RF20Lennon
Legend
When I said CAN I meant future tense. Nadal CAN be the GOAT if he does xyz but as of now Fed is still GOAT.
Tennis Channel - The 100 GOAT : 1, Roger Federer. 2, Rod Laver. 5, Pete Sampras.
- Thread starter tennissportsrog
- Start date
When I said CAN I meant future tense. Nadal CAN be the GOAT if he does xyz but as of now Fed is still GOAT.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
By now, it should be clear that few are holding on to that notion.
At this point I think the top 4 are:
1. Laver
2. Nadal
3. Gonzales
4. Federer
Nadal is now chasing Laver to become the new GOAT, a title Laver has held ever since 1969.
uncooling
Semi-Pro
tennissportsrog
Rookie
Very funny joke
Just inexplicable
Just inexplicable choices here. Ashe ahead of Newcombe? Why? Many others like that. Emerson ahead of Lendl?
Just inexplicable choices here. Ashe ahead of Newcombe? Why? Many others like that. Emerson ahead of Lendl?
Nadal has just entered the top tier only this year. He isn't ahead of Gonzales or Federer. Got some way to go yet. I'd put Nadal around 7th. In terms of being year end number 1 or co-number 1.....Nadal has 3 year end number 1's (almost certain he will be in 2013) - doesn't compare to 5 years for Federer, 6 years for Sampras, 7 years for Laver, 7 years for Tilden, 8 years for Gonzales, 6 years for Rosewall. He is around Borg's level currently (more slams but less surface variety).
Top tier is (in no particular order):
Federer, Laver, Rosewall, Sampras, Gonzales, Tilden, Borg, Nadal
Borg and Nadal are the bottom 2 of that top 8 of all time. (Not sure of the order of the other 6 above them). I am sure Nadal will move up before he retires....how far remains to be seen. By the time Nadal retires he will probably move further up the list - remains to be seen how far though.
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Tennis Fanatic 070
Banned
I wanted to reply to this that anyone who posts rubbish like this should be banned...and then I noticed this poster is already banned...LOL
The Dark Knight
Legend
Personally I think he is #1.
He has done more at 27 than Fed has at 27 in that Nadal has Olympics and Davis cup.
But he has also dominated Federer.
I can see why someone picks Fed over Nadal.....but I also see why Nadal is chosen over Fed.
It's too close to decide ....the battle is still unfolding and there will be no definitive answer until they are done.
RF20Lennon
Legend
He has done a lot more but why should age 27 be a measuring stick? Shouldnt we be looking at overall career's?
If Federer isn't the GOAT why is having a superior H2H over Federer make you the GOAT?
I think the evidence is pretty strong that Nadal is about 7th at the moment. Can't see any reasoning that would put him higher than that. He just doesn't have the time at the top to justify a number 1 or number 2 ranking.
Re. 27 years old. Don't know why you keep saying that. It just isn't true. 13 Slams + Olympics (Davis Cup is a team sport so not included in singles position) is not greater than 15 slams + 4 WTF's.
He's one of the big Fed hater, but he's back with another user account. Hope he will reply to your post.
ROFL !
TDK put Nadal at #1.
Well, that's what you would expected for someone who believe 13 >17.
A year and a half later, how do you think the top 4 now fit into this list?
I think you can put Murray (previously not in this list) at least above #63 (Hewitt). Djokovic probably fits in at least at #25 (above Edberg). Nadal and Federer I believe shouldn't move, but soon Nadal will move up a spot or two.
I think you can put Murray (previously not in this list) at least above #63 (Hewitt). Djokovic probably fits in at least at #25 (above Edberg). Nadal and Federer I believe shouldn't move, but soon Nadal will move up a spot or two.
tennissportsrog
Rookie
****** is GOAT
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Not yet, dear Rafan. Your guy is still 4 slams behind Roger Federer. Let him win more slams before calling him the GOAT.
