer at 33 having prime Djokovic already gives him the nod convincingly.
 
Third Serve said:
I believe he's referring to athleticism. In terms of overall level of play, the two are still very, very close given Fed's shotmaking (and even bits of his footwork) was still great even as he got older. But Djokovic's athleticism hasn't declined the way Fed's has.
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I guess that's fair.
 
ollinger said:
If you couldn't enjoy the Tsitsipas match, you're not a tennis fan. The moment a player expected to do well loses a match, someone's whining that the game is doomed. A tight five setter like that is fun to watch and has some real drama to it, what a sports fan should hope for. I've not been disappointed with the quality of play and though I haven't seen any stats, it seems like I'm seeing fewer double faults and bad errors, which I think is a consequence of having no crowd or crowd noise, so players can be a bit more focused as they play
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Agree. Not going to lie, I'm devastated at the result of the Tsitsipas match and still in something of a state of shock but it was very entertaining to watch.

I've fixated on the Tsitsipas meltdown, as many have here, and in the process we've definitely not given Coric credit for his part in turning the match. The court speed and balance was something else, and in several key moments of the match he showcased some pretty serious chops at net. Combined with his rock solid baseline game that net attack proved to be quite an effective strategy.

Many of these younger players are coming off almost no serious match practice in six months, while also coming to the realization that this US Open is most likely the best chance they have ever had to win a major. We are given the thrill of watching these guys deal with that moment and in some cases (Tsitsipas) completely unravelling in the heat of battle.
 
mike danny said:
Djokovic nearly lost to a 38 year old Fed and to Thiem. Maybe he has declined less, but he has definitely declined enough. Him edging out some matches that he should have lost doesn't change that.

And yes, his competition is much worse. Federer at 33 having prime Djokovic already gives him the nod convincingly.
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Yea when he himself was 32 years old and played his worst match of the tournament. Your sentence needs a little context. Still, he prevailed. He has declined enough? Where? He played two Slam finals where he played his worst matches of the tournament, struggled a bit but won them both.

Well I guess it evens out when Federer himself had no young ATG from 2003-2007 to worry about on hardcourt of any kind, and had none on grass for quite a few of those years as well.
 
NoleFam said:
He already said why. He doesn't want to switch so fast from hardcourt to clay and risk injury. How is the competition weaker than USO 2017? Lots of top players missed USO 2017, just like now really, and the participation rate is virtually the same. This year has a pandemic so what was 2017's excuse, yet you want to ignore that of course.
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It's not only about how many players are missing, but also about what is the level of the players who are actually playing. In 2017-2019 the young players had some very good performances at least in BO3. This year they are so bad that we have Raonic reaching a masters final. And Tsitsipas choking like this against a player like Coric is a new low. :rolleyes:
 
Well, you should expect the greatest player of all time (I’m not a fan but it’s time to just admit it) to be pretty tough to beat. If Thiem is feeling strong, we’ll see. Maybe his ex-girlfriend’s fling with Benoit has added a little fire to his belly. Just pretend Djoker is Benoit with a smug look on his face.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea when he himself was 32 years old and played his worst match of the tournament. Your sentence needs a little context. Still, he prevailed. He has declined enough? Where? He played two Slam finals where he played his worst matches of the tournament, struggled a bit but won them both.

Well I guess it evens out when Federer himself had no young ATG from 2003-2007 to worry about on hardcourt of any kind, and had none on grass for quite a few of those years as well.
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If Fed played like Djokovic in his last 2 slam finals against Djokodal, he would have been sent home packing in 4. Djokovic going on walkabouts for 2 sets and still winning doesn't speak well of his opponents.

Fed did have Djokovic in 2007 and Nadal on clay and grass in 2006-2007. That's more in 2 years than Djokovic in the last 6 years and he was only 25-26. And his own contemporaries and Agassi were much better in 2004-2005 than the guys today.
 
StrongRule said:
It's not only about how many players are missing, but also about what is the level of the players who are actually playing. In 2017-2019 the young players had some very good performances at least in BO3. This year they are so bad that we have Raonic reaching a masters final. And Tsitsipas choking like this against a player like Coric is a new low. :rolleyes:
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What good performances at the USO though which is what you brought up? We haven't had tennis this year because of the pandemic and you are talking this year they are so bad? We haven't even had tennis in 6 months! 2017 was a snooze fest on almost every level.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea when he himself was 32 years old and played his worst match of the tournament. Your sentence needs a little context. Still, he prevailed. He has declined enough? Where? He played two Slam finals where he played his worst matches of the tournament, struggled a bit but won them both.

Well I guess it evens out when Federer himself had no young ATG from 2003-2007 to worry about on hardcourt of any kind, and had none on grass for quite a few of those years as well.
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He was 32 and his final opponent was 38, not a younger ATG. So that was enough to get by.
 
chrisb said:
I love this If one or 2 guys dominate its because of weak field, If no one dominates tennis is in decline. Maybe we have an plethora of really good players. And if so so be it. Enjoy the fact that matches are competitive instead of constantly deriding the current players might be nice to hear. They play pretty well, and most work really hard
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X to Doubt
 
mike danny said:
If Fed played like Djokovic in his last 2 slam finals against Djokodal, he would have been sent home packing in 4. Djokovic going on walkabouts for 2 sets and still winning doesn't speak well of his opponents.

