Tennis Channel - The 100 GOAT : 1, Roger Federer. 2, Rod Laver. 5, Pete Sampras.

Top Jimmy

Semi-Pro
The comments and pure blind love of todays players is comical.

Jimmy Connors played through 3 generations of players and was effective against all, which makes it funny that people think the players from as little as 5-10 years ago couldn't hang with Federer, Nadal, Novak, and Murray. Your current hero's aren't these unbeatable players like you imagine.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
10 – Billie Jean King, F, USA

9 – Chris Evert, F, USA

8 – Margaret Court, F, AUS

7 – Bjorn Borg, M, SWE

6 – Rafael Nadal, M, ESP

5 – Pete Sampras, M, USA

4 – Martina Navratilova, F, USA/CZE

3 – Steffi Graf, F, GER

2 – Rod Laver, M, AUS

1 – Roger Federer, M, SUI



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This is evidently a load of rubbish. Sampras has no clay titles and Laver has no h/c titles apart fro a couple of small ones from S.Africa and h/c is supposed to be the be-all and end-tall of tennis.

It's looking more and more embarrassing calling Roger the GOAT.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
This is evidently a load of rubbish. Sampras has no clay titles and Laver has no h/c titles apart fro a couple of small ones from S.Africa and h/c is supposed to be the be-all and end-tall of tennis.

It's looking more and more embarrassing calling Roger the GOAT.

Only smaller tournaments were played on HC in Laver's time. Laver still won 20+ titles on HC.

and sampras has 3 clay titles, including one at Rome.

what is embarrassing is you sprouting off things without knowing much at all ...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
This is evidently a load of rubbish. Sampras has no clay titles and Laver has no h/c titles apart fro a couple of small ones from S.Africa and h/c is supposed to be the be-all and end-tall of tennis.

It's looking more and more embarrassing calling Roger the GOAT.

Why don't you come up with your own top 10 list for each the men and the women. And while your at it, go to the former pro talk forum and tell the old-timers how you feel about Laver.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Only smaller tournaments were played on HC in Laver's time. Laver still won 20+ titles on HC.

and sampras has 3 clay titles, including one at Rome.

what is embarrassing is you sprouting off things without knowing much at all ...

I thought that only slams counted towards the GOAT?
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I thought that only slams counted towards the GOAT?

No, total slam count alone isn't the only metric, but it's the most important one.

However your perspective isn't as bad as the one poster who believe the CYGS is the be-all and end-all debate.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Why don't you come up with your own top 10 list for each the men and the women. And while your at it, go to the former pro talk forum and tell the old-timers how you feel about Laver.

Laver's career is split between his amateur and pro days and tennis was not as accessible as it is now. Travelling was more difficult so most players did not participate in all the tournaments.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
No, total slam count alone isn't the only metric, but it's the most important one.

However your perspective isn't as bad as the one poster who believe the CYGS is the be-all and end-all debate.

In that case, why is Nadal's all time M1000 record being ignored?
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
In that case, why is Nadal's all time M1000 record being ignored?

It's not being ignored. One of the criteria from the tennis channel includes

-Performance at ATP/WTA events

that covers all the tournaments including MS.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
The criteria for the GOAT is being tailored to suit one player so it should not be taken seriously. With just one clay slam out of a possible 14 and being owned by another player, how could Roger be called the GOAT with a straight face?
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
It's not being ignored. One of the criteria from the tennis channel includes

-Performance at ATP/WTA events

that covers all the tournaments including MS.

In that case, how do they award points for each genre? Bearing in mind that there are no easy rounds in M1000s as they have to beat the top 55 players or so, I think it should be given a lot of points.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
The criteria for the GOAT is being tailored to suit one player so it should not be taken seriously. With just one clay slam out of a possible 14 and being owned by another player, how could Roger be called the GOAT with a straight face?

This is where you are wrong. You need to watch those 4 episodes from the tennis channel. Their set of criteria use to evaluate a players are fair and balance.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
And Federer above Graf!

Graf beats Federer in nearly every category :confused:
CYGGS (1) 1988
Majors won (22) in 31 finals
Titles (107)
Weeks at #1 (377)
8x YE #1
2x Fed Cup titles
Dominating rivals
Winning every major at least 4x (7x Wimbledon)
Career matches played (1017)
Career matches won (902)
Overall winning percentage at 902-115 (89%)
10 years in her career with over 90% winning percentage
Longevity (won at least 1 major for 10 consecutive years)

Someone give me one good reason why Federer is above Graf on this list? :?

Wow. I didn't know all these stats, but since so many use total number of majors I couldn't think of one reason why Federer would be over Graf. This post proves the total joke TTC's list is.