Okay I will put things on the line (well mostly)
My current list is:
First equal - Federer / Laver
Third - Gonzales
Fourth - Tilden
Fifth equal - Rosewall / Sampras
Seventh - Nadal
Eighth - Borg
I think that is the complete first tier. You can mention other players being great, but no-one outside this list of eight is in the discussion of being the very best of all time. (Budge is close though)
My current list is:
First equal - Federer / Laver
Third - Gonzales
Fourth - Tilden
Fifth equal - Rosewall / Sampras
Seventh - Nadal
Eighth - Borg
I think that is the complete first tier. You can mention other players being great, but no-one outside this list of eight is in the discussion of being the very best of all time. (Budge is close though)
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Good list, but why is Nadal ranked 7? Why not 16?
You believe those great players have nothing over Nadal or they have no argument to be place above him?
There are experts don't have Rosewall in the top 10 and some fans disagree.
There's no perfect list that will satisfy every fans, you can only ask yourself if that certain player deserve an argument base on his career achievement.
Until the north american Hard court season this year, I had Nadal at tier 2... But his getting to 26 Masters 1000's was just too great a feat to deny.
Not sure if you were being sarcastic about Nadal at 7th or not.
If you weren't well I think 13 slams + 26 Masters 1000s justify a ranking as high as seventh.
If you were being sarcastic...well look st the people i have above him. Can you honestly say he has achieved more than them....maybe sampras...but he is only just above Nadal. All of the players above were far more dominant and much longer at number 1 than Nadal. So no, he doesn't deserve a higher ranking than 7 at the moment. Not sure what reasoning would put him higher.
tennissportsrog
Rookie
tennissportsrog
Rookie
Nadal believes previous tennis eras cannot match the excitement generated by the current stars of the sport
"Sampras v Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five.aspx
excuse arrogant selfish ego cheat.
"Sampras v Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five.aspx
excuse arrogant selfish ego cheat.
gabybackhand
Banned
You have no way of knowing that for sure. Given that Nadal was already number 4 on the list even then, there is a very good shot they would rate him atleast number 2 now.
Serena would be at worst number 3 now, but she might be put even higher. After all many experts are already calling her the GOAT.
Remember people are very biased to current players, the same reason Federer is number 1, so it is foolish to say it is certain Nadal or Serena wouldn't be any higher at this moment than they were.
Federer fans would be in an awful position if Nadal was put either 2nd or 1st in the new Tennis Channel list whenever it comes out. Even his being 2nd and leaving Federer 1st would be too much for them to bear, so they would start attacking the lists credability. When it was what they clung onto in order to show Federer was supposably the GOAT to begin with; despite the obvious flaws of the list others pointed out. What a huge dilemma that would leave them in!
Serena would be at worst number 3 now, but she might be put even higher. After all many experts are already calling her the GOAT.
Remember people are very biased to current players, the same reason Federer is number 1, so it is foolish to say it is certain Nadal or Serena wouldn't be any higher at this moment than they were.
Federer fans would be in an awful position if Nadal was put either 2nd or 1st in the new Tennis Channel list whenever it comes out. Even his being 2nd and leaving Federer 1st would be too much for them to bear, so they would start attacking the lists credability. When it was what they clung onto in order to show Federer was supposably the GOAT to begin with; despite the obvious flaws of the list others pointed out. What a huge dilemma that would leave them in!
I don't believe experts have put Nadal ahead of Laver so he's still out of the top 2.
Evert, Court and King fans have something to say about Serena being ahead of them.
If there's any bias by the Tennis Channel that would be toward the American players. They put Mac and Connors ahead of Lendl, and Venus ahead of Henin. European players get slighted.
Evert, Court and King fans have something to say about Serena being ahead of them.
If there's any bias by the Tennis Channel that would be toward the American players. They put Mac and Connors ahead of Lendl, and Venus ahead of Henin. European players get slighted.
chicagodude
Hall of Fame
I actually agree with you on this. In fact, if anyone could be considered the greatest tennis player of all time, Navratilova has my vote.
I assume this list was for singles players? Otherwise, you can hardly deny the dominance of Navratilova across the board + her longevity at the top.
gabybackhand
Banned
If you think Serena would be behind King, the underrated Court, and Mrs. I am now publicly declaring over and over how much better Serena is than me, than you are crazy. If Tennis Channel had a new list Serena would be atleast 3rd, and you know it. She might even be higher, you don't know for sure. Current players are overrated, the only reason Federer is number 1 too.