Fed did have Djokovic in 2007 and Nadal on clay and grass in 2006-2007. That's more in 2 years than Djokovic in the last 6 years and he was only 25-26. And his own contemporaries and Agassi were much better in 2004-2005 than the guys today.
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Well Federer himself is to blame that he couldn't win a match on his serve from 2 championship points up. You can't rag on Djokovic's competition and say.."if Federer played...". He did play, the match was on his racket and he lost. That was on him because of his mental fragility in that situation.
 
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NoleFam said:
Well Federer himself is to blame that he couldn't win a match on his serve from 2 championship points up. You can't rag on Djokovic's competition and say.."if Federer played...". He did play, the match was on his racket and he lost. That was on him because if his mental fragility in that situation.
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That's true. But I am a bit salty Fed at 38 had to pull off the impossible while Djokodal don't have anywhere near the same difficulty at their current ages.

And besides, Fed being 38 impacted him a lot the rest of the match, not at 40-15.
 
mike danny said:
That's true. But I am a bit salty Fed at 38 had to pull off the impossible while Djokodal don't have anywhere near the same difficulty at their current ages.

And besides, Fed being 38 impacted him a lot the rest of the match, not at 40-15.
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Any Federer fan complaining about competition has a lot of nerve. Your guy got 3 Slams in 2017 and 2018 thanks to the level of competition, on top of having free reign at an early age without any ATGs of his generation.
 
ForehandCross said:
Can you exactly provide me numbers which indicate Tsitsipas will not lose?

Let me start, Serve speed: Tsitsipas flirts from 120-140 mph range.

Nothing beyond Federer, Roddick,Safin and plethora of other players. Actually people like Roddick used to average higher that Tsitsipas.

[...]

Federer, Nadal, Agassi,Hewitt returned better than Tsitsipas (higher RPW)
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Why are you using RPW as a barometer for the return, but then turn around and use serve speed to measure serve efficiency?
 
NoleFam said:
Any Federer fan complaining about competition has a lot of nerve. Your guy got 3 Slams in 2017 and 2018 thanks to the level of competition, on top of having free reign at an early age without any ATGs of his generation.
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Your guy had Anderson, Del Potro and Thiem for three of his slam wins in the past 2 years. If that's not "free reign" without any ATG's across the net, I don't know what is.
 
NoleFam said:
Any Federer fan complaining about competition has a lot of nerve. Your guy got 3 Slams in 2017 and 2018 thanks to the level of competition, on top of having free reign at an early age without any ATGs of his generation.
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No, that's some of the Djokovic fans always making fun of Fed's competition and when Djokovic suddenly started having it easy they become defensive.

It's only 2 slams since 2017. AO 2017 was as tough of a slam as any.

Fed's early reign lasted only 3 years anyway. Djokovic's has lasted for 6 years and counting.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Your guy had Anderson, Del Potro and Thiem for three of his slam wins in the past 2 years. If that's not "free reign" without any ATG's across the net, I don't know what is.
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My guy went through two GOATS to reign over the game for 6 years, fell off with injury where they feasted on weak players for 6 consecutive Slams while he struggled, then he came back from the ashes and took over again. Anybody saying anything about Djokovic competition cannot genuinely be serious. You left out the part where he played Nadal in the SF in 5 sets before playing Anderson.
 
mike danny said:
No, that's some of the Djokovic fans always making fun of Fed's competition and when Djokovic suddenly started having it easy they become defensive.

It's only 2 slams since 2017. AO 2017 was as tough of a slam as any.

Fed's early reign lasted only 3 years anyway. Djokovic's has lasted for 6 years and counting.
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How do you figure that since he wasn't dominant in 2014 while he was barely even a factor from mid 2016 to mid 2018? :D
 
BeatlesFan said:
Your guy had Anderson, Del Potro and Thiem for three of his slam wins in the past 2 years. If that's not "free reign" without any ATG's across the net, I don't know what is.
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You really don't want to go down that road of how many times each of them won Slams against fellow ATGs lol.
 
TheAssassin said:
What you call third rate tennis has been present for three years or so already, with the exception of occasional flashes from the likes of Thiem, Zverev and Medvedev. Why is that a revelation now all of a sudden? Maybe it has something to do with Djokovic being in good form while Federer and Nadal didn't even attempt to stop him at this Slam? Because I am struggling to recall as much annoyance when those two were embarrassing the third rate field effortlessly not that long ago. Evaporated draws rarely happen to him so if he ends up vulturing this US Open all I could say is it's about damn time.
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Forget Djoker. Always has to be about Djoker?

Look at the sport of tennis. How is this good?
 
beard said:
And you will judge if tennis is in shambles or not? :-D

Fed fans:
"It's all old players in 4th round, tennis is in ruins"...
Next slam: "It's all young players in 4th round, tennis is in ruins"... :-D
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You do realize pretty much everyone agrees that tennis is in a bad shape right?

You are an outlier if you don't think so.
 
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