This post is a total slam dunk and trumps any argument that can be made that TTC's "list" is not improbable, but laughable as well.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed was declared the GOAT before they thought of the criteria. Now they are trying to cut the GOAT coat according to Roger's cloth.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
This is where you are wrong. You need to watch those 4 episodes from the tennis channel. Their set of criteria use to evaluate a players are fair and balance.

I don't live in America so have no access to the TC.

Anyway anyone can chose criteria that suits them.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
I don't know if we should disclose personal information about each other, even if we think it's true. That's a scary thought. I'll stick with ThunderVolley for my own comfort level.

Its not personal information or factual to any degree. He's flaming out of the inability to silence the truth: Federer is no GOAT.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Wow. I didn't know all these stats, but since so many use total number of majors I couldn't think of one reason why Federer would be over Graf. This post proves the total joke TTC's list is.

This post is a total slam dunk and trumps any argument that can be made that TTC's "list" is not improbable, but laughable as well.

TTC is pure fluff--like a tennis channel designed by Dinsey Channel for very young fans who need puffed-up packaging, bells and whistles, no matter how unrealistic.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Wow. I didn't know all these stats, but since so many use total number of majors I couldn't think of one reason why Federer would be over Graf. This post proves the total joke TTC's list is.

This post is a total slam dunk and trumps any argument that can be made that TTC's "list" is not improbable, but laughable as well.

Graf's achievements trump Federer's in nearly every category. I'd like to hear the rationale for placing Federer over Graf.
 

RF20Lennon

Legend
Graf's achievements trump Federer's in nearly every category. I'd like to hear the rationale for placing Federer over Graf.

Probably because Fed has a bigger fan base otherwise graf has way more accomplishments but then again I dont think you can compare men and women.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Probably because Fed has a bigger fan base otherwise graf has way more accomplishments but then again I dont think you can compare men and women.

Sure you can. You compare their stats relative to their gender.

Graf was way more dominant over the field and had no 'matchup' issues with other elite players. She has no losing H2H against any #1-#5 player beside Jo Durie and Wendy Turnbull, whom she played when she was very young. Her only other losing H2H against any top 10 player was Patty Schnyder, where she was 0-1 (not large enough sample size to determine).
 
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The whole list is garbage. Federer over Laver and Graf, yeah right. Nadal's placing of 4th highest man is fine for 2 years ago when it came out, would be too low if it were now but since he probably would be higher now I will overlook that. Worst of all is Gonzales as only 22nd highest man and Vines only 64th highest overall. Way too low for both. No list that has Emerson way above Gonzales or even Vines has any credability at all.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Any male or female who wins a calendar year GS should be higher than any other player who has not. Therefore, Laver and Graf should be #1 and #2.

Between those two, it is actually very close based on their monumental achievements. Laver won 2 in two different eras but no Golden Grand Slam because he could not as tennis was not part of the OG back then.

Graf's 1988 GGS was a feat that will most likely never be repeated. She won all titles on the modern surfaces plus that year's OG medal. Just amazing.
 
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I think Graf has to be put 1st, even over Laver who is top man. Had she chosen to play until 35 she would have broken all the records. She retired while still dominating the game at barely 30. She would have gone on to smash Court's record of 24 majors, Navratilova's 9 Wimbledons would be broken too, Evert's 7 French Opens would be broken, had she kept playing as long as Serena. It was due to her impending marriage with Agassi she stopped earlier than planned.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Graf's achievements trump Federer's in nearly every category. I'd like to hear the rationale for placing Federer over Graf.

There is no rationale for it--other than serving a dual purpose: in the recent past, certain members were all for calling players (ex. Sharapova) "all time greats" (no gender noted) when they won the media-created "personal slam," but when it was not enough to be lifted up to true GOAT status (like Graf and others), certain members then took to blasting women's tennis as inferior--the fallback to sexism. In other words, if their "dream girl" could not be the best, then "damn it all, women's tennis sucks LOLZ" which maintains their hate for superior players like Graf--truly a GOAT--is trashed.

In comes the second half: in supressing Graf (and others) in the overall consideration of tennis, the worst of his fanbase has to reduce the "enemies list," so with no Graf, they can aim their self-decieving sights on Laver, et al. subjecting him to childlike spin jobs, erasing of history, etc., all to find some (easily dismissed) meas of placing a (ultimately tinfoil) crown on Federer's head.

In the end, they are content to keep at least one of their fantasies alive, but as we now see, they are in every thread--in full defensive scamble mode, trying to keep the "Federer=GOAT" fantasy off of the life support which is shut down...switch after switch...
 