As for Nadal still being behind Laver, you don't know that either. Nadal, like Federer, is now being hyped to the heavens by experts, past players, writers, broadcasters in an attempt to market the game. Given that these are the kind of people who made up the list, it is quite possible he would be placed over Laver now. Probably not deservedly, than again Federer wasn't deservedly either.
Venus deserves to be over Henin. Both have 7 slams, but Venus has way more longevity, much higher peak level of play, dominated the sports most prestigious event which Henin couldn't win even once, and has an amazing doubles career while Henin has none. Doubles doesn't matter if there is a big singles gap, but that clearly isn't the case here. Other than time at number 1, what edges does Henin have.
McEnroe should not be over Lendl, but Connors easily could be.
Their worst ranking of all was against an American player. Pancho Gonales, who is clearly top 5 all time atleast for men, was dumped to a lowly number 22 for men, while Roy Emerson who isn't half the player he is was put at 11, a whole 11 spots above him. Incredible.
^
Your opinion is not fact. I can understand some fans rate Serena that high, but you can't say Evert, King and Court aren't in conversation for the #2 spot.
Federer > Nadal, and that's not even a debate until next 5 years. Between Laver and Nadal, I believe most fans have Laver ahead. Some old timers in here even have Nadal as low as #7 of all time.
Henin more dominant, more balance resume than Venus. Same with Lendl has over Mac. Yet, The Tennis Channel have American players above them.
Your opinion is not fact. I can understand some fans rate Serena that high, but you can't say Evert, King and Court aren't in conversation for the #2 spot.
Federer > Nadal, and that's not even a debate until next 5 years. Between Laver and Nadal, I believe most fans have Laver ahead. Some old timers in here even have Nadal as low as #7 of all time.
Henin more dominant, more balance resume than Venus. Same with Lendl has over Mac. Yet, The Tennis Channel have American players above them.
tennissportsrog
Rookie
This was 2012.
i think this list is just an approach to the goat topic and cannot be edged in stone.
it has strengths and weaknesses.
in my opinion it is a total shame what they did to pancho and lendl!
but i can accept certain things if there are reasons for it. certainly you can rank mac higher than lendl (im not sure) - when you take into account that mac was also a very very dominant doubles player and a better davis cup player.
i have more problems with the end of the list chang, muster, noah all ranked over stich? the man has a wimbledon singles title plus wtf, reached final or sf at any slam! certainly chang, muster and noah seem to be more spectacular but i dont think they were greater tennis players
it has strengths and weaknesses.
in my opinion it is a total shame what they did to pancho and lendl!
but i can accept certain things if there are reasons for it. certainly you can rank mac higher than lendl (im not sure) - when you take into account that mac was also a very very dominant doubles player and a better davis cup player.
i have more problems with the end of the list chang, muster, noah all ranked over stich? the man has a wimbledon singles title plus wtf, reached final or sf at any slam! certainly chang, muster and noah seem to be more spectacular but i dont think they were greater tennis players
tennissportsrog
Rookie
Mats Wilander said on insidetennis.com, "You have to say that the era when he (Federer) played was the worst of all time."
Mats Wilander in worst 33 by history.
lol
Mats Wilander in worst 33 by history.
lol
andymaratkimi
Rookie
It's not so easy to campare players from differernt era.
W
Wim
Guest
Rafa got 3 more GS since then.
He has prob climbed Sampras on that list.
If he gets AO.... He will climb solo high.
He has prob climbed Sampras on that list.
If he gets AO.... He will climb solo high.
tennissportsrog
Rookie
tennissportsrog
Rookie
They should set US open to perfect indoor GS.
mattosgrant
Banned
It is interesting to wonder what the rankings would be now. I suspect Nadal would either be ranked 2nd or 3rd. Personally I dont think he deserves to be that high. I would rank him 5th behind Laver (who I rate 1st), Federer, Gonzales, Sampras. Due to recency bias though I expect they would rank him 2nd or 3rd though.
Serena would probably be ranked as the top women, again partly due to recency bias. There is no way she would be ranked only lower than 2nd behind Graf by the group I am pretty sure.
Serena would probably be ranked as the top women, again partly due to recency bias. There is no way she would be ranked only lower than 2nd behind Graf by the group I am pretty sure.