There is no rationale for it--other than serving a dual purpose: in the recent past, certain members were all for calling players (ex. Sharapova) "all time greats" (no gender noted) when they won the media-created "personal slam," but when it was not enough to be lifted up to true GOAT status (like Graf and others), certain members then took to blasting women's tennis as inferior--the fallback to sexism. In other words, if their "dream girl" could not be the best, then "damn it all, women's tennis sucks LOLZ" which maintains their hate for superior players like Graf--truly a GOAT--is trashed.

In comes the second half: in supressing Graf (and others) in the overall consideration of tennis, the worst of his fanbase has to reduce the "enemies list," so with no Graf, they can aim their self-decieving sights on Laver, et al. subjecting him to childlike spin jobs, erasing of history, etc., all to find some (easily dismissed) meas of placing a (ultimately tinfoil) crown on Federer's head.

In the end, they are content to keep at least one of their fantasies alive, but as we now see, they are in every thread--in full defensive scamble mode, trying to keep the "Federer=GOAT" fantasy off of the life support which is shut down...switch after switch...


I find the mens GOAT debates these days are Laver vs Nadal, and womens is Graf vs Serena. Federer I dont notice talked about any as possible GOAT these days, except on this forum it seems. It seems only like a small little fantasy just for this place, is that so?
 
I find the mens GOAT debates these days are Laver vs Nadal, and womens is Graf vs Serena. Federer I dont notice talked about any as possible GOAT these days, except on this forum it seems. It seems only like a small little fantasy just for this place, is that so?

That show was made like a year or two ago .

Feds only a "paper goat" . People have now come to realize that he is not the best.

Nadal is actually winning polls here at TW!
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Graf's achievements trump Federer's in nearly every category. I'd like to hear the rationale for placing Federer over Graf.

It was already explained before that men's sport are much harder to achieved than women's sport. The skill/physical demand/mental capacity required more, and playing in a 5 set format is another league above than a 3 set format.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Mac overrated as usual with Lendl underrated as usual.

It could be American bias.

If there's any bias about the Tennis Channel, it's US players that gets more credit than they deserve. European players have to achieved significantly better in order to rank above them.
 

Graf1stClass

Professional
It was already explained before that men's sport are much harder to achieved than women's sport. The skill/physical demand/mental capacity required more, and playing in a 5 set format is another league above than a 3 set format.

yep, that's why Steffi was so healthy throughout most of her career, unlike federer.


....oh wait.
 

ripitup

Banned
Does anyone have an actual list of the people who contributed in the Tennis Channel rankings. For all we know it might be something like this:

Jon Wertheim
Mary Carillo
Mark Petchey
Peter Bodo
Mike Lupica
Andrew Castle

Either way Gonzales being 20 spots behind Emerson already ruins any credability of the list. That is simply not excusable. Is there anyone who can remotedly justify putting Emerson over Gonzales at all, let alone that far?
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Federer I dont notice talked about any as possible GOAT these days, except on this forum it seems. It seems only like a small little fantasy just for this place, is that so?

Largely. Sure, there a few Fed-centric boards where the same lies, spin-jobs and delusion exist, but they are as isolated...as disturbing in cult-like partisanship as the Federer Fringe here.

The legitimate, objective tennis fans and commentators know Federer is no GOAT.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
TTC is pure fluff--like a tennis channel designed by Dinsey Channel for very young fans who need puffed-up packaging, bells and whistles, no matter how unrealistic.

I know. I watch the matches on there, but I don't care for shows that are made up of sound bites, where there's never any real depth, and in the end they don't tell you anything interesting of note.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Graf's achievements trump Federer's in nearly every category. I'd like to hear the rationale for placing Federer over Graf.

I don't think there's any rationale. It makes no sense that Graf would have all of these accomplishments and still be treated like a second class citizen. TTC should be both ashamed and embarrassed for broadcasting such a ridiculous list.
 

Clarky21

Banned
I know. I watch the matches on there, but I don't care for shows that are made up of sound bites, where there's never any real depth, and in the end they don't tell you anything interesting of note.

This is so true. I don't watch anything on that channel except for the matches, and even then I wish I could watch it with no commentators. Same thing with ESPN.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
That poster which Phoenix1983 pointed out is one of the worst offender on this forum and yet you only call out Phoenix1983. Bias much?

You need to quit. I am a huge fan of TV. That should be obvious to any long time poster here.

I'm a fan of yours too. I admire your resiliency :).
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
This is so true. I don't watch anything on that channel except for the matches, and even then I wish I could watch it with no commentators. Same thing with ESPN.

Me too. Worst commentators ever. I do like Courier and Davenport, but that's about it. Don't like even one of ESPN commentators. Ugh!
 